UUBD Format Discussion Thread

[Monky25]

Hello UU community, the UU tournament planning team is formally announcing that UU will be having its UU Blind Draft (UUBD) tournament this summer season, with manager + player signups coming out on June 17. While the tour format is mostly figured out, there are two discussion points we’d like to hear the community’s input on:

The first topic is figuring out the last slot. Currently there are 11/12 set slots for UUBD: SV 1-3, SS, SM, ORAS, BW, DPP, ADV, GSC, and RBY. None of these slots are open to be changed, meaning yes, RBY is locked in to appear in this tour and we will have a minimum of 3 SV slots. This comes to deciding what the last slot could be, which has come down to SV4, UUbers, or Bo3 as the tiers that have actual consideration. Last snake, we had SV4 which turned out to be a fine addition for most people, but there have been concerns about a lower quality of games that may happen in this additional slot, not to mention the other two slots could add more exciting variance to the tour. UUbers was a tier selected in UUFPL and was received fairly well by the UU players who partook in UUFPL, offering new people chances to get involved with the mainline UU community while showcasing a relatively new tier that can draw players in. On the other hand, there are legitimate concerns about it being too soon for UUbers to be featured in a more mainstream and competitive UU tour with many involved in the UU community still just not being too familiar with UUbers as a whole. Lastly, there’s Bo3, which while being the hype series of the week and would have extra games of SV, SS, and SM all being played, there’s also the potential for a burden to be put on teams as a whole with even more prep having to be dedicated to one slot that might not make an enjoyable experience building compared to watching. Overall, there are pros and cons to each of the 3 options, so we’d like to know which the community prefers the most to be included in UUBD.

The second topic is UUBL retests in old gens. These have been a hot topic for a few years now and we want to open UUBD to also have retests run during this tour should the playerbase of lower tiers desire it. The 3 tiers that have pretty much dominated the discussion are SS UU, ADV UU, and GSC UU.

SS UU has been having a lot of talks about revisiting UUBL lately, with Thundurus-I being the main topic to potentially reintroduce into UU. While its Speed gets the jump over significant Pokémon like Nihilego, Cobalion, and Zarude, which could still be problematic these days, it’s also quite weaker and SS UU is a pretty bulky tier and the natural defensive options available can arguably keep Thundurus-I in line to where its a strong alternative to its Therian counterpart but nothing too insane. Its higher natural Speed could also prove helpful to building as a whole, with few Pokemon having the natural Speed over Cobalion and other threats in that range, so to many there’s enough merit to potentially evaluate whether reintroducing Thundurus-I into UU during UUBD to be a worthwhile endeavor to undergo. Other Pokémon like Latias, Aegislash, Gengar, Terrakion, and Galarian Zapdos have all received mentions one way or another about being readded to UU as well by several individuals, even if not as prevalent as the discussion around Thundurus-I, but in the eyes of the tournament planning team we want to open the floor for discussion on any Pokemon in SS UUBL to see what could happen. As such, it’s worth starting a dialogue about what changes should be tested out this tour to potentially see whether the tier could be changed for the better. Tagging notable SS UU players that come to mind (sorry if I forget anyone) to share your thoughts Attribute Lyssa Lily umbry spell Micciu kumiko KSt3ve Askov vivalospride Taka Liz Angeles

ADV UU recently underwent a retest of 10 different Pokemon in UUFPL to many mixed reactions, so there's room to further discuss whether or not any of the Pokémon retested in UUFPL have enough controversy to continue being evaluated in the ADV metagame. A common idea thrown around was the combination of Weezing + Donphan + Armaldo + Kadabra all being tested together as the lesser extreme UUBLs that could be retested in UUBD, but it comes down to the input on the ADV community of whether there’s a need to pursue any more changes for ADV or if the tier is fine to keep as is for the foreseeable future. Tagging notable ADV players who played in UUPL and UUFPL and just know the tier (sorry if I forgot anyone) to share their thoughts BigFatMantis Heysup fatty Xrn LpZ Parpar shiloh LBN innovamania Mossy Sandwich Bouff TyCarter Chaos23333 ojr Killintime Garay oak Melt Gibson EllingtonReborn

GSC UU recently unbanned Aerodactyl and Muk, but still there have been talks about more UUBLs like Venusaur and Typhlosion potentially being worth retesting into UU. Not many are really knowledgeable about this so this should be left to the professionals on what to do. Tagging notable GSC players (sorry if I forgot anyone) to share their thoughts dawnbuster Estarossa innovamania pp's splash town BeeOrSomething cheru corvere Torchic MrSoup BigFatMantis Real FV13 SANKE CARP Lialiabeast

Note that discussion isn’t limited to just the three above tiers or the specific Pokémon mentioned; It's just that we’ve noticed that these are the common topics running around and wanted to create a space to discuss these topics in advance before UUBD starts so we have an idea of what will be going down this tour. We are looking forward to reading your posts!

 

[Bouff]

the adv meta is fine as is imo, none of these mons will add anything positive to the tier and will only constrain a tier thats already pretty tight in the builder. i get that this is a less srs tour than uupl but still i think having a good tier should be our end goal and none of these mons will help with that.

 

[Amity]

I think ADV should not be doing any testing for this tour, we have not yet settled on any kind of consensus on what to do with the retiering project post-Lapras and from what I know, UUFPL had the drops for fun and not as much for precedent. It shows that Kadabra is relatively overshadowed with more drops but I would hope ideally the focus is more towards UU's current state. Kadabra itself has seen demand after last UUFPL judging by the most recent survey so if the format should be ADV UU + Kadabra I would be content. Otherwise if there is opposition to UUBL drops I think we should stick with vanilla as it would be nice to have more vanilla ADV UU tours besides UUPL and ADVPL, none of the drops really add anything positive and I felt this a lot during this UUFPL when I was helping LpZ and DiannieRatson. We have done testing far too long and Lapras is already getting pushback from a couple players.

My final verdict is no drops at all, or if there are drops only Kadabra.

 

[pp's splash town]

GSC UU recently unbanned Aerodactyl and Muk, but still there have been talks about more UUBLs like Venusaur and Typhlosion potentially being worth retesting into UU. Not many are really knowledgeable about this so this should be left to the professionals on what to do. Tagging notable GSC players (sorry if I forgot anyone) to share their thoughts dawnbuster Estarossa innovamania pp's splash town BeeOrSomething cheru corvere Torchic MrSoup BigFatMantis Real FV13 SANKE CARP Lialiabeast

I've played some games with Venusaur and it's pretty abysmal both offensively and defensively. Don't see any harm in unbanning it, but I think it would literally add nothing to the tier. Outclassed entirely by the other grass types which aren't amazing to begin with (remember it doesn't have stun spore, sludge bomb, or earthquake). Typh has seen some support in theorymon, but I have never played tests with it so I really can't comment on how it fit into the tier. I don't think it would be a bad addition, but I'm working off of assumption rather than evidence here. If only 1 is going to be tested, let it be typh. I don't really think the tier needs any additions rn, but I don't think there's harm in testing either. I would vote to have these guys tested if it came to it. It should also be noted that I probably won't be participating in this tour since I think it overlaps with GSCPL and that's the tour I care more about if I'm going to sign for anything at all this year.

 

[Lizzie]

Just gonna give thoughts on all mentioned uubl mons in ss:
Thund-I: I'm fairly certain this wouldn't be broken and having a viable mon in its speed range does bring positives to the tier, my main concern is that it might not be splashable enough to really make a difference, and its far harder to account for its speed in the builder than it is to account for thund-t imo. Ultimately fine with testing it and probably the most likely thing to have support.
Latias: I don't think this would be broken and would have a similar set of positives to thund-i while being way more splashable, however I think I'm in a minority on this. Would support testing it but idt it makes sense atm and it might never make sense.
Aegislash: Aegislash invalidates way too many mons in the tier and shouldn't be seriously considered.
Gengar: tbh idk how broken this would be but it has some weird dynamics, ultimately weird to theorymon but idk what positives it brings and would only consider freeing it in some sort mass drop scenario.
Terrakion: fighting/rock/bug coverage is incredibly strong and we already have issues with cobas dynamics to an extent, would only entertain freeing it in some sort of mass drop scenario.
Gapdos: p laughable suggestion imo, ss as a tier is not fast paced enough to account for this trading favourably into so much of the meta and sets like cb are pretty justifiable given speed tiers here, this is without mentioning the most splashable fighting resist having intimidate. Shouldn't be freed under any circumstances.

Think we should also consider sleep ban, idt spore amoong is its best set but it gives it some weird dynamics and I think the tier improves a bit by banning sleep and doesn't really lose anything, just a relatively minor quality of life change imo.

 

[TyCarter]

Only mon that should be seriously given any consideration is like Kadabra in ADV UU if the playerbase really wanted to test anything. Armaldo lol no. Weezing and donphan is not a pandora's box you want to open. But freeing Kadabra would also alter a lot of adv uu building in general so I do not think that's a route the playerbase wants. However the uufpl from a year ago where kadabra and lapras were tested, kadabra seemed more like a builder threat than an in game threat fwiw although idk if the playerbase really wants to spam more hypno. But to be frank, the tier is fine as it is.

So either test Kadabra or just let the tier be.

As for the last slot in UUBD, I think SV4 is perfectly fine but you'd be just be doing the UUSD format though which there is nothing rlly wrong with that. UUbers is probably ok if the support for it is there although it seemed a little bit isolated as a slot at times in uufpl but "isolated" slots is nothing new in team tours. Bo3 should be dependent on the demand for a bo3 slot but probably not the most desired slot imo.

UUbers=SV4>= Bo3

 

[BeeOrSomething]

I don't fully expect to participate in this but I'll say my piece too. I mostly agree with pp's splash town. Venusaur is quite useless (outclassed by Bellossom) and Typhlosion just feels weird to look at immediately after doing two suspects, even if it might be less broken than other BLs. Nobody has really done any proper test games with it either. I would prefer no drops, though I wouldn't mind a BP or Scyther ban.

 

[spell]

i liked 4sv in snake so i want this tour to be the exact same tiers as that tour. uubers is too new to be considered imo + not our tier anyway so i don’t know if we should add it when historically we’ve never added things like national dex to our tours. i think sv4/bo3 are the ones i’d be fine with but i dont rlly like bo3 all that much and pool drought wasnt that big of an issue in snake because we had cases like apple who were panic subbed in and are now decently established in the community. we should highlight current gen as much as possible and i think sv4 is a real good way of doing that

as for ss i dont know why i was mentioned since i dont play it but i think everything is kind of degenerate - maybe thund is ok

 

[katerina]

gsc uu is fine as it is currently. like it's been said already by bee and pp, both venusaur and typh dont add much to the tier. I wouldn't mind having them in uu but I don't care too much as they are quite underwhelming. if there is a change that "needs" (or that the playerbase wants to, rather) to be done would be banning baton pass. I think gsc uu would feel better without the threat of stuff like meditate or curse mr mime breaking the game. other than that I don't think there's action to be made.

 

[Estarossa]

would support a latias test in ss, been a big proponent of doing it since before the gen ended. had my concerns with thundy-i for a while where i already consider thundy-t a net negative to the tier in practicality but one that ends up not being broken or anything because of speed tier and opportunity cost and shit etc but is still like never exactly a welcome addition and just don't see why thundy-i inclusion would actually improve anything in any way shape or form when its removing one of the main issues and still being about as unpunishable and annoying, arguements for it never seem to actually account for why including it would actually improve the tier at all imo. Latias is definitely somewhat controversial but imo adds stuff that would help improve the tier in general between its speed typing utilitie and offensive options etc and is handled fine by what in the tier honestly despite concerns

leave gsc alone, or a potential scyther ban test sure. venu is not a particularly good mon as stated (altho not like completely 100% outclassed it does have some verry small niches due to the speed tier and bulk increases) but all prior testing has shown that its not actually a net positive to the tier to introduce it and its just an annoyance whenever its used that makes games stallier, we shouldn't be dropping things into the tier just because they aren't broken but should be doing it with a goal to actually improve things by doing it. the initial intention of aero muk was that this would be the final drops done in this tier and we wouldn't mess around with testing more and more stuff after and imo that is an intention that should be stuck to, if we wish to explore full bp bans or a scyther ban that would be different but no more drops tbh.

 

[ojr]

I think the UUFPL ADV UU is great. Ill go over all the bans that are unbanned;

woo adv uu has cool pkmns

I think I havent even seen a single armaldo all tour that guy is really underwhelming and should be freed.
Swellow is a weird case, its really strong but the fact that the UUFPL format allows for Regirock keeps it massively in check. I can understand if there is a more hands off approach on this mon in a non regirock format.
Zangoose is in a similar boat to swellow imo so i wont eloborate that much.
Donphan i like a lot that its freed, its offensively a bit scary for the tier but if u also free Weezing which you totally should, it should be fine to keep in the tier, having extra spinners in a spikes centric meta is always great.
Regirock was at first to me very polarising when i first started playing but the more the season of UUFPL progressed i came to realise he is not that bad for the tier especially in combination with the other unbans i.e. venusaur and donphan. This mon is v important to unban to me as it makes the whole tier feel correct.
Scizor was also a yikes! at first. Then you actually play the game and realise its harder to win with than u think since its movepool is still ass in adv and its p slow with other fast threats around **cough cough arcanine cough cough**.
Venusaur is a complex mon, in theory its very strong but you can also use only 4 moves and you gotta make concessions. it also gives relatively free entry to the very popular arcanine just like scizor which makes it mostly fine in practice.
Typhlosion i dont think should be unbanned its just arcanine on roids, u only lack intim but ur dmg output is nuts.
Kadabra is an on paper broken, in practice underwhelming.

U either free kad + maldo or u free all minus typh.
this meta is far better than normal adv uu which is a total snoozefest and is widely disregarded as a boring ass tier. if you want to keep playing a boring ass tier go ahead and only unban kad and maldo, if you like playing games that are not kangaskhan staring contests you should unban the rest of the gang. by the way this thread is already going im afraid it will be the former which is a shame because kanga dominant adv uu is a terrible tier compared to other adv tiers.
pls make the correct decision :D

 

[Lyssa]

Do not let bo3 back in any of our teamtours, be it this one or uupl. Is it a fun format? absolutely and spectators especially love it, but 2 months of weekly prep in 3 different formats is extremely exhausting both for the players slotted in but also any people supporting said slot, and quality drops drastically halfway through the tour for a reason. The format works so much better for individuals and we could have uu invis 2 to showcase it rather than forcing it into teamtours when it both doesn't work but also when there is little interest from players that would be in said slot.

I cba to write a lot for SS UU but I think testing Thundurus-I is fine. Back when it was first banned it required a specific setup that you can't really pull off the same way nowadays, it would help our speedtiers a lot and would (maybe) introduce a centralization force SS could benefit a lot from, power from T to I matters quite a lot (and I know something about it considering i accidently miscalc Incarnate instead of Therian every other week and gaslit myself into thinking I'm about to take 0), ultimately I could be very wrong and it's actually bonkers but testing it for one tour when there is decent support for it can't hurt i suppose? As for the rest, I'd be heavily against any of them, they look stupid broken.

 

[gulch]

pretty much just parroting bouff/amity/ty for the most part here, kadabra is the only mon we should seriously consider testing out of the four brought up. always been a firm believer that adv testing should be all or nothing in terms of what uubls we drop, but in regards to the four mentioned kadabra is the only one i can see being relatively reasonable as the remaining three have been good in fpl even WITH the other new drops. donphan is just a better version of sandslash, armaldo is cracked, and weezing is genuinely fucking broken lol. scizor, regirock, zangoose, and swellow are all fucked up and should not be seriously considered, typhlosion is also probably not okay in a meta where the rest of the drops from fpl aren't keeping it down. kadabra has kinda proved itself to be a fraud recently, and while part of that is def due to getting overshadowed by the new drops (regirock, weezing, scizor), it also just... kinda has bad matchups against a lot of already existing staples? so yeah, also agreeing that we should either do adv + kadabra or just vanilla adv, don't think drops on a large enough scale to be meaningful will be conducive to a good, competitive adv this tour.

real uubd adv hot take

free sceptile!!

jokes aside would love to hear some other takes on this, but all in all i think it provides some interesting dynamics to the tier without being too massively constraining since a lot of top mons already do fine into it (scyther, arcanine, kanga, etc) and we should genuinely consider it.

EDIT: saw bfm's post and did want to say that if it's in the cards at ALL we should genuinely consider just mass dropping every single uubl we're allowed to, that's the only large scale action that would still be conducive to a competitive adv slot and is also what we should have done from the start

in terms of the sv4/bo3/uubers slot, i'm generally very much against multigens bo3, i find it super lame personally and it ends up mandating a lot more support on the backend while also inflating the top end of the draft a lot, and speaking as a manager from PUBD, that shit gets obnoxious fast. i think the argument that it provides higher quality games is kinda just a non-starter since a lot of the players who were going to be playing bo3 are probably getting drafted anyway since they can obviously play three separate metas at a competent tournament level.

sv4 is a fine enough choice, i agree that it had a good showing in snake and was a great avenue to get rising stars (apple, mclovin, etc) some playing time. anything that gets the 3k warriors off the bench is generally a net positive imo, so i wouldn't be opposed to seeing this.

uubers would be really cool even if i do believe the arguments against it are valid enough, the only real connection it has to being "UU" is just being an offshoot for ubers rejects, BUT the pool for it in fpl has been really competitive and it has enough of a dedicated community and a large enough player pool that i honestly see no issue slowly adopting it into our lineups. even some regular UU players like askov have managed to dip into the tier with decent success, meaning that it's obviously not a difficult slot to support either.

in terms of what i'd personally like to see, uubers > sv4 > bo3

in terms of what i think is reasonable, sv4 > bo3 > uubers

 

[Attribute]

While I do think Thundurus-I isn't healthy for the tier, as well as the other mons that are being entertained in the OP but to a larger extent (please don't even think about unbanning Aegislash especially...), I don't really want that to be the main focus of this post. Instead, I want to ask a question, which can probably apply to the other tiers that are considering retests: How do unbanning these mons make the tier better? I won't speak for ADV and GSC cause I don't know anything about them, but as far as SS goes, why add more things to account for in the builder? All this does is likely create more match up issues, and considering there is enough threats to think about, unbanning these mons would just add to the issue. No need to fix something that is already fixed.

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

I'm not that big of an ADV player, but I can't see myself unbanning any more UUBLs, and at that point, why test them. ADV is in a pretty good spot currently and I think keeping the format as-is is just the best course of action for it. Kadabra isn't a terrible test, but it also doesn't add anything. BFM ADV is pretty fun, but I also don't think it should be the new standard for ADV as it completely reshapes an established tier that's well-balanced.

As for extra slot, BO3 is a big no imo, SV4 is decent if we wanna have more evidence for potential bans or tests like with Kommo-o and I think we have the players to have decent games still in these slots. I'd be open to UUbers, though it is a bit weird to add to a more official team tour.

SV4>UUbers>>>>>>>>>>>>BO3

 

[BigFatMantis]

So since the 3 main gens I play are SS UU, ADV UU, and GSC UU, and in addition I am an Ubers UU council member, I prob have a lot to say on this topic, so I'll split this into multiple posts bc 1) I don't have time atm to do all of these things, and 2) should make it easier to read.

re: ADV UU drops:
UUBD is an "official" tour, regardless of the "fun" intent behind it, as it's basically the UUSD replacement. Therefore, we shouldn't be testing anything unless it's a good candidate for an "official" test. The UUFPL meta was not official and so we have lots of room for experimentation. That should not happen here. Considerations to a test in this tour should coincide with the general opinions the playerbase has expressed over time for specific instances on what we should do. ADV UU has had a lot of dialogue over the past 2+ years on this issue and I think dropping a bunch of random mons in an "official" tour would be unfair to the process we have established. That being said, the only real options for an "official" test for ADV UU that should be considered are:
A) do nothing
B) drop Kadabra
C) drop all UUBLs except the ones we aren't allowed to drop (e.g. Porygon2/Regice and a couple others) and also don't drop Raikou.

Nothing else should be considered for this tour, but that doesn't mean we can't keep having a dialogue about it. I did not list these options because I personally like them, I listed them because these are the only options that a significant portion of the ADV UU playerbase have considered for a year now for potential testing, and have been on multiple surveys. I'd like to entertain future unofficial tests to see how certain other combinations of mons work, for example the group mentioned in the OP of Weezing + Donphan + Armaldo + Kadabra would be a good entry point to discover the possibilities of further expansion of these drops, but that is purely experimental and should not be something to be done in this tournament. That should be reserved for something unofficial.

I have a lot of thoughts on the other topics (SS/GSC/Ubers UU etc.) that I'll post later today, but just wanted to get my opinion on ADV out there immediately.

 

[Lizzie]

While I do think Thundurus-I isn't healthy for the tier, as well as the other mons that are being entertained in the OP but to a larger extent (please don't even think about unbanning Aegislash especially...), I don't really want that to be the main focus of this post. Instead, I want to ask a question, which can probably apply to the other tiers that are considering retests: How do unbanning these mons make the tier better? I won't speak for ADV and GSC cause I don't know anything about them, but as far as SS goes, why add more things to account for in the builder? All this does is likely create more match up issues, and considering there is enough threats to think about, unbanning these mons would just add to the issue.

Can't speak for adv/gsc but my feelings in ss are that adding a more centralising offensive presence to the tier would mean you can have less solid defensive counterplay into some stuff and accounting for things could actually be easier, personally feel latias would be ideal for this but ik other people feel latias would be broken and that's fine, my opinion on thund-i is p much that it's probably not broken and so why not see if it's presence is positive or negative? I think ss is fine as a tier but I also feel it could be better and I'd entertain any suggestion that I feel could improve it

 

[gulch]

While I do think Thundurus-I isn't healthy for the tier, as well as the other mons that are being entertained in the OP but to a larger extent (please don't even think about unbanning Aegislash especially...), I don't really want that to be the main focus of this post. Instead, I want to ask a question, which can probably apply to the other tiers that are considering retests: How do unbanning these mons make the tier better? I won't speak for ADV and GSC cause I don't know anything about them, but as far as SS goes, why add more things to account for in the builder? All this does is likely create more match up issues, and considering there is enough threats to think about, unbanning these mons would just add to the issue. No need to fix something that is already fixed.

largely generalizing on adv here, but the reason a lot of testing is done is twofold:
1. tiering policy back when ADV was a current metagame was really bad and so a lot of things that are UUBL are largely questionable in a newer, more developed meta
2. a lot of people find current ADV UU "boring" or "solved" (hi!) which makes getting new players/builders/resources into the tier difficult because nobody has any actual interest in doing it except people who are already initiated

so to answer your question, proponents of drops believe that what's being "added" to the tier is essentially a new breath of life/fixing the plethora of mistakes that were made years and years ago. this obviously doesn't really apply to SS since it's much more modern and therefore there are less tiering decisions made that could be objectively qualified as "mistakes".

however, cherry-picking what mons to test based on arbitrary conditions and qualities does bring up the original question: what "value" do these add to the tier? and sure, there are some things like arcanine being a scyther check that are pretty obvious, but to a large extent, not everyone is going to agree on what value any of these things provide, especially without playtesting of any sort on a high level.

there also comes the issue that a lot of mons in adv face, and you can even see it in the discussion posts in this thread regarding a small sample size: some mons are fine if other mons drop with them! like in fpl, swellow and zangoose are fine, but that's largely because things like regirock, armaldo, and donphan are present. if these mons were tested individually, they'd likely be broken.

this is also why we have proponents of dropping literally every single uubl we're allowed to all at once (hi!), since this avoids the "x would be fine, but only if y is present" loops we usually end up in when discussing what to allow back into ADV. however, some people oppose doing so because it would, largely, make ADV an entirely new tier, which means people have to do way more work in the builder and learn a ton of new matchups.

tl:dr, ADV is a special case because a lot of the bans are just from bad tiering policy and it's a very delicate ecosystem of determining which uubls are fine on their own and which ones need to be there to check each other. BFM's post listing the realistic options is pretty succinct and i do agree those are the only three we should consider.

 

[cheru]

Speaking for gsc I’m down for Venusaur dropping. Every test game/theorymon has just devolved it into being a glorified Vileplume and should realistically be the next one to drop. Not so sure that Typhlosion would be the best to drop, not for its brokenness per se, but that it feels unnecessary at this time. Rather Smeargle could be a good edition to the tier as it can be an alternative, but ultimately it’s not a priority.

Test Venu > nothing > test Smeargle + ban BP > Test Typh

as for the last slot sv4 gives way more opportunities for newer faces to burst onto the scene, and the tier is in a very good place as well. UUbers still feels a bit isolated from this tier even with UUFPL, and bo3 is just a needless hassle

SV4 > UUbers > Bo3

 

[umbry]

I am strongly against retesting anything that isn't Thundurus-I in SS UU, however with thundy there might be a real case for a retest and one I would personally support.

I think the tier has gone through enough of a change since its ban to where we can justify giving it another look, we have received quite a few tools over time that can help deal with thundurus' weaknesses (fragility, issue with 4mss which it did not run into as much at the time, prediction reliant) as well as the development of new archetypes. The main advantage it gets over its therian counterpart is trading power for a better speed tier, getting the jump over nihilego and cobalion, which is pretty relevant, but I'm not sure if that would be enough for it to become too oppressing in current ss also seeing how easy it is dealing with thundurus-t, I'd say it's difficult to assess it properly at this point in time without giving it a try, if this were to gain enough support that is.
As for the benefits, my number one issue with ss is the lack of revenge killing options, which results in the teambuilding process become too constraint and heavy, with thundurus' speed tier we would have more freedom to offensively check threats instead of taking a reactive approach which we see all too often nowadays, in my opinion this would help relieve a bit of the pressure we see.

Regarding the other options, I think it's pretty clear not enough has changed to justify any other retests.

Also to quickly state my opinion about the tournament format, I'm pretty opposed to the inclusion of bo3 and I would prefer seeing either ubers or sv4 included. Sv4 makes the most sense as the format has worked over the years, though I wouldn't be too worked up over losing sv slots if ubers were to make the cut as 3 slots per team is already plenty, if the playerbase can support an ubers slot it's probably not a terrible shout to also bring something new to the table, either solution can work.

 

[LBN]

While i won't pretend the 10 mon drop for ADV UU isn't some of the most fun I've had (CB scizor is leaps and bounds the funniest thing I've laid my hands on) I also won't be pretending any of the adds are anywhere close to balanced besides Kadabra. While I think we can easily give kadabra an official shot later down the line, now isn't the time for that. BFM pretty much covered everything else I'd want to say on the matter regarding UUBD being official aswell

 

[Celebiii]

Heyo gonna keep my thoughts short:

• SS UU: I don't think Thundy-I really benefits the tier much and I'd be against a drop. Testing is of course fine but I don't think it should be the priority. I think if anything should be re-added it's Aegi - I enjoyed the Aegi meta much more even if it did mandate a Dark-type.
• GSC UU: No need to test Venu at the moment I think. I would really like to see Typhlosion tested though. It has a great speed tier, provides another Scyther check, and can threaten Hypno with Sunny Day sets which also have coverage for Waters. Wouldn't be terribly offended if it didn't happen given I think the tier is in a good spot rn but I would like to see it tried.

 

[udongirl]

Heyo gonna keep my thoughts short:

• SS UU: I don't think Thundy-I really benefits the tier much and I'd be against a drop. Testing is of course fine but I don't think it should be the priority. I think if anything should be re-added it's Aegi - I enjoyed the Aegi meta much more even if it did mandate a Dark-type.

Aegislash was banned due to retest from criticism by many people, including you, and since it was the last pokemon to be banned, literally nothing has changed since then. I think there are many UUBLs that are more broken, but in a way I feel it is the mon that is the furthest from unban.

 

[kumiko]

SS UU has been having a lot of talks about revisiting UUBL lately, with Thundurus-I being the main topic to potentially reintroduce into UU. While its Speed gets the jump over significant Pokémon like Nihilego, Cobalion, and Zarude, which could still be problematic these days, it’s also quite weaker and SS UU is a pretty bulky tier and the natural defensive options available can arguably keep Thundurus-I in line to where its a strong alternative to its Therian counterpart but nothing too insane. Its higher natural Speed could also prove helpful to building as a whole, with few Pokemon having the natural Speed over Cobalion and other threats in that range, so to many there’s enough merit to potentially evaluate whether reintroducing Thundurus-I into UU during UUBD to be a worthwhile endeavor to undergo. Other Pokémon like Latias, Aegislash, Gengar, Terrakion, and Galarian Zapdos have all received mentions one way or another about being readded to UU as well by several individuals, even if not as prevalent as the discussion around Thundurus-I, but in the eyes of the tournament planning team we want to open the floor for discussion on any Pokemon in SS UUBL to see what could happen. As such, it’s worth starting a dialogue about what changes should be tested out this tour to potentially see whether the tier could be changed for the better. Tagging notable SS UU players that come to mind (sorry if I forget anyone) to share your thoughts Attribute Lyssa Lily umbry spell Micciu kumiko KSt3ve Askov vivalospride Taka Liz Angeles

please do nothing

 

[BigFatMantis]

re: the additional slot

First off, please under no circumstances re-add a Bo3 format to a UU tour. It took ages to finally get rid of this in UUPL and it's been significantly better ever since. On top of that, the number of players that enjoyably and to a high level play all of SV + SS + SM is actually not that large as many of those tiers have very different playerbases - it's going to be a mix of players that probably enjoy SM but hate SS and play SV or play SV + SS but aren't really big SM players etc. etc. It's just not a good idea under any possible reasoning and should probably just be off the table entirely.

For a 4th SV vs. Ubers UU - personally I think we should be more about inclusivity here. Ubers UU is a great tier - it's probably my favorite SV tier, and it has an extremely dedicated and active playerbase on discord. I haven't met many people who have played the tier that do not like it - and UUFPL has actually done a lot to help push the tier forward and has gotten even more people involved with it. I think it would be a great addition to this tour and I think we should be welcoming these tiers into the community when possible. I don't buy to any of the arguments about a "disconnect" between this tier and the rest of UU - obviously there's a disconnect because we haven't given it a shot yet in an official tier. There was a "disconnect" with RBY UU too before we started including it in things and now it's gotten a lot better "connected". On top of that, there are actually quite a few players who play both SV UU and Ubers UU both at a high level - myself and Rasche for example who are both on the Ubers UU Council, and also players like Askov who played it to great success in UUFPL and other UU players who played in the Ubers UU Open and kickoff tour and made it pretty far (LpZ, Bouff, jawabarat, etc.). This is on top of the other great Ubers UU players who don't play other UU tiers - there is absolutely no shortage of great Ubers UU talent. I think including Ubers UU will by far have the most positive impact on the UU community as a whole, as you need to keep in mind when you begin including more communities within your community, both communities benefit.

SV4 isn't the worse but 3 SVs is more than enough. You have to keep in mind you aren't getting the same signups for UUBD as you are for UUPL, and so that 4th SV slot across 8 teams is not going to be particularly exciting for most people. It was more justifiable when the tier was just starting off but we're at a spot where I don't think a 4th SV slot adds much to the tier's development - it's just kind of a hassle to build a 4th SV team each week and with Smogon World Cup going on at the same time with an SV UU slot I don't really think we are starving for more SV UU representation atm. Far more supportive of being inclusive with another tier/community like Ubers UU than just having a 4th SV UU slot just bc it's easy.