Metagame USUM Memetagame Discussion was a mistake

[Thunder Pwoell]

It is a very anti-meta Pokémon, yes. But Xatu has one main problem that almost all psychic-types have: And that is pursuit-trapping. Even Reuniclus, which is a very good Pokémon in OU right now, does find itself struggling with that form of trapping, which is why I think Tyranitar is quite frankly amazing in this meta. Both Mega- and Choice Band Tyranitar invalidate almost all sets of almost all psychic-types.

Seeing a ttar is rare, and it has uturn so it can get out of those situations. TTAr is at 7% usage, and if u go 1825 its around 5%. Ttar-mega? ~2% Not even remotely close to invalidation

 

[Yoshi]

Seeing a ttar is rare, and it has uturn so it can get out of those situations. TTAr is at 7% usage, and if u go 1825 its around 5%. Ttar-mega? ~2% Not even remotely close to invalidation

Yeah you can say that on the ladder but like Tyranitar is a very good Pokemon for the meta right now, especially with its Pursuit Trapping capabilities. 5%-7% also isn’t “rare.” It’s not the highest amount of usage, but you should certainly watch out for it. Also, U-Turn doesn’t get it out of any situation, as Pursuit still works when they use U-Turn, so I don’t see what point you’re trying to make with that.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Yeah you can say that on the ladder but like Tyranitar is a very good Pokemon for the meta right now, especially with its Pursuit Trapping capabilities. 5%-7% also isn’t “rare.” It’s not the highest amount of usage, but you should certainly watch out for it. Also, U-Turn doesn’t get it out of any situation, as Pursuit still works when they use U-Turn, so I don’t see what point you’re trying to make with that.

I was saying that can uturn on the in coming ttar. Not great, but it can work. I run 3 psychic mons so Im always cautious of the tar. also 5-7 is pretty down there (#15 and #30 in ou). especially when most teams look the same.
For reference heres the list - notice how skewed it is
Total battles: 2041895
Avg. weight/team: 0.005
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Landorus-Therian | 49.06947% | 1199460 | 29.371% | 1029221 | 33.032% |
| 2 | Magearna | 24.94738% | 496677 | 12.162% | 398891 | 12.802% |
| 3 | Tapu Koko | 24.87027% | 745573 | 18.257% | 592235 | 19.007% |
| 4 | Kartana | 22.23371% | 490850 | 12.019% | 360565 | 11.572% |
| 5 | Chansey | 19.68686% | 309095 | 7.569% | 235870 | 7.570% |
| 6 | Greninja-Ash | 17.79955% | 625273 | 15.311% | 464612 | 14.911% |
| 7 | Heatran | 16.65278% | 502535 | 12.306% | 411695 | 13.213% |
| 8 | Toxapex | 16.62570% | 448199 | 10.975% | 346733 | 11.128% |
| 9 | Zygarde | 15.03473% | 297859 | 7.294% | 219003 | 7.029% |
| 10 | Clefable | 15.00448% | 245942 | 6.022% | 182166 | 5.846% |
| 11 | Ferrothorn | 14.86256% | 567013 | 13.884% | 484034 | 15.535% |
| 12 | Zapdos | 14.65988% | 324525 | 7.947% | 257359 | 8.260% |
| 13 | Tapu Lele | 14.51889% | 366369 | 8.971% | 273753 | 8.786% |
| 14 | Hawlucha | 12.56957% | 299429 | 7.332% | 204522 | 6.564% |
| 15 | Skarmory | 12.37146% | 262614 | 6.431% | 217347 | 6.976% |
| 16 | Scizor-Mega | 12.16112% | 295012 | 7.224% | 231146 | 7.418% |
| 17 | Tapu Bulu | 10.68086% | 296881 | 7.270% | 228828 | 7.344% |
| 18 | Sableye-Mega | 9.15204% | 127846 | 3.131% | 110272 | 3.539% |
| 19 | Medicham-Mega | 8.70398% | 204930 | 5.018% | 160624 | 5.155% |
| 20 | Tangrowth | 8.14294% | 199625 | 4.888% | 153506 | 4.927% |
| 21 | Greninja | 7.94011% | 362625 | 8.880% | 277763 | 8.914% |
| 22 | Excadrill | 7.76582% | 332069 | 8.131% | 257331 | 8.259% |
| 23 | Kyurem-Black | 7.57288% | 199240 | 4.879% | 147053 | 4.720% |
| 24 | Tornadus-Therian | 6.87111% | 84525 | 2.070% | 66440 | 2.132% |
| 25 | Keldeo | 6.69650% | 168980 | 4.138% | 128215 | 4.115% |
| 26 | Celesteela | 6.68764% | 308988 | 7.566% | 244667 | 7.852% |
| 27 | Venusaur-Mega | 6.39307% | 194527 | 4.763% | 149402 | 4.795% |
| 28 | Mawile-Mega | 5.80663% | 146719 | 3.593% | 107254 | 3.442% |
| 29 | Magnezone | 5.76733% | 245127 | 6.002% | 192189 | 6.168% |
and then...... ttar
| 30 | Tyranitar | 5.65028% | 266079 | 6.515% | 207433 | 6.657% |

 

[patlop2307]

Seeing a ttar is rare, and it has uturn so it can get out of those situations. TTAr is at 7% usage, and if u go 1825 its around 5%. Ttar-mega? ~2% Not even remotely close to invalidation

I am not basing its invalidation of psychic types off of usage lol. I am basing it off of the things it can do to psychic types and vice versa. Also, the argumentation with U-Turn is flawed because it does not help Xatu whatsoever. If it is faster, well, there is Pursuit with double the power, if Tyranitar is faster, however, it still gets off a good amount of damage before the Xatu is switched out.

Also, upon switching it in?? Players know that Xatu runs U-Turn and are only getting Tyranitar safely in and once it is in, it pretty much gets a kill... Also, insane hazard pressure due to the fact that it can always come in on doubles.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Also, upon switching it in?? Players know that Xatu runs U-Turn and are only getting Tyranitar safely in and once it is in, it pretty much gets a kill... Also, insane hazard pressure due to the fact that it can always come in on doubles.

Lets hone on this a little better b/c this essentially applies to any psychic type. I just want to let you and i both that we are not only talking about 5% of situations here, but an even smaller amount of situations where the ttar comes in on a mon that xatu has killed correct? We have to give perspective here bc the "ttar has pursuit and will pursuit u" is really a very specific situation.

 

[patlop2307]

Lets hone on this a little better b/c this essentially applies to any psychic type. I just want to let you and i both that we are not only talking about 5% of situations here, but an even smaller amount of situations where the ttar comes in on a mon that xatu has killed correct? We have to give perspective here bc the "ttar has pursuit and will pursuit u" is really a very specific situation.

First off, you can always come in without the Xatu having killed anything. Secondly, it applies to Xatu in specific, since it is a hazard-bouncer and you are forced to win 50/50s (You lose one, your Xatu gets heavily damaged/killed or hazards are up versus it, putting even more pressure onto the poor bird). Also, Tyranitar trapping Xatus is not a rarity at all, disregarding its initial usage.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

First off, you can always come in without the Xatu having killed anything. Secondly, it applies to Xatu in specific, since it is a hazard-bouncer and you are forced to win 50/50s (You lose one, your Xatu gets heavily damaged/killed or hazards are up versus it, putting even more pressure onto the poor bird). Also, Tyranitar trapping Xatus is not a rarity at all, disregarding its initial usage.

Thats actually true. Either way the ttar being there pressures you or forces a 50/50 - which you could win, but I see your point. Knowing about ttar youre likely going to have contingencies for when it happens but thats about as much as I want to talk about it for today lmao

 

[MetaNite]

I tried using that Xatu set and it was kind of just a dead weight, most it did was do some chip damage with Rocky Helmet or a weak attack. It’s incredibly vulnerable to Special Attacks. Definitely be better against stall. I’m sure it works but gimmicky at best, much better off with a different teammate in most situations.

Tyranitar is right now though. It counters the ever present Zapdos and Heatran, as well as screws with Choice locked Tapu. Fire Punch and Ice Punch are underrated. Whichever your team needs killed, Ferro, Lando, or Gliscor, ttar got you covered. Sand Rush Excadrill is also good right now. People seem to have forgotten how strong LO EQ is, expecting it to be only as strong as Scarf Lando.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Speaking of slept-on threats...

Let's discuss Salazzle.

Benefits/Meta trends in favor of Salazzle:

• Only outsped by 6 mons in the tier, one of which is an alternate form of another (Ash-Greninja), and one of which is kinda rare atm (Mega Alakazam)
• Low bulk is compensated for with an amazing Poison/Fire defensive typing, granting it a plethora of helpful resistances, including 4x resistances to Grass and Fairy, two types on the rise. This typing alone lets it scare out and set up against Pokemon like Magearna, Tapu Bulu, Scizor,
• Nasty Plot with its STABs and a Hidden Power of your choice let it hit many prominent Pokemon in the tier for high damage: Heatran, for instance, fears HP Ground.
• A lot of Scarf RKers that threaten it aren't in a good place in the meta: Scarf Lati is dropping like a stone (with standard Mega Lati getting cleanly one-shotted by +2 Acid Downpour), Blacephalon hype is dead, Scarf Bulu can't spam its STABs against it, and Scarf Garchomp isn't even a set anymore. This leaves Lele and Lando-T (prolly some other stuff I forgot too), and Scarf Lando isn't even its most used set on the ladder.
• However, it's not perfect. Other rising mons like Toxapex, Lopunny-Mega, Zygarde and Koko take advantage of it, and its bulk can still hurt it at times. It's also pretty one-note and predictable, with no real coverage to speak of outside of STABs and HP. However, this can be said for plenty of other mons currently in use like Gengar. This doesn't stop Salazzle from having a niche at all.

Now, admittedly, I haven't tested it enough to really gauge its viability and see if any of those claims consistently translate into practice. But I've played a couple games, and it seems pretty neat.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-708460516 (here's a replay of the lazzle putting in work, decently highish on ladder too)
http://pokepast.es/58e8c820173476d8 here's the team i've been playing around with

 

[talah]

Speaking of slept-on threats...

Let's discuss Salazzle.

Benefits/Meta trends in favor of Salazzle:

• Only outsped by 6 mons in the tier, one of which is an alternate form of another (Ash-Greninja), and one of which is kinda rare atm (Mega Alakazam)
• Low bulk is compensated for with an amazing Poison/Fire defensive typing, granting it a plethora of helpful resistances, including 4x resistances to Grass and Fairy, two types on the rise. This typing alone lets it scare out and set up against Pokemon like Magearna, Tapu Bulu, Scizor,
• Nasty Plot with its STABs and a Hidden Power of your choice let it hit many prominent Pokemon in the tier for high damage: Heatran, for instance, fears HP Ground.
• A lot of Scarf RKers that threaten it aren't in a good place in the meta: Scarf Lati is dropping like a stone (with standard Mega Lati getting cleanly one-shotted by +2 Acid Downpour), Blacephalon hype is dead, Scarf Bulu can't spam its STABs against it, and Scarf Garchomp isn't even a set anymore. This leaves Lele and Lando-T (prolly some other stuff I forgot too), and Scarf Lando isn't even its most used set on the ladder.
• However, it's not perfect. Other rising mons like Toxapex, Lopunny-Mega, Zygarde and Koko take advantage of it, and its bulk can still hurt it at times. It's also pretty one-note and predictable, with no real coverage to speak of outside of STABs and HP. However, this can be said for plenty of other mons currently in use like Gengar. This doesn't stop Salazzle from having a niche at all.

Now, admittedly, I haven't tested it enough to really gauge its viability and see if any of those claims consistently translate into practice. But I've played a couple games, and it seems pretty neat.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-708460516 (here's a replay of the lazzle putting in work, decently highish on ladder too)
http://pokepast.es/58e8c820173476d8 here's the team i've been playing around with

salazzle's pretty cool, but it struggles to break through toxapex, one of the best and most popular mons in the tier, especially so with the set u mentioned. sure it can poison it if u choose to do so because of corrosion, but tht means u give up coverage and in reality ur still walled bcuz ur forced to run something like np+double stab+toxic and regen is broken so pex never gets chipped. it also struggles with ttar, since u just get pursuit trapped by it and do rly nothing in return, is obviously worthless against chansey, which has dropped but is still a looming presence. its also checked by just about every decently fast mon(grens, koko, torn, every popular scarfer besides maybe kart and more) as well as things like zygarde(or heatran if u opt for hp ice)

its typing isnt exactly a blessing either, since whilst decent offensively it means it cant freely come in due to stealth rock and absorbing tspikes isnt of note when it lets toxapex in for basically free. it doesnt even scare out magearna too easily since dry fire blast does like 45 max, u get volted on and lose any momentum u might have gotten. yes it has some decent resists but it lacks the bulk to actually abuse them(scizor does 50 min with +2 uninvested BP, for example)

it can hold a niche with breaking some type of balance with additional pressure from mons like greninja but i dont really see it overshadowing blacephalon or gengar, its 2 probably biggest counterparts that have significantly greater niches imo and arent even that good rn.

 

[patlop2307]

Speaking of slept-on threats...

Let's discuss Salazzle.

Benefits/Meta trends in favor of Salazzle:

• Only outsped by 6 mons in the tier, one of which is an alternate form of another (Ash-Greninja), and one of which is kinda rare atm (Mega Alakazam)
• Low bulk is compensated for with an amazing Poison/Fire defensive typing, granting it a plethora of helpful resistances, including 4x resistances to Grass and Fairy, two types on the rise. This typing alone lets it scare out and set up against Pokemon like Magearna, Tapu Bulu, Scizor,
• Nasty Plot with its STABs and a Hidden Power of your choice let it hit many prominent Pokemon in the tier for high damage: Heatran, for instance, fears HP Ground.
• A lot of Scarf RKers that threaten it aren't in a good place in the meta: Scarf Lati is dropping like a stone (with standard Mega Lati getting cleanly one-shotted by +2 Acid Downpour), Blacephalon hype is dead, Scarf Bulu can't spam its STABs against it, and Scarf Garchomp isn't even a set anymore. This leaves Lele and Lando-T (prolly some other stuff I forgot too), and Scarf Lando isn't even its most used set on the ladder.
• However, it's not perfect. Other rising mons like Toxapex, Lopunny-Mega, Zygarde and Koko take advantage of it, and its bulk can still hurt it at times. It's also pretty one-note and predictable, with no real coverage to speak of outside of STABs and HP. However, this can be said for plenty of other mons currently in use like Gengar. This doesn't stop Salazzle from having a niche at all.

Now, admittedly, I haven't tested it enough to really gauge its viability and see if any of those claims consistently translate into practice. But I've played a couple games, and it seems pretty neat.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-708460516 (here's a replay of the lazzle putting in work, decently highish on ladder too)
http://pokepast.es/58e8c820173476d8 here's the team i've been playing around with

Salazzle is just there, in my opinion. Why? Because it fails to be even a sligh nuisance to stall, fails to sweep through hyper offenses, and gets countered by too much in the tier for it to be an actual threat to consider.

 

[Callmeyeshua]

I tried using that Xatu set and it was kind of just a dead weight, most it did was do some chip damage with Rocky Helmet or a weak attack. It’s incredibly vulnerable to Special Attacks. Definitely be better against stall. I’m sure it works but gimmicky at best, much better off with a different teammate in most situations.

Tyranitar is right now though. It counters the ever present Zapdos and Heatran, as well as screws with Choice locked Tapu. Fire Punch and Ice Punch are underrated. Whichever your team needs killed, Ferro, Lando, or Gliscor, ttar got you covered. Sand Rush Excadrill is also good right now. People seem to have forgotten how strong LO EQ is, expecting it to be only as strong as Scarf Lando.

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So Im almost at 2k points running a literal gimmick. Either everyone else is dogshit or the mon has merit. Yeah you need a team built around it that keeps up offensive pressure and I feel chansey is a requirement. But with those things it does what it needs to and does it well. In the hyper offensive meta sacking it and bringing your gren or specs koko ismt the worst of plays.

Ive used my xatu team to go from like 1600 to here so its doubtful Im just running into nothing but trash players with unoptimal teams. Gotta have the right build with it but it can do work. Also TTar isnt common enough to worry about, and you can double juat as much aa your opponent and you guess right on a double you bring in your specs gren or zlando they guess right they have to lock into pursuit to kill you. IDK skewed risk reward in your favor here. Yeah sometimes it does minimal but thats true for a lot of mons going against certain builds. Koko, arguably top 3 mon atm isnt doing shit if they have a build like excadrill, and lando. Itd be forced to u turn every time because giving a free turn to either is pretty bad. Scizor against a tran/zone team is forced to uturn every time, or run knock off (which is mad good right now imo). Now is it easier to neuter xatu? Yeah, its not even ranked atm. But if s tier pokemon can be rendered dead weight why cant an unranked one?

 

[pooyou123456789q]

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View attachment 103078

So Im almost at 2k points running a literal gimmick. Either everyone else is dogshit or the mon has merit. Yeah you need a team built around it that keeps up offensive pressure and I feel chansey is a requirement. But with those things it does what it needs to and does it well. In the hyper offensive meta sacking it and bringing your gren or specs koko ismt the worst of plays.

Ive used my xatu team to go from like 1600 to here so its doubtful Im just running into nothing but trash players with unoptimal teams. Gotta have the right build with it but it can do work. Also TTar isnt common enough to worry about, and you can double juat as much aa your opponent and you guess right on a double you bring in your specs gren or zlando they guess right they have to lock into pursuit to kill you. IDK skewed risk reward in your favor here. Yeah sometimes it does minimal but thats true for a lot of mons going against certain builds. Koko, arguably top 3 mon atm isnt doing shit if they have a build like excadrill, and lando. Itd be forced to u turn every time because giving a free turn to either is pretty bad. Scizor against a tran/zone team is forced to uturn every time, or run knock off (which is mad good right now imo). Now is it easier to neuter xatu? Yeah, its not even ranked atm. But if s tier pokemon can be rendered dead weight why cant an unranked one?

I don't want to sound rude, cause 2k is still an accomplishment despite what some say. However I would like to point out that people have peaked using shitmons.

 

[HC]

I thought Nido was good back in early SM when defensive cores were just Fini/Thorn/Tran. It was a time when stall didn't really exist, webs were good so it could fit on there, and just had a much better time due to less solid teambuilding in general. I remember Sub 3 attacks being an absolute menace to deal with.

However I don't think it's great now, you have to play super riskily with King which isn't ideal considering it only really fits on BO, and while risky plays are a part of the playstyle, half the time you still want to play fairly safe. Otherwise you have to bring it in on a sack.

It's actually poor against fat teams, despite being a breaker. If you're running stall, realistically the better teams still run Chansey/Sableye, which Nido just cannot break through and just gets PP stalled. Being unable to poison/spdef drop is so horrendous against these teams, and unless your opp plays shite or their team is shite, you're not breaking anything (Ice Beam AV Mag also can 1v1 if needed although it's fairly 50/50). Mega Venusaur is still relatively common, especially on ladder and Nido can't really break that.

Your better matchup is against balance/BO, currently, most defensive pivots in this playstyle hate switching in to Nido. 1 merit it does have is being a TSpiker (as I believe it should really run at least 1 hazard to stop it being dead-weight in some matches) that can 1v1 Pex is super nice as you force your opponent into basically anything else to take the TSpike. Furthermore, being able to prevent Koko from Volt Switching while keeping up offensive momentum is a great asset.

Issues still arise in the popularity of mons such as Scarf Lando, both Gren forms, Mega Latis, Lele and more who are staples on the playstyle that can consistently force King out. Not to mention the constant predicting it has to do due a good number of mons not being weak to either Ground/Poison. One bad prediction and your whole momentum is lost with this mon and you'll just end up sacking it.

Finally, there's so much opportunity cost in using it. I'm not saying it can't be utilised well, any mon within reason has its merits, but it's so hard to ever justify using King over Gren. Greninja's unpredictability is such an asset to it, its speed tier is phenomenal, it's got better priority if Ash, can run scarf sets more effectively, can anti-lead, can break, can set up hazards. WIth Gren in the tier, I just don't see where Nidoking gets its niche. 'Special attacker that can break AV Bulu' is even taken due to Gunk Shot being almost mandatory on AAA Protean Gren.

Still a fan of seeing underused mons do work so keep innovating. I was a fan of Nidoqueen last year so can see where you're coming from for sure :)

 

[MultiAmmiratore]

Nido is cool because of its typing and coverage, its typing Lets it easily come vs magearna and even vs koko to an extent ( if he predicts the switch and it specs hp ice that's a 2hko) and its coverage means it can destroy so many defensive cores, its speed tier isn't really high but still can outspeed all usual walls and some offensive mons lik e adamant zygarde, adamant landorus-t, Jolly gyarados, Mamoswine and others... I actually used it and it is really cool as much teams doesn't prepare for it, one of the few defensive mons is mantine as tboltless nido can't touch it, still mantine usage isn't really high... (also m-venu is bad.).
There's also chansey but it checks most special attackers so ...

 

[stuuful12]

Nidoking is a really fun mon to use, because of the work it can do versus balances and bulky offense that make up the majority of the teams in OU. I think comparing to Greninja is pretty misguided. For one thing, Nidoking sheer power means that prediction isn't as necessary, and depending on the rest of the opposing team, you can usually make good educated guesses as to what mon they will pivot into, or whether they will sack off the current one. I guess it can sometimes be challenging to predict, but you shouldn't use the king earlygame, but more to mid-game, when you can see the majority of the sets, and then wreak havoc. Sure its forced out by some pokemons, but almost none of those can safely switch-in, lest they get hit with an ultra powerful hit. The only time where Nidoking is really forced out, is after its gotten a kill, to which you should just switch out into a switch-in to those various mons. If you really want to ensure that you prediction is always correct, you should try out substitute on Nidoking. Thanks to Sludge Wave, Earth Power, and Ice beam coverage being pretty good on its own, Substitute can help ease prediction making Nidoking much easier to use, and much harder for the opponents to face. That being said, Nidoking is pretty risky to use, but if your confident in your prediction skills, and / or want a challenge, I recommend you try out the king.

 

[Thunder Pwoell]

Nidoking is not risky to use at all tbh I run sash and it forces players to make hard decisions.For example, tbolt will kill greninja so they water shuriken and risk the 4 hit bc it lives 3. Also kokos are scared af of nidokings, and magearnas. There are so many fairies and nidoking weak teams running aroudn that its insane. I dont run sludge wave bc not many ppl will let you sludge on them. ice beam, tbolt, and earth power are really all u need.

 

[MANNAT]

Greninja @ Waterium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Gunk Shot
- Spikes

I've really been liking Waterium Z Greninja as of late because of its ability to guarantee hazards vs basically every entry hazard setter in the tier while simultaneously fitting into standard Ash Greninja teams pretty seamlessly, being able to lure out something like a Tapu Bulu or Ferrothorn for a teammate that otherwise struggle with them such as Tapu Koko. Hydro Pump is a really solid STAB attack that can do solid damage to neutral targets and the Z-move allows you to hit harder than Specs Greninja and nuke something out of the game or prevent a hazard remover like Zapdos from removing your entry hazards (90% chance to OHKO after rocks). Obviously Ash Greninja is much more potent post-transformation and can cheese through normal checks like Toxapex and Ferrothorn with Dark Pulse flinches to win in the late game, but this set is really neat as an early-mid game breaker/lure that can clear the way for a teammate to have a field day on the opposition.

 

[silent ghost]

Xatu is pretty bad mon for ou, it can barely come in on anything, tapu koko, greninja, zapdos, Landorus-T, Volcarona, Zygarde are some of the biggest threats. And even if you try to come in on Lando, which you think you can magic bounce and smart player will just use knock off. And even stall doesn't really care about xatu if they have mega-Sableye, and Chansey. Even mega-fighting types run fake out+ice punch.

 

[matthewc20090]

lando doesnt even run knock off...

i like xatu a lot and i think it could be potentially good. now, i havent personally used it, but ive faced it a fee times on ladder and being able to outright beat stuff like ferro and defensive lando seems cool especially for a non mega. id use it on like a volcarona team or a zardx team just cause xatu shuts down most common rockers in the tier barring tran.

 

[A]

The concept isn't anything new, but has been relatively unexplored and can potentially be quite solid right now, so here's a little cute core.

me irl (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Wish
- Secret Power

also me irl (Tapu Bulu) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Atk / 56 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Nature's Madness

(this core assumes you already have a rocker, and you should run something to patch up fire weakness).

Okay so the premise is pretty simple, Jirachi and Bulu have decent defensive synergy with each other somewhat checking some of their answers to each other quite nicely (Kyurem-Black, Ash Greninja) to name a few. Most of this is pretty standard aside from the Secret Power tech. Outside of Grassy Terrain, it's essentially slightly weaker non-contact Body Slam, getting off that nice 60% paralysis. The real meat though would be its effect in Grassy Terrain. The move in Grassy Terrain has a 30% to sleep, with Serene Grace in play this is boosted up to 60%. Potentially being able to shut down and say put Heatran or the like to sleep is pretty huge and can be a massive momentum shift, and then you can U-turn out appropriately. (this one sleep counts towards the Sleep Clause, so you can't sleep multiple.) The EV spread is a bit strange but it lets you U-turn out of Heatran's way if you dont wanna risk or reveal Secret Power, it also outpaces Timid Hoopa-Unbound by 1 point, and this essentially acts as an offensive counterplay measure to NP Hoopa-U, as it tries to NP up or attack you, U-turn rips it to shreds.

At the moment I'm sort of messing with Rachi + Bulu alongside pursuiters, or a fat ground like Zyg, and it's been going nicely.

 

[silent ghost]

lando doesnt even run knock off...

i like xatu a lot and i think it could be potentially good. now, i havent personally used it, but ive faced it a fee times on ladder and being able to outright beat stuff like ferro and defensive lando seems cool especially for a non mega. id use it on like a volcarona team or a zardx team just cause xatu shuts down most common rockers in the tier barring tran.

there are people who still run knock off on lando-t, Xatu doesn't shut down rocks as much as you think, since lando-t kills you with knock off, and still sets up rocks, greninja, kills you with ice, or dark, and still sets up spikes, gliscor, kills you with knock off, and still sets up rocks, and of course you can't stop tyranitar.

 

[matthewc20090]

ok let me stop you right there

lando does not run knock off. it might have done so in gen 6, but currently knock off is only an option on scarf sets, and even then is an inferior option to stuff like explosion, hp ice, and defog. if you brought up stone edge it would have been a better argument since stone edge on non scarf sets are somewhat common, but knock off is a non-argument imo.

even if lando did run knock off, xatu has enough bulk to live and roost off damage.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Xatu: 208-246 (62.4 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Xatu: 140-166 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

i'll give you greninja, but just the presense of xatu makes it hard for gren to click spikes. you'd have to predict heavily to get up spikes with gren vs a xatu.

gliscor and ttar don't run rocks lmao.

also
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Xatu: 122-144 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

and you're not running rocks since you need roost eq and sd to beat xatu. meanwhile xatu pressures landorus-t, ferro, pex, celesteela, and tran from ever clicking their hazards and status moves

 

[silent ghost]

Ok lets say you pull off magic bounce, then they just defog. Its not a big deal. And if someone sees Xatu on your team, they are not going to throw rocks or spikes anyway unless they are a bad player. You are still going to take damage if you try to switch in, or going to get set up by swords dance or dragon dance users. Which you just switched into a swords dance or dragon dance, while your Xatu hasn't done anything, but let them still set up. I know you are a fan of Xatu, but really no one uses it in OU, unless you have some vids showing Xatu is actual viable.

And people still use knock off on lando-t I don't care what you say, cause supersonic skystrike wrecks a lot of grass users, and hawlucha, not everyone uses choice scarf

 

[MultiAmmiratore]

Ok lets say you pull off magic bounce, then they just defog. Its not a big deal. And if someone sees Xatu on your team, they are not going to throw rocks or spikes anyway unless they are a bad player. You are still going to take damage if you try to switch in, or going to get set up by swords dance or dragon dance users. Which you just switched into a swords dance or dragon dance, while your Xatu hasn't done anything, but let them still set up. I know you are a fan of Xatu, but really no one uses it in OU, unless you have some vids showing Xatu is actual viable.

That's the point, xatu prevents hazards forcing the opponent to not even setup them,
Also saying bouncing rocks is not that good because they can defog is like saying Rocks aren't big deal because u can defog them.
Being able to safely come on most Stealth rockers / toxapex(tspike) is Nice and having u-turn is really great as it can easily gain momentum forcing out those.
U say it is passive and is setup fodder to many things but you just need to rwmember that and support a bit with teammates, also u-turn can help this as it can just take momentum on the setup move and go with ur answer, and if u have none that's just ur team building fault.
It obviously isn't really good but it has a decent typing + magic bounce which prevent rocks vs most rocker which is the only niche it needs