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Resource USUM AG Viability Rankings
- Thread starter MZ
- Start date
K, I still don't understand when this mon became such a good mon for you guys to praise it (Psych Up Poisonceus was a terrible meme last gen and now it's suddenly become a legit good set).
Well, it's B-, and it does a pretty solid job of supporting Zygarde/Darkceus, which are both very new additions to gen 7 viability. Poisonceus was one of the primary reasons why Xern got a nerf this gen.
Sorry about the argument above. Anyways, I felt like I needed to make a nomination about a Pokemon that was super hyped earlier in the generation, and hasn't seen nearly any usage since.
Pyukumuku C+ -> C This mon saw decent usage at the beginning of the gen, most commonly with the Z-Purify Baton Pass set. It would use Z-Purify, which gave it +1 in all stats besides evasion and accuracy, and it would then proceed to Baton Pass that to a teammate to help them sweep. However, as the generation has progressed, Pyukumuku has lost usage more and more until I can safely say I haven't seen one in months. Its Z-Move slot is better used on other Pokemon like Zygarde and Arceus-Ghost, and it is outclassed in terms of Unaware walls by Clefable and Quagsire. Pyukumuku also only learns utility moves, so not a single offensive move in its entire learnset (Unless you count Counter). This allows it to be completely trapped and utterly useless against Taunt Mega Gengar, which doesn't allow it to switch out, or pivot using Baton Pass. Overall, this Pokemon shouldn't be above other Pokemon in the C rank, such as Clefable (seriously, why is Clef ranked lower than it?)
Pyukumuku C+ -> C This mon saw decent usage at the beginning of the gen, most commonly with the Z-Purify Baton Pass set. It would use Z-Purify, which gave it +1 in all stats besides evasion and accuracy, and it would then proceed to Baton Pass that to a teammate to help them sweep. However, as the generation has progressed, Pyukumuku has lost usage more and more until I can safely say I haven't seen one in months. Its Z-Move slot is better used on other Pokemon like Zygarde and Arceus-Ghost, and it is outclassed in terms of Unaware walls by Clefable and Quagsire. Pyukumuku also only learns utility moves, so not a single offensive move in its entire learnset (Unless you count Counter). This allows it to be completely trapped and utterly useless against Taunt Mega Gengar, which doesn't allow it to switch out, or pivot using Baton Pass. Overall, this Pokemon shouldn't be above other Pokemon in the C rank, such as Clefable (seriously, why is Clef ranked lower than it?)
Nomming
(Vivillon) Unranked to D
Vivillon @ Leftovers
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
Vivillon has saw a lot of use recently, after I popularised it. Vivillon is another abuser of the lack of Sleep Clause. I've seen many say its "The Darkrai of Gen 7". Even though I don't disagree with that, it isn't exactly the same. For one, It's frailer, which means it dies to Extreme Speed quicker. It also is slower, having just Base 89 Speed. This is enough to outspeed the likes of Excadrill, and any support Arceus form that runs 108 Speed EVs or anything below. This weakness is quickly patched up using Quiver Dance, letting it have 456 Spe at +1, and 606 Spe at +2. At this point it outspeeds the entire meta except Scolipede. Another couple of pros Darkrai has over Vivillon, is its access to a better movepool with more variety in sets, that it can hit Grass types with it's Sleep-inducing move, and Bad Dreams inducing damage to pokémon with the Sleep status ailment. However this is where most of the pros Darkrai has to Vivillon stop. Vivillon's main Sleep-inducing move, Sleep Powder has 97,5% Accuracy thanks to Vivillon's Ability, Compoundeyes. Its main STAB, Hurricane, is spammable enough, because again thanks to Compoundeyes, it hits a usable 91% Accuracy, something else Hurricane does is hit most Grass type pokémon, which are immume to Sleep Powder, for Super Effective damage. Even though 16 PP is shallow, it can still function nicely as a late game sweeper. Something that has also changed is that Lum Berries and Sleep Talk are way less common than they used to be in Gen 6. Quiver Dance boosting the Special Defense stat also helps it with tanking weaker hits with its Substitute after a couple of boosts.
Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-553527724
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-553523292
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-552381171
Nomming
(Vivillon-Fancy) Unranked to D
Same as above, however Vivillon-Fancy has a couple Differences. Firstly, it lacks a Hidden Ability, Friend Guard, this Ability is useless in Singles and has its usefulness lying in Doubles. As for differences in moves, it lacks 1 Egg Move, Rage Powder. Again this is useless, because of its usefulness lying in Doubles. It lacks 3 Pre-Evolution only moves, Tackle, Harden and String Shot, all of which are outclassed by Return, Iron Defense, and Tailwind respectively. All of these I deem so useless, not having them decreases the chances of misclicking them in the teambuilder! It does have 1 move which a regular Vivillon doesn't, Hold Hands. Again, this isn't as useful, but I find Z-Hold Hands more useful than say, Tackle.
Nomming
(Vivillon-Pokeball) Unranked to D
Same as the above, with one exception, Vivillon-Pokeball doesn't learn Hold Hands. The lack of every useless move again increases the chances of not misclicking a move, which is why I think all 3 forms should be ranked.
Nomming
(Shedinja) D to Unranked
I feel like Shedinja lost its mojo this generation. It isn't as useful as it was back in Gen 6. Xerneas drastically dropped in viability, and Kyogre dropped in usage. I didn't like the nomination to D it got last generation, even though I loved it like crazy, the amount of support required just isn't worth using this fella for nowadays. The only use I can think of for it is a counterteam. I am sorry to all Shedinja lovers like me, but this just has to go.
Vivillon @ Leftovers
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Powder
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Quiver Dance
Vivillon has saw a lot of use recently, after I popularised it. Vivillon is another abuser of the lack of Sleep Clause. I've seen many say its "The Darkrai of Gen 7". Even though I don't disagree with that, it isn't exactly the same. For one, It's frailer, which means it dies to Extreme Speed quicker. It also is slower, having just Base 89 Speed. This is enough to outspeed the likes of Excadrill, and any support Arceus form that runs 108 Speed EVs or anything below. This weakness is quickly patched up using Quiver Dance, letting it have 456 Spe at +1, and 606 Spe at +2. At this point it outspeeds the entire meta except Scolipede. Another couple of pros Darkrai has over Vivillon, is its access to a better movepool with more variety in sets, that it can hit Grass types with it's Sleep-inducing move, and Bad Dreams inducing damage to pokémon with the Sleep status ailment. However this is where most of the pros Darkrai has to Vivillon stop. Vivillon's main Sleep-inducing move, Sleep Powder has 97,5% Accuracy thanks to Vivillon's Ability, Compoundeyes. Its main STAB, Hurricane, is spammable enough, because again thanks to Compoundeyes, it hits a usable 91% Accuracy, something else Hurricane does is hit most Grass type pokémon, which are immume to Sleep Powder, for Super Effective damage. Even though 16 PP is shallow, it can still function nicely as a late game sweeper. Something that has also changed is that Lum Berries and Sleep Talk are way less common than they used to be in Gen 6. Quiver Dance boosting the Special Defense stat also helps it with tanking weaker hits with its Substitute after a couple of boosts.
Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-553527724
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-553523292
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-552381171
Nomming
Same as above, however Vivillon-Fancy has a couple Differences. Firstly, it lacks a Hidden Ability, Friend Guard, this Ability is useless in Singles and has its usefulness lying in Doubles. As for differences in moves, it lacks 1 Egg Move, Rage Powder. Again this is useless, because of its usefulness lying in Doubles. It lacks 3 Pre-Evolution only moves, Tackle, Harden and String Shot, all of which are outclassed by Return, Iron Defense, and Tailwind respectively. All of these I deem so useless, not having them decreases the chances of misclicking them in the teambuilder! It does have 1 move which a regular Vivillon doesn't, Hold Hands. Again, this isn't as useful, but I find Z-Hold Hands more useful than say, Tackle.
Nomming
Same as the above, with one exception, Vivillon-Pokeball doesn't learn Hold Hands. The lack of every useless move again increases the chances of not misclicking a move, which is why I think all 3 forms should be ranked.
Nomming
I feel like Shedinja lost its mojo this generation. It isn't as useful as it was back in Gen 6. Xerneas drastically dropped in viability, and Kyogre dropped in usage. I didn't like the nomination to D it got last generation, even though I loved it like crazy, the amount of support required just isn't worth using this fella for nowadays. The only use I can think of for it is a counterteam. I am sorry to all Shedinja lovers like me, but this just has to go.
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Alright, I'll make a few noms (may add a couple more later) based on my recent laddering experience
Mega Gyarados - D to C/C-
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Waterfall/Earthquake
I'll start off by addressing the elephant in the room - the opportunity cost for this sucks. It's quite clearly not on the same level as Mega Ray as a sweeper, and is probably outclassed by a bulk of other megas in terms of sheer power. However, if you look at the prevalence of Lugia-Ho oh-Ferrothorn based stall teams in the current meta, along with the occasional BP teams, Mega Gyarados gains a very unique niche in the metagame. Its access to taunt along with Dragon Dance gives it an edge over other setup sweeping megas, whereas it is able to break common AG Stall better than Mega Rayquaza in most situations. The combination of mold breaker + taunt + Dragon Dance absolutely shatters any passive and slow mon, and also is very difficult for Baton Pass to deal with. I understand its limitations in general, but this niche on its own begs to push Gyarados out of the D ranks. It just does not deserve to be ranked on the same level as Mega Slowbro. If Mega Scizor can make C rank with its limitations, mega Gyarados definitely deserves to be there. I'm not assuming that Mega Scizor is bad, btw.
A couple of replays to show what it does -
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-555574472
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-536232655 BP
Arceus Fire - D to C/C-
The most obvious thing for Fireceus to do would be checking Xerneas, and I believe that is why it was ranked D. Where it lies different from Poisonceus is its generally more spam-able fire STAB along with threatening Ferrothorn and Celesteela at the same time. However, no one really took into consideration just how brilliant Fireceus can be when built around mons that support it.
Arceus-Fire @ Firium Z
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roar
- Flamethrower
- Recover
Right off of the bat, this is a brilliant partner for Zygarde. It checks a majority of the threats to Zygarde, and Zygarde does the same back for it. Adding a Ferrothorn or Primal Groudon to the mix makes the core almost impossible to break with one mon alone. Fireceus is able to tank +4 Moonblast with this set, along with tanking +2 HP Ground after rocks and +4 HP Ground without rocks.
+4 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 372-438 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 195-229 (44 - 51.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
This allows a set up of Calm Mind leading to the eventual roar once Fireceus is comfortably tanking Xerneas hits, allowing it to counter Xerneas. Along with this, flamethrower is generally a very reliable STAB, with the exception of Primal Kyogre, which can be dealt with the previously mentioned Ferrothorn/Primal Groudon inclusion. Calm mind + Roar also lets Fireceus wins several Calm mind battles, along with pressuring many common Arceus forms like Steelceus, Fairyceus, Grassceus etc. It does often fall short of being a solid defensive option all on its own, but its flaws are not very difficult to fill for other teammates. On a side note, Z flamethrower has a chance to kill E killers after CM and rocks.
We have already mentioned Poisonceus' niches before, and most of them revolve solely around it being a very good Xern check. While Fireceus does not do it as effectively, it is very reliably nonetheless. There is the sad part that it is entirely dead vs Kyogre Primal and quite vulnerable to rocks, which is why it is going to be limited in its viability arguments. In every other conceivable way, you'd want to have a Fireceus over a Poisonceus. Ferrothorn and Celesteela are very common threats, whereas Steelceus is one of the most viable CM forms in the game. There's a lot of utility here which is never considered solely because this set looks bad on paper. I insist that anyone who hasn't built around this try to do so, it's a very good investment.
Tapu Koko - Unranked to D
This may receive some negative reactions, but I think electric terrain is viable in AG. And I'll show you why.
252 SpA Arceus-Electric Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Electric Terrain: 366-432 (96 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Electric Terrain: 355-418 (93.1 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus in Electric Terrain: 333-393 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I tried using webs based around Electric terrain, and I truly believe it has potential to be good, especially against some of the bird-spam balance/stall teams in the metagame. Electriceus' CM + 3 attacks set covers almost everything there is to cover, and once webs are on with terrain in use, it's very difficult to come back from there for any team against Eleceus. Zekrom already has a somewhat good spot in webs teams because of its potential to torment birds. Arceus-Water, Yveltal, Ho oh, Lugia, Celesteela, Kyogre-Primal etc. These are just the common mons weak to electric STAB. Almost nothing switches into Ice Beam + Thunder + Earth Power Eleceus in e terrain (with the exception of max sp def P don). All of this starts with a Tapu Koko. It being unranked is like saying electric terrain is not viable at all in AG. I just can't seem to agree with that. Not to mention Tapu Koko is pretty fast and good on its own, although nothing spectacular without its ability. Still deserves a ranking.
Edit - Not to mention Tapu Koko is the best anti-smeargle lead in the game.
Mega Salamence - B to C+
I can not understand why this is B. I'm not saying Mega Salamence is bad, but it just makes very little sense for this to be on the same ranks as Mega Sableye, Giratina and Deoxys Speed, while being higher than Excadrill, Poisonceus and Smeargle. This is just a very hard thing for me to buy, as I am yet to see Mega Salamence being used in gen 7 AG. I just don't get it. :3
I know it's not a very good argument for me to repeat over and over again why Mega Salamence being here 'doesn't make sense', but unless someone can actually make an argument for why it deserves to be this high, I really think it needs to drop. The opportunity cost is too big and I really would not choose Mega Salamence over the other megas with well defined niches in any case.
I'd also like some activity with reference to the previous noms posted. There's a healthy bunch of them, so please support/oppose any of them.
Mega Gyarados - D to C/C-
Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Taunt
- Waterfall/Earthquake
I'll start off by addressing the elephant in the room - the opportunity cost for this sucks. It's quite clearly not on the same level as Mega Ray as a sweeper, and is probably outclassed by a bulk of other megas in terms of sheer power. However, if you look at the prevalence of Lugia-Ho oh-Ferrothorn based stall teams in the current meta, along with the occasional BP teams, Mega Gyarados gains a very unique niche in the metagame. Its access to taunt along with Dragon Dance gives it an edge over other setup sweeping megas, whereas it is able to break common AG Stall better than Mega Rayquaza in most situations. The combination of mold breaker + taunt + Dragon Dance absolutely shatters any passive and slow mon, and also is very difficult for Baton Pass to deal with. I understand its limitations in general, but this niche on its own begs to push Gyarados out of the D ranks. It just does not deserve to be ranked on the same level as Mega Slowbro. If Mega Scizor can make C rank with its limitations, mega Gyarados definitely deserves to be there. I'm not assuming that Mega Scizor is bad, btw.
A couple of replays to show what it does -
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-555574472
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-536232655 BP
Arceus Fire - D to C/C-
The most obvious thing for Fireceus to do would be checking Xerneas, and I believe that is why it was ranked D. Where it lies different from Poisonceus is its generally more spam-able fire STAB along with threatening Ferrothorn and Celesteela at the same time. However, no one really took into consideration just how brilliant Fireceus can be when built around mons that support it.
Arceus-Fire @ Firium Z
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roar
- Flamethrower
- Recover
Right off of the bat, this is a brilliant partner for Zygarde. It checks a majority of the threats to Zygarde, and Zygarde does the same back for it. Adding a Ferrothorn or Primal Groudon to the mix makes the core almost impossible to break with one mon alone. Fireceus is able to tank +4 Moonblast with this set, along with tanking +2 HP Ground after rocks and +4 HP Ground without rocks.
+4 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 372-438 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire: 195-229 (44 - 51.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
This allows a set up of Calm Mind leading to the eventual roar once Fireceus is comfortably tanking Xerneas hits, allowing it to counter Xerneas. Along with this, flamethrower is generally a very reliable STAB, with the exception of Primal Kyogre, which can be dealt with the previously mentioned Ferrothorn/Primal Groudon inclusion. Calm mind + Roar also lets Fireceus wins several Calm mind battles, along with pressuring many common Arceus forms like Steelceus, Fairyceus, Grassceus etc. It does often fall short of being a solid defensive option all on its own, but its flaws are not very difficult to fill for other teammates. On a side note, Z flamethrower has a chance to kill E killers after CM and rocks.
We have already mentioned Poisonceus' niches before, and most of them revolve solely around it being a very good Xern check. While Fireceus does not do it as effectively, it is very reliably nonetheless. There is the sad part that it is entirely dead vs Kyogre Primal and quite vulnerable to rocks, which is why it is going to be limited in its viability arguments. In every other conceivable way, you'd want to have a Fireceus over a Poisonceus. Ferrothorn and Celesteela are very common threats, whereas Steelceus is one of the most viable CM forms in the game. There's a lot of utility here which is never considered solely because this set looks bad on paper. I insist that anyone who hasn't built around this try to do so, it's a very good investment.
Tapu Koko - Unranked to D
This may receive some negative reactions, but I think electric terrain is viable in AG. And I'll show you why.
252 SpA Arceus-Electric Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Electric Terrain: 366-432 (96 - 113.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus in Electric Terrain: 355-418 (93.1 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus in Electric Terrain: 333-393 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I tried using webs based around Electric terrain, and I truly believe it has potential to be good, especially against some of the bird-spam balance/stall teams in the metagame. Electriceus' CM + 3 attacks set covers almost everything there is to cover, and once webs are on with terrain in use, it's very difficult to come back from there for any team against Eleceus. Zekrom already has a somewhat good spot in webs teams because of its potential to torment birds. Arceus-Water, Yveltal, Ho oh, Lugia, Celesteela, Kyogre-Primal etc. These are just the common mons weak to electric STAB. Almost nothing switches into Ice Beam + Thunder + Earth Power Eleceus in e terrain (with the exception of max sp def P don). All of this starts with a Tapu Koko. It being unranked is like saying electric terrain is not viable at all in AG. I just can't seem to agree with that. Not to mention Tapu Koko is pretty fast and good on its own, although nothing spectacular without its ability. Still deserves a ranking.
Edit - Not to mention Tapu Koko is the best anti-smeargle lead in the game.
Mega Salamence - B to C+
I can not understand why this is B. I'm not saying Mega Salamence is bad, but it just makes very little sense for this to be on the same ranks as Mega Sableye, Giratina and Deoxys Speed, while being higher than Excadrill, Poisonceus and Smeargle. This is just a very hard thing for me to buy, as I am yet to see Mega Salamence being used in gen 7 AG. I just don't get it. :3
I know it's not a very good argument for me to repeat over and over again why Mega Salamence being here 'doesn't make sense', but unless someone can actually make an argument for why it deserves to be this high, I really think it needs to drop. The opportunity cost is too big and I really would not choose Mega Salamence over the other megas with well defined niches in any case.
I'd also like some activity with reference to the previous noms posted. There's a healthy bunch of them, so please support/oppose any of them.
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Want a really weird, sorta innovative niche Pokemon that has never seen or used before (probably for good reason) and probably only works against mid ladder teams? I got your back.
Nomming Silvally-N to D
Silvally @ Choice Band
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Fire Fang
- Crunch
- Pursuit
(moves in italics are optional, suggested fillers)
Silvally is one of, if not the, strongest users of Explosion available. It hits much harder than you'd think. Here are some hopefully relevant examples:
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 403-475 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
RP Pdon
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon: 400-472 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
SR Pdon
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 462-544 (120.9 - 142.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ekiller
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 462-544 (111.5 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bulky Ekiller
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 589-694 (141.9 - 167.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ho-Oh
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Lugia: 357-420 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Lugia
If there are any other relevant calcs please say so, I can't think.
Why are you nominating Explosion? Doesn't that KO your Poke too?
First up, an Explosion user that can guarantee KOs against lots of Pokemon is a valuable asset. Whilst you lose a Pokemon that is not an integral aspect of a team core your opponent could lose their key sweeper or their sole counter for one of yours. Trading in this manner, if done intelligently, provides a key advantage to the utilizer.
How do you actually use Silvally?
When I've used Silvally I've put it in a couple different roles to see where it sits nicely. Thanks to the nice Pdon OHKO Silvally likes playing against Pdon leads and the opponent is placed at a disadvantage nearly immediately, losing a key rock setter, Xern counter, etc. Silvally OHKOs I'm pretty sure everything that doesn't resist Explosion after rocks, so Silvally's also a really good option for disrupting balance or stall cores mid-game. Finally, Explosion leaves a nice little niche for a set-up sweeper to come in and set up, particularly if its counters or checks have already been removed.
TL;DR-It's useful across a variety of positions.
Why aren't there any replays? If Silvally's so good, show us!
I'm an ass player, any replays that I share would be against irrelevant folks. It's good I swear, but I lack the skills to show it. Sorry.
Nomming Silvally-N to D
Silvally @ Choice Band
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Fire Fang
- Crunch
- Pursuit
(moves in italics are optional, suggested fillers)
Silvally is one of, if not the, strongest users of Explosion available. It hits much harder than you'd think. Here are some hopefully relevant examples:
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Groudon: 403-475 (105.2 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
RP Pdon
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon: 400-472 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
SR Pdon
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 462-544 (120.9 - 142.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ekiller
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 462-544 (111.5 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bulky Ekiller
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 589-694 (141.9 - 167.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ho-Oh
252+ Atk Choice Band Silvally Explosion vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Lugia: 357-420 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Lugia
If there are any other relevant calcs please say so, I can't think.
Why are you nominating Explosion? Doesn't that KO your Poke too?
First up, an Explosion user that can guarantee KOs against lots of Pokemon is a valuable asset. Whilst you lose a Pokemon that is not an integral aspect of a team core your opponent could lose their key sweeper or their sole counter for one of yours. Trading in this manner, if done intelligently, provides a key advantage to the utilizer.
How do you actually use Silvally?
When I've used Silvally I've put it in a couple different roles to see where it sits nicely. Thanks to the nice Pdon OHKO Silvally likes playing against Pdon leads and the opponent is placed at a disadvantage nearly immediately, losing a key rock setter, Xern counter, etc. Silvally OHKOs I'm pretty sure everything that doesn't resist Explosion after rocks, so Silvally's also a really good option for disrupting balance or stall cores mid-game. Finally, Explosion leaves a nice little niche for a set-up sweeper to come in and set up, particularly if its counters or checks have already been removed.
TL;DR-It's useful across a variety of positions.
Why aren't there any replays? If Silvally's so good, show us!
I'm an ass player, any replays that I share would be against irrelevant folks. It's good I swear, but I lack the skills to show it. Sorry.
Ah, just no man. lol
If you want Explosion, use Lando-t for the additional rocks that Silvally doesn't get. Or the intimidate. Like I don't even know where to start here. Why would I ever use this? What even is the point of this? Jesus I actually can't respectfully make an argument against this lol. It's just so bad and NO.
Adding a couple new noms
Galvantula Unranked to D
While this may seem outclassed by sticky web setters such as Smeargle and Shuckle, Galvantula has some nice niches going for it, that'd make it D-rank worthy. First of all, is its blazing Speed, base 108 hits a nice speed tier above a common Taunt user, Yveltal. Outspeeding Yveltal means that not even a Flinch can prevent Sticky Web from getting set. Another niche it has, is its ability to 2HKO Mega Sableye with Electro Ball (252 SpA Galvantula Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sableye-Mega: 177-208 (58.4 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), although this moveslot is optional and replaceable, it still is a nice feature. Another benefit it has is beating SubTaunt Mega Gengar, without risking anything, or making sick plays, you also don't have to know about the opponent's moveset and unlike Shuckle, which just sets Sticky Web, and dies, without dealing damage to Mega Gengar, Galvantula can rack up on it pretty easily.
Darkrai C- to D
Darkrai is utter garbage. I tried it out with Donno few days ago, and man this mon sucks. In the ~15 games me and Donno have used it, it hasn't put in ANY work. Most it did was revenge kill 1 thing, only to be revenge killed by Extreme Speed or a Choice Scarf user afterwards. Just put it at D already, as its only saving grace would be to have some sort of use as a Hypnosis + Nasty Plot sweeper, kinda like Lunala.
Slowbro-Mega D to Unranked
I don't even know why this is ranked. Support Arceus forms utterly outclass it. I wouldn't even use this thing over a support Arceus form, even if I had a free mega slot, because I like my walls with a good Speed stat. It's only niche over them is hard checking Mega Lucario, which doesn't have any usage in Anything Goes to begin with.
Kartana C- to C/C+
Kartana has been seeing more and more use lately. The only support it requires, is Sticky Web. It doesn't ask for any other support, because it simply doesn't need anything else. This thing can tear teams apart in an instant, if you're unprepared. Most of the time, it doesn't even need a Swords Dance boost, because Beast Boost is enough to get it going. It's Special Defense stat, is somewhat of a con, but doesn't really hold it back.
While this may seem outclassed by sticky web setters such as Smeargle and Shuckle, Galvantula has some nice niches going for it, that'd make it D-rank worthy. First of all, is its blazing Speed, base 108 hits a nice speed tier above a common Taunt user, Yveltal. Outspeeding Yveltal means that not even a Flinch can prevent Sticky Web from getting set. Another niche it has, is its ability to 2HKO Mega Sableye with Electro Ball (252 SpA Galvantula Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Sableye-Mega: 177-208 (58.4 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), although this moveslot is optional and replaceable, it still is a nice feature. Another benefit it has is beating SubTaunt Mega Gengar, without risking anything, or making sick plays, you also don't have to know about the opponent's moveset and unlike Shuckle, which just sets Sticky Web, and dies, without dealing damage to Mega Gengar, Galvantula can rack up on it pretty easily.
Darkrai is utter garbage. I tried it out with Donno few days ago, and man this mon sucks. In the ~15 games me and Donno have used it, it hasn't put in ANY work. Most it did was revenge kill 1 thing, only to be revenge killed by Extreme Speed or a Choice Scarf user afterwards. Just put it at D already, as its only saving grace would be to have some sort of use as a Hypnosis + Nasty Plot sweeper, kinda like Lunala.
I don't even know why this is ranked. Support Arceus forms utterly outclass it. I wouldn't even use this thing over a support Arceus form, even if I had a free mega slot, because I like my walls with a good Speed stat. It's only niche over them is hard checking Mega Lucario, which doesn't have any usage in Anything Goes to begin with.
Kartana has been seeing more and more use lately. The only support it requires, is Sticky Web. It doesn't ask for any other support, because it simply doesn't need anything else. This thing can tear teams apart in an instant, if you're unprepared. Most of the time, it doesn't even need a Swords Dance boost, because Beast Boost is enough to get it going. It's Special Defense stat, is somewhat of a con, but doesn't really hold it back.
I hate to be that whiny little kid always pestering "why" but if you wouldn't mind going into a little more detail that'd be great. Honestly, doesn't matter how respectful it is, I'm not some sort of special snowflake bubble-wrapped kid, I'm not going to run off crying because I took a reply personally, just rip into it as hard as you feel like.
To briefly reiterate the nom I believe that being able to flat trade a non-essential Pokemon, Silvally, for an integral Pokemon, such as a CM Arc sweeper, Pdon, Ho-Oh, whatever, leaves one player with an advantage over the other. It also zeroes out momentum as both players resume play from essentially square one. Silvally facilitates this type of play and, for that, I believe it should be recognized.
Once again, don't bother trying to be nice about it, I honestly couldn't care less how nice you are about it, I would just appreciate an actual response. ik it's trash, but I believe it has some merit to it.
Maybe if you put some replays of it actually working, that'd be great. This just seems like some random meme, It's outclassed by both Landorus-T and Genesect as Explosion user. Even though they're both weaker, they have better other uses. I feel like you're overrating Explosion, as it's merely 1 move that gets stopped by a single Steel, Rock or Ghost type, and other than my Tapu Lele Offense, which is frailer than the average LC team, I can't think of any team without one of those 3 types to just switch in, and destroy the entire purpose of Silvally, it isn't like you can switch out after you exploded, because Silvally's Explosion is single-use.
Offering a flat trade is not a reason to rank a mon. Otherwise we'd rank FEAR mons and other dumb low ladder garbage. Tell me how this differs from a FEAR mon? At least FEAR is somewhat reliable given a certain condition (hazards off the field). Also, as Thimo stated, it's stopped by types that each team usually has one or two of. The thing is, who would keep a Ho-Oh or Primal Groudon (even tho it only OHKOs regular, fix your calcs) in on a Silvally?
This is a gimmick, it will work once (at best) against a player before they realise how dumb it is and never keep an unresisted mon in ever again.
No serious team will ever use this.
No serious player will ever use this.
No serious viability ranking will ever rank this.
Edit: Also just read your argument again. "non-essential Pokemon, Silvally, for an integral Pokemon" is a flawed argument. That wouldn't be the case if you were running a viable Pokemon instead.
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Nomming Xerneas from A- to A
Why go back up? You may ask. Well, I feel that when it got deranked, from A+ to A-, people underestimated it too much, giving arguments like "Magearna walls every set", while that is true (for the most part) I still feel it is a huge threat. Every team, absolutely needs to prepare for it. Wether it's GeoXern, Z-GeoXern or some other set like Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb or Choice Band. This amount of sets gives it huge versatility. Every Xerneas must be scouted, before it is countered properly. Even though you can assume Geomancy and Moonblast to be on most sets. The other moves are always a toss-up. Magearna has to be the closest thing to a Xerneas counter, but even Magearna has its flaws. Magearna is easily chipped down to low health. Just make sure it is in KO range for Xerneas, and it's dealt with.
Why go back up? You may ask. Well, I feel that when it got deranked, from A+ to A-, people underestimated it too much, giving arguments like "Magearna walls every set", while that is true (for the most part) I still feel it is a huge threat. Every team, absolutely needs to prepare for it. Wether it's GeoXern, Z-GeoXern or some other set like Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb or Choice Band. This amount of sets gives it huge versatility. Every Xerneas must be scouted, before it is countered properly. Even though you can assume Geomancy and Moonblast to be on most sets. The other moves are always a toss-up. Magearna has to be the closest thing to a Xerneas counter, but even Magearna has its flaws. Magearna is easily chipped down to low health. Just make sure it is in KO range for Xerneas, and it's dealt with.
Completely agree. Xerneas has been missused recently in that players are either setting up their Geomancy too early (in which case a phaser like specially defensive Groudon-P can come in and cripple Xerneas for the rest of the match) or before Xerns checks have been weakened (like having SR on the field). Using Xerneas properly requires a bit more finesse than I think a lot of players give it credit for.Nomming Xerneas from A- to A
Why go back up? You may ask. Well, I feel that when it got deranked, from A+ to A-, people underestimated it too much, giving arguments like "Magearna walls every set", while that is true (for the most part) I still feel it is a huge threat. Every team, absolutely needs to prepare for it. Wether it's GeoXern, Z-GeoXern or some other set like Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb or Choice Band. This amount of sets gives it huge versatility. Every Xerneas must be scouted, before it is countered properly. Even though you can assume Geomancy and Moonblast to be on most sets. The other moves are always a toss-up. Magearna has to be the closest thing to a Xerneas counter, but even Magearna has its flaws. Magearna is easily chipped down to low health. Just make sure it is in KO range for Xerneas, and it's dealt with.
One thing that I didn't think you went into is that Xerneas baits out its checks and counters, in that people will send in their Groudon-P or Arceus-Steel, potentially giving away their set.
Also, Xerneas has access to Aromatherapy, which is a very rare and appreciated move in Anything Goes.
Nomming Xerneas from A- to A
Why go back up? You may ask. Well, I feel that when it got deranked, from A+ to A-, people underestimated it too much, giving arguments like "Magearna walls every set", while that is true (for the most part) I still feel it is a huge threat. Every team, absolutely needs to prepare for it. Wether it's GeoXern, Z-GeoXern or some other set like Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb or Choice Band. This amount of sets gives it huge versatility. Every Xerneas must be scouted, before it is countered properly. Even though you can assume Geomancy and Moonblast to be on most sets. The other moves are always a toss-up. Magearna has to be the closest thing to a Xerneas counter, but even Magearna has its flaws. Magearna is easily chipped down to low health. Just make sure it is in KO range for Xerneas, and it's dealt with.
I'll have to oppose this one. Agreed that Xern still has a lot of sets, but you still wouldn't look at one particular set with the same approval as it got in gen 6. While I understand that need not be a benchmark for its current viability, there are far too many factors to hinder it. The meta is loaded with Xerneas checks to the extent that you don't really have to 'pack one', you just find yourself dealing with Xerneas by using some of the most viable mons in the game. Most of these mons aren't solely Xern checks either; Primal Groudon, Magearna, Solgaleo, Chansey, Blissey, Ho oh, Clefable etc are very viable aside from checking Xern, whereas Poisonceus, Fireceus, Aegislash (sorry for even mentioning this, but it's true), Amoonguss, Shedinja, Mega Scizor, Megagross etc can be packed specifically with the purpose of countering Xern. Not to mention, the bunch of mons that can check Xerneas on the absence of a move or two like Ferrothorn (if hp ground is user over fmiss), Steelceus (if xern isn't ev'd to tank judgment or hp ground > fmiss), scarf Jirachi (in case it creeps Xern), Celesteela (no thunder xern) etc. I mean sure, Xerneas could pack specs or band and surprise some of these mons, or could set up on pseudo-hazers with ingrain geo, and that's why it still is A- rank. But you just couldn't point out to one Xerneas set with 4 definite moves which beats even half of its checks. There's just so much the meta can do to deal with Xern now, and its previous ability to use scarf xern for some very exclusive perks is gone. I'm not saying it needs to drop, but there just hasn't been anything spectacular recently which inspires a jump. It has dropped quite a lot in usage, and if it ever gains the usage back, its checks will come back and hinder its success again. It just seems like a very A- mon, and I think a push is severely undeserved at this point of time.
Every check or counter you listed. Lose to multiple Xerneas sets and coverage moves. Most of them (Pretty much every viable one), can't handle being at a lower HP, than full. Forcing them to use recovery every time it comes in. This leaves huge gaps and setup / glass cannoning opportunities for teammates, such as Rayquaza. The Banded set for example, simply removes any Pokémon from their side, if it comes in on say, Soft-Boiled from Blissey, or a Protect from Clefable. Don't forget they cannot remove their Xerneas check, or else that will sweep. The free switches Xerneas can give is yet another reason why I think it should be A rank
first of all, those are gen 6 usage stats lol. Xerneas not boasting enough speed is just you being dumb and not investing any. Sure Geomancy needs setup which quote unquote allows it to be simply killed, phazed out, heart swapped on, or even Psyched up on. Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Swords Dance Arceus can be "simply killed, phazed out, heart swapped on, or even Psyched up on." I think you don't get the full purpose of a setup mon. You setup when you see gaps, not when you know you're just gonna get killed... As response to your "once your power herb or Z-crystal is used up, you will almost never use it again" No fucking shit mate, they are meant to be single use items.. As response to your last "argument", what fucking risk is there in putting Xerneas on your team, like I honestly feel like you your little brother was writing this.
The following rank changes have occurred.
Please continue to discuss any ranks you may believe are misplacements or inaccurate, thank you. :)
Code:
Arceus-Fire - D to C-
Cloyster - Unranked to C-
Darkrai - C- to D
Dugtrio - Unranked to D
Ferrothorn - B+ to A-
Galvantula - Unranked to D
Gyarados-Mega - D to C-
Kartana - C- to C
Mawile-Mega - Unranked to D
Metagross-Mega - Unranked to C-
Muk-Alola - C+ to B-
Sableye-Mega - B to B+
Salamence-Mega - B to C+
Shedinja - D to Unranked
Slowbro-Mega - D to Unranked
Tapu Koko - Unranked to D
Terrakion - Unranked to D
Vivillon - Unranked to D
Whimsicott - D to UnrankedPlease continue to discuss any ranks you may believe are misplacements or inaccurate, thank you. :)
I understand the others, but... Vivillion? What? Is that an inside joke from the chatroom or something? I can't possibly imagine a niche for it.
Consider Darkrai from last gen, with a 98% accuracy sleep move, a better setup move and a better STAB. Unfortunately, its speed tier is a massive issue for it, which is why it relies on Sticky Web to start setting up usually, but that's what it's D-rank and that's why it is not anything higher. Overall it's a decent Pokemon and it fits the rank of D perfectly. It is quite viable, and a mon I'd suggest you try. Still 10x more viable than Specs Deoxys-Attack though. That's a mon I can't possibly imagine a niche for.
Nominating Volbeat for D rank
Access to prankster setup, in addition to encore makes it a nice stat passing mon on offensive teams. As seen in the replays below, it is a reliable strategy in AG. I feel it has increased in viability from last gen, as it gained access to infestation. In comparision, no other pokemon can perform the role that Volbeat does. There are two viable variations of the set:-
Volbeat @ Normalium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Infestation
OR the set carried over from last gen :-
Volbeat @ Normalium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Psych Up
The psych up variation of the set allows it to psych up Xerneas' boosts, with the spread letting it live a moon blast after rocks. However, the infestation variation lets you trap any setup bait, such as Shuckle. Normalium Z gives access to Z-encore, which lets you pass +1 speed along with your Tail Glow boosts.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-577725502 VS Catalystic
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-578530596 VS Lotiasite
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-579846695 VS Purple Gatorade
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-582660425 VS Fardin
Access to prankster setup, in addition to encore makes it a nice stat passing mon on offensive teams. As seen in the replays below, it is a reliable strategy in AG. I feel it has increased in viability from last gen, as it gained access to infestation. In comparision, no other pokemon can perform the role that Volbeat does. There are two viable variations of the set:-
Volbeat @ Normalium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Infestation
OR the set carried over from last gen :-
Volbeat @ Normalium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Psych Up
The psych up variation of the set allows it to psych up Xerneas' boosts, with the spread letting it live a moon blast after rocks. However, the infestation variation lets you trap any setup bait, such as Shuckle. Normalium Z gives access to Z-encore, which lets you pass +1 speed along with your Tail Glow boosts.
Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-577725502 VS Catalystic
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-578530596 VS Lotiasite
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-579846695 VS Purple Gatorade
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-582660425 VS Fardin
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you also forgot to mention it received +20 base defense and +10 base special defense
Time to try and revive this thread for a bit. Nomming Arceus-Poison (Poisonceus) from B- to B.
We all know what Arceus and its forms can do, so I won't be focusing on the obivous as much. I know it's not much of a jump, but it deserves to be at B rank for the sole reason of countering Fairies and BP as a whole, which (to me) seems like it's becoming more and more used/encountered on ladder. The fact that you can run Perish Song on any arc form is dangerous enough to BP, but coupled with Poison typing, Sylveon and Mr. Mime can't really switch in on it either. Xerneas sets don't carry Psychic/Psyshock anymore if at all, and HP Ground isn't common in AG, opting for better coverage. This means Poisonceus could essentially become prevalent this Gen, being a better check to most mons unlike Magearna. I've also seen a few other users, namely PurpleGatorade and FardinAG implement Poisonceus on some of their teams, and faring well in their matches. Other than a few typings/mons, Poisonceus can also hit the majority of the meta for Super effective or Neutral damage, making it more than just a niche mon.
I've got a few sets and Replays that I'll try to post later to back this nomination up.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-584032338
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-584030256
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-583093259
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-580778757
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-577657754
Edit: Got some replays now. These mainly showcase the team against BP and Psychic mons/well known AG players and against playstyle matchups. Perish Song isn't a "one-time gimmick" if it's used properly, not to mention there's 8 times you can use it, which is besides the point. Having a Perish Song Poisonceus also saves a slot for Mega Gengar, if they run Perish Song on Gengar of course. The mons that counter Poisonceus can also be covered by obviously running coverage moves and team member that work well with it, or check the majority of the meta.
Now some banter between Thimsy and I. Need I say more to support this nom?:
[04:25:48] eThimo: poisonceus is versatile
[04:25:51] Synoptic ❤: It is
[04:25:52] eThimo: af
We all know what Arceus and its forms can do, so I won't be focusing on the obivous as much. I know it's not much of a jump, but it deserves to be at B rank for the sole reason of countering Fairies and BP as a whole, which (to me) seems like it's becoming more and more used/encountered on ladder. The fact that you can run Perish Song on any arc form is dangerous enough to BP, but coupled with Poison typing, Sylveon and Mr. Mime can't really switch in on it either. Xerneas sets don't carry Psychic/Psyshock anymore if at all, and HP Ground isn't common in AG, opting for better coverage. This means Poisonceus could essentially become prevalent this Gen, being a better check to most mons unlike Magearna. I've also seen a few other users, namely PurpleGatorade and FardinAG implement Poisonceus on some of their teams, and faring well in their matches. Other than a few typings/mons, Poisonceus can also hit the majority of the meta for Super effective or Neutral damage, making it more than just a niche mon.
I've got a few sets and Replays that I'll try to post later to back this nomination up.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-584032338
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-584030256
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-583093259
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-580778757
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-577657754
Edit: Got some replays now. These mainly showcase the team against BP and Psychic mons/well known AG players and against playstyle matchups. Perish Song isn't a "one-time gimmick" if it's used properly, not to mention there's 8 times you can use it, which is besides the point. Having a Perish Song Poisonceus also saves a slot for Mega Gengar, if they run Perish Song on Gengar of course. The mons that counter Poisonceus can also be covered by obviously running coverage moves and team member that work well with it, or check the majority of the meta.
Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate Ability: Multitype EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 156 SpD / 96 Spe Jolly Nature - Poison Jab - Stealth Rock - Will-O-Wisp - Recover
Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate Ability: Multitype EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 164 SpD / 88 Spe Careful Nature - Poison Jab - Stealth Rock - Will-O-Wisp - Recover
Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate Ability: Multitype EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Sludge Bomb - Psych Up - Recover - Earth Power
Here are some sets for Poisonceus, s/o Thimo for helping me with them. Perish Song or whatever move else can be stuck where you want it. The set EVs are pretty easy to recognize, speed EVs to creep Ray an outspeed base 99s, with 8 SpD to live a Psyshock from GeoXern after rocks.Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate Ability: Multitype EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 164 SpD / 88 Spe Careful Nature - Poison Jab - Stealth Rock - Will-O-Wisp - Recover
Arceus-Poison @ Toxic Plate Ability: Multitype EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Sludge Bomb - Psych Up - Recover - Earth Power
Now some banter between Thimsy and I. Need I say more to support this nom?:
[04:25:48] eThimo: poisonceus is versatile
[04:25:51] Synoptic ❤: It is
[04:25:52] eThimo: af
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I have disagree with this. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that Arc-Poison "counters" BP because of the glaring weakness to Stored Power. Essentially, you have a one-time gimmick that can only force 50/50s afterwards, with Judgment/Perish Song vs Switch-In/Stored Power. Outside of that, the countering Fairy-types isn't that amazing. There are only five Fairy-types are relevant in AG (Xerneas, Clefable, Tapu Lele, Magearna, Arceus-Fairy) and Arceus-Poison only truly beats three of them (Xerneas, Clefable, Arceus-Fairy). Additionally, it's weak matchups versus Groudon-Primal, Rayquaza-Mega EQ, Zygarde-Complete, Arceus-Steel, and SD EQ Arceus, all incredibly present in AG, do nothing to help it's case. Maybe some replays would change my opinion on this, but as of right now I have to disagree.
On this note, I'd actually like to nominate Tapu Lele from C+ to B-/B. We know the support Psychic Terrain gives to Deoxys-Attack and Mewtwo and have all lost to the ugly offense squad Thimo made at one point or another. I'd also like to mention the defensive support that Psychic Terrain gives, namely protecting grounded defensive mon's, like PhysDef Arceus, from E-killer's strongest attack.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus: 207-243 (46.6 - 54.7%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs
This means that your PhysDef Arceus can Recover off damage while allowing Life Orb to put E-Killer in range of Judgment. Additionally, Choice Scarf Tapu Lele acts as an excellent revenge killer against nearly everything, can't be revenge-killed itself outside of faster Scarfers, and between it's STABs, can afford to run coverage that it needs to hit whatever Steel-types you want. Also, Tapu Lele is a bitch to switch-into. Any sort of chip damage can spell certain death for support Arceus forms, since Scarf Lele outspeeds.
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy in Psychic Terrain: 190-225 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
Between the defensive and offensive support, as well as the offensive pressure that only Tapu Lele can provide a team, I nominate Tapu Lele from C+ to B.
Big noms around high ranks:
Xerneas A- to A
I am nomming this yet again. You all seem to sleep on the powers of Xerneas in the tier, and how much it affects it and what not. There's 0 reliable switch ins to this thing, people are required at least 2 Xerneas checks on their team due to how scary its coverage is. Not even Rayquaza requires 2 checks, because every ekiller will scare it out. I think Xerneas is underexplored on the council's part of this spectrum. I don't think any of you ever use it, except Megazard with Specs sometimes. That's how kinda diminishing it is. I want you all to try various sets to rethink your previous decision before you straight up deny the nom again.
Yveltal A+ to A
I'd say Yveltal does a bit too little to be A+, It doesn't have much versatility as more often than not they're either Offensive or Life Orb. Other non-standard sets like Specs and Scarf share the same coverage, and are easier to switch in to, simply because it's coverage isn't the best. Dark Pulse sure is strong, but if every supportceus that hits more than 326 speed walls it. It kinda loses it's purpose. If there's 1 hard wall it can't touch, it kinda is useless the whole game because it can't really wallbreak much. Against offensive teams, it's too slow. It comes short 3 speed points for Adamant Ray and most Offense teams have a Calm Mind Arceus somewhere. It's Defensive set is useless agaisnt bulkier teams, but nice against offense, however as I stated earlier. With Calm Mind Arceus forms it isn't really doing much. It requires a lot of team support to get around these problems. While it is still a good pokémon I think A+ is a little too much for it.
Xerneas A- to A
I am nomming this yet again. You all seem to sleep on the powers of Xerneas in the tier, and how much it affects it and what not. There's 0 reliable switch ins to this thing, people are required at least 2 Xerneas checks on their team due to how scary its coverage is. Not even Rayquaza requires 2 checks, because every ekiller will scare it out. I think Xerneas is underexplored on the council's part of this spectrum. I don't think any of you ever use it, except Megazard with Specs sometimes. That's how kinda diminishing it is. I want you all to try various sets to rethink your previous decision before you straight up deny the nom again.
Yveltal A+ to A
I'd say Yveltal does a bit too little to be A+, It doesn't have much versatility as more often than not they're either Offensive or Life Orb. Other non-standard sets like Specs and Scarf share the same coverage, and are easier to switch in to, simply because it's coverage isn't the best. Dark Pulse sure is strong, but if every supportceus that hits more than 326 speed walls it. It kinda loses it's purpose. If there's 1 hard wall it can't touch, it kinda is useless the whole game because it can't really wallbreak much. Against offensive teams, it's too slow. It comes short 3 speed points for Adamant Ray and most Offense teams have a Calm Mind Arceus somewhere. It's Defensive set is useless agaisnt bulkier teams, but nice against offense, however as I stated earlier. With Calm Mind Arceus forms it isn't really doing much. It requires a lot of team support to get around these problems. While it is still a good pokémon I think A+ is a little too much for it.