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Metagame USM Ubers Metagame & Sets Discussion (Check Post #107)

Anyone else think both Whirlwind and Dragon Tail are good idea on Lugia? I mean, having Ice Beam to kill Mence and stuff are cool, but D-tail is probably just as fine, especially with Goth and Taunt users and stuff, you can still clutch phaze things. If people decide they want to use Sub to bypass you, you still have Whirlwind.
 
I feel that the addition to Dragon Tail on Whirlwind Lugia sets would do it some good overall, and I feel it's gonna be the way to go going forward, but keep in mind that when you forego Ice Beam, (and yeah this situation is well...situational) that SubDD Mega Mence would be able to win the 1v1 when it's the last mon standing, as Dragon Tail can't break then sub even when you're running an Impish nature over Bold. Then again, this applies to last mon GeoXern even if you have Ice Beam, so this doesn't really matter.

Still waiting for Whirlpool Multiscale Lugia to drop on PS >:[

Anyways, here's another set that I've been playing around with on my current hyper offense build:

necrozma_dusk_mane_by_tomycase-dbbywrt.png


Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 148 HP / 132 Atk / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Autotomize
- Sunsteel Strike
- Photon Geyser

This has been surprisingly successful for me. Colbur Berry is, what I feel, one of the best items you can give to a double dance Dusk Mane, as it shields it from the likes of Yveltal, which is everywhere in the meta right, and allows you to lure and OHKO Ygod after a boost. Your only troublesome Yveltal matchup is defensive w/ both Foul Play and Sucker Punch, but that set is kind of rare, at least from my experience on high ladder so far. I thought the poor coverage was going to hold this set back, but for what I want it to do for my current HO build - just smash things either as fast or as hard as it possibly can, or both - it's been working well. The speed is to outpace +1 212 Adamant Mega Salamence after an Autotomize. The bulk and attack investment, along with Colbur Berry and Prism Armor, allows for this to happen at +2:

+2 0- Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 148 HP / 0 Def Colbur Berry Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 295-347 (79.3 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

or these calcs vs Life Orb Yveltal:

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 158-187 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 148 HP / 0 SpD Colbur Berry Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 174-206 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO

Unfortunately, Photon Geyser did get fixed on Showdown, which means Zygarde and physdef friends are able to stomach Photon Geyser a lot easier at +2, but it's still really strong regardless.
 
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I dont feel like these ones will be viable at all in a tier like Ubers, but anyway dumping in for noobs like me who enjoy playin fun sets.

stakataka.gif

THE TING GO... (Stakataka) @ Rockium Z / Groundium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake / Superpower
- Magnet Rise / Superpower

Been having actually decent success with this on my tr team (which ill probably do a RMT on later) so far, interestingly. I think stakataka is definitely the worst new mon we've got, unspecial movepool, bad typing and speed. However when i figured out you can get its attack boosted by Beast Boost with IVing its defense low enough, i gave it a go on Trick Room. Having base 13 speed you'll hit most of the meta off base 131 attack with base 150 stab Gyro Balls, so after a kill or two not much stops this. Stone Edge is your secondary stab and pretty much the only option since stakataka's movepool is really shallow. Also unlike most trick room sweepers this thing can actually hold its own if trick room runs out since it has nice bulk at 61/211/101 and magnet rise makes this strong af late game since pdons and groundceus will be sitting ducks against you. Biggest threats are zygarde, steela (if ur not z edge), ferro (if ur not z superpower), special attackers and marsh when tr runs out. You can run superpower with magnet rise but i feel like eq with z is better since rock/steel stabs are still bad coverage and z eq is still mad strong at +1.

Calcs:

252+ Atk Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Arceus-Ground: 220-261 (49.5 - 58.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Stakataka Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 286-338 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- dies after gyro ball and rocks
252+ Atk Stakataka All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 362-428 (102.8 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Stakataka Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 397-468 (99.7 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Stakataka Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 430-506 (106.6 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Stakataka Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 348-410 (114.4 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Stakataka Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 343-405 (86.1 - 101.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


necrozma-duskmane.gif

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Sunsteel Strike
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake

Hands down the best new trick room setter. Dusk mane has incredible bulk and typing combined with a great ability like Prism Armor to set Trick Room multiple times throughout the game. Swords dance lets you become immediately threatening without the risk of losing rocks to a defogger etc. Eq is obviously for opposing dusk manes and pdon. There are probably better sets for this like a more support oriented one with lefties+moonlight but this one has put in decent work for me so far.

I feel like trick room is really cool rn, let me know what you guys think :)
 
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

I know this set has obviously been covered, but I just want to reiterate how good it is, and personally I feel this will be standard when the meta settles. Being able to take advantage of its abilities before and after burst and also its huge typing change that involves flipping weaknesses and resists on its head is truly excellent. It does suffer some coverage issues in that it can't break everything if it doesn't have the right move, but Heat Wave and Knock off can be mixed around with the coverage moves as the user sees fit with their team. The only really cover all switch into to this mon I can think of is Darkceus who's fairly exploitable in this meta. This, on top of the fact that you even can't be certain as if it's even ultra or not and the fact that calm mind isn't too bad either makes this mon very unpredictable indeed. Also its speed tier is excellent and if you haven't bursted yet you can even play mind games with Marshadow.
 
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FYI that now that Naganadel is banned from OU, the Ubers tier should probably prepare for the entry of a new Pokemon. Steel-types like Dialga and ground types like Groudon will probably destroy this thing.
 
jdcomix said:
FYI that now that Naganadel is banned from OU, the Ubers tier should probably prepare for the entry of a new Pokemon. Steel-types like Dialga and ground types like Groudon will probably destroy this thing.
Click to expand...
That’s not how tiers works. Naganadel was usable in Ubers even before its ban.
 
jdcomix said:
I know, I'm just saying that usage will probably increase now that it's officially banned.
Click to expand...

Being banned has no influence on whether it will be used more or not. It’s only a matter of whether it will be good enough in the actual tier.

I mean, Alolan Muk is used more frequently in Ubers than in OU, for example. So, I don’t think being banned in OU will have much influence in it raising or not raising in usage.

If we wanna talk about that bee’s performance in this tier… I think it may be a decent check for Xerneas and the plethora of Dragon-types, but I can’t say for sure.
 
252 SpA Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 282-332 (68.6 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Naganadel: 295-348 (102.7 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Naganadel: 589-694 (205.2 - 241.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Not a check
 
Naganadel is more suited to being a weapon against fat teams with the same set it used in OU (NP/Sludge Wave/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast @ Dragonium Z). It doesn't have the bulk to switch into most things but it can leverage its immunity to Poison to set up against defensive mons such as Toxapex and Chansey with impunity, and it can survive one hit from support Arceus barring SE Judgment if it needs to. It can also use its STAB coverage and Speed to force switches since its conveniently just faster than Arceus, and is quite strong after a Nasty Plot (+2 Z-Draco Meteor OHKOes Ho-Oh, for instance) though it is somewhat weak against neutral targets if it can't set up. Defensively its best check is probably support Dusk Mane Necrozma, which tanks +2 Fire Blast with ease and has a decent chance to OHKO after SR with Sunsteel Strike.

You can potentially make Choice Specs work with U-turn but having to pick between choiced Poison and Dragon in Ubers is somewhat uncomfortable...LO 3 Attacks + U-turn might be better in this regard. Naganadel's main strength offensively lies in its ability to demolish the traditional answers to Dragons with STAB Poison and Fire Blast, and being faster than Arceus is a great asset.
 
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Fireburn said:
Naganadel is more suited to being a weapon against fat teams with the same set it used in OU (NP/Sludge Wave/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast @ Dragonium Z). It doesn't have the bulk to switch into most things but it can leverage its immunity to Poison to set up against defensive mons such as Toxapex and Chansey with impunity, and it can survive one hit from support Arceus barring SE Judgment if it needs to. It can also use its STAB coverage and Speed to force switches since its conveniently just faster than Arceus, and is quite strong after a Nasty Plot (+2 Z-Draco Meteor OHKOes Ho-Oh, for instance) though it is somewhat weak against neutral targets if it can't set up. Defensively its best check is probably support Dusk Mane Necrozma, which tanks +2 Fire Blast with ease and has a decent chance to OHKO after SR with Sunsteel Strike.

You can potentially make Choice Specs work with U-turn but having to pick between choiced Poison and Dragon in Ubers is somewhat uncomfortable...LO 3 Attacks + U-turn might be better in this regard. Nagamadel's main strength offensively lies in its ability to demolish the traditional answers to Dragons with STAB Poison and Fire Blast, and being faster than Arceus is a great asset.
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+2 252 SpA Naganadel Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 240-283 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

just wanted to note it seems pretty damn good against fat stuff, even necrozma is 2HKO'd so yeah
 
Here's a hyper offense set that really surprised me as of late: DD 3 attacks Mega Salamence.

salamence-mega.gif


Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Facade
- Earthquake

This set can either sweep through teams (and it has for me many times) or break something for another sweeper on your team. Having both Facade AND Earthquake on your set helps Mega Salamence out in more situations than just having one of them on the set at a time. Now this Salamence can dent Magearna (or OHKO at +1 after rocks) and Dusk Mane Necrozma with Earthquake, and/or take advantage of Ho-Oh's status spam with Facade, sometimes in the same game.

I wouldn't use this set outside of hyper offense, though, where the goal is to just smash shit as hard as possible while not trying to lose momentum. Any other play style will want Roost over one of these two move slots.
 
Longtime lurker and Ubers player, want to emphasize how this mon has managed to get even better.
latest

Now, I personally have never liked this pokemon much, but Yveltal's impact on the USUM meta right now is simply undeniable. Yveltal has gotten even better with the relevance of the shiny new toys in the Necrozma formes. Once the meta starts to settle, I can seriously see this thing start to rise. Take this rather default, cookie-cutter offensive set.

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- Taunt
- Sucker Punch

While this is nothing out of the unusual, I have to stress how much better Sucker Punch has become on this set, managing to revenge UNecro incredibly well and nearly guarantee a switch.

Versus the Physical Sweeper UNecro set:
252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 316-374 (94 - 111.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 338-400 (100.5 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I want to focus primarily though on the fact of how well it manages to destroy the Ultra Necrozma physical sweeper set, with not even a 252+ Technician-boosted LO Shadow Sneak from Marshadow being able to guarantee an OHKO.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 281-330 (83.8 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Though Yveltal manages to get screwed over on occasion by Dusk Mane, (see Vengeance417's Colbur Berry set which is surprisingly effective and honestly, hilarious) it manages to force a switch most of the time. This set manages to force a UNecro to switch, and can shut down slower switch-ins or setup sweepers (GeoXern) with Taunt. At the current state of the meta, slower sets are being ran to test out what can be done, and Taunt cripples most of these sets from even starting, some Dusk Mane sets included.
 
pheromosa.png

Pheramosa got a lot of nifty Move Tutor options, Including Drill Run and Throat Chop. These could give it a consistent way to hit M-Gengar.

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Throat Chop vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar-Mega: 283-335 (108.4 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's with Naive, meaning it doesn't even need to run Naughty to OHKO it. Drill Run is the same base power and thus does the same damage, so it's up to whether or not your team needs the dark or ground coverage more. Drill run is notable due to being able to 2HKO Offensive SR Primal Groudon after SR:

252+ Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Drill Run vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 174-205 (45.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

However, this set requires a Naughty nature. Naive relies on a roll, being an 82% chance to 2HKO after SR. It also got Bounce, Outrage, Electroweb, and Shock wave but these are less notable.
 
I've been playing around with trick room Stakataka and it's pretty good this gen, if your opponent doesn't play his switches at exactly the right times you can easily pull off a win. Here are some mons I've been using that do well under trick room:

carbink.gif

Carbink @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Explosion
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat

This is a simple TR lead set. 99% of the time you'll be clicking TR turn 1 and explosion turn 2, but there's no point in having only 2 moves on a set.


bronzong.gif

Bronzong @ Leftovers / Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Explosion
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball / Reflect
- Toxic / Light Screen
Bronzong is unique in that it not only does it set (and benefit) from TR, it can also function as an emergency Xerneas check. It also has the bulk to set up screens if you want, but like with Carbink the primary use of this mon is setting up TR and exploding as soon as possible.


groudon-primal.gif

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Fire Blast

Eruption Pdon under TR is an absolute nuke and is essentially a guaranteed OHKO on everything that doesn't resist it (or damages it first). Earth Power is secondary STAB (although you could run Pblades if you prefer), HP ice nails Mega Mence and Zygarde-100, and Fire Blast hits for a consistent amount of damage if your HP is low.
 
Trickroom will be happy that Gyarados is good right now

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Crunch
- Waterfall / Earthquake

Strong check to both Dusk Mane and Ultra Necro. Marshadow has mind-game whether to Close Combat or Spectral Thief you, You can tank a Ygod attack (especially Scarf), and Fairyceus is not as popular any more since Dusk Mane is everywhere and Goth still threatens to own it. Taunt shuts down walls and Defog. You can even be a temporarily PDon switch-in if you really want one. Downside is that ScarfXern is more common now, but Gyarados seems to have gotten more tools to work with in USUM.
 
SR + SD Dusk Mane

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 124 HP / 132 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake

Functions similarly to SR + SD pdon in that its compresses hazard setting and wallbreaking duties- however i think it's much better than pdon at doing this thanks to its toxic immunity, its bulk with prism armor, and ability to hold z-moves to evaporate defoggers. It can easily setup rocks after coming into a support mon/fairy, and potentially sd on a defog before ohkoing the defogger, or lure and ohko scarf yveltal. Thanks to its amazing bulk with prism armor, it can also survive a hit to get sr down after smashing a physical wall.

EV spread similar to the one Vengeance417 posted- attack investment allows the ohko on scarf yveltal with z-move/+2 sunsteel/2 sunsteels while low enough that foul play cannot ohko. Max speed cause no reason not to especially since it doesn't run rp/auto and most defensive yveltals don't run enough creep to outspeed 252, and rest of evs go into hp for bulk.

It's especially good when paired with a sweeper which can take advantage of defoggers and walls such as yveltal, groundceus, giratina-o and lugia being taken out, such as double dance groudon.

A few calcs:

+2 132+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Lugia: 490-577 (117.7 - 138.7%) (rip multiscale)
+2 132+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Arceus-Ground: 619-729 (139.4 - 164.1%)
+2 132+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Giratina-Origin: 604-712 (136.9 - 161.4%)
+2 132+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Giratina: 504-594 (100 - 117.8%)
+2 132+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 570-672 (125 - 147.3%)
132+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 399-471 (101.5 - 119.8%)

0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 124 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 211-249 (57.6 - 68%)
Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 294-348 (80.3 - 95%)
 
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New set for Giratina-O

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Dragon Claw
- Shadow Force
- Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail / Defog

Iron Head, the best addition to Giratina in USUM. It makes it so that Xerneas, Arceus Fairy and Diancie will be more cautious around this mon. Dragon Claw for STAB and super-effectiveness against around half the tier. Shadow Force for insane damage and for ignoring and countering Aegislash. Shadow Sneak for priority, Dragon Tail for sweepers and Defog for Rocks, Sticky Web and Spikes.

Some Calcs:
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Iron Head vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 190-224 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 256-304 (106.2 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar-Mega: 164-194 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Shadow Force vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 222-262 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
TayyibZ said:
New set for Giratina-O

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Dragon Claw
- Shadow Force
- Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail / Defog

Iron Head, the best addition to Giratina in USUM. It makes it so that Xerneas, Arceus Fairy and Diancie will be more cautious around this mon. Dragon Claw for STAB and super-effectiveness against around half the tier. Shadow Force for insane damage and for ignoring and countering Aegislash. Shadow Sneak for priority, Dragon Tail for sweepers and Defog for Rocks, Sticky Web and Spikes.

Some Calcs:
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Iron Head vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 190-224 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 256-304 (106.2 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar-Mega: 164-194 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Shadow Force vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Kyogre-Primal: 222-262 (57.5 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Giratina-O can learn Iron Head prior to S&M. But then back in ORAS, Iron Tail was the option on the physical set to lure and strike Fairy types. Never invest EVs in HP, you need 252EVs in Def which is necessary to evade crucial KOs from physical threats that Giratina-O supposed to check such as +2 Adamant LO E-Killer for example.
 
Iron Tail/Iron Head is terrible on Giratina-O. First of all you don't even outspeed the opposing Xerneas with your set which makes it impossible to kill it. Another reason why you shouldn't use it is that Shadow Force is literally stronger than Iron Tail/Iron Head. I will put some calcs for you in my post. Lastly you can't even afford to run that move because you usually need that fourth slot for something that provides general support (Defog) while keeping the essentials.

252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Iron Tail vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 238-280 (57.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Giratina-Origin Iron Head vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 190-224 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Shadow Force vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 255-301 (62 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
KrazyKoopa95 said:
What is the difference between investing EVs in Def/Spdef over Hp in Giratina-O and in general?
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It allows you to check Physical attackers better and you can avoid noticeable KOs that you can't if you invested in HP. Eg. A +2 Shadow Claw from LO Adamant E-Killer KOs Giratina-O after rocks (+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 411-486 (81.5 - 96.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) While investing in Def allows you to live (+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Giratina-Origin: 325-385 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
 
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