Unpopular opinions

Lontra Assassina said:
My opinion (which admittedly is only based on vibes) is that the Legends series will be the place for experimental concepts and mechanics so that the devs can flex their creative muscles more without alienating people who want a traditional Pokémon experience. PLA focused a lot on movement for sure (I affectionately call the game a ball pitching simulator), but most of its mechanics were in service to its setting, so I'm not even counting on these to return
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My actual unpopular take is Legends Arceus was never created as a "Sinnoh" game at all, and that in the last half of development they learned the year the game was coming out would = The Year of Sinnoh, + making it a game that takes place at a time when

There wouldn't be much society

Makes for an EXTREMELY convenient reason to only make one town and environmental areas with not much stuff, and not much level design. The setting the game takes place in is extremely convenient to make for the least dev time in crafting the worlds possible. Also, I don't think it's a coincidence that half the areas in the game literally would make sense in basically any region. I think the game was only envisioned as a Sinnoh game when it came time for testing to transition into an actual game-game, and that Sinnoh was a corporate mandate.
 
ant4456 said:
My actual unpopular take is Legends Arceus was never created as a "Sinnoh" game at all, and that in the last half of development they learned the year the game was coming out would = The Year of Sinnoh, + making it a game that takes place at a time when

There wouldn't be much society

Makes for an EXTREMELY convenient reason to only make one town and environmental areas with not much stuff, and not much level design. The setting the game takes place in is extremely convenient to make for the least dev time in crafting the worlds possible. Also, I don't think it's a coincidence that half the areas in the game literally would make sense in basically any region. I think the game was only envisioned as a Sinnoh game when it came time for testing to transition into an actual game-game, and that Sinnoh was a corporate mandate.
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No multi-million dollar game today is gonna get greenlit without a design document and a lenghty pre-production period. We have concept art! We know production started in 2018! There's just zero chance they were just messing around all that time.

Besides, merchandise has to start production way before the game releases, so Pokémon designs are always set in stone in the first year of production
 
Lontra Assassina said:
No multi-million dollar game today is gonna get greenlit without a design document and a lenghty pre-production period. We have concept art! We know production started in 2018! There's just zero chance they were just messing around all that time.

Besides, merchandise has to start production way before the game releases, so Pokémon designs are always set in stone in the first year of production
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Most of this literally doesn't disprove anything because of the nature of Legends Arceus as a project. Literally the fact that almost none of the Pokemon designs that were new are actually Gen 4 Pokemon or are themed in ways that make sense for Sinnoh specifically means that realistically they could have been made beforehand, outside of the Dialga and Palkia Origin forms.

These smaller projects (and Legends is a smaller project) don't have the same release timeline or structure as the mainline games. Legends Arceus wasn't a big merch maker because it wasn't a new generation and only had a few new designs.

Developers fucking around with their game engine and toying with concepts is like one of the most normal things in game development. If you actually think the gigantic shift from the LGPE team to creating Legends Arceus was basically all just planned in one doc from the start is IMO just very unrealistic for how different the game is, and frankly how abnormal it is for a Pokemon game.

Btw, the "fucking around" is literally pre-production. Pre-production includes work on experimenting with the game engine. This isn't a big AAA operation where most of the work and pipeline is creating new assets, Legends Arceus' gametime is LITERALLY 95% GRINDING, the main story campaign is about 4 hours total. This game was worked on for 3 years, if they chose to do Sinnoh halfway through development that "length pre-production" would literally still fit into that perspective. The reason the biggest AAA companies often have game bibles is because their production needs to actually be super strict to head deadlines, there isn't much creative work actually involved in the making of the game, most of the developers are basically the game development equivalent of a conveyor belt, and because the majority of the work of the next Call of Duty from the perspective of $$$ and employees is making new 4K assets for hyper realistic artstyles. Most AA developers, tons of AAA companies still, most games that don't have the assets as one of the bigger parts of it (Legends Arceus isn't one of those games!) do in fact experiment with the gameplay a lot longer before settling on the rest.

Look into basically any AAA project that is not Call of Duty tier formulaic and you will find that they probably did in fact fuck around far before the artistic assets were made, and before the actual gamestyle was settled on.

I just don't think you're going to convince me that Legends Arceus was always conceptually a Sinnoh project.
 
ant4456 said:
My actual unpopular take is Legends Arceus was never created as a "Sinnoh" game at all, and that in the last half of development they learned the year the game was coming out would = The Year of Sinnoh, + making it a game that takes place at a time when

There wouldn't be much society

Makes for an EXTREMELY convenient reason to only make one town and environmental areas with not much stuff, and not much level design. The setting the game takes place in is extremely convenient to make for the least dev time in crafting the worlds possible. Also, I don't think it's a coincidence that half the areas in the game literally would make sense in basically any region. I think the game was only envisioned as a Sinnoh game when it came time for testing to transition into an actual game-game, and that Sinnoh was a corporate mandate.
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I don't think I can agree with this, because you need to assume way too many things in order for it to work. There is just too much Sinnoh focus (sure, there are references to all generations, but the clothing of the Clans, Team Galaxy and even the merchants which are based on Cynthia seem like the most basic things of the settings, just like literally everything concerning spacetime distorsions which are a Sinnoh thing) that wouldn't work if the original plan was not said region, and GF didn't exactly have a schedule to allow radical changes either. The maps being generic are hardly a point since as you say yourself they could work in any region since they are disconnected, but that's exactly why it diesn't mean it was another one of the regions and not Sinnoh. I don't see how all of that would have been done in only the later half of development - the antagonists, the symbology, the very specific ancient Japanese setting that wouldn't work in any of the regions but the first fourth ones. The game is even an isekai which, fittingly for GameFreak's standards, it's the safest way to introduce players to a main game set in the past, and that only really works in Sinnoh and Johto (or with Arceus obviously).

I don't see how no new Pokemon related to Gen 4 is a valid point either, in fact I would argue that's a pount against it- the only non Eevolution mons post gen 4 are all regional forms. That seems completely intentional to me as it's the perfect way to not contradict the Sinnoh games when there isn't really such a big time gap and, more importantly, they made sure to have all the Gen 4 Pokemon avaliable on the game one way or another. The designs also couldn't have been made beforehand and fit into any region, since as I noted previously they all have very important ancient Japanese inspirations. That wouldn't work in anything post-Unova.

But most importantly, I seriously doubt GameFreak of all people initially started a game that diverges so much from what you usually see on the main series without relating it to an already existing region, specially considering it was dropped mid-generation. Specially when BDSP exists and seems way more likely that it only does so because they wanted a safe option to release alongside LA. You would have a way easier time trying to convince me LA was a Sinnoh remake that got so different than they panicked and needed BDSP to feel safe releasing it that making me consider they would create a main series title in a complete new region at the end of a generation with the mechanics it currently has. A spinoff? Sure, but a main series game? Unless you are suggesting it waa based in another existing region not being Sinnoh, in which case...that's really complete speculation that I see no reason to believe, unless it was Johto, and even then I have a hard time seeing why we should think it would be specifically chosen over Sinnoh. You seem to think LA as it is now was a result of the "year of Sinnoh" while I get the reason it was the complete opposite. I don't think that executives wanted LA of all games to fit the role of Sinnoh games most people were expecting to eventually happen. The Indigo Disk being in Unova feels a lot more like corporate mandate to "fill the Unova slot" than LA, because BDSP existed.

I don't buy LA is a much more smaller project either, considering it's developed by Team B. It's a different team from other games sure, but that's the point of alterning teams. The mentioned BDSP is a much more smaller project in scale. LA is still done by GF and meant to ocuppy the yearly slot. And it's a brand new game, unlike the Indigo Disk.
 
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DrrT said:
I don't think I can agree with this, because you need to assume way too many things in order for it to work. There is just too much Sinnoh focus (sure, there are references to all generations, but the clothing of the Clans, Team Galaxy and even the merchants which are based on Cynthia seem like the most basic things of the settings, just like literally everything concerning spacetime distorsions which are a Sinnoh thing) that wouldn't work if the original plan was not said region, and GF didn't exactly have a schedule to allow radical changes either. The maps being generic are hardly a point since as you say yourself they could work in any region since they are disconnected, but that's exactly why it diesn't mean it was another one of the regions and not Sinnoh. I don't see how all of that would have been done in only the later half of development - the antagonists, the symbology, the very specific ancient Japanese setting that wouldn't work in any of the regions but the first fourth ones. The game is even an isekai which, fittingly for GameFreak's standards, it's the safest way to introduce players to a main game set in the past, and that only really works in Sinnoh and Johto (or with Arceus obviously).

I don't see how no new Pokemon related to Gen 4 is a valid point either, in fact I would argue that's a pount against it- the only non Eevolution mons post gen 4 are all regional forms. That seems completely intentional to me as it's the perfect way to not contradict the Sinnoh games when there isn't really such a big time gap and, more importantly, they made sure to have all the Gen 4 Pokemon avaliable on the game one way or another. The designs also couldn't have been made beforehand and fit into any region, since as I noted previously they all have very important ancient Japanese inspirations. That wouldn't work in anything post-Unova.

But most importantly, I seriously doubt GameFreak of all people initially started a game that diverges so much from what you usually see on the main series without relating it to an already existing region, specially considering it was dropped mid-generation. Specially when BDSP exists and seems way more likely that it only does so because they wanted a safe option to release alongside LA. You would have a way easier time trying to convince me LA was a Sinnoh remake that got so different than they panicked and needed BDSP to feel safe releasing it that making me consider they would create a main series title in a complete new region at the end of a generation with the mechanics it currently has. A spinoff? Sure, but a main series game? Unless you are suggesting it waa based in another existing region not being Sinnoh, in which case...that's really complete speculation that I see no reason to believe, unless it was Johto, and even then I have a hard time seeing why we should think it would be specifically chosen over Sinnoh. You seem to think LA as it is now was a result of the "year of Sinnoh" while I get the reason it was the complete opposite. I don't think that executives wanted LA of all games to fit the role of Sinnoh games most people were expecting to eventually happen. The Indigo Disk being in Unova feels a lot more like corporate mandate to "fill the Unova slot" than LA, because BDSP existed.

I don't buy LA is a much more smaller project either, considering it's developed by Team B. It's a different team from other games sure, but that's the point of alterning teams. The mentioned BDSP is a much more smaller project in scale. LA is still done by GF and meant to ocuppy the yearly slot. And it's a brand new game, unlike the Indigo Disk.
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I think there's some miscommunications here and tbf I didn't articulate myself well earlier so.

Main thing is, I believe a substantial amount of early development was specifically on gameplay features with some designs being done, of course. Prototyping would be a big part of the dev time for a game like this.

Secondly, I didn't mean it wasn't going to be tied to a region. I just don't think they started the project with Sinnoh theming in mind. I think it started more focused on the gameplay aspect, which shows through with the short campaign and more generic environments.

PLA is a smaller team than the main team, because LGPE was a smaller team and that is the team that made PLA. I also don't think the isekai storyline existed for much of the first year of development.

Basically, unlike the traditional process of development for a Pokemon game, I believe Legends was designed much more like say, a Nintendo game. Make the gameplay first, make a story and develop the scenario later. To me, Legends Arceus is a game where the core gameplay is designed to where you can just do it over and over. The actual amount of scenarios in the game is quite small, if you count quests the majority is "collect an item". There is one single "dungeon" in the entire game, and it is one of the lowest quality parts of the map and it's in the final map.

The only way I see it fitting into the Year of Sinnoh besides for this is if they decided to make The Year of Sinnoh due to PLA. The Year of Sinnoh was NOT a well-planned thing in advance. BDSP had such little development time for a reason, it was developed specifically for the tie-in and likely started development literally around the time TYoS was phoned in, and that would still be enough time to turn PLA into a Sinnoh game.

Development time takes a long time, don't get me wrong; I've been developing my own projects, I get it (albeit not in a professional sense). But PLA's low poly aesthetic, its map design, its scenario and story, IMO screams the most rushed aspect of the project, and the thing that was not really planned out early on. It's jarring to me to walk into literally a random forest by a river and then Eterna Forest remix . mp3 starts playing even though it looks nothing like it. It's just a forest. That's literally the only connection.
 
I get what you're trying to say here but I don't really think "the environments are too generic" is a point in your argument's favor when that's just kind of how Sinnoh is. With the exception of the Distortion World there was never any environment in DPPt as fantastical as Chargestone Cave, Reflection Cave, Glimwood Tangle or what have you. Each of the zones are clearly built as reworked amalgams of the original games' gameplay segments, like Crimson Mirelands being based on the Pastoria/Solaceon chunk of the map with its swamps, the ruins and Lake Valor as well as the appropriate encounters (Great Marsh Pokemon and Hippopotas come to mind).
 
I've been reminiscing a lot about Legends Arceus these days and I came to the (probably unpopular) opinion that Pokémon jumped the gun when it comes to open-world Pokémon. I know this is something a lot of people wanted, but I think GF was still one or two games away at least from making the game SV wanted to be. A lot of the technical and mechanical issues in that game comes down to not having enough experience developing games like this, and I'd rather have them take baby steps towards that so that they could deliver a properly fleshed out experience. I wouldn't mind seeing them elaborating more on the idea of the Wild Area, maybe having a couple more of them per game alongside linear dungeons, experimenting here and there with non-linear objetives, etc.

A good point of comparison would be the Atelier series, which are also RPGs on a similar scale with a yearly release schedule. They have been experimenting with bigger explorable areas at least since 2016's Atelier Firis, and ever since they have slowly expanded the production scale; each game bringing in new gameplay ideas and upgrading their technical skills. Now, in 2025, almost TEN YEARS later, we're getting a proper open-world experience with Atelier Yumia, which also brings back a lot of the gameplay concepts they tried out in previous games to make the world actually fun to explore. To the point I'd go so far as to say they've OUTPACED GF as developers.

Again, I get that people were starving for an open-world Pokémon game, but I don't think it would have hurt anyone to wait a little longer. It's almost like GF were afraid to be seen as too iterative, decided to go big and completely fell flat on their faces.
 
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ant4456 said:
I think there's some miscommunications here and tbf I didn't articulate myself well earlier so.

Main thing is, I believe a substantial amount of early development was specifically on gameplay features with some designs being done, of course. Prototyping would be a big part of the dev time for a game like this.

Secondly, I didn't mean it wasn't going to be tied to a region. I just don't think they started the project with Sinnoh theming in mind. I think it started more focused on the gameplay aspect, which shows through with the short campaign and more generic environments.

PLA is a smaller team than the main team, because LGPE was a smaller team and that is the team that made PLA. I also don't think the isekai storyline existed for much of the first year of development.

Basically, unlike the traditional process of development for a Pokemon game, I believe Legends was designed much more like say, a Nintendo game. Make the gameplay first, make a story and develop the scenario later. To me, Legends Arceus is a game where the core gameplay is designed to where you can just do it over and over. The actual amount of scenarios in the game is quite small, if you count quests the majority is "collect an item". There is one single "dungeon" in the entire game, and it is one of the lowest quality parts of the map and it's in the final map.

The only way I see it fitting into the Year of Sinnoh besides for this is if they decided to make The Year of Sinnoh due to PLA. The Year of Sinnoh was NOT a well-planned thing in advance. BDSP had such little development time for a reason, it was developed specifically for the tie-in and likely started development literally around the time TYoS was phoned in, and that would still be enough time to turn PLA into a Sinnoh game.

Development time takes a long time, don't get me wrong; I've been developing my own projects, I get it (albeit not in a professional sense). But PLA's low poly aesthetic, its map design, its scenario and story, IMO screams the most rushed aspect of the project, and the thing that was not really planned out early on. It's jarring to me to walk into literally a random forest by a river and then Eterna Forest remix . mp3 starts playing even though it looks nothing like it. It's just a forest. That's literally the only connection.
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I mean, I still don't see why Sinnoh would be an executive mandate for LA because I don't see why Sinnoh in particular would be more fitting for the project. All the mons and setting being so heavily Hokkaido inspired just seem like too much of a coincidence to me. LA is definetly not a polished game that's for sure, but I feel like that's just time constrains nor allowing them to polish the game fully. But the Anui references and the spacetime distorsions are so integrated into the game that I can't see it all coming up in only the later half of the development. We know there is a separated team that designs Pokemon for instance, surely they didn't wait that long to tell them they needed Pokemon mounts that would fit the early settlements of Hokkaido.

As I said, I have a hard time assuming the first GF game that takes place in the past without multiple time travels would not be an isekai, with how easily it allows veteran players to translate into a setting where Pokemon are suddenly dangerous and people are scared of them. The protagonist being able to stand to them is a very big key point since the very start, and later plays a role on their exile as well. You can't really create a setting where people are amazed by someone catching 3 Pokemon and have the main character be magically good at it qirhour giving it at least some explanation, and the isekai is the easier one. There are also various dialogues where Ingo and MC's knowledge of the future and things like battles/gyms or contests are used to advance the story and make it less ridiculous than people would accept things so quickly. And since completing the Pokedex is also so important, much more than in any other title (the entire gameplay loop depends on the tasks and ranks, explained because it's not a digital one), and that's only possible thanks to capturing Pokemon out of the time period, surely some kind of timetravel had to be in play anyways. That's bound to happen because of the nature of the creation of many Pokemon. So as soon as they decided on rhe capture mechanics and the gameplay loop they surely realized that Pokemon from the future/arrificial ones would need a reason to be catchable. Sinnoh just fits so naturally that I'm more inclined to believe it evolved from it, and not that it was added later. How that happened trough, I have no idea, but it's also possible.

I just don't see any big reason as to why Sinnoh would not have been on their mind since the very start. It would explain GF even considering doing a weird action rpg in the main series. In my eyes, the "year of Sinnoh" was them basically saying "see, you can't be mad that we are doing this weird game, because we are also releasing BDSP!" Similarly, I don't see why executivers would think that the weird game with rolling, fighting Pokemon on your own being damaged by them and throwing balls in boss battles had to be Sinnoh. It's definetly not what DPPt fans were going to expect and seems like a weird change. Seems more likely to me it was always the idea, and only when they realized Sinnoh fans may be mad they got ILCA to rush BDSP and pretend it was a planed year (after all, they could suddenly say sonething like 2028 is the year of Unova and sure, who can deny it? They decide when remakes come out, otherwise ORAS would have been Gen 5).

It's just kind of an assumption that, while obviously possible, I don't see any strong reason to believe on imho. I'm not really trying to change your mind of course, just pointing out that it seems like a pretty random concept on my eyes. I don't see old fashioned GF naturally deciding to develop the type of game LA is without a basis on how they would connect it to the rest of the games.
 
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Lontra Assassina said:
I've been reminiscing a lot about Legends Arceus these days and I came to the (probably unpopular) opinion that Pokémon jumped the gun when it comes to open-world Pokémon. I know this is something a lot of people wanted, but I think GF was still one or two games away at least from making the game SV wanted to be. A lot of the technical and mechanical issues in that game comes down to not having enough experience developing games like this, and I'd rather have them take baby steps towards that so that they could deliver a properly fleshed out experience. I wouldn't mind seeing them elaborating more on the idea of the Wild Area, maybe having a couple more of them per game alongside linear dungeons, experimenting here and there with non-linear objetives, etc.

A good point of comparison would be the Atelier series, which are also RPGs on a similar scale with a yearly release schedule. They have been experimenting with bigger explorable areas at least since 2016's Atelier Firis, and ever since they have slowly expanded the production scale; each game bringing in new gameplay ideas and upgrading their technical skills. Now, in 2025, almost TEN YEARS later, we're getting a proper open-world experience with Atelier Yumia, which also brings back a lot of the gameplay concepts they tried out in previous games to make the world actually fun to explore. To the point I'd go so far as to say they've OUTPACED GF as developers.

Again, I get that people were starving for an open-world Pokémon game, but I don't think it would have hurt anyone to wait a little longer. It's almost like GF were afraid to be seen as too iterative, decided to go big and completely fell flat on their faces.
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I absolutely adore the open-world in SV. It's probably the reason why Scarlet is my most played game in the franchise ever, which is insane. But the flaws are very obvious. Without any type of external guude, there is no way people would fight Rhyme then go to the south of the region before fighting Grusha. There are very weird decisions there.

I wonder if ZA is similarly a big attempt at getting better developing cities, so they can try to mix it with the open world without buildings that we got (I personally didn't mind it at all, specially because that's pretty much rural Spain, but I get why people don't like it.)
 
Lontra Assassina said:
A lot of the technical and mechanical issues in that game comes down to not having enough experience developing games like this, and I'd rather have them take baby steps towards that so that they could deliver a properly fleshed out experience.
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This isn't accurate. The technical issues are because the Pokemon engine they developed was for topdown games.

More experience developing these kinds of games doesn't help when you don't have the tools. It would take 1-2 years to make a good 3D open air Pokemon game engine which they don't have because corporate mandates.

The idea that they haven't done babysteps just doesn't make sense, SWSH's Wild Area is The Baby Step, with Crown Tundra kinda being a mini SV in terms of scenario design. Crown Tundra is also great.

People try to make it out to be a skill issue but every other developer gets the time to make an engine or is working with an engine that is made for these types of games. Scarlet and Violet shares its code DNA with Sun and Moon, a game that has set camera angles and was designed for a different type of game. Letting the player move the camera everywhere almost alone deserves an entirely new engine.

The problem is that it would take basically half or more of an entire Pokemon game development cycle with how quickly they are forcing these games to come out. This is the biggest reason why I am not confident in even a 4 year dev time somehow making the development go smoothly: the biggest obstacle is that they are turning a topdown game into an open world 3D, move your camera anywhere, go anywhere at any time, game. We should feel lucky that Legends Arceus runs as well as it does considering its code ancestry.
Lontra Assassina said:
A good point of comparison would be the Atelier series, which are also RPGs on a similar scale
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Comparing Pokemon development to most other RPGs just isn't the same thing. I know people want to think if Monolith Soft or someone picked up Pokemon it'd somehow work out, but no, it really wouldn't, because they'd be working with the same archaic spaghetti code except now they also have to figure out the engine and onboard themselves, too. And no fucking chance would they be able to make their own version of the engine for their purposes while keeping a 3 year dev time.

The problems with Pokemon aren't a "skill issue" on the devs part, and it's not even the developers being incompetent. Scarlet/Violet is actually pretty fucking competent for the game engine and time given, along with resources alotted to the devs. It's just trying to push a square into the circle hole. And they can't get a circle because it would take literal years, which corporate can't accept.

The best thing that could happen to Pokemon is basically skipping almost a generation (2 years) just working on a game engine with all the capabilities they need for 3D open world Pokemon, optimizing the process as the power jumps of the Switch 2 and onward is actually going to slow things even further (as shown with AAA across the industry), make tools for their developers to easily make 3D terrain, etc. Get the help of third-parties when possible and yes, obviously do other things such as pre-production on the next generation, and more.

This isn't entirely uncommon, and to be clear, this is before the actual game development time. If you do the game engine and have it cut into the actual time of developing the game? You get Sonic Forces, where they basically made a game engine and then spent a year working on actual content for the game.
 
ant4456 said:
This isn't accurate. The technical issues are because the Pokemon engine they developed was for topdown games.

More experience developing these kinds of games doesn't help when you don't have the tools. It would take 1-2 years to make a good 3D open air Pokemon game engine which they don't have because corporate mandates.

The idea that they haven't done babysteps just doesn't make sense, SWSH's Wild Area is The Baby Step, with Crown Tundra kinda being a mini SV in terms of scenario design. Crown Tundra is also great.

People try to make it out to be a skill issue but every other developer gets the time to make an engine or is working with an engine that is made for these types of games. Scarlet and Violet shares its code DNA with Sun and Moon, a game that has set camera angles and was designed for a different type of game. Letting the player move the camera everywhere almost alone deserves an entirely new engine.

The problem is that it would take basically half or more of an entire Pokemon game development cycle with how quickly they are forcing these games to come out. This is the biggest reason why I am not confident in even a 4 year dev time somehow making the development go smoothly: the biggest obstacle is that they are turning a topdown game into an open world 3D, move your camera anywhere, go anywhere at any time, game. We should feel lucky that Legends Arceus runs as well as it does considering its code ancestry.

Comparing Pokemon development to most other RPGs just isn't the same thing. I know people want to think if Monolith Soft or someone picked up Pokemon it'd somehow work out, but no, it really wouldn't, because they'd be working with the same archaic spaghetti code except now they also have to figure out the engine and onboard themselves, too. And no fucking chance would they be able to make their own version of the engine for their purposes while keeping a 3 year dev time.

The problems with Pokemon aren't a "skill issue" on the devs part, and it's not even the developers being incompetent. Scarlet/Violet is actually pretty fucking competent for the game engine and time given, along with resources alotted to the devs. It's just trying to push a square into the circle hole. And they can't get a circle because it would take literal years, which corporate can't accept.

The best thing that could happen to Pokemon is basically skipping almost a generation (2 years) just working on a game engine with all the capabilities they need for 3D open world Pokemon, optimizing the process as the power jumps of the Switch 2 and onward is actually going to slow things even further (as shown with AAA across the industry), make tools for their developers to easily make 3D terrain, etc. Get the help of third-parties when possible and yes, obviously do other things such as pre-production on the next generation, and more.

This isn't entirely uncommon, and to be clear, this is before the actual game development time. If you do the game engine and have it cut into the actual time of developing the game? You get Sonic Forces, where they basically made a game engine and then spent a year working on actual content for the game.
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Honestly I think if it's really an engine problem that GF will eventually switch to like, Unity or Unreal. Lots of developers in the past few years have been retiring their proprietary engines for the reasons you describe. For many studios the economics of building and maintaining them just don't make sense anymore
 
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Yung Dramps said:
Honestly I think if it's really an engine problem that GF will eventually switch to like, Unity or Unreal. Lots of developers in the past few years have been retiring their proprietary engines for the reasons you describe. For many studios the economics of building and maintaining them just don't make sense anymore
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I could see them going either way. Switching to something like Unreal gives them built-in tools for open world games and makes it easier to outsource work since more people are familiar with it. BUUUT it's also a ton of work to move all your assets library into another engine, and using a proprietary engine means you can build specialized tools for the type of game you're making, so it might be more practical for them to keep updating that even if it causes some trouble lol
 
Lontra Assassina said:
I could see them going either way. Switching to something like Unreal gives them built-in tools for open world games and makes it easier to outsource work since more people are familiar with it. BUUUT it's also a ton of work to move all your assets library into another engine, and using a proprietary engine means you can build specialized tools for the type of game you're making, so it might be more practical for them to keep updating that even if it causes some trouble lol
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...Hey wait, haven't a substantial portion of Pokemon models already been made Unity compatible thanks to BDSP? Hmm...

Also yeah I know everyone's tired of every franchise trying to become open world even when it makes no sense but Pokemon is in that 10% where it genuinely is the appropriate next step that fits like a glove with what the series has been trying to accomplish since its inception.
 
IMO the developers cutting the open world concept just because of corporate deadlines is the worst possible scenario for this series. The fact that we're in an era where almost every Pokemon release feels really different is awesome and the idea that the developers just have to give up on something they're clearly pretty passionate about IMO would leave future entries feeling far more hollow.

I would genuinely rather get buggy unfinished games than get a game the developers were just phoning in. Obviously I want a game that is finished and not buggy, but that's exactly why we should rather hope they change their ways rather than just say "Stop pushing the series forward!"
 
Yung Dramps said:
...Hey wait, haven't a substantial portion of Pokemon models already been made Unity compatible thanks to BDSP? Hmm...

Also yeah I know everyone's tired of every franchise trying to become open world even when it makes no sense but Pokemon is in that 10% where it genuinely is the appropriate next step that fits like a glove with what the series has been trying to accomplish since its inception.
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I mean yeah, but it's not just about 3D models. They'd have to program the whole battle system from scratch again, there's camera movements, post-processing effects and a whole lot of game logic that's probably coded into the engine itself to speed things up
 
ant4456 said:
IMO the developers cutting the open world concept just because of corporate deadlines is the worst possible scenario for this series. The fact that we're in an era where almost every Pokemon release feels really different is awesome and the idea that the developers just have to give up on something they're clearly pretty passionate about IMO would leave future entries feeling far more hollow.

I would genuinely rather get buggy unfinished games than get a game the developers were just phoning in. Obviously I want a game that is finished and not buggy, but that's exactly why we should rather hope they change their ways rather than just say "Stop pushing the series forward!"
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This is exactly what happened to Sonic in the wake of 06, and it's not pretty. It would be absurd to say NOTHING good came out afterwards (Generations, Colors, a third of Unleashed), but there was absolutely a huge curtailing of scope that led to deeply unfortunate knock-on effects, such as multiple playable characters being sacked outside of side games for a long, LONG time. It took 17 years to get another mainline 3D game where you could play as Tails, Knuckles and Amy. 17 years. In Pokemon terms this would probably mean, among other things, open world being ditched and GF returning to XY/SM level scope. Maybe even some kind of return to sprite art if things are sufficiently dire and reputational triage is that badly needed.
 
Yung Dramps said:
This is exactly what happened to Sonic in the wake of 06, and it's not pretty. It would be absurd to say NOTHING good came out afterwards (Generations, Colors, a third of Unleashed), but there was absolutely a huge curtailing of scope that led to deeply unfortunate knock-on effects, such as multiple playable characters being sacked outside of side games for a long, LONG time. It took 17 years to get another mainline 3D game where you could play as Tails, Knuckles and Amy. 17 years. In Pokemon terms this would probably mean, among other things, open world being ditched and GF returning to XY/SM level scope. Maybe even some kind of return to sprite art if things are sufficiently dire and reputational triage is that badly needed.
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Now I'm imagining a desperate-looking Masuda breaking one of those "in case of emergency" boxes labeled HD-2D
 
honestly i just want more non-open world pokemon games because I don't like open world and it's a bit sad to see every other franchise i enjoy/new games id like to try go that path. its a selfish desire but :blobshrug: my wants will not fundamentally alter how the games are made either way so I'll continue being a hater
 
Bakugames said:
honestly i just want more non-open world pokemon games because I don't like open world and it's a bit sad to see every other franchise i enjoy/new games id like to try go that path. its a selfish desire but :blobshrug: my wants will not fundamentally alter how the games are made either way so I'll continue being a hater
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I wouldn't mind as much if the majority of the worldbuilding was worth spending time just wandering around, but bootleg real-world locations is well below par. Like maybe I could give them a pass on SV's exploration if they put the entire game in Area Zero.
 
I had a lot of fun exploring Scarlet and Violet's world tbh. I just had fun finding where Pokemon spawned, going around landmarks, seeing more of the world. Pokemon intrinsically has an interesting mechanic for open worlds, the fact that the world can be filled with different spawns to find new teammates. Exploration is my opportunities for my team.
 
I'm not against open worlds, I've played lots of them and one of my favourite games of all time, which is Elden Ring alongside the entirey of the Souls series allowed to invest 2035 hours into it and counting, but I've always preferred a more linear approach. That beign said, the open world is a problem for Pokémon games but for a different reason. The guys on Game Freak have been having problems regarding new and more potent systems. They reached their peak back on GBA and NDS generations, pretty good games even in the technical department (peak spriting), and more or less attained some technical success in the 3DS era. Switch was too much, and this is probably due to a variety of reasons like the last Pokémon games being rushed by TPC therefor lacking content and having a lot of problems (bugs, glitches, etc.).

Game Freak needs more time to cook. They have the talent and I think we all know it. Some of us have been playing Pokémon since RB. It's been a long way and many years have passed but we all know what Game Freak is capable of, for the good or worse. I just don't like the open world in the Pokémon series when it comes alongside a lack of development time, because it transform the open world into something that feels empty, and that's been the dynamic for the lack 2 generations. Yes, they are fun. They are fun because the Pokémon formula is just that good and if you like Pokémon you'll always find it fun as long as you can move and battle things, that's how it is for us fans of Pokémon, but their open world can be improved quite a lot. They've lost much of their personality. You can't find an Ecruteak City, a Bell Tower, a Saffron City. You instead move on an open-world-skin and travel from well to well looking for battles, be it dynamax or teras or whatever.

Everytime I replay one of the oldest generations, I just find myself so inmersed in the sheer amount of routes, caves/dungeons and buildings (some of them serving as dungeons themselves) and hope to see that in the newer generations. But again, for that to happen Game Freak has to be given time.
 
I don't disagree that the open worlds can be better, that's why I want them to do more of them and improve on it rather than just ditch it. I meant it earlier when I said that, for the conditions of the game's development, Scarlet/Violet is actually fairly competent IMO.

It's just a game that literally feels like an early Beta or late Alpha, needing an extra year easily. And of course, even if it was polished there'd be problems, but they can always improve.

One thing I appreciate about SV is that the towns are seamless. Even a game like BotW really skimps out on having actual human settlements, while SV has quite a few more. I like the few caves that are in the game and I think developing them more into dungeons would work really well. Take the
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South Province is a great example for me. If you played like I did, you went through the area with the windmill and followed the path into the cave, which exits out by the coast. You go up these winding pathways above the coast back to another part of the cave, and then exit out at the town. I think with more polished mechanics and better structure, this is actually a very good "Route"/dungeon as it would be in a 2D Pokemon game. If this was a route in like, Gen 5, it'd probably be well-loved.

I think in particular just taking areas like this and turning them more dungeon-like and naming them would help the map be more memorable and make people feel there's more structure. Also, maybe a hot take, but climbing everywhere is a problem for the design. I think one of the reasons Elden Ring works is that it doesn't let you climb and fly like BotW, and I think that's partially a necessity for RPG open worlds with structure.
 
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