Umbreon

Manser

I don't know if this has been suggested before, but Umbreon has some offensive potential, imho.

Umbreon@leftovers
Nature: Careful
EVs: 212 HP, 136 attack, 162 special defense

Curse
Payback
Wish/Rest/Moonlight
Mean look/taunt

Umbreon has pretty poor offensive stats but payback + curse allows it to pack a decent punch, especially considering that due to curse, it will almost certainly be attacking second every time. It can tank a fair few hits too, allowing it to set up the combo.

Another possible option is confuse ray + assurance; hoping for the opponent to hurt themselves in confusion and have a double damage assurance.

Any thoughts on Umbreon as having some offensive ability?
 
Toxic, Screech, Pursuit, Something like taunt or moonlight maybe was suggested in very early days of DP, and it is possibly useable.. Though, tbh the potential damage is really too low for my liking..

Really the real offensive power of Umbreon is its ability to trap and pass..

HAve a nice day.
 
Offensive Umbreon could only work in GSC where its stats were better or Advance where it could use physical Hidden Power's.

In D/P I see almost physically no way to create a half decent offensive Umbreon with its best moves being only Payback and Trump Card/Last Resort. Shadowball has become special now and Psychic remaind special which further hurts it.

Secondly offensive Umbreon needs Taunt period, it lets it setup on most and stop some sweepers taking it out too early.

You should probably run that with Baton Pass too.
 
Umbreon has the defenses to get setup, but by that stage it'll be too weakened to continue. And without the setup its too weak to attack, leaving it in a less that ideal situation.
 
This is the umbreon I use, and I have baton-pass on him instead of taunt/meanlook so I can pass it to hitmontop/bronzong/claydol for gyro-ball damage. I also run more def, slightly less hp than you do, it seems.

Similar set also works for flareon in UU, only the moves are instead:
Curse
Wish
Protect
Last Resort

Effectively, curse turns them into mini curse-laxes with a 50% instant recovery move.
 
Thing with Last Resort though is Payback in many ways is superior. With STAB and the boost its 150 power vs Last Resort's 130.
 
Curse, payback, baton pass, moonlight/ taunt if you want an offensive one, also I like mean look and yawn, somewhat did that me me and baton passed to a bellyzard that 6-0ed me ._.
 
Actually Yawn + Mean Look is more viable then in Advance now you mention it. Yawn isn't blocked by Substitute in D/P and has a always hit effect.
 
Forsety said:
Thing with Last Resort though is Payback in many ways is superior. With STAB and the boost its 150 power vs Last Resort's 130.
Click to expand...

That set was for flareon, who sadly, gets neither payback, nor dark-type stab. Last-resort is the strongest move flareon has to take advantage of its massive atk-stat.

I will agree though, that payback is curse-umbreon's best move, as curse lowers its speed so that payback will always hit last. The 150-BP is exceedingly nice. It's what I use for the most part, as it is more reliable and has higher-BP. It's very nice for SE-hits against high-powered ghost and psychic types.

I'm fond of it against weaker players using mewtwo/deoxys and giratina on PBR-Wifi.
(Whilethough, against a more skilled player, I'd go down pretty fast against those pokemon.)

The best way to handle it in a more competetive situation, is umbreon curses on the opponent's switch, giving a nice 450-ish def stat from the get-go. Once more, and standard mixed-infernape's close-combats barely dent umbreon, allowing for a killer-payback on a now-squishy infernape. Leftovers/moonlight keep the HP up against SE-hits. Really, after a good curse, Special-attacks are umbreon's bigger threat... (Whilethough, it becomes rather weak to status-effects and set-ups, seeing as how it takes 2/3 turns to get up to full-speed. I'd go with rest to kill the status-effects, but having an offensive umbreon out is begging for setup already.) If you ever run a gimmick-set like this, always always have a FAST sweeper/phazer and a cleric to back this guy up.
 
I like Pursuit for the incoming Starmies or Claydols trying to spin your Stealth Rocks / Spikes. Baton Pass is a "must have", imo.
 
Snatch does work very well in tandem with Baton Pass, but since it is Umbreon it is murdered by Taunt.

But to be fair, how many Gyarados actually use Taunt on something like Umbreon? In my experience they assume you'll switch to a counter, so they go straight into a DD rather than Taunting the switch.

Umbreon's always been cool, but I think he'll be a lot less dangerous this gen for a multitude of reasons.
 
Lee said:
Snatch does work very well in tandem with Baton Pass, but since it is Umbreon it is murdered by Taunt.

But to be fair, how many Gyarados actually use Taunt on something like Umbreon? In my experience they assume you'll switch to a counter, so they go straight into a DD rather than Taunting the switch.

Umbreon's always been cool, but I think he'll be a lot less dangerous this gen for a multitude of reasons.
Click to expand...

Taunt is the first thing I would do because it's the obvious move and not using taunt and getting yawned/confused ray'd would suck way more than having to switch. Besides, most umbreon users I've come across don't seem to realize gyarados usually packs taunt, cuz they always go for a status.
 
I don't think Taunt is snatchable, but I hasn't tested it myself.

For all the people who say Umbreon is lame and isn't in any way useable, consider this golden rule: Any surprise is a step towards victory, every staircase is a win.

Basically, surprise/gimmick sets on Umbreon are indeed useable.
 
The thought just occured to me, whilethough obvious, since this particular idea seems to draw status (sleep/toxic mostly) pairing this umbreon with heracross is potent idea. I'd also like to propose a modified moveset to counter the other weakness of this set: opponent setups...
  • Payback
  • Curse
  • Moonlight
  • Snatch
Payback and curse, the staples of this set, moonlight for the sake of healage, and snatch for the sole-purpose of preventing enemy setups. Baton pass is nice, and very handy for using umbreon for other purposes, but this particular umbreon HATES being setup on. Besides, snatching opposing garchomp's SD's just makes you stronger.

Honestly, until MD85 mentioned it, I hadn't considered snatch. Now that he does mention it, though, it does cover the one thing I had issues with when using this set.

If you do randomly get taunted, you can always swap in your freshly-statused scarf-cross to kill the single-dd'd gyarados. (Honsetly, though, unless they taunt AND try to set up on you, with a single curse under your belt, you're a real threat.)

Also: New av just because this thread makes me happy. Fog is the name of my curseeon.
 
Here's another thought.

Give Umbreon Mean Look, Curse, Baton Pass, and Snatch/Moolight/Payback, max his SpD and HP EVs and give him a Careful nature. After your oppenent's team's phazers/hazers have bit the dust (or really, even if they haven't), trap something that can't do much to you (preferably, a special attaker without Nasty Plot), Curse up, then pass to a Snorlax with the same EVs/Nature. Very effective.
 
Um... could Umbreon do anything with Assurance?

1. Mean Look
2. Confuse Ray/Swagger
3. Assurance
4. Screech/Mean Look

I'll concede there's a certain element of luck, but I think it could be effective.
 
I suppose the following would be a bit more of a "hax" build, but mean-look/screech/swagger/assurance could work well together, as your opponent will be hitting themselves for 4x damage with one screech and one swagger. The only issue I can see with it is that you'd A: Be relying on luck, and B: Be (by boosting the opponent's atk) effectively weakening umbreon's weaker defensive stat.

Since we're on the topic of these sorts of things, an umbreon special-attacker using mean-look/fake-tears/moonlight/dark-pulse is semi-plausible, though less-so than curse/payback.

Or, yawn/moonlight/mean-look/nightmare (from XD.), capitalizing on umbreon's best ability: tanking.
 
You know, you could give it Baton Pass and pass the boosts to a Trick Room sweeper-esque Bronzong, which then turns the Curses into a +1 in Attack, Speed and Defense.
 
Already proposed, and works amazingly well. Life-orb bronzong is a hilarious thing indeed... just as long as you don't have to deal with fire-types... for that reason, my sweeping-'zong has occa-berry for the trick-room set-up.

The bronzong I use with my baton-pass/payback/curse/moonlight umbreon:
  • Gyroball (Slow/Stab= 225 BP)
  • Earthquake
  • Trick room
  • Hypnosis
 
Taunt is the first thing I would do because it's the obvious move
Click to expand...

Yeah, didn't you just prove my point? On paper, the opponent is obviously gonna Taunt Umbreon, so why leave him in? It would sure suck if the opponent switched to Zapdos and you ended up Taunting it when you could have Dragon Danced then Stone Edged the next turn. Players have started to expect this and gone straight into the setup. You're right in saying it would suck to get Yawn'd, but...that's prediction for you.
 
Yeah. Never a good idea to leave an umber in against a gyarados (the most common taunter in my mind).

Also, did lots of tests earlier tonight. Snatch isn't quite as useful as you might think. Only time it helped me was snagging an extreme-speed lucario's SD. Sadly, he still over-powered me, though, as I didn't snatch the last one, and got killed to death on the next turn. (I would have swapped, but Fog was my last pokemon.) Taunt seems to be the best option. Prevents status and hazing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top