Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon In-Game Tier List

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I've never seen anyone else bring this up and it's been on my mind for a bit, so I figured I might as well.

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This is an opportunity to get these stones in Malie City immediately before the Aether Foundation. The Dusk Stone is usually found near the start of Poni Plains, while the Shiny Stone is around the end of Ancient Poni Path. This means that depending on the version, you can get one or the other much much earlier as you can immediately go back to Malie City after Gladion forces you on the boat to the Aether Foundation. Therefore; the viability of Minccino, Flabebe, Litwick, Honedge and Murkrow are directly affected depending upon which version you are playing (and as a side note, so are Misdreavus and Roselia in SM). Should we seriously consider this in tiering?
 
Regarding the Dusk and Shiny stones, I haven't used Minccino so I can't give my 2 cents on it, but everything else I can. Having Florges and Honchkrow in the Aether Paradise section where there's a lot of powerful, hard hitting pokemon is very useful, but for Florges it's a double edged sword: You're not getting Moonblast until lv. 46, which means normally you're not getting an actual good STAB on it until either the end of Aether Paradise or afterward, in which case the early stone is null and void. Honchkrow appreciates the extra offensive firepowe,r but the dropped speed can become an issue. Doublade with Eviolite works reasonably well unless it's a special one, then go ahead and slap it on. The only one I think it really affects is Litwick, because the jump in power from Lampert to Chandelure is disgusting, and it evolves either just before, or at the start of the Aether Paradise part of the game to fully abuse those shadow balls and Flame Bursts. So really, only Litwick's viability should be altered with the earlier stone, maybe Honchkrow if the speed drop isn't too bad on a run.
 
I’ve been on these forums for a while now and I figure it’s time I give some input on some of the stuff I used.

Rowlet: This guy doesn’t have good matchups in this game, whether it be the water trial, surprisingly, the fire trial, Team Skull, Guzma, Plumeria, Ribombee, Mimikyu, Kommo-o, Kahili, Molayne, Acerola, Hau’s Noivern and Crabombinable, the list just goes on and on. He gets pretty good STAB in Spirit Shackle and has an ok time as a Rowlet/Dartrix with early Flynium Z. Unfortunately, his defenses are lacking and he has a plethora of weaknesses and bad matchups that just overshadow all of this. B, borderline C.

Buneary: Eh. Just ok. She has ok matchups if you manage to evolve her early, with Ilima’s trial, Araquanid with Charge Beam, Olivia, Togedemaru, and Nanu with Jump Kick, Olivia E4 and Molayne, Kahili with Charge Beam, and somewhat good against Hau, but she is useless against Acerola, Hala, the ghost trial, the fire trial, the grass trial, the dragon trial, Ribombee, and most of the skull grunts. Solid B based on a lot of good matchups and an alright movepool.

Zorua: It’s pretty solid. Doesn’t do much on the first island but helps out with Totem Marowak, the Ghost trial, Acerola E4, and Hau’s Raichu, but what really boosts it up a few ranks is being broken if used right in the Ultra Necrozma fight. Good against some grunts too. Yet another good B rank.

Gastly: Gastly has an ok movepool, but no really good matchups. I guess it’s ok against Ribombee, but mine didn’t see any action in the E4 and most of the game it just came in to take a hit so I could revive another team member. D rank, if not E.

Archeops: Pretty brutal. Destroys Kommo-O, Kahili, Hau, Team Skull, Aether Foundation, and does neutrally well against almost everything else. A tier, borderline S.

Garchomp: Only available through SOS, and still rare even at that. Hard to level up and you have to baby it until you get ‘Chomp. Even then it struggles with the E4, Kommo-O, Ribombee, and the rest of the Mina trial and victory road. C to D tier.
 
Should Necrozma really be B tier? Barring the postgame, it literally only has ten battles to its name (and half of them aren't even worth mentioning). It does come at a higher level than pretty much anything at the point you'll encounter it and even exceeds the levels of the final battle, and it has an extremely high capture rate for a Legendary, but it's not like an Emerald Rayquaza situation where it's bloated stats and vastly higher level make what little of the game left an absolute cakewalk, especially with the E4 of USUM utilizing EV's this time around. Unless you stuff it in the Poke Pelago, shove vitamins down its throat, or have a Plaza stacked enough to have the EV food stalls, the lack of EVs are very apparent. Even so, to reach its full potential, one has to back track to the first island to capture Solgaleo or Lunala. Ultra Necrozma does have even more bloated stats than the typical legendary, but all the elite 4 members have at least one Pokemon that can hit it super effectively no matter what form its in and it has to survive at least one turn in Ultra before it can use it's Z-Move. I think C tier is a better ranking for it.
 
Mimikyu for A: Mimikyu is just freaking amazing in-game. It has an ability that pretty much allows it for 1 turn to do whatever it wants (be it set a Hone Claws/Swords Dance or just attack) along coming with the powerful Let's Snuggle Forever, obtainable after Nanu's Grand trial. Furthermore, due to Ultra Necrozma's AI making it click Smart Strike and (fortunately) not Photon Geyser, Mimikyu is always guaranteed 1 turn (esp when you revive it) to attack Ultra Necrozma, especially with Let's Snuggle Forever. It also does alright against Acerola and pretty much every trainer due to just having 1 free turn almost the whole time. While it has sometimes a lackluster attack, it can easily boost it with Hone Claws in early games.

Bruxish for B: Bruxish can pretty much be found somewhere in the middle of the game, and can also be caught at reasonable level (ranges between 10-38). Unfortunately, it has 5% rate to be caught when you can. Furthermore, Psychic is kind of an unfortunate typing in USUM with all the Dark and Ghost moves reigning there. However, Bruxish has 2 great abilities: Dazzling to block random priority and (imo the preferred one) Strong Jaws, that boosts its powerful Psychic Fangs and Crunch. It also gets Aqua Jet which can be really valuable sometimes when fighting a faster opponent.

Slowpoke for E/whatever the lowest tier is: Holy fuck, this thing sucks so much, it has literally shit stats, gets relatively weak moves (seriously, Water Pulse is like the strongest move it gets by level up) and finally, it evolves so late, in every scenario where it could've been is useless just due to it being... Slowpoke. Finally, Bruxish is a much better Water/Psychic mon to have, at least it has better stats and stronger moves.
 
I’d say Diglett should probably be C at most. It has the speed to outrun most things and has an amazing movepool (mine had Iron Head, Earthquake, Sucker Punch and a rotating fourth slot depending on circumstance) and the offense to get it done. It also has two nice immunities, but unfortunately it’s pretty frail and will need a lot of healing items to stay on the field for long.
 
I have one from my most recent game:

Mime.Jr: This is a weird one. In a game where the vast majority of boss fights lean physical; 40/65 defenses are pretty awful. As is being a Psychic-type in a game where random Dark/Bug coverage is everywhere. However; the former is mitigated by Mime's very fast [For the region] 90 Speed; and immediate access to Barrier [And later Reflect]; while the latter is mitigated by Fairy-typing.

Mime.Jr is also available very early on; at a 20% rate in the grass near the pokemon center in Hau'oli and 10% in the other patches.

Perhaps the best part about Mime.Jr is that it evolves into Mr.Mime at Lv 15 upon learning Mimic. This is 1 level sooner than Kadabra; and 60 Base stats higher [Although 40 less than Alakazam]; and Mr.Mime has a better typing and moveset! And Mime.Jr can fight; unlike Abra.

Speaking of moveset, Mr.Mime is highly flexiable. In addittion to being able to outright use enemy moves with Copycat and Mimic, Mr.Mime has access to boosting moves; Screens; Encore; Baton Pass; Misty Terrain; Trick; Power Swap [Which can heavily cheese some fights; most notably Totems/Necrozma] and Guard Swap [Again; that can really cheese some fights]. It also has access to a suite of moves by TM and Tutor; including but not limited to Thunderbolt; Signal Beam; Grass Knot; Icy Wind; Foul Play [!]; and if you want to get really freaky with Power Swap; all the punches and Zen Headbutt. Indeed, the worst thing about Mr.Mime's moveset is you don't get a Fairy move all the way until TM 99. Even Wonder Room is surprisingly useful in flipping Mime's huge Sp.Def and awful Def in certain fights.

Still; Mr.Mime packs a lot of utility; is incredibly powerful for the part of the game where you get it, and is a very strong attacker even with just Psychic STAB; Charge Beam/Shock Wave and Signal Beam; while still having a Utility slot; which you can have up and running as soon as you have defeated Hala [Who Mime Quad resists and can wall rather easily with help from Barrier]. You can transition Mime into a more supportive pokemon built for ruining Totems/Bosses with all sorts of wacky support moves; and have it as more of an attacker with it's coverage and speed [And Foul Play as an option to deal with your biggest danger; physicals].

I would easily say that Mime.Jr makes B Tier; and there is a very strong argument for A. It's certainly better than Abra; who is B.
 
I don't know if it's still rankable or obtainable but gift Rockruff is A at worst
Amazing speed for alola standards, great movepool and coverage (aside from being stuck with 50 stab for 2 islands) and he's a great lead for most of the game
Haven't checked day lycanrock but i assume he's not that much worst
Dusk lycanroc is cool as hell but gameplay wise he's straight up trash
Wimpod: C, evolving wimpod is a pain but first impression is quite broken and he can tank physical hits
The real problem is he takes too long to learn a physical water move, and he's too slow (although first impression and sucker punch help)
If he got aqua jet and got it early he'd B but as he stands he's not that good (even if he is my favourite pokemon)
Mimikyu: A
While he doesn't get swords dance anymore you can use x attacks for that
Also he literally autowins ultra necrozma 9/10 times thanks to toxic, honestly just that alone is reason enough for an A imo
 
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Accelrock is much stronger than Thrash for most extends. Problem is, Lycandusk CANT get it before E4 as it's a relearn move.

If Lycanroc Dusk could learn it on the fly it'd have been much better. Thrash + the various coverage moves made it for pretty solid ingame play though, expecially as he's one of the few alolan mons that isnt slow as fuck.
 
Idk about you, but I think Totem Alolan Marowak needs a spot at B or A. Main reason is that when you Thief the actual Totem's Thick Club and the fact that you get it at level 25, which means it can learn Shadow Bone, this makes the only opportunity to use Marowak while disregarding known issues it had in, say SM. It comes just after beating the Totem itself, with 40th sticker found at Route 8, nukes completely Lurantis, loses a bit the key matchup against Togedemaru due to no Lightning Rod, but regardless can deal with it nicely, along with that Skarmory. If Disguise is broken and Marowak manages to survive somehowly, a Shadow Bone is very likely gonna nuke Mimikyu as well. Has a good matchup against Totem Ribombee (fuck that thing) but doesn't like it when Pelipper is around. It is, however, one of the many slowpokes although in its case it can utilize Flame Charge to boost its Speed. Overall, that thing is actually pretty good when you need to use it.

Also, (no I'm not nomming officially) but do you think Necrozma could rise in viability? Especilly in US, once you fight Gladion, you can catch the mascot (Solgaleo in US, to be revealed later) and fuse it with Necrozma, it doesn't get much battles but the fact it can easily beat the whole Elite Four (maybe except Molayne/Dusk Mane form mostly, not completely absent to Dawn Wings but probs inferior to Dusk Mane) rather easily and can contribute to the final Hau battle. Finally, you can choose whenever to run Solganium/Lunalium or Ultranecrozium which is great imo.
 
Worldie said:
Accelrock is much stronger than Thrash for most extends. Problem is, Lycandusk CANT get it before E4 as it's a relearn move.

If Lycanroc Dusk could learn it on the fly it'd have been much better. Thrash + the various coverage moves made it for pretty solid ingame play though, expecially as he's one of the few alolan mons that isnt slow as fuck.
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Ik, ik, i'm saying fire fang+ trash (dusk) is about as much as accellerock (day) so i'd say that if i put dusk at AS then day is about as high imo
 
King Roma said:
Ik, ik, i'm saying fire fang+ trash (dusk) is about as much as accellerock (day) so i'd say that if i put dusk at AS then day is about as high imo
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I wouldn't really agree with that - a 40 BP STAB move isn't particularly impressive damagewise. Remember that Daycanroc doesn't get tough claws, so Accelerock is way less than half as strong as Dusk's Thrash. Consider how fast Daycanroc is and the priority isn't all that impressive, in fact I'd say that once you get the Rock Tomb TM, Accelerock's usefulness is pretty much over the hill.

Tough Claws is really good. Thrash Tough Claws is roughly the equivalent of a non-Tough Claws boosted 104 BP Rock-type move. In other words, that Thrash is slightly stronger than Stone Edge, off either Dusk or Day, and it comes much earlier and doesn't miss. Worse coverage of course but it can't be perfect.

0 Atk L30 Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. L30 0 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi: 33-40 (43.4 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk L30 Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Thrash vs. L30 0 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi: 34-41 (44.7 - 53.9%) -- 41.4% chance to 2HKO

Dusk has several huge advantages over day, and honestly I don't think Day's accelerock is even particularly great after the Rock Tomb TM which isn't too far off from when Rockruff evolves.
 
Merritt said:
I wouldn't really agree with that - a 40 BP STAB move isn't particularly impressive damagewise. Remember that Daycanroc doesn't get tough claws, so Accelerock is way less than half as strong as Dusk's Thrash. Consider how fast Daycanroc is and the priority isn't all that impressive, in fact I'd say that once you get the Rock Tomb TM, Accelerock's usefulness is pretty much over the hill.

Tough Claws is really good. Thrash Tough Claws is roughly the equivalent of a non-Tough Claws boosted 104 BP Rock-type move. In other words, that Thrash is slightly stronger than Stone Edge, off either Dusk or Day, and it comes much earlier and doesn't miss. Worse coverage of course but it can't be perfect.

0 Atk L30 Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. L30 0 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi: 33-40 (43.4 - 52.6%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk L30 Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Thrash vs. L30 0 HP / 0 Def Wishiwashi: 34-41 (44.7 - 53.9%) -- 41.4% chance to 2HKO

Dusk has several huge advantages over day, and honestly I don't think Day's accelerock is even particularly great after the Rock Tomb TM which isn't too far off from when Rockruff evolves.
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Fair enough but it's still B at worst, and i'd still probably rate it A
 
The main issue Dawn Lyca runs into is the fact that since it has no Tough Claws, it falls off very hard on anything that Accelrock doesnt kill.

The priority of Accelrock is often a overkill due to the aforementioned fact that Lycan-Day is one of the very few alolan mon that isnt slow as hell, and lack of an actual ability does hurt the damage of coverage a lot.

Lycan-dusk gets pretty nifty coverage between TC boosted Brick Break, Crunch and Thrash, something Dawn fails at.
 
My playthrough back in April-May goes at a snails pace but I've been using some other Pokemon.

Elekid (Trade) was rated B in SM, but I'm honestly not seeing it here. I've even had the luxury of getting an Electirizer early, but Electivire is leaving much to be desired. I even picked it up exclusively for the Totem Togedemaru fight because due to my restrictions, it would have been a near impossible fight without it, and even then it struggled against the totem even though it theoretically has a fantastic match up against it. I'd probably put it in D right now due to many of the major fights it comes up against hitting it on its much weaker defensive stat and not bringing enough utility to those fights before it gets KO'd. Totem Togedemaru gets 5HKO by bulldoze while Iron Head can 4HKO, while also procing flinchhax. It can't do much to the ally Skarmory due to Lightning Rod, unless it has Fire Punch (which is a 3HKO). It can't lead against Guzma at all due to Golisipod's First Impression being an OHKO, it doesn't do anything to Totem Mimikyu, it did okay against Nanu, it can do okay against Lusamine, but most of her Pokemon can set up on it or OHKO, and don't even bother using it against Totem Kommo-o, Ultra Necrozma, or Hapu. I can see it doing theoretically well against the E4 but I haven't done that part yet.

Elgyem isn't very good either. Psychics (especially mono psychic), as stated previously have it rough in Alola due to all the Bug, Dark, and Ghost coverage in the game. At the point you can get one, you should have eviolite and TM Psychic so it can hit pretty hard, and is fairly bulky, but it just does not fair well against any of the major battles in the game except for Ultra Necrozma, where it can actually survive a Dragon Pulse if sufficiently leveled. Elgyem and Beeheeyem do have some interesting status moves if smart enough, can be utilized with varying results. I'd still put it in E even with its gimmicks as it being slow and only having average bulk at best means its gonna get hit a lot, and has a rather poor showing against most of the major fights it can take part in, starting with Totem Togedemaru.
 
I plan on doing a mono-water run of UM, team will probably be something like: primarina, pelipper, lanturn, poliwrath, golisopod and tentacruel, i'll tell y'all how it goes if and when i start
 
Is this thread dead? I don't think the OP has been active here at all this year. What happens to all this discussion when the OP isn't paying attention to it?
Also does the previous post count as spam?
Mod edit: Yes, it did - CRoll
 
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Idk about ya, but I think we could put Xerneas at C/B. While it is a Legendary from Wormhole as such whenever it will appear is a big mystery, it has catch rate of 45, making it relatively easy to catch. It comes with Geomancy and Moonblast. Once you're done with Totem Ribombee, you can just use Z-Geomancy (lol)
also you can buy Focus Blast and Thunder TMs as well, making Xerneas even better.
 
Ryota Mitarai said:
Idk about ya, but I think we could put Xerneas at C/B. While it is a Legendary from Wormhole as such whenever it will appear is a big mystery, it has catch rate of 45, making it relatively easy to catch. It comes with Geomancy and Moonblast. Once you're done with Totem Ribombee, you can just use Z-Geomancy (lol)
also you can buy Focus Blast and Thunder TMs as well, making Xerneas even better.
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Honestly I personally think all the Wormhole legendaries are about at two different rankings - D rank for the 580 legends and most of the UBs and C rank for the 680. They all tear through the game pretty much equally and are easy enough targets for the Master Ball. A few of the 680 legends are a little stronger than the others but honestly they're all going to smash the rest of the game.
 
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