Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon Battle Mechanics Research (Read Post #2)

Swaggy-G said:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Stomping_Tantrum_(move)
This isn't a new move people, we've known how it works for a while.
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I went through that page, the original thread, and several pages of google before posting. The move is not completely understood, and there are still conflicting reports about how it works. For example, the original thread mentions it activates when the previous move was blocked by a type immunity, which goes against what HeatEdgeSword said. Terrain interaction and previous moves missing was also not tested because SuMo Pokemon with Stomping Tantrum didn't run priority or inaccurate moves.

HeatEdgeSword said:
From what I gathered, Stomping Tantrum requires "But it failed!" message to be displayed for its power doubled. If a move is blocked by the effect of a terrain, it will display "Pokemon surrounds itself with X terrain!" instead. If the attack missed, it will state: "Pokemon avoided the attack!". Hitting Levitate with Ground-type move will display: "It doens't affect Pokemon..."
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You tested in-game?
 
@ pubby Actually, I have not. Which is why I said: "Maybe someone knows the actual answer". Apparently, I didn't read the part where it states "had no effect on any target". My bad.
 
Linkin Karp said:
Does Plasma Fists turn -ate Return into Electric-type? What about Liquid Voice Hyper Voice?
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This is a known mechanic but worth checking for Plasma Fists anyways: Abilities that change move types come before Ion Deluge, so Plasma Fists can't change them to electric.

pubby said:
Stomping Tantrum is viable on Lycanroc so I'd like to make sure the mechanics are 100% understood.
Does Stomping Tantrum double when the users's previous attack gets blocked by psychic terrain?
Does Stomping Tantrum double when the users's toxic gets blocked by misty/electric terrain?
Does Stomping Tantrum double when the users's previous attack missed?
Does Stomping Tantrum double when the user attacks into abilities like flash fire / water absorb / sap sipper? What about levitate?
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The move's PROBABLY implemented correctly on showdown, but:
  • Stomping Tantrum activated on "But it failed!" and "It doesn't effect X." -Which includes type immunities and abilities like Water Absorb and Levitate.
  • Flash Fire is included with the other type-immunity abilities despite its different text.
  • Misses double the power of Stomping Tantrum.
  • Having a move protected by Terrain doubles the power of Stomping Tantrum
 
UltiMario said:
This is a known mechanic but worth checking for Plasma Fists anyways: Abilities that change move types come before Ion Deluge, so Plasma Fists can't change them to electric.



The move's PROBABLY implemented correctly on showdown, but:
  • Stomping Tantrum activated on "But it failed!" and "It doesn't effect X." -Which includes type immunities and abilities like Water Absorb and Levitate.
  • Flash Fire is included with the other type-immunity abilities despite its different text.
  • Misses double the power of Stomping Tantrum.
  • Having a move protected by Terrain doubles the power of Stomping Tantrum
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it actually isnt implemented at all on showdown yet besides the raw base power and stuff because we never got to figuring out the full mechanics, so this is huge. thanks!
 
UltiMario said:
  • Stomping Tantrum activated on "But it failed!" and "It doesn't effect X." -Which includes type immunities and abilities like Water Absorb and Levitate.
  • Flash Fire is included with the other type-immunity abilities despite its different text.
  • Misses double the power of Stomping Tantrum.
  • Having a move protected by Terrain doubles the power of Stomping Tantrum
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Other things that might, or might not, activate Stomping Tantrum:
  • Burn Up failed because user was not Fire type
  • Dark Void/Hyperspace Fury failed because user was Smeargle
  • Destiny Bond used twice in a row (also Protect etc.)
  • Doom Desire and Future Sight used on the same target at once
  • Endeavor used on a target with less HP
  • Explosion/Self-Destruct blocked by Damp
  • Fake Out/First Impression not used on your first turn out
  • Flinch/Freeze/Full paralysis
  • Fire-type move blocked by Powder
  • Fling/Natural Gift blocked by Embargo etc.
  • Infatuation
  • Lost focus
  • Move blocked by Disable, Gravity, Heal Block, Imprison, Taunt or Throat Chop before it can be used
  • Move blocked by Primal Weather
  • Move reflected by Magic Bounce
  • Move ran out of PP before it could be used
  • Priority move blocked by Dazzling or Queenly Majesty
  • Recharge
  • Sky Drop
  • Snatch
  • Spit Up/Swallow without using Stockpile first
  • Sucker Punch against passive target
  • Target fainted before move could be used
  • Truant
We'd want to be sure of the mechanics before we implement it...
 
urkerab said:
Other things that might, or might not, activate Stomping Tantrum:
  • Burn Up failed because user was not Fire type
  • Dark Void/Hyperspace Fury failed because user was Smeargle
  • Destiny Bond used twice in a row (also Protect etc.)
  • Doom Desire and Future Sight used on the same target at once
  • Endeavor used on a target with less HP
  • Explosion/Self-Destruct blocked by Damp
  • Fake Out/First Impression not used on your first turn out
  • Flinch/Freeze/Full paralysis
  • Fire-type move blocked by Powder
  • Fling/Natural Gift blocked by Embargo etc.
  • Infatuation
  • Lost focus
  • Move blocked by Disable, Gravity, Heal Block, Imprison, Taunt or Throat Chop before it can be used
  • Move blocked by Primal Weather
  • Move reflected by Magic Bounce
  • Move ran out of PP before it could be used
  • Priority move blocked by Dazzling or Queenly Majesty
  • Recharge
  • Sky Drop
  • Snatch
  • Spit Up/Swallow without using Stockpile first
  • Sucker Punch against passive target
  • Target fainted before move could be used
  • Truant
We'd want to be sure of the mechanics before we implement it...
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To add to this list, here's a few more things that seem obvious but aren't treated the same as other failures by the server so I want to be sure about them before doing anything:
  • Aromatherapy: Nothing gets cured and/or an active ally negates the effect of the move on themselves with Sap Sipper.
  • Heal Bell: Same as Aromatherapy, but replace Sap Sipper with Soundproof.
  • Block/Mean Look/Spider Web: The target can't be trapped.
  • Defog: The target's evasion can't be lowered and there are no hazards to clear.
  • Flower Shield: There are Grass types to hit, but their defense stat is already maxed so the move doesn't actually affect them.
  • Guard Swap/Power Swap: Neither the user or the target has a relevant boost to be swapped.
  • Strength Sap: The target has maxed its attack stat out and has the ability Contrary, or has an ability that prevents its attack stat from being lowered, or either of those cases while the user has full HP, or the target's attack stat is protected by its ally's Flower Veil and the target has the ability Liquid Ooze.
 
UltiMario said:
The move's PROBABLY implemented correctly on showdown, but:
  • Stomping Tantrum activated on "But it failed!" and "It doesn't effect X." -Which includes type immunities and abilities like Water Absorb and Levitate.
  • Flash Fire is included with the other type-immunity abilities despite its different text.
  • Misses double the power of Stomping Tantrum.
  • Having a move protected by Terrain doubles the power of Stomping Tantrum
Click to expand...
Sorry for more questions on Stomping Tantrum, and these might be obvious, but this move really interests me
  • If Rock Slide is used, hits one and misses the other, is Stomping Tantrums Bp still doubled.
  • If you try to Sub up while already having a sub, is Bp doubles (doesnt have message of 'it failed')
  • Whirlwind failing to remove an ingrained target
Gonna keep updating this if i think of other things
 
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Hello, I had actually tested for the german Pokémon Wiki some of the different move failstates for Stomping Trantum that were beyond just "failed to affect the target" or "failed because the requirements were not met" - and looking through here, I have to add some more to the list.

But without further ado, I should just tell you what i had found out so far.

  • Being unable to attack due to sleep, freeze, confusion, paralysis, attract, and flinching doubles the BP of ST
  • Not being able to execute a move in the same turn it was selected due to Disable, Taunt and other move disabling moves doubles the BP of ST
  • Not being able to execute a move due to Powder, Snatch, or having it reflected by Magic Coat/Magic Bounce doubles the Power of ST
  • If the ST-User uses a Pledge move, while another member uses a different pledge move, while the ST-User is faster and such forfeits using its move so the slower Mon can execute the combinational Attack DOES double the base Power of ST
  • Not really relevant for the Simulator, but item use always counts as a successfully executed move, even if the item use failed
  • (The move being blocked by Protect etc. dosen't trigger the condition for ST, but everyone already knows that)
  • Not being able to attack due to recharging from Hyperbeam etc. doesn't double the BP of ST
  • Not being able to attack due to being held in the air by an enemy Sky Drop doesn't double the BP of ST
  • Using Fly, Bounce or Sky Drop and having it interrupted by Gravity, Thousand Arrows, or Smack Down doesn't double the BP for ST (tested for both turns)
  • For being able to trigger in a Double Battle, a move that has multiple targets must fail against each (not sure about no targets)
  • Moves used via Instruct, Dancer or Magic Coat/Magic Bounce will double the BP of ST if they fail

I don't think this does really much for you, since this is my first post and you will have to test everything listed anyway, but since I brought some new Scenarios it should help either way.

I also thought while browsing the bullet points of a new Scenario, that could be added to the list:
  • Shell Trap: Will using Shell Trap but not have it trigger double the BP of ST?
 
Snackhound said:
Hello, I had actually tested for the german Pokémon Wiki some of the different move failstates for Stomping Trantum that were beyond just "failed to affect the target" or "failed because the requirements were not met" - and looking through here, I have to add some more to the list.

But without further ado, I should just tell you what i had found out so far.

  • Being unable to attack due to sleep, freeze, confusion, paralysis, attract, and flinching doubles the BP of ST
  • Not being able to execute a move in the same turn it was selected due to Disable, Taunt and other move disabling moves doubles the BP of ST
  • Not being able to execute a move due to Powder, Snatch, or having it reflected by Magic Coat/Magic Bounce doubles the Power of ST
  • If the ST-User uses a Pledge move, while another member uses a different pledge move, while the ST-User is faster and such forfeits using its move so the slower Mon can execute the combinational Attack DOES double the base Power of ST
  • Not really relevant for the Simulator, but item use always counts as a successfully executed move, even if the item use failed
  • (The move being blocked by Protect etc. dosen't trigger the condition for ST, but everyone already knows that)
  • Not being able to attack due to recharging from Hyperbeam etc. doesn't double the BP of ST
  • Not being able to attack due to being held in the air by an enemy Sky Drop doesn't double the BP of ST
  • Using Fly, Bounce or Sky Drop and having it interrupted by Gravity, Thousand Arrows, or Smack Down doesn't double the BP for ST (tested for both turns)
  • For being able to trigger in a Double Battle, a move that has multiple targets must fail against each (not sure about no targets)
  • Moves used via Instruct, Dancer or Magic Coat/Magic Bounce will double the BP of ST if they fail

I don't think this does really much for you, since this is my first post and you will have to test everything listed anyway, but since I brought some new Scenarios it should help either way.

I also thought while browsing the bullet points of a new Scenario, that could be added to the list:
  • Shell Trap: Will using Shell Trap but not have it trigger double the BP of ST?
Click to expand...

So basically... if the previous move did not execute not because of the opponent protecting itself or the user being in a charge/recharge state, it boosts Stomping Tantrum?
 
I tested Focus Punch, Shell Trap and PP-Reduction via Spite and they all boosted Stomping Tantrum after the Attack failed to execute. Also having to skip your turn due to Truant boosts it aswell. Disobedience would be another irrelevant but interesting Factor.

Siggu said:
So basically... if the previous move did not execute not because of the opponent protecting itself or the user being in a charge/recharge state, it boosts Stomping Tantrum?
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Ignoring Item usage and treating an enemy Sky Drop as being in the state of a charging move, I would be inclined to agree, if it weren't for the case of a cancelled Sky Drop, Fly or Bounce. I should try if interrupts via status ailments yield different results.
 
So if Photon Geyser/Light that Burns the Sky target the opponent's special defense regardless if it's physical or special, how is that calculated? With the Attack/Special Attack to the Opponent's special defense?
 
Check for these things:
  • If only one part fails/would fail for a move used with Parental Bond, will it activate Stomping Tantrum (for the second hit for example, having no target after a long, idk about the first hit failing but the second still working though, mabe Outrage hit different targets per hit or something, but I think everything that stops the fist hit will prevent the second hit from working)?
  • Will Stomping Tantrum activate after hitting Disguise?
  • Will Stomping Tantrum activate if Imposter fails (probably no)?
  • Will hiring the wrong target activate Stomping Tantrum (via Rage Powder etc.)?
  • Will having Future Sight fail against a Dark type activate Stomping Tantrum even if the move used that turn secedes (or the reverse, having your move fail but then seceding with Doom Desire/Future Sight)?
  • Will Splash etc. activate Stomping Tantrum?
Also:
  • Check Mind Blown for anything that Selfdestruct and Explosion affects/affected by.
 
Out of curiousity, did anything about stomping tantrum change between games that we're discussing it so much. Is it just that notable mons get a better ground move from it?
 
Sulfurian said:
Out of curiousity, did anything about stomping tantrum change between games that we're discussing it so much. Is it just that notable mons get a better ground move from it?
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Pretty much. It was pretty irrelevant in SM but now that it's become a viable coverage move for a lot of mons people want to know the exact mechanics.
EDIT: Ninja'd
 
  • Similar to confusion, missing a (High) Jump Kick will still boost Stomping Tantrum, event though the move technically does something by damaging your Pokémon.
  • Although every Hit of Triple Kick has it's own accuracy check, failing on of the subsequent checks and landing only one or two hits won't boost Stomping Tantrum.
  • Hitting Disguises or Substitutes doesn't trigger Stomping Tantrum.
  • Even though crafty shield doesn't trigger the same protection animation as Protect, Quick Guard etc. failing a move against Crafty shield doesn't boost Stomping Tantrum
  • If there are no targets, moves will simply fail and boost Stomping Tantrum
  • As expected, Aromatherapy/Heal Bell won't boost Stomping Tantrum as long one Tem Member was healed, even if a Sap Sipper/Soundproof active partner absorbs part of the Attack. If there is no Team Member to be healed, or if the only Team member with an Status ailment is an active Pokémon with Sap Sipper/Soundproof, Stomping Tantrum gets a boost since Aromatherapy/Heal bell could not achieve anything ( On a side note, Sap Sipper and Soundproof trigger, even if the use of Aromatherapy/Heal Bell would have failed due to no Team Members being status'd.)

I had the hunch, that having your turn "skipped" by Sky Drop didn't just not trigger Stomping Tantrum, but that Stomping Tantrum would be considering the success of the move used before Sky Drop, since there are no text prompts at all as long you are in the air. Sadly, that didn't turn out to be true, and failing a move before being dropped still won't give you a boost.

I'll try to test for Future Sight, Splash, and more in the near Future.

TrainerX493 said:
Check for these things:
  • If only one part fails/would fail for a move used with Parental Bond, will it activate Stomping Tantrum (for the second hit for example, having no target after a long, idk about the first hit failing but the second still working though, mabe Outrage hit different targets per hit or something, but I think everything that stops the fist hit will prevent the second hit from working)?
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I can't even think of a scenario where this could apply since Endeavor apparently doesn't work with Parental Bond.

Since we are also on the topic of Mind Blown:
  • Since it behaves similar to Explosion/Selfdestruct, will Mind Blow still hurt the user if it simply misses it's target? (maybe test Absorption abilities seperately?)
 
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Are there any ways other than Protean for a Pokemon’s type to change in the middle of a turn? Either type changing upon being hit or the user’s type changing after using a move by some means other than an ability.

If so, it might be possible to test Parental Bond’s second hit only fail with Synchronoise.
 
Is any of the new moves locked to a certain Pokemon? (like how Dark Void is locked to Darkrai) (for example, can Smeargle use Photon Geyser?)
 
Rarycaris said:
Are there any ways other than Protean for a Pokemon’s type to change in the middle of a turn? Either type changing upon being hit or the user’s type changing after using a move by some means other than an ability.
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I think you're looking for Color Change (Kecleon's ability).
 
Testing some more stuff:
  • I checked Gravity and the Pledge move combos with Splintered Stormshards now, doesn't remove either of them.
  • Neuroforce can be removed by Gastro Acid and Worry Seed, as well as swapped with Skill Swap, taken by Role Play, and given by Entrainment.
Dunsparce Fanboy said:
Is any of the new moves locked to a certain Pokemon? (like how Dark Void is locked to Darkrai) (for example, can Smeargle use Photon Geyser?)
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None of the new moves are locked.
Snackhound said:
Since we are also on the topic of Mind Blown:
  • Since it behaves similar to Explosion/Selfdestruct, will Mind Blow still hurt the user if it simply misses it's target? (maybe test Absorption abilities seperately?)
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TrainerX493 said:
How does Mind Blown react to Powder? And how about Fly/Protect? And what about Wonder Guard (on a Pokémon that would block Fire Types)? How does Mind Blown react to Flash Fire?

Does Plasma Fists bypass Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, etc.

Does Clangorous Soulblaze get effected by Sheer Force? What happens is 1 or more (but not all) of the stats is all ready maxed out? Did Z-Move boosts bypass Contrary (gives the +1 instead of -1), if so, does this move bypass it too?

Are any of the new moves like Chatter, being blocked from being selected (Sketch, Metronome, Assist, Mimic, Mirror Move, etc.), or is like Hyper Space Fury, selectable (or hackable) but fails if not the right species of Pokémon?

Can Rayquaza be hacked to be able to Ultra Burst without removing its ability to Mega Evolve, if so, which takes priority (we know that Z-Moves>Mega Evolution and Ultra Burst>Z-Moves, how about Ultra Burst vs. Mega Evolution)?

If two Pokémon have the same speed stat, and one tries to Mega Evolve and one tries to Ultra Burst, will one take priority, or is it 50/50 on who changes first? (How does a normal double Mega Evolution speed tie work? Does it compare their pe-Mega Evolution stats or their post-Mega Evolution stats?)
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  • Mind Blown gives you recoil should you miss, if protected by Wonder Guard, and also if it's absorbed by the likes of Flash Fire. It does not give recoil if it's negated by Powder, beside the fixed Powder damage, nor during heavy rain.
  • Clangorous Soulblaze's stat boosts are affected by Sheer Force, Contrary, and Simple respectively. Basically like how it affects Extreme Eeveeboost.
 
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