Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion

[Gary]

The victini analysis is pretty outdated, as it has a choic Evans set on its analysis and the overview makes it appear that victim is niche is a wall breaker, which it's not. Obviously, victinis niche is a sweeper with Z celebrate.

The overview has actually been touched up to reflect the Z Celebrate set. The CB set could be moved to OO though and I can try to make it sound more about Celebrate.

Done. CB set was moved to OO, overview focuses solely on Z Celebrate, and C&C has been touched up only to reflect Celebrate as well.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Alowaks analysis is pretty outdated, as the analysis says its niche is to check a group of Pokémon like tapu koko, white being a wall and stall breaker. Alowak can’t break stall anymore thanks to quagsire, and its not a reliable check at all to tapu koko and magearna. I would change the analysis to say it’s niche is on trick room teams, because alowak is super hard to fit on teams orherwise and there are much better wall breakers that require less support.

 

[lydian]

Alowaks analysis is pretty outdated, as the analysis says its niche is to check a group of Pokémon like tapu koko, white being a wall and stall breaker. Alowak can’t break stall anymore thanks to quagsire, and its not a reliable check at all to tapu koko and magearna. I would change the analysis to say it’s niche is on trick room teams, because alowak is super hard to fit on teams orherwise and there are much better wall breakers that require less support.

It can break stall still, Quagsire is barely 2HKO'd by Shadow Bone:

252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

meaning that Quagsire switching in will be forced to Recover the turn after, meaning Alolan Marowak can fish for Defense drops if Quag switches in directly, as Earthquake does 78% max, meaning Marowak needs some chip damage for Quag to be able to deal with it. Well, Quagsire can't switch in then, but I guess it beats it 1v1 if it is send out after a KO, but even then, sacrificing a team member makes it easier for Marowak's teammates to deal with Quag. I mean, Quag is for sure a huge annoyance for Marowak, but it is far from unbeatable. As for its niche only being on Trick Room I disagree with that as well, it is tough to fit in, but it can still work on Bulky Offense, providing a decent switch in to Magearna and Koko. It might need a revamp still, idk, but I just want to point out that Trick Room isn't its only niche.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

I say chandelure needs a revamp. It’s analysis is describing its main niche as an offensive check to Charizard Y as well as 6 v 0 balance. Charizard Y is pretty much irrelevant now and even when you do find it, it’s always paired with tyranitar. Right now, it’s main niche is to 6 v 0 balance only, and that would require a rewrite because te analysis was written when 6 v 0ing Charizard Y balance was it’s main niche.

 

[Jordy]

I say chandelure needs a revamp. It’s analysis is describing its main niche as an offensive check to Charizard Y as well as 6 v 0 balance. Charizard Y is pretty much irrelevant now and even when you do find it, it’s always paired with tyranitar. Right now, it’s main niche is to 6 v 0 balance only, and that would require a rewrite because te analysis was written when 6 v 0ing Charizard Y balance was it’s main niche.

zard y now has one mention lol, i dont rly see whats wrong with it mentioning zard y by the way because it is in fact still the best offensive switch in.

 

[Gary]

I say chandelure needs a revamp. It’s analysis is describing its main niche as an offensive check to Charizard Y as well as 6 v 0 balance. Charizard Y is pretty much irrelevant now and even when you do find it, it’s always paired with tyranitar. Right now, it’s main niche is to 6 v 0 balance only, and that would require a rewrite because te analysis was written when 6 v 0ing Charizard Y balance was it’s main niche.

Yeah even before, there were only two mentions, one in the overview, and one in the usage tips. Despite Zard Y being way less relevant, Chandy is still in fact one of the only Pokemon that can switch into Zard-Y and pose as a massive threat offensively, so I'm not removing that from the overview. It's not like Zard-Y is entirely unranked either. 90% of the analysis focuses on Chandy's ability as a strong offensive holepuncher, not as a Zard-Y switch-in. A revamp would be a bunch of unnecessary work.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Yeah even before, there were only two mentions, one in the overview, and one in the usage tips. Despite Zard Y being way less relevant, Chandy is still in fact one of the only Pokemon that can switch into Zard-Y and pose as a massive threat offensively, so I'm not removing that from the overview. It's not like Zard-Y is entirely unranked either. 90% of the analysis focuses on Chandy's ability as a strong offensive holepuncher, not as a Zard-Y switch-in. A revamp would be a bunch of unnecessary work.

All true words I guess. My apology’s.
Edit: But Zard Y is always paired with tyranitar. I find that because tyranitar can pursuit trap chandy, I find chandy to be an unreliable check to Zard Y.
You are right thogugh that it probably doesn’t need a revamp and I overdramatized the Zard Y need.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

On the lando t analysis, the last line at the overview is slightly exaggerating Landorus therians splashabilty. While it is indeed an amazing pokemon that can fit into a lot of teams, there are plenty of teams that preform well without it, like stall, trick room, rain, and balance. I would change it into a conclusion that is something along the lines of being the best Pokémon in the tier and how it should always be prepared for, and how you should always consider using it when teambuilding.

 

[Gary]

On the lando t analysis, the last line at the overview is slightly exaggerating Landorus therians splashabilty. While it is indeed an amazing pokemon that can fit into a lot of teams, there are plenty of teams that preform well without it, like stall, trick room, rain, and balance. I would change it into a conclusion that is something along the lines of being the best Pokémon in the tier and how it should always be prepared for, and how you should always consider using it when teambuilding.

Considering Lando-T has over 75% usage in Snake tour, I fail to see how that's an exaggeration. Lando-T is used on practically every team bar very specific builds such as the ones you mentioned. I think it's perfectly justified to call it essential on almost any team. Hell some stall builds are even bringing Lando-T now for shit like CB T-tar. Some rains have run it as well. There just aren't that many instances where you wont be using it. Lando-T is also a staple on a lot of balance teams so idk what you're talking about.

Actually now that I think about, TR is the only archetype you don't see Lando on, but that's not common enough to remove that sentence from its overview.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Considering Lando-T has over 75% usage in Snake tour, I fail to see how that's an exaggeration. Lando-T is used on practically every team bar very specific builds such as the ones you mentioned. I think it's perfectly justified to call it essential on almost any team. Hell some stall builds are even bringing Lando-T now for shit like CB T-tar. Some rains have run it as well. There just aren't that many instances where you wont be using it. Lando-T is also a staple on a lot of balance teams so idk what you're talking about.

Actually now that I think about, TR is the only archetype you don't see Lando on, but that's not common enough to remove that sentence from its overview.

I never said it wasn’t insanely splashable and couldn’t fit into a lot of teams. I should have been more clear on that. I was just saying that new players may think Landorus therian is a nessecity, which while it is great for a lot of builds, isn’t 100% nessecary for a good team. Like you indirectly mentioned, there are good teams that don’t have Landorus therian, as lando doesn’t have 100% usage in official tournaments. And some balance builds can live without Landorus therian. An example isn’t Ash greninja TDK balance. I was just suggesting to slightly tone it down to essential on almost every team like you said, as the analysis says that it’s essential on every team.

 

[AM]

Nobody reads overviews and the fluff added to please imaginary people anyways. They grab the set, check if the evs do anything specific if its not 252/252/4 read the team options, skim through checks and counters then hop on ladder to hit 1400 at most, realize their team is booty then go the sample teams thread, tour replay threads, a youtuber vid, or rmt to steal some shit.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

On the charizard analysis, I would remove heatran from the checks and counter section. It can Wall charizard x without earthquake and charizard y without focus blast, but with that arena trap ban, pretty much every charizard y carry’s focus blast not just for heatran, but for the rising tyranitar. The best charizard x set right now is the roost +3 attack’s set. While DD is still viable, it is much less common than before on charizard x, and the ones that do often carry earthquake.

 

[Jordy]

On the charizard analysis, I would remove heatran from the checks and counter section. It can Wall charizard x without earthquake and charizard y without focus blast, but with that arena trap ban, pretty much every charizard y carry’s focus blast not just for heatran, but for the rising tyranitar. The best charizard x set right now is the roost +3 attack’s set. While DD is still viable, it is much less common than before on charizard x, and the ones that do often carry earthquake.

this means its a check bc it can wall certain variants lol ur describing it as if they mean its a counter.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

this means its a check bc it can wall certain variants lol ur describing it as if they mean its a counter.

I saying that Heatran is a mediocre soft check at best becuase it can only check non earthquake variants, which basically every Zard X runs right now, as basically every Zard Y runs focus blast. So that’s why it’s not a good check at all and should be axed.

 

[Leo]

I saying that Heatran is a mediocre soft check at best becuase it can only check non earthquake variants, which basically every Zard X runs right now, as basically every Zard Y runs focus blast. So that’s why it’s not a good check at all and should be axed.

Dragon Dance / Flare Blitz / Dragon Claw / Roost is still a set slashed with Earthquake that does lose to Heatran and Focus Blast Zard Y doesnt ko SpD Heatran, which can Toxic in return, Protect and switch out, forcing mindgames while Toxic damage racks up. This is a decent enough check for me, not sure what the rest thinks

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Dragon Dance / Flare Blitz / Dragon Claw / Roost is still a set slashed with Earthquake that does lose to Heatran and Focus Blast Zard Y doesnt ko SpD Heatran, which can Toxic in return, Protect and switch out, forcing mindgames while Toxic damage racks up. This is a decent enough check for me, not sure what the rest thinks

Charizard Y always 2hkos after stealth rock with focus blast, (well unless if focus miss strikes again). So I wouldn’t consider that that good of a check. Charizard x almost always carries earthquake, like I know it’s slashed, but focus punch is on mawile, and FP is almost never seen on Mega Mawile.

 

[Leo]

Charizard Y always 2hkos after stealth rock with focus blast, (well unless if focus miss strikes again). So I wouldn’t consider that that good of a check. Charizard x almost always carries earthquake, like I know it’s slashed, but focus punch is on mawile, and FP is almost never seen on Mega Mawile.

What does this mean? A check isn't a Pokemon that can switch into a threat and beat it, that's the definition of a counter

 

[Flame from Heaven]

What does this mean? A check isn't a Pokemon that can switch into a threat and beat it, that's the definition of a counter

What I meant was that Heatran isn’t a very good defensive check becuase both charizard forms have a way to beat it. Heatran isn’t that good of an offensive check either as it is outsped and can’t do much back to Zard Y, and gets outsped and smashed by earthquake by charizard x.

 

[Leo]

What I meant was that Heatran isn’t a very good defensive check becuase both charizard forms have a way to beat it. Heatran isn’t that good of an offensive check either as it is outsped and can’t do much back to Zard Y, and gets outsped and smashed by earthquake by charizard x.

Look, it either is a check or it isn't. If it is a check, which is what I'm implying, there's little reason to remove it. If it isn't, which would mean both Charizard forms beat it 1v1 100% of the time then provide solid reasoning and it will be removed

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Look, it either is a check or it isn't. If it is a check, which is what I'm implying, there's little reason to remove it. If it isn't, which would mean both Charizard forms beat it 1v1 100% of the time then provide solid reasoning and it will be removed

I understand. I tend to overdramatize things, a bad habit of mine. I will try to not let this happen again. Thank you for listening, and I’m sorry for wasting your time.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

On the zygarde analysis, it lists Buzzwole in the checks and counters section. Since it’s unranked, it should be removed.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

On the C&C section on the alakazam analysis, It lists mega aerodactyl as a pursuit user. Since mega aerodactly isn’t that relevant and doesn’t even use pursuit that much, I would remove it from the pursuit section.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

On the sucker resists part at the C&C section at the mawile analysis, it mentions CB Terrakion.
WTH.
Requesting it to be removed or replaced with a relevant sucker resist, like offensive magearna.

 

[Flame from Heaven]

Magearna gets smashed by Fire Fang and can't OHKO maw, so something like CB Tyranitar with Earthquake, would probably be better; although, Sucker Punch resists that fit the criteria for checking Mawile are difficult to find. You could still say like Electrium, Steelium or Fightinium Magearna ig, but those sets are pretty lackluster atm as is.

It’s true that they are difficult to find, but selling a BW relic as viable In the metagame can be confusing. I was merely stating a replacement if the QC team felt there had to be me more than three sucker resists in the section. If I were in charge, I would just remove it. CB tyranitar is probably a better replacement though.

 

[Gary]

I just went ahead and replaced it with CB T-tar. Mawile was originally written very early in SM when CB Terrakion was somewhat relevant, so obviously there are going to be a few dated stuff that I've missed over time.