I disagree with rai moving up to S. This is because although rai is a big threat and needs to be prepared for, every team carries a check and is able to deal with rai in one way or another. It could be a revenge scarfer, a sleep absorber, what have you, but it stops rai none the less. It definitely needs to be accounted for when building a team, but it is not very difficult to deal with. In addition you said that rai is a "good switch-in to Arceus-Ghost" which is not the case as you must be wary of focus blast which deals a huge amount of damage, and if it's SD shadow force also deals big damage and has a chance of OHKOing at +2, while Brick Break guaranteed OHKOs at +2. Rai has to be very wary switching in to ghostceus and relies heavily on prediction. Also, what would be the point of moving it to S when it's already at the top of A+? It's basically already there, and moving it up two spots wouldn't make a very big difference. Darkrai is fine at the placing it's at now, since it already shows how big of a threat it is. So yeah keep rai where it is.
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Gen 5 Ubers BW2 Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Aquasition
- Start date
I disagree with rai moving up to S. This is because although rai is a big threat and needs to be prepared for, every team carries a check and is able to deal with rai in one way or another. It could be a revenge scarfer, a sleep absorber, what have you, but it stops rai none the less. It definitely needs to be accounted for when building a team, but it is not very difficult to deal with. In addition you said that rai is a "good switch-in to Arceus-Ghost" which is not the case as you must be wary of focus blast which deals a huge amount of damage, and if it's SD shadow force also deals big damage and has a chance of OHKOing at +2, while Brick Break guaranteed OHKOs at +2. Rai has to be very wary switching in to ghostceus and relies heavily on prediction. Also, what would be the point of moving it to S when it's already at the top of A+? It's basically already there, and moving it up two spots wouldn't make a very big difference. Darkrai is fine at the placing it's at now, since it already shows how big of a threat it is. So yeah keep rai where it is.
Nominatingfor C-. I know the prominence of Kyogre in this metagame and the fact that it is affected by every entry hazard known to humankind in such a hazard-centric metagame really fucks it over. However, because its STAB is boosted by the sun, it is still capable of winning Calm Mind wars with other Arceus formes when the sun is up, which redeems it somewhat; Fire is also a fair offensive typing that has nice neutral coverage and hits the omnipresent Genesect super-effectively(!!!) It's not even that helpless against Kyogre, as it can hit the whale for decent damage on the switch-in with moves like Thunder and simultaneously threaten it with paralysis. I know it really isn't that great, but D is too low for it in my opinion. Bottom of C- would probably be good for it.
Here are some replays of it in action.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-353706008
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-320935628
Edit: Can Thundurus-T be unranked? It was recently deemed to be unfit for an analysis.
I don't see anyone trying to debate your argument, and I can see why you'd want it moved. It does have a niche, as crazy as that niche is. This thing seems as useful as Arceus-Ice, so Moving to C-.
Well, if Thundy-T was deemed unfit for an analysis, I don't see why it should be ranked anymore. Unranking
Well, Arceus-Elec does have the whole "TTar+Exca" thing to deal with, as well, as well as more pokemon that potentially outspeed, but it's a decent choice on rain offense as a special sweeper, though there is the existence of Arceus-Ghost. Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with the reasoning. Moving to B-
Now, as for Abom, that thing at least checks Kyogre, but in a hazards meta, it is a bit of a liability, as it doesn't really stop hazards too well, and it's mostly outclassed by Ferro, mainly having hail as its advantage.
Bitches didn't put Arceus-Normal S-Rank. 'Tis all.
On Ekiller:
Reasons why I think Extremekiller deserves to be above D- Rank:
- It's the Ubernoob mon meaning that the majority of new players use it so we have to prepare for it.
- Can sweep unprepared teams if it crits a Shadow Claw.
- It can do this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 220-261 (78.2 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- One of the few offensive Arceus Ho-Oh dislikes.
Now, why I think it is an inferior offensive Arceus:
- Loses 1v1 to Ghost Arceus unless it has Shadow Force or crits Shadow Claw on the speedtie if Jolly.
- It needs to be Adamant to do dmg, meaning it would lose the speed game vs Ghost Arceus everytime, see point above.
- The whole meta is desgined to check Ekiller. Groudon, Gira, Ghost on offense. Forry, Ghost, Hippo, Ogre,etc.. on Balance. It's very easy to fit an Ekiller check.
- Diagnosed with The Mewtwo Syndrome: Hard to fit or justify because it doesn't do anything for any team most of the time but it simply looks cool or on paper you think it's good.
Reasons why I think Extremekiller deserves to be above D- Rank:
- It's the Ubernoob mon meaning that the majority of new players use it so we have to prepare for it.
- Can sweep unprepared teams if it crits a Shadow Claw.
- It can do this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darkrai: 220-261 (78.2 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- One of the few offensive Arceus Ho-Oh dislikes.
Now, why I think it is an inferior offensive Arceus:
- Loses 1v1 to Ghost Arceus unless it has Shadow Force or crits Shadow Claw on the speedtie if Jolly.
- It needs to be Adamant to do dmg, meaning it would lose the speed game vs Ghost Arceus everytime, see point above.
- The whole meta is desgined to check Ekiller. Groudon, Gira, Ghost on offense. Forry, Ghost, Hippo, Ogre,etc.. on Balance. It's very easy to fit an Ekiller check.
- Diagnosed with The Mewtwo Syndrome: Hard to fit or justify because it doesn't do anything for any team most of the time but it simply looks cool or on paper you think it's good.
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Ekiller on sun offense has proven to be insanely difficult to stop for even prepared teams. And even so, many teams are very reliant on mons such as Giratina-O to stop it, which has a 21.25 % chance to outright lose due to a crit or dtail miss. Checks are easy to fit on teams but for most it takes rather little chip damage to get by some and barely anything outright OHKOs it (even for offensive teams). Offensive teams will always risk getting swept and I don't think there are many mons that obliges you to keep some of your mons at certain percents just because of the chance your opponent might have it.
I personally find Fightceus or Ghostceus more useful (albeit obviously not as threatening in practice, unless Ghostceus hits all Focus Blasts), and obviously the third most viable Arceus-forme doesn't belong in S-rank rank.
I think Edgar brings up most of the relevant points, tho I disagree with the Ghostceus stuff. On a hazardless field, Ghostceus only 2hkos Ekiller about 15 % of the time and that's excluding SForce or Sclaw crits (and jolly, which funnily enough has a slightly lower chance to beat Ghostceus). If SR is up, which is to be expected in BW2, Ekiller still wins 51 % of the time excluding a favorable Sclaw crit (jolly is much better on a hazardless field, halving Ghostceus' odds). So yea being slower than Ghostceus isn't necessarily always bad.
With Ekiller I don't think there is much need to overexaggerate what it can do, nor do I think it's constructive to downtalk what it fails at. All in all it's BW2s most threatening sweeper but unlike in ORAS that doesn't mean that it's the best mon in the game.
I personally find Fightceus or Ghostceus more useful (albeit obviously not as threatening in practice, unless Ghostceus hits all Focus Blasts), and obviously the third most viable Arceus-forme doesn't belong in S-rank rank.
I think Edgar brings up most of the relevant points, tho I disagree with the Ghostceus stuff. On a hazardless field, Ghostceus only 2hkos Ekiller about 15 % of the time and that's excluding SForce or Sclaw crits (and jolly, which funnily enough has a slightly lower chance to beat Ghostceus). If SR is up, which is to be expected in BW2, Ekiller still wins 51 % of the time excluding a favorable Sclaw crit (jolly is much better on a hazardless field, halving Ghostceus' odds). So yea being slower than Ghostceus isn't necessarily always bad.
With Ekiller I don't think there is much need to overexaggerate what it can do, nor do I think it's constructive to downtalk what it fails at. All in all it's BW2s most threatening sweeper but unlike in ORAS that doesn't mean that it's the best mon in the game.
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I think Manaphy should be way higher. Like, Low B at the least. It can destroy a lot of stall teams, and it does pretty well vs. a lot of balanced teams as well. With Wacan Berry you can lure and beat a ton of Choice Scarf users in the tier, with Rest and Hydration you don't give a fuck about status and can heal all of your damage at any time you want. Tail Glowing up, killing a scarf Zekrom/Kyogre/Palkia and then resting is quite feasible, and you have a nice base 100 speed tier to boot. Beating Ferrothorn isn't even that hard, considering some of them don't run Power Whip, and eventually if you burn it/it's at low enough percentage you can either just pick it off or Tail Glow twice, Rest up and kill it. It's not a top tier mon by any means but I certainly think it's quite a bit better than mons like Reshiram, Shiftry and Arceus-Flying.
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