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Type Optimisation
- Thread starter Solarblade
- Start date
- Status
Rock / Normal: The Reptile
Rock: Yoshiblaze
Rock / Fire: Yoshiblaze
Rock: Yoshiblaze
Rock / Fire: Yoshiblaze
Rock: Solarblade
Rock/Normal: Solarblade
Rock/Fire: Ludicrosity
Rock/Normal: Solarblade
Rock/Fire: Ludicrosity
Rock- Solarblade
Rock/Normal- The Reptile
Rock/Fire- Tiksi
Rock/Normal- The Reptile
Rock/Fire- Tiksi
Here is asuggestion for the next slate.
All of these Ice combos have been done, but all of them have huge drawbacks that make the pokemon next to useless.
All of these Ice combos have been done, but all of them have huge drawbacks that make the pokemon next to useless.
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Has been done with Articuno and Delibird. Delibird has absolutely crap stats, and the typing doesn't help it, and Articuno is a defensive based
type. Not very helpful.
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Has been done with the Aurorus line. Aurorus has bad stats all round, except for HP (again, defensive
type). 99 SpA is just pitiful, and on such a frail typing too
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Has been done with the Alolan Sandslash line. Alolan Sandslash just doesn't have the speed to work well.
mixes two typings with completely different roles.
being offensive, and
being defensive. The typing also leaves the mon vulnerable to
and
, two of the most offensive types in the game.
Normal/Rock - The Reptile
Fire/Rock - Tiski
Rock - Yoshiblaze
Fire/Rock - Tiski
Rock - Yoshiblaze
Lets get down to earth with my suggestion. Get it? They're all Ground-type? Well, that pun wasn't exactly grounded in solid humor... perhaps "soiled" would be more appropriate? Anyways, I understand if I didn't exactly floor you in laughter.
Ground/Rock: A typing famous for its defensive shortcomings in Pokemon like Golem, but one with massive potential offensively. Come on, you actually get STAB on both of Edgequake!
Ground/Ice: Mamoswine is far from bad, but it doesn't quite have the speed, power, or pizzaz to exploit this godly offensive typing. No Flier besides Skarmory will dare switch in on this, and even then...
Ground/Fairy: You're going to stop my Fairies with your Poisons and Steels? Have fun taking Earthquakes/Powers off this beastly combination. Far from bad defensively as well, with great resistances like Dragon/Electric/Rock and a neutrality to Poison.
Ground/Rock: A typing famous for its defensive shortcomings in Pokemon like Golem, but one with massive potential offensively. Come on, you actually get STAB on both of Edgequake!
Ground/Ice: Mamoswine is far from bad, but it doesn't quite have the speed, power, or pizzaz to exploit this godly offensive typing. No Flier besides Skarmory will dare switch in on this, and even then...
Ground/Fairy: You're going to stop my Fairies with your Poisons and Steels? Have fun taking Earthquakes/Powers off this beastly combination. Far from bad defensively as well, with great resistances like Dragon/Electric/Rock and a neutrality to Poison.
Here's my suggestion for the next slate: The Combat Slate.
Fighting: There isn't a pure Fighting-type that got enough bulk or speed or even power in general to be even good in OU. Machamp is decent, but not fast or bulky enough, Hariyama's Defense and Special Defense are not high enough to make its HP potent enough and had limited movepool, Primeape is both not strong enough and too frail, and Conkeldurr and Throh had to rely on Guts to be good. Oh, and Sawk had the same problem with Primeape.
Fighting/Ice: Crabominable would be at least decent if it is not slow and frail. Even the aforementioned Fighting-type can do better than this! This type combination would be best as a fast, sweeping physical attacker. Or even a mixed sweeper, but never a defensive slowpoke (pun intended).
Fighting/Dragon: Kommo-o is also a disappointment. It is not fast enough to sweep, and neither attacking stats are good enough to be an actual wallbreaker. Worse, it also suffer a lot from Fairy-type without coverage. Like the above, it will work a lot of better as a fast sweeper, except this time, with coverage to get Fairies away from this.
Fighting: There isn't a pure Fighting-type that got enough bulk or speed or even power in general to be even good in OU. Machamp is decent, but not fast or bulky enough, Hariyama's Defense and Special Defense are not high enough to make its HP potent enough and had limited movepool, Primeape is both not strong enough and too frail, and Conkeldurr and Throh had to rely on Guts to be good. Oh, and Sawk had the same problem with Primeape.
Fighting/Ice: Crabominable would be at least decent if it is not slow and frail. Even the aforementioned Fighting-type can do better than this! This type combination would be best as a fast, sweeping physical attacker. Or even a mixed sweeper, but never a defensive slowpoke (pun intended).
Fighting/Dragon: Kommo-o is also a disappointment. It is not fast enough to sweep, and neither attacking stats are good enough to be an actual wallbreaker. Worse, it also suffer a lot from Fairy-type without coverage. Like the above, it will work a lot of better as a fast sweeper, except this time, with coverage to get Fairies away from this.
Rock: Tiksi
Rock/Fire: Tiksi
Rock/Normal: Ludicrousity
I'll keep this open for a bit for about less than a day just to get more votes.
As for the next slates, I already have a line-up planned and Ice is going to be next. Thanks for the thoughts though, we will get through each type eventually!
Rock/Fire: Tiksi
Rock/Normal: Ludicrousity
I'll keep this open for a bit for about less than a day just to get more votes.
As for the next slates, I already have a line-up planned and Ice is going to be next. Thanks for the thoughts though, we will get through each type eventually!
Okay voting's closed!
Congratulations to:
The Reptile's Rock/Normal Lycanroc
Tiksi's Rock/Fire Emboar
Also for Rock there is a tie between Solarblade's Bastiodon and Yoshiblaze's Regirock- so we will have a 24 hour tiebreaker. Vote for which of the two you prefer.
Feel free to discuss the impact of these two retyped Pokemon in the metagame.
In the meantime, submissions for the next slate are now open:
Congratulations to:
The Reptile's Rock/Normal Lycanroc
Tiksi's Rock/Fire Emboar
Also for Rock there is a tie between Solarblade's Bastiodon and Yoshiblaze's Regirock- so we will have a 24 hour tiebreaker. Vote for which of the two you prefer.
Feel free to discuss the impact of these two retyped Pokemon in the metagame.
In the meantime, submissions for the next slate are now open:
.:Slate 2:.
Ice, Ice/Rock, Ice/Poison
Submission Ends: 23rd of May
Ice, Ice/Rock, Ice/Poison
Submission Ends: 23rd of May
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Yoshiblaze
is an extremely offensive type, due to the fact that it has 4 weaknesses, and a resist to only itself. However, on offense, it is super effective against 4 things, and only 4 things resist it, everything else is neutral.
Pokemon: Vanilluxe
Type:
BST: 51 (-20) / 135 (+40) / 65 (-20) / 135 (+25) / 65 (-30) / 119 (+40)
Abilities: Skill Link / Technician / Snow Warning
New Moves: Thunderbolt, Electro Ball
Justification/Niche: A glass Cannon to say the least. mixed 135 Atk, Adaptability and moves like Ice Shard and Blizzard. Skill Link allows for a 125 BP move in the form of Icicle Spear, and Snow Warning allows it to keep it's niche as a weather setter
is a very offensive typing, due to it having 6 weaknesses and only 4 resists. 2 of the weaknesses are also 4x weaknesses.
Pokemon: Glalie
Type:
BST: 60 (-20) / 160 (+80) / 60 (-20) / 70 (-10) / 60 (-20) / 160 (+80)
Abilities: Sturdy / Adaptability / Sheer Force
New Moves: Shell Smash, Rock Slide
Justification/Niche: Very fast mon with the ability to Sturdy Shell Smash, then destroy everything with 160 / 160 offences, moves like Ice Fang, Ice Shard, Rock Slide, Return, EQ, Crunch and Iron Head. You can also not go Sturdy Smash, and use Sheer Force on moves like: Ice Fang, Rock Slide, Crunch and Iron Head. It sadly doesn't get any better of a physical Ice move.
Type:
BST: 60 / 180 (+20) / 75 (+15) / 120 (+50) / 75 (+15) / 160
Ability: Pressure (To not make it too OP)
Justification/Niche: This pokemon is pretty strong, with 180 Atk and 160 Speed, it can outspeed a lot and OHKO it too (although it's ice STAB is weak). It has similar Atk to Kartana, and similar speed to Ninjask. It can run special sets, but it has to run HP Rock for Special Rock STAB. It can use the Sturdy Shell Smash before megas aswell to make it extremely difficult to outspeed.
Pokemon: Vanilluxe
Type:
BST: 51 (-20) / 135 (+40) / 65 (-20) / 135 (+25) / 65 (-30) / 119 (+40)
Abilities: Skill Link / Technician / Snow Warning
New Moves: Thunderbolt, Electro Ball
Justification/Niche: A glass Cannon to say the least. mixed 135 Atk, Adaptability and moves like Ice Shard and Blizzard. Skill Link allows for a 125 BP move in the form of Icicle Spear, and Snow Warning allows it to keep it's niche as a weather setter
Pokemon: Glalie
Type:
BST: 60 (-20) / 160 (+80) / 60 (-20) / 70 (-10) / 60 (-20) / 160 (+80)
Abilities: Sturdy / Adaptability / Sheer Force
New Moves: Shell Smash, Rock Slide
Justification/Niche: Very fast mon with the ability to Sturdy Shell Smash, then destroy everything with 160 / 160 offences, moves like Ice Fang, Ice Shard, Rock Slide, Return, EQ, Crunch and Iron Head. You can also not go Sturdy Smash, and use Sheer Force on moves like: Ice Fang, Rock Slide, Crunch and Iron Head. It sadly doesn't get any better of a physical Ice move.
Type:
BST: 60 / 180 (+20) / 75 (+15) / 120 (+50) / 75 (+15) / 160
Ability: Pressure (To not make it too OP)
Justification/Niche: This pokemon is pretty strong, with 180 Atk and 160 Speed, it can outspeed a lot and OHKO it too (although it's ice STAB is weak). It has similar Atk to Kartana, and similar speed to Ninjask. It can run special sets, but it has to run HP Rock for Special Rock STAB. It can use the Sturdy Shell Smash before megas aswell to make it extremely difficult to outspeed.
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Are we allowed to buff Hail?Okay voting's closed!
Congratulations to:
The Reptile's Rock/Normal Lycanroc
Tiksi's Rock/Fire Emboar
Also for Rock there is a tie between Solarblade's Bastiodon and Yoshiblaze's Regirock- so we will have a 24 hour tiebreaker. Vote for which of the two you prefer.
Feel free to discuss the impact of these two retyped Pokemon in the metagame.
In the meantime, submissions for the next slate are now open:
.:Slate 2:.
Ice, Ice/Rock, Ice/Poison
Submission Ends: 23rd of May
Also, tiebreaker vote goes to Yoshiblaze
Pokemon: Barbaracle
Type: Rock/Ice
BST: 90/130/95/90/80/85 (BST: 570)
Abilities: Though Claws/Sturdy (HA: Swift Swim)
New Moves: Rock Blast, Ice Shard, Ice Hammer
Justification/Niche: Since Ice/Rock is such a fragile typing, it's one of the type combinations that has more weaknesses, I decided to make this Pokémon super-offensive. It can use Shell Smash without even using a Focus Sash, so you can use that item slot for a White Herb, and sweep. It can harm Dragon/Flying types, other Ice types and even some Fire types.
Sample moveset:
- Shell Smash Sweeper:
Barbaracle @ White Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Ice Hammer
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Ice Shard / Razor Shell /Earthquake
- Rain Sweeper:
Barbaracle @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Razor Shell
- Filler / Swords Dance
Type: Rock/Ice
BST: 90/130/95/90/80/85 (BST: 570)
Abilities: Though Claws/Sturdy (HA: Swift Swim)
New Moves: Rock Blast, Ice Shard, Ice Hammer
Justification/Niche: Since Ice/Rock is such a fragile typing, it's one of the type combinations that has more weaknesses, I decided to make this Pokémon super-offensive. It can use Shell Smash without even using a Focus Sash, so you can use that item slot for a White Herb, and sweep. It can harm Dragon/Flying types, other Ice types and even some Fire types.
Sample moveset:
- Shell Smash Sweeper:
Barbaracle @ White Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Ice Hammer
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Ice Shard / Razor Shell /Earthquake
- Rain Sweeper:
Barbaracle @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Razor Shell
- Filler / Swords Dance
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Froslass
Stats: 66 / 71 / 66 / 142 / 106 / 116 (567 BST)
Abilities: Corrosision / Snow Cloak / Snow Warning (HA)
New Moves: Acid Spray, Sludge Wave, Toxic Spikes
Justification/Niche: Froslass's stats reflect the ideal Ice/Poison Pokémon, a fast and frail Special Attacker. Corrosion gives Froslass a way to wear down Steel-types (its main counters/checks), Snow Cloak is for flavor, and Snow Warning also wears down Steel-types with the chip damage. Essencially, the goal here is to have a fast, powerful glass cannon, that can't overcome a certain typing (in this case Steel-types), but can wear Steels down thanks to Chip damage between Toxic or Hail and Spikes. That's way I chose Froslass, it has no coverage to beat Steel-types but has the potential to chip at thems.
Stats: 66 / 71 / 66 / 142 / 106 / 116 (567 BST)
Abilities: Corrosision / Snow Cloak / Snow Warning (HA)
New Moves: Acid Spray, Sludge Wave, Toxic Spikes
Justification/Niche: Froslass's stats reflect the ideal Ice/Poison Pokémon, a fast and frail Special Attacker. Corrosion gives Froslass a way to wear down Steel-types (its main counters/checks), Snow Cloak is for flavor, and Snow Warning also wears down Steel-types with the chip damage. Essencially, the goal here is to have a fast, powerful glass cannon, that can't overcome a certain typing (in this case Steel-types), but can wear Steels down thanks to Chip damage between Toxic or Hail and Spikes. That's way I chose Froslass, it has no coverage to beat Steel-types but has the potential to chip at thems.
Hazard Lead
Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning / Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond / Toxic / Toxic Spikes
All-Out Attacker
Froslass (F) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning / Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Destiny Bond / Spikes / Toxic
Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning / Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond / Toxic / Toxic Spikes
All-Out Attacker
Froslass (F) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning / Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Destiny Bond / Spikes / Toxic
voting for Solarblade
Pokemon: Cryogonal
Type:
BST: 70 / 50 / 30 / 105 (+10) / 120 (-15) / 115 (+10) [BST 490]
Abilities: Levitate / Magic Bounce (HA)
New Moves: Focus Blast, Taunt, Nasty Plot
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: With 115 speed and 105 SpA, Cryogonal can try and act as a decent special sweeper. Magic Bounce lets it act similar to Espeon and, alongside Nasty Plot and Taunt, can let Cryogonal act as a sort of stallbreaker.
Sample moveset
Pokemon: Vanilluxe
Type:
BST: 61 (-10) / 115 (+20) / 70 (-15) / 115 (+5) / 70 (-25) / 104 (+25) [BST 535]
Abilities: Ice Body / Refrigerate / Snow Warning (HA)
New Moves: Power Gem, Rock Slide, Stone Edge
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: A deceptively powerful mixed attacker, Vanilluxe has enough speed and power to be a threat with its powerful STAB combination. The real strength of Vanilluxe is that it can attack from either side of the spectrum, making it rather difficult to wall. At the very least, you have access to Refrigerate Explosion on a non-mega.
Sample moveset
Pokemon: Sandslash-Alola
Type:
BST: 75 / 120 (+20) / 120 / 55 (+30) / 75 (+10) / 75 (+10) [BST 520]
Abilities: Snow Cloak / Poison Point / Slush Rush (HA)
New Moves: Toxic Spikes, Ice Shard, Gunk Shot
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: With a relatively high 120 attack and decent enough bulk, it can become a menacing Slush Rusher. Ice / Poison is relatively interesting as a typing, having 2 notable resistances in Fairy and Ice without any 4x weaknesses.
Sample moveset
Pokemon: Cryogonal
Type:
BST: 70 / 50 / 30 / 105 (+10) / 120 (-15) / 115 (+10) [BST 490]
Abilities: Levitate / Magic Bounce (HA)
New Moves: Focus Blast, Taunt, Nasty Plot
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: With 115 speed and 105 SpA, Cryogonal can try and act as a decent special sweeper. Magic Bounce lets it act similar to Espeon and, alongside Nasty Plot and Taunt, can let Cryogonal act as a sort of stallbreaker.
Sample moveset
Code:
Stallbreaker (Cryogonal) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Recover
Offensive Spinner (Cryogonal) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Freeze-Dry
Nasty Plot Sweeper (Cryogonal) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Freeze-DryPokemon: Vanilluxe
Type:
BST: 61 (-10) / 115 (+20) / 70 (-15) / 115 (+5) / 70 (-25) / 104 (+25) [BST 535]
Abilities: Ice Body / Refrigerate / Snow Warning (HA)
New Moves: Power Gem, Rock Slide, Stone Edge
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: A deceptively powerful mixed attacker, Vanilluxe has enough speed and power to be a threat with its powerful STAB combination. The real strength of Vanilluxe is that it can attack from either side of the spectrum, making it rather difficult to wall. At the very least, you have access to Refrigerate Explosion on a non-mega.
Sample moveset
Code:
Special Attacker (Vanilluxe) @ Life Orb / Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Power Gem
- Freeze-Dry
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Taunt
Physical Attacker (Vanilluxe) @ Life Orb / Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Return
- Stone Edge
- Ice Shard / Taunt
- Explosion / TauntPokemon: Sandslash-Alola
Type:
BST: 75 / 120 (+20) / 120 / 55 (+30) / 75 (+10) / 75 (+10) [BST 520]
Abilities: Snow Cloak / Poison Point / Slush Rush (HA)
New Moves: Toxic Spikes, Ice Shard, Gunk Shot
Removed Moves: none
Justification/Niche: With a relatively high 120 attack and decent enough bulk, it can become a menacing Slush Rusher. Ice / Poison is relatively interesting as a typing, having 2 notable resistances in Fairy and Ice without any 4x weaknesses.
Sample moveset
Code:
Slush Rush Sweeper (Sandslash-Alola) @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard / Gunk Shot / Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance / Gunk Shot / Rapid Spin
Voting For Solarblade
Pokemon: Cloyster
Type: Ice/Rock
BST: 80/105/190/40/85/70 BST: 570
Abilities: Shell Armor /Skill Link / Rock Head
New Moves: Head Smash, Accelerock, Bone Rush
Removed Moves: None
Justification/Niche: Cloyster's sweeping/wallbreaking abilities just went up a notch. With increased defensive stats, it can now shell smash much easier, and with it's boosted attack and more coverage moves. Bone Rush with skill link becomes stronger than Earthquake, while Rock Head Head Smash can do heavy damage to a lot of things.
Movesets:
Pokemon: Cloyster
Type: Ice/Rock
BST: 80/105/190/40/85/70 BST: 570
Abilities: Shell Armor /Skill Link / Rock Head
New Moves: Head Smash, Accelerock, Bone Rush
Removed Moves: None
Justification/Niche: Cloyster's sweeping/wallbreaking abilities just went up a notch. With increased defensive stats, it can now shell smash much easier, and with it's boosted attack and more coverage moves. Bone Rush with skill link becomes stronger than Earthquake, while Rock Head Head Smash can do heavy damage to a lot of things.
Movesets:
Shell Smash (Cloyster) @ White Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Bone Rush
Choice Band (Cloyster) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Icicle Crash
- Accelerock
- Bone Rush
Utility (Cloyster) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Head Smash
- Ice Shard
- Spikes
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Bone Rush
Choice Band (Cloyster) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Icicle Crash
- Accelerock
- Bone Rush
Utility (Cloyster) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Head Smash
- Ice Shard
- Spikes
Edit: Ah someone made Cloyster already, it didn't appear when I was writing the comment. Is there a problem with keeping both up or should I change mine?
Pokemon: Cloyster
Type: Ice/Rock
BST: 50/110/160/70/90/90
Abilities: Sheel Armor/Skill Link (Water Absorb)
New Moves: Stone Edge, Bone Rush, Accelrock
Removed Moves: All water moves except Clamp, Dive, Razor Shell, Rain Dance and Withdraw
Justification/Niche: Skill Link Rock Blast. That's the first thing to come to my mind when I saw Rock/Ice. You'll use it just like regular Cloyster, but with Stab Rock Blast and new coverage
Pokemon: Arbok
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 90/135/80/65/80/120
Abilities: Shed Skin/Intimidate (Sheer Force)
New Moves: (Icicle Crash, Ice Shard, Icicle Spear
Justification/Niche: So, when you look at it, it has no Ice personalities whatsoever. However, "You don't have to go with flavour- the priority is to optimise the typing!". Arbok has always been one of my favorite mons, and it has decent coverage. With a good offensive presence of 135/120 and okay defenses at 90/80/80. It also has Earthquake, so Steel-Types don't stop it. In fact, Ground/Poison/Ice is a good coverage. It has Sheer Force Poison Jab/Gunk Shot and Icicle Crash (As well as Crunch if you want to use that but EQ is probably better).
Never really noticed how few Ice-Types there are. Also while seeking (And failing) for mons to do this I ended up finding out that Smoochum has more Sp. Atk than Alolan Ninetales lol
Pokemon: Cloyster
Type: Ice/Rock
BST: 50/110/160/70/90/90
Abilities: Sheel Armor/Skill Link (Water Absorb)
New Moves: Stone Edge, Bone Rush, Accelrock
Removed Moves: All water moves except Clamp, Dive, Razor Shell, Rain Dance and Withdraw
Justification/Niche: Skill Link Rock Blast. That's the first thing to come to my mind when I saw Rock/Ice. You'll use it just like regular Cloyster, but with Stab Rock Blast and new coverage
Pokemon: Arbok
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 90/135/80/65/80/120
Abilities: Shed Skin/Intimidate (Sheer Force)
New Moves: (Icicle Crash, Ice Shard, Icicle Spear
Justification/Niche: So, when you look at it, it has no Ice personalities whatsoever. However, "You don't have to go with flavour- the priority is to optimise the typing!". Arbok has always been one of my favorite mons, and it has decent coverage. With a good offensive presence of 135/120 and okay defenses at 90/80/80. It also has Earthquake, so Steel-Types don't stop it. In fact, Ground/Poison/Ice is a good coverage. It has Sheer Force Poison Jab/Gunk Shot and Icicle Crash (As well as Crunch if you want to use that but EQ is probably better).
Pokemon:
Type: xx/xx
BST: xx/xx/xx/xx/xx/xx
Abilities: (max of 3)
New Moves: (max of 3)
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Type: xx/xx
BST: xx/xx/xx/xx/xx/xx
Abilities: (max of 3)
New Moves: (max of 3)
Removed Moves: (optional, if you don't feel it makes sense with new typing)
Justification/Niche:
Never really noticed how few Ice-Types there are. Also while seeking (And failing) for mons to do this I ended up finding out that Smoochum has more Sp. Atk than Alolan Ninetales lol
Last edited:
Starting with Ice/Poison, it's a pretty interesting typing. Poison is an overall decent typing, while Ice is a great offensive typing but terrible defensive typing. When you combine the two, you get a meh defensive typing (5 weaknesses and 4 resistances) and a pretty good offensive typing, having great neutral coverage and almost all of the things that resist it are weak to Ground or Dark/Ghost.
YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE TOXIC
Pokemon: Jynx
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 85 (+20) / 50 / 95 (+60) / 135 (+20) / 95 / 110 (+15) (570 BST)
Abilities: Forewarn / Compound Eyes / Competitive (HA)
New Moves: Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave
Removed Moves: Miracle Eye, Magic Room, Reflect, Psywave, Zen Headbutt
Justification/Niche: Jynx here, with 135 SpAtk, 110 Speed, Lovely Kiss to put the opponent to sleep and give you time to setup with Nasty Plot, is one threatening sweeper, as 135 SpAtk at +2 with great Ice + Poison coverage is crazy. Or, since this Jynx has decent 85/95/95 bulk, a Nasty Plot + 3 attacks with even better Ice/Poison/Ground (or Ghost or Psychic) coverage, can be very effective. Or, heck, get perfect neutral coverage with a Choice Scarf or Specs set with ALL THE COVERAGE. 2 good abilities in Compound Eyes, boosting the accuracy of Blizzard and Lovely Kiss, and Competitive, making Jynx a Defogger's (or Landorus') worst nightmare, let's Jynx do it's job even better.
YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE TOXIC
Pokemon: Jynx
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 85 (+20) / 50 / 95 (+60) / 135 (+20) / 95 / 110 (+15) (570 BST)
Abilities: Forewarn / Compound Eyes / Competitive (HA)
New Moves: Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave
Removed Moves: Miracle Eye, Magic Room, Reflect, Psywave, Zen Headbutt
Justification/Niche: Jynx here, with 135 SpAtk, 110 Speed, Lovely Kiss to put the opponent to sleep and give you time to setup with Nasty Plot, is one threatening sweeper, as 135 SpAtk at +2 with great Ice + Poison coverage is crazy. Or, since this Jynx has decent 85/95/95 bulk, a Nasty Plot + 3 attacks with even better Ice/Poison/Ground (or Ghost or Psychic) coverage, can be very effective. Or, heck, get perfect neutral coverage with a Choice Scarf or Specs set with ALL THE COVERAGE. 2 good abilities in Compound Eyes, boosting the accuracy of Blizzard and Lovely Kiss, and Competitive, making Jynx a Defogger's (or Landorus') worst nightmare, let's Jynx do it's job even better.
Nasty Plot:
Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Lovely Kiss / Earth Power / Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
Choiced Defog Deter-er:
Jynx (F) @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball / Psyshock
Z-Lovely Kiss / Z-Hail:
Jynx (F) @ Normalium Z / Icium Z
Ability: Compound Eyes / Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Lovely Kiss / Hail
- Nasty Plot / Earth Power
Z-Lovely Kiss and Z-Hail raise Speed by 1
Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Lovely Kiss / Earth Power / Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
Choiced Defog Deter-er:
Jynx (F) @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball / Psyshock
Z-Lovely Kiss / Z-Hail:
Jynx (F) @ Normalium Z / Icium Z
Ability: Compound Eyes / Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Lovely Kiss / Hail
- Nasty Plot / Earth Power
Z-Lovely Kiss and Z-Hail raise Speed by 1
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For the Z-Hail set, you should probably list Icium Z as Hail is an Ice move.Starting with Ice/Poison, it's a pretty interesting typing. Poison is an overall decent typing, while Ice is a great offensive typing but terrible defensive typing. When you combine the two, you get a meh defensive typing (5 weaknesses and 4 resistances) and a pretty good offensive typing, having great neutral coverage and almost all of the things that resist it are weak to Ground or Dark/Ghost.
YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE TOXIC
Pokemon: Jynx
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 85 (+20) / 50 / 95 (+60) / 135 (+20) / 95 / 110 (+15) (570 BST)
Abilities: Forewarn / Compound Eyes / Competitive (HA)
New Moves: Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave
Removed Moves: Miracle Eye, Magic Room, Reflect, Psywave, Zen Headbutt
Justification/Niche: Jynx here, with 135 SpAtk, 110 Speed, Lovely Kiss to put the opponent to sleep and give you time to setup with Nasty Plot, is one threatening sweeper, as 135 SpAtk at +2 with great Ice + Poison coverage is crazy. Or, since this Jynx has decent 85/95/95 bulk, a Nasty Plot + 3 attacks with even better Ice/Poison/Ground (or Ghost or Psychic) coverage, can be very effective. Or, heck, get perfect neutral coverage with a Choice Scarf or Specs set with ALL THE COVERAGE. 2 good abilities in Compound Eyes, boosting the accuracy of Blizzard and Lovely Kiss, and Competitive, making Jynx a Defogger's (or Landorus') worst nightmare, let's Jynx do it's job even better.
Nasty Plot:
Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Lovely Kiss / Earth Power / Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
Choiced Defog Deter-er:
Jynx (F) @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball / Psyshock
Z-Lovely Kiss / Z-Hail:
Jynx (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Compound Eyes / Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Sludge Wave / Earth Power
- Lovely Kiss / Hail
- Nasty Plot / Earth Power
Z-Lovely Kiss and Z-Hail raise Speed by 1
Pokemon: Cryogonal
Type: Ice/Poison
Base Stats: 135/95/100/50/50/115 (BST 545) (SpD swap/SpA swap/HP swap+20/Atk swap/Def swap/+10)
Abilities: Levitate/Levitate/Corrosion
New Moves: Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Icicle Crash
Removed Moves: Attract, Aurora Veil
Justification/Niche: A lot of hazard setters are on the physical end of the spectrum, so Cryogonal should be physically defensive to complement its role as a hazard control Pokemon. Its newfound hefty physical bulk allows it to take non-stab Stone Edges with ease, and Levitate makes Earthquake a non-issue. Corrosion was chosen as a hidden ability to allow Cryogonal to beat bulky steels with Toxic, but it comes at the cost of being weak to Earthquake. 115 speed allows this thing to act as a scary stallbreaker as well, with most stall builds losing to Taunt+Toxic+Recover+Icicle Crash.
Physical and Special attack were swapped to take advantage of Cryogonal's surprisingly diverse physical movepool(Knock Off, Acrobatics, Poison Jab), while I shuffled around the defensive stats to make Cryo as physically bulky as possible.
Sample moveset:
Rapid Spin (Cryogonal) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate / Corrosion
EVs: 148 HP / 144 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard / Toxic / Knock Off
Type: Ice/Poison
Base Stats: 135/95/100/50/50/115 (BST 545) (SpD swap/SpA swap/HP swap+20/Atk swap/Def swap/+10)
Abilities: Levitate/Levitate/Corrosion
New Moves: Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Icicle Crash
Removed Moves: Attract, Aurora Veil
Justification/Niche: A lot of hazard setters are on the physical end of the spectrum, so Cryogonal should be physically defensive to complement its role as a hazard control Pokemon. Its newfound hefty physical bulk allows it to take non-stab Stone Edges with ease, and Levitate makes Earthquake a non-issue. Corrosion was chosen as a hidden ability to allow Cryogonal to beat bulky steels with Toxic, but it comes at the cost of being weak to Earthquake. 115 speed allows this thing to act as a scary stallbreaker as well, with most stall builds losing to Taunt+Toxic+Recover+Icicle Crash.
Physical and Special attack were swapped to take advantage of Cryogonal's surprisingly diverse physical movepool(Knock Off, Acrobatics, Poison Jab), while I shuffled around the defensive stats to make Cryo as physically bulky as possible.
Sample moveset:
Rapid Spin (Cryogonal) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate / Corrosion
EVs: 148 HP / 144 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard / Toxic / Knock Off
Pokemon: Carbink
Type: Rock/Ice
Base Stats: 140/100/50/100/50/130 BST 570 (+90/+50/-100/+50/-100/+80)
Abilities: Serene Grace/Sturdy/Snow Warning
New Moves: Blizzard, Earthquake, Diamond Storm
Removed Moves: Moonblast
Justification/Niche: REALLY fast Calm Mind user. Also has actual bulk. This is a shameless ripoff of Stat Switch Carbink, and about as close to it as I can get(despite being 130 BST short, I feel like I did a decent job). Even though Carbink only has base 100 offenses, it has high BP moves to make up for that and has enough bulk to set up a Calm Mind even if it isn't using Sturdy. You could also just go for rocks but screw you for being unoriginal.
Type: Rock/Ice
Base Stats: 140/100/50/100/50/130 BST 570 (+90/+50/-100/+50/-100/+80)
Abilities: Serene Grace/Sturdy/Snow Warning
New Moves: Blizzard, Earthquake, Diamond Storm
Removed Moves: Moonblast
Justification/Niche: REALLY fast Calm Mind user. Also has actual bulk. This is a shameless ripoff of Stat Switch Carbink, and about as close to it as I can get(despite being 130 BST short, I feel like I did a decent job). Even though Carbink only has base 100 offenses, it has high BP moves to make up for that and has enough bulk to set up a Calm Mind even if it isn't using Sturdy. You could also just go for rocks but screw you for being unoriginal.
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(EDIT: Dang it, just noticed this dumb typo. I clearly wasn't in my right mind when I wrote that part of the post.)
Pokemon: Glaceon
Type: Ice
BST: 65/95/65/110/60/130 (525 total)
Abilities: Adaptability / Magic Guard
New Moves: Freeze-Dry, Icicle Crash, Aura Sphere
Justification/Niche: Glaceon has always been overshadowed compared to the other -eons due to its low Speed and poor defensive typing. Ice is a glass cannon typing, so why not orient Glaceon as such? (Of course, as a -eon, it still has the same stat values, just arranged in a different manner.) Freeze-Dry and Aura Sphere fix its lacking coverage, while Icicle Crash gives it usable physical STAB as a potential surprise factor alongside Z-Dig. Its Ability choices are both great; Adaptability allows it to make the most of its STAB, while Magic Guard grants it cost-free Life Orb while protecting it from hazards. All in all, a high Speed tier with decent offensive potential turns Glaceon into the sort of threat that it ought to be.
Sample movesets:
Glaceon @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability / Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry / Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere
- Baton Pass
Glaceon @ Groundium Z
Ability: Adaptability / Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Dig
- Ice Shard / Aqua Tail
- Baton Pass
Ability: Adaptability / Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry / Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere
- Baton Pass
Glaceon @ Groundium Z
Ability: Adaptability / Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Dig
- Ice Shard / Aqua Tail
- Baton Pass
Pokemon: Delibird
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 55/115/55/105/55/125 (510 total)
Abilities: Vital Spirit / Soundproof / No Guard
New Moves: Icicle Crash, Sludge Bomb, Poison Jab
Removed Moves: Splash (not even gonna bother imagining what Z-Splash would be like on this thing)
Justification/Niche: Why Poison-type Delibird? I dunno, why does it get Gunk Shot? There are plenty of mysteries surrounding Delibird, particularly its movepool, its access to both Vital Spirit and Insomnia in vanilla, and the fact that it comes relatively late in its game of origin but has a terrible stat line. Speaking of, the revamp of its stats keeps the fast-but-frail and all-base-stats-divisible-by-5 themes, but now it's less weak to Stealth Rock (granted it's vulnerable to Spikes, but at least it can dispel T-Spikes without having to use Rapid Spin) and has been scaled to thrive in a higher-tier environment. Vital Spirit protects it from the possibility of Sleep leads, Soundproof allows it to become an effective SubPuncher (at least as much as it can), and No Guard complements its low accuracy STAB moves.
Sample movesets:
Delibird @ Focus Sash
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk/SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Icicle Crash / Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Destiny Bond / Poison Jab / Sludge Bomb
Delibird @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Icicle Crash
- Poison Jab
Delibird @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk/SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Timid Nature
- Icicle Crash / Blizzard
- Gunk Shot / Sludge Bomb
- Seed Bomb / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Destiny Bond / Brick Break / Freeze-Dry
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk/SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Icicle Crash / Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Destiny Bond / Poison Jab / Sludge Bomb
Delibird @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Icicle Crash
- Poison Jab
Delibird @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk/SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Timid Nature
- Icicle Crash / Blizzard
- Gunk Shot / Sludge Bomb
- Seed Bomb / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Destiny Bond / Brick Break / Freeze-Dry
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Tiebreaker is over. Winner for Rock is Solarblade's Bastiodon!
It's fine. As you said, there's not many Ice types anyway, plus as long as you're not identically copying another person's post it should be fine.
Reviloja753 No, we'll just work with what we have from the games. So Hail stays at it is (unfortunately), but we just have to be creative in optimising the Ice types instead
Ludicrousity As strange as this will sound, the type/stat changes will not extend to the megas (it's in the OP). The idea is to just experiment with each type as a stand alone 'normal' pokemon and not a mega- to see how we could play with stats/type to create niches and utilise each type's resistances.
So just for the purposes of research it's better to just ignore the megas.
It's fine. As you said, there's not many Ice types anyway, plus as long as you're not identically copying another person's post it should be fine.
Reviloja753 No, we'll just work with what we have from the games. So Hail stays at it is (unfortunately), but we just have to be creative in optimising the Ice types instead
Ludicrousity As strange as this will sound, the type/stat changes will not extend to the megas (it's in the OP). The idea is to just experiment with each type as a stand alone 'normal' pokemon and not a mega- to see how we could play with stats/type to create niches and utilise each type's resistances.
So just for the purposes of research it's better to just ignore the megas.
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Pokemon: Regice
Type: Ice
BST: 100/40/100/100/200/30 (BST: 570)
Abilities: Clear Body / Regenerator (HA)
New Moves: Recover, Power Gem
Justification/Niche: Regice was held back to a horrible weakness to many typings in general, weakness to Stealth Rock, and a lack of recovery that doesn't let it utilize its good Special Bulk. Now, it has good physical bulk, still outstanding special bulk, access to recovery, and Regenerator leaves it much better off against Stealth Rock, healing it every time it switches. Its typing still sucks though.
...should I town this down a bit, or is a pure Ice typing enough of a hindrance to it? I also feel like it could be setup bait for some sweepers, since its SpAtk stat isn't really that great.
Pokemon: Glalie
Type: Ice/Rock
BST: 50/110/50/110/50/110 (BST: 480)
Abilities: Ice Body, Clear Body, Solid Rock(HA)
New Moves: Stealth Rock
Justification/Niche: This Glalie is actually not designed to be a mixed attacker, like his stats suggest, but more of a suicide lead. It has access to Spikes and Stealth Rock, as well as Taunt to mess with Defog users and Explosion to keep momentum up for offensive teams. A better Speed tier allows it to get off more hazards than normal, while a good Attack/SpAtk makes it so it isn't complete Taunt bait if it opts to run Freeze Dry over Spikes or Stealth Rock. Most people probably wouldn't want to run Freeze Dry on it, though, so it probably makes for Taunt bait if you can't Taunt the opponent first.
Pokemon: Nihilego
Type: Ice/Poison
BST: 97/47/47/139/137/103 (BST: 570)
Abilities: Beast Boost
New Moves: Ice Beam, Ice Shard, Powder Snow (i dunno whether we're doing flavor moves or not, i only really needed ice beam anyways)
Justification/Niche: Nihilego is a great Pokemon on its own, so it's hard to make it better without making it broken, so most of its changes are very minor to it. But now, it has a very good STAB move for a choice user in Ice! Other Ice Pokemon that are getting changes in this metagame won't want to switch on a Power Gem, while Ground Pokemon that normally came in for free on Nihilego now can't switch in on a STAB Ice Beam. This makes it a much better Choice Item user. Steel types are still everywhere, at least in OU, so it still keeps its biggest counter, and having them force it out hurts it more since it's weak to Stealth Rock, but I feel these changes are still good for it.
EDIT: Crap someone already did the glalie idea
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