But pulling off the combo is fun, and this is a game. People aren't obligated to run the "technically best" option on everything, and it's not the only way to win, either.
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Pokémon Toxapex
- Thread starter Samoyed
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But pulling off the combo is fun, and this is a game. People aren't obligated to run the "technically best" option on everything, and it's not the only way to win, either.
It may be a game but this is a competitive forum, dedicated to finding the best and most helpful uses for each pokemon. If you want just-for-fun sets, I don't think this is the place to discuss them. Merciless Toxipex is bad, has already been investigated thoroughly to find that conclusion, and will be called out as such.
Considering metagross can be messed up by scald burns I'd say no.
Its really hard to find a counter to toxapex, rest talk m-slowbro maybe? It's hard to take out a toxapex or prevent a toxapex from existing in a game due to regenerator.
Hmm ok. By the way I just wanted to point out that this is incorrect:
252 SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 204-242 (67.1 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 204-242 (67.1 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
A counter would probably be Mega-Venu since it can't be poisoned, absorbs Toxic Spikes, and it doesn't care about Scald.
Wouldn't Toxapex just be able to PP stall it out though? Most Mega-Venu sets have 2 moves that are only 8 PP each.
I wouldn't exactly call something that switches in and all it can do is stay there and do nothing a counter. But well, at least Toxapex cannot really wear it down outside of a weak burn.
Well vena's only recovery move has 8 PP and toxapex's is 16 PP + regenerator. Toxapex can easily wear it down and outstall with a burn.
Ok I think I found the best counter: Mega-Alakazam with Taunt.
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 206-246 (67.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Whereas Toxapex:
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 55-66 (21.9 - 26.2%) -- 6.1% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 206-246 (67.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Whereas Toxapex:
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 55-66 (21.9 - 26.2%) -- 6.1% chance to 4HKO
more then discussing just competitive I feel that smogon disscussions always revolve around the meta as a whole. So it doesnt seem out of place to disscuss how non optimal sets fair in ou or sets becomeing more optimal as the meta\team needs change. banefullbunker is not optimal on most teams but that doesnt mean that there aren't situations where the extra black sludge reg and scouting fits the team dynamic better.
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You're right, there is some merit to featuring lesser sets. However, "this is a game/it doesn't need to be good/it's just for fun" is not a sound justification. There needs to be a good reason that fits the purpose of this forum.
Tapu Fini can switch in as often as it wants (can't be statused, not gonna calc but resisted scald from Toxapex likely does less than leftovers recovery lol) and can wear it down with Taunt+Nature's Madness. ofc it can switch out and regenerate back but that applies to everything.
Toxapex will just switch out of threats like these, so if you want it removed quickly you need to lure or trap it. I find Groundium-Z Dugtrio does this just fine when paired with Pheromosa, who lures in Toxapex and gives Dugtrio the free switch-in it needs.
252 Atk Dugtrio Tectonic Rage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 264-312 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Toxapex should never stay in on Tapu Fini. If Tapu Fini happens to use whirlpool, Toxapex is guranteed to die. Whirlpool Tapu Fini isn't common yet, but it tears stall to pieces, so defensive mons need to beware.
Even if it doesn't have whirlpool, Toxapex is still not going to get anything done against Tapu Fini (taunt, defog, misty terrain), so it should switch to something threatening.
They both suffer from Electric, tho?
sure, but you completely counter lando-i (exept for the smack-down set which loses one important coverange move so i think it is subpar). I saw alola-maro+cele+toxa and they basically check, or even counter in some cases, a lot of top tier OU threats.
I meant with all its forms of recovery. With regenerator and recover this thing is hard to take down
He said there are situations where Bunker can be useful. And it can. That every other turn Toxic stalling can buy you some KOs you'd normally never get. He didn't say it's "just for dumb funsies!" But it shouldn't be slapped on every set. You can use Protect if you want to avoid putting ghetto poison on them too.
relaxed toxapex allows slowbro to outspeed you and quagsire speed ties. most of the time ur just gonna toxic them both, recover off the damage dealt (in quagsires case its not gonna do much) safely and then just go back and gain health back with regen. its easier to do this since ur not gonna risk getting outsped twice and hit with supereffective stabs (in slowbro's case, if its running psychic, i think it has a legitimate shot at a 2hko) its not that important since both of them arent used as much (specially slowbro), but still its a nice advantage.
plus no point in losing speed when ur not running a physical move. if for whatever reason u decide to use liquidation or something like that then just run impish.
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I think once the hype dies down slowbro will go back to being pretty common.
Cool! Thanks for the explanation.
I don't know about that. Tapu Koko and Tapu Bulu both slaughter slowbro, new ghost types and both forms of conversion porygon z endanger it, and ultrabeasts like xurkitree and buzzwole can destroy it.
Not that toxapex is always better, but its typing resists bug and fairy and is not weak to grass, dark, or ghost. The tradeoff is psychic and ground weaknesses, but tapu bulu can weaken earthquake, and psychic types all have shadow ball (maybe less soon because aegi ban) as coverage anyways, so there's not a huge reason to use slowbro yet.
Had a random thought about a move that I think doesn't see the light of day (usually) and ran some calcs...
~Set has 148 evs in Hp, 172 in def, and 186 in sp.attk. Haven't seen that ev spread for vaporeon before but it's listed as 'common.' The original set for vaporeon with these Evs has the moves: Scald, Icy wind, Ice beam, and Muddy water.~
0+ SpA Vaporeon Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 80-96 (50.9 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
186+ SpA Vaporeon Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 94-112 (59.8 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
186+ SpA Vaporeon Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 78-94 (49.6 - 59.8%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
With that spread, perhaps a moveset of Scald, Protect/Heal Bell, Wish, and Synchronoise could work if your team dislikes Toxapex.
Bruxish gets the move too but psychic fangs is way better for it from what I can tell. Sadly no poison types get Synchronoise and the only other water type that has access to the move is Golduck.
~Set has 148 evs in Hp, 172 in def, and 186 in sp.attk. Haven't seen that ev spread for vaporeon before but it's listed as 'common.' The original set for vaporeon with these Evs has the moves: Scald, Icy wind, Ice beam, and Muddy water.~
0+ SpA Vaporeon Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 80-96 (50.9 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
186+ SpA Vaporeon Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 94-112 (59.8 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
186+ SpA Vaporeon Synchronoise vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 78-94 (49.6 - 59.8%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
With that spread, perhaps a moveset of Scald, Protect/Heal Bell, Wish, and Synchronoise could work if your team dislikes Toxapex.
Bruxish gets the move too but psychic fangs is way better for it from what I can tell. Sadly no poison types get Synchronoise and the only other water type that has access to the move is Golduck.
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