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Tornadus-T (QC 0/3) (WIP)

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Chiming in about Thundurus and Focus Blast.

You can't even compare Tornadus-T to Thundurus-T. Why? Because one has a 95 BP 100 acc STAB move. Guess which that one is. The difference is that Tornadus-T needs Rain to work well, where as Thundurus-T is utterly different in that it works well in any weather. That's why Rain Dance is a good idea, so you can actually use your STAB.

Now on Focus Blast / Superpower, my response is why are the side effects or Superpower being neglected? PK, it's great that you can 2HKO that stuff, but what if there's two things you need to hit with Superpower? Tornadus is dead in the water then and needs to switch. It also drops Defense, allowing you to be more easily picked off by stuff like Scizor and even Breloom. 70 acc sucks, but so does -1 / -1. Superpower also makes you run a -(S)Def nature, meaning you're even frailer..sorry, but not even Regenerator is gonna help with that.
 
I didn't read all the thread but I'm against superpower on Tornadus-T.

Since Tornadus-T with LO OHKO many Pokemon such as Haxrous, Landorus or I don't know ( so many btw ) it means that he might be a pretty good revenge killer or finisher so why would you run a move which won't give you an OHKO on Magnezone or Hydreigon (for exemple) or not even a 2HKO on Heatran?

You are talking about Tyranitar. Chople berry Tyranitar came first because of Thundurus at the begining of BW. Now, There is Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T and I'm pretty sure we will notice a come back of chople berry Tyranitar. Do you really want to take risk considering that with the drop on Defense Tyranitar can finish you ( Turn 1 knowing that Tornadus-T is necessary for victory?)

In a match up against rain with Magnezone, is there many Pokemon who can deal with him? After revengekilling a Pokemon I personnaly want to continu my series of KO and Focus blast helps a lot in late game.

Superpower is a very good option on Tornadus V1 because it offers him many OHKO but it's not the case of Torna-T.
 
Rayquaza_ said:
Please replace "the best offensive type" with "one of the best". Let's not throw wildly exaggerated statements like that around without data to back them up.
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It is though for OU at least. To put it in perspective there are more Dragon resists in OU than Flying. Neutrality from such a high base power attack is what makes Dragons so great and one of the best. I would go as far to say that Flying is better than Dragon because not only does it hit more targets neutrally in OU than Dragon, but it has the ability to hit more targets super effectively.
 
Great work so far alexwolf.

Just wanted to chime in a little thought: I've had great success with Jolteon as a teammate for TT. Both are incrediby fast, both have STAB moves that work wonders in Rain, both can U-Turn/Volt Switch (even to eachother, considering that TT is immune to Ground and Jolteon is immune to Electric). These two hard hitters thus have excellent synergy together, both offensively and defensively. The fact that both fit snugly on Rain teams, and easily revenge kill the common and threatening Keldeo, is just a bonus.
 
Don't forget that Superpower 2HKOs EDIT: Blissey for you, which is quite important for a special attacker.

Anyway alexwolf, as by our discussion on IRC last night, I really don't think LO and Specs being separate are necessary. They play very similarly to each other. Like this:

[SET]
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Superpower / Focus Blast
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Taunt / Sleep Talk
item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
ability: Regenerator
nature: Naive / Timid
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

I don't think Tailwind deserves to be a slash at all, if you want to use it, you're much better off using normal Tornadus and getting Prankster on it. HP Ground is pretty meh, too.

The other thing we had a chat about was a Bulk Up set. While I'm not so keen on it, it does have merit, as it does have excellent Speed and good coverage to make it reasonably usable:

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Acrobatics
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Heat Wave
item: Flying Gem
ability: Regenerator
nature: Naive / Timid
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
 
Superpower doesn't come close to 2HKOing Chansey unless you use MAX attack, and even then you need SR. So it doesn't 2HKO the blobs, just Blissey.
 
So, Superpower is useless on the LO Set, what I said. Also, stop with sleeptalk on choice specs set please, please stop. Sleep talk is USELESS just delete this move. You can add something like HP Grass / HP Ground / Heat Wave and you're talking about sleep talk ? Nah, be serious 5 secs, please.
 
Ojama said:
So, Superpower is useless on the LO Set, what I said. Also, stop with sleeptalk on choice specs set please, please stop. Sleep talk is USELESS just delete this move. You can add something like HP Grass / HP Ground / Heat Wave and you're talking about sleep talk ? Nah, be serious 5 secs, please.
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I really don't get this. Tornadus has ZERO use for HP Grass. What's HP Ground for? Heatran? Focus Blast is infinetly better. Heat Wave is obviously redundant. Sleep Talk is a fantastic move for the last slot, simply because TT needs no other move there. Breloom and Amoonguss are insanely common, and having a Pokemon that can switch into them with impunit (ok not stone edge) and OHKO is invaluable. If sleep talk selects U-Turn, Regenerator just gives you health back. Specs Focus Blast i assume will OHKO breloom as well.

And I support Superpower on the LO set. Blissey completely walls you other wise, and Tyranitar can be one shotted. What's not to like?
 
Shrang I don't think merging the LO set and specs set is avwey good idea. Both sets play differently and run different moves, there is no reason to fuse 2 perfectly viable sets. Traditionally, choice sets have always been included in analysis for Pokemon who are fast & powerful... I don't see why we should stop now. In terms of practicality, both sets have legitimate pros & cons. It's not something that can be abridged into 1 set. I also want to hold off on talking about the Bulk Up set... we aren't even decided on the main set yet.

Now on Focus Blast / Superpower, my response is why are the side effects or Superpower being neglected? PK, it's great that you can 2HKO that stuff, but what if there's two things you need to hit with Superpower? Tornadus is dead in the water then and needs to switch. It also drops Defense, allowing you to be more easily picked off by stuff like Scizor and even Breloom. 70 acc sucks, but so does -1 / -1. Superpower also makes you run a -(S)Def nature, meaning you're even frailer..sorry, but not even Regenerator is gonna help with that.
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It's not just accuracy... Focus Blast offers no concrete advantages. No relevant, OHKOes or 2HKOes and it has poor accuracy. Superpower will always OHKO standard Tyranitars, it will 2HKO Blissey (i'm surprised this slipped my mind) and is capable of landing -1/-1 & a -SpD nature is superior to 70% accuracy. What are some concrete advantages of Focus Blast?!? I don't want to hear anything that can achieved by Superpower, nor do I want to hear something gimmicky.

To everyone that is advocating Focus Blast; you're too focused with "on the paper details" the instead of the result. If it were up to me, i'd have removed Focus Blast as a slash period, but I don't have complete say over it.

So, Superpower is useless on the LO Set, what I said. Also, stop with sleeptalk on choice specs set please, please stop. Sleep talk is USELESS just delete this move. You can add something like HP Grass / HP Ground / Heat Wave and you're talking about sleep talk ? Nah, be serious 5 secs, please.
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If after all this time you can't see why anyone would want to use Superpower then you need take a good hard look at yourself and stop being so obtuse. I've already gone over Superpower vs Focus Blast, so if you want to see why I think Superpower is better than Focus Blast please refer to page 1 of this thread.
 
Alright fine, after speaking to the rest of QC, here's how we want to see Specs:

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hurricane
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Air Slash / Heat Wave
item: Choice Specs
ability: Regenerator
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Sleep Talk can go into AC, IMO. Yes, Breloom is threatening, but you're just getting yourself into a dice-roll with it and that's just crappy. Air Slash, on the other hand, gives you a more reliable Flying-type STAB to play around with out of the rain, while Heat Wave lets you hit Jirachi and stuff hard if it's not raining as well.
 
Talked to QC, Sleep Talk is going to AC of the Choice Specs set, and Air Slash / Heat Wave will be in the fourth slot. Rain isn't always up, and it lets Tornadus-T do something useful in the sun too.

EDIT: oh shrang posted coolios
 
Hp Grass is usefull to hit Gastrodon. HP Ground hits Jirachi, one of Tornadus-T's best counters. There is no need to use Sleep Talk when you can use HP Grass / HP Ground / Heat Wave.
 
Getting locked into a Hidden Power sucks. Doubly so when it's one as terrible as Grass or Ground. They're specialized moves for very specific Pokemon, and a Choice Specs set simply wants to blast. Mentioning these specialized HPs makes sense in AC though, but with a warning as to why they're not good.
 
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