Don't worry, Dunsparce is going to be the tits in the lower tiers this gen. OU can keep it's Togekiss' and Jirachi's.
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Togekiss
- Thread starter norelationstojfk
- Start date
Don't worry, Dunsparce is going to be the tits in the lower tiers this gen. OU can keep it's Togekiss' and Jirachi's.
Jirachi's even worse, bawww.
But yes, Dunsparce'll be down there, waiting and watching. And just when you think it's safe to bring in that chandelier? Gonna get an AP boost on the switch and then flinch it to death with Bite. And then he'll be laughing all the way back down to NU.
But yes, Dunsparce'll be down there, waiting and watching. And just when you think it's safe to bring in that chandelier? Gonna get an AP boost on the switch and then flinch it to death with Bite. And then he'll be laughing all the way back down to NU.
Go back to using Unfezant, then.
Togekiss and jirachi both love abusing flinch hax. What give togekiss an edge is that it's harder to absorb an air slash than it is to absorb an iron head. There are quite a few pokemon in OU that resist steel, but not as many that resist air slash (or have decent special defense).
Another good point is that there are a lot more Pokemon in OU that are actually outright weak to Air Slash, and Iron Head can't hit a whole lot super effectively. Maybe just Terrakion, Weavile, and Mamoswine, but not much else is worth mentioning.
What I like about Togekiss is that it's simply a better immediate offensive force than Jirachi, who takes a little more time to become relatively threatening. Air Slash, Fire Blast, and Aura Sphere is a better package than Jirachi could ever hope for in a three-attack set, and its Speed and bulk is sufficient enough to weather and overcome most OU threats. In most situations, Nasty Plot > Calm Mind, though each of them wishes they had each other's moves.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
On serious note, I'll have to test Togekiss on my all Scarf team which is in dire need of a special attacker. Fire Blast will do a number on Ferrothorn, more so than Magnezone's pathetic Hidden Power Fire (although Ferro can switch out)...
I'm probably gonna get a lot of negative for this, but I always used a Bold XD Togekiss in Doubles and give it the moveset of Follow Me, Helping Hand, Tri Attack, and Air Slash. It's never had trouble with steels because it usually haxes them out and anything else just gets hit hard by STAB.
I've had some luck with a Togekiss in DW Ubers.
(That's all I really play, apart from CC.)
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Togekiss @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
Modest / 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
Tri Attack / Thunder Wave
Air Slash
Aura Sphere
Flamethrower / Roost / Ominous Wind
Tri Attack normally has a 30% total chance to inflict a status condition, but Serene Grace boosts that to 60%. That's given me some good Freeze- and Para-hax before. However, with Togekiss's mediocre speed, I like Thunder Wave more sometimes, which also assists in Air Slash's flinching. Aura Sphere is for coverage (and a super-effective hit on Darkrai, Arceus, and Dialga), and either Roost for the healing, or Ominous Wind for the 20% chance of raising ALL my stats by 1. That's happened 3 times in a row before, when I decided to take a bold move and lead with that thing. Aura Sphere, Air Slash, and Tri Attack killed the entire team. Lugia died to freezehax, then paraflinch hax. Mewtwo and Giratina-O got an OHKO from Ominous Wind. Scizor died to Aura Sphere, leftovers quickly healed the BP damage. Kyogre was out-sped and got severely injured from Air Slash, then flinched. Darkrai was easy bait for Aura Sphere.
Again, that's probably not going to happen for everyone. This is just an example set of how Serene Grace can really boost your winning chances (actually, it doubles that, along with everything else) and make your opponent burn, then freeze, then get paralyzed, then flinch, then cry, then faint, then forfeit.
(That's all I really play, apart from CC.)
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Togekiss @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
Modest / 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
Tri Attack / Thunder Wave
Air Slash
Aura Sphere
Flamethrower / Roost / Ominous Wind
Tri Attack normally has a 30% total chance to inflict a status condition, but Serene Grace boosts that to 60%. That's given me some good Freeze- and Para-hax before. However, with Togekiss's mediocre speed, I like Thunder Wave more sometimes, which also assists in Air Slash's flinching. Aura Sphere is for coverage (and a super-effective hit on Darkrai, Arceus, and Dialga), and either Roost for the healing, or Ominous Wind for the 20% chance of raising ALL my stats by 1. That's happened 3 times in a row before, when I decided to take a bold move and lead with that thing. Aura Sphere, Air Slash, and Tri Attack killed the entire team. Lugia died to freezehax, then paraflinch hax. Mewtwo and Giratina-O got an OHKO from Ominous Wind. Scizor died to Aura Sphere, leftovers quickly healed the BP damage. Kyogre was out-sped and got severely injured from Air Slash, then flinched. Darkrai was easy bait for Aura Sphere.
Again, that's probably not going to happen for everyone. This is just an example set of how Serene Grace can really boost your winning chances (actually, it doubles that, along with everything else) and make your opponent burn, then freeze, then get paralyzed, then flinch, then cry, then faint, then forfeit.
Its 20% boosted to 40% with Tri Attack. Nitpicking for the sake of the fact the odds are you not getting hax on instead of getting hax.
My fave Togekiss set is this one.
Togekiss
Modest
Leftovers
Don't know what EVs I had on it, it was ingame
Air Slash
Substitute
Roost
Thunder Wave
This worked really well for me. I've KO'd my friend's Scarf Typhlosion with this, one on one. (I know Typhlosion isn't great, and that my friend doesn't EV train, but he was using Eruption and his Typhlosion was ten levels higher than my Togekiss, so it kinda evens out.) This set uses Togekiss's natural bulk to the max, and it works against stall and offence. I use Substitute, then if my opponent has a major offensive team, I start shooting off TWaves, paralyze everything, and hit stuff with Air Slash. If it's stall, I will just try to keep the sub up as long as possible, all the while throwing Air Slashes about. The lack of type coverage doesn't matter too much, because the real good thing about this is the fact that it supports the team well, especially if you use an offensive team.
Togekiss
Modest
Leftovers
Don't know what EVs I had on it, it was ingame
Air Slash
Substitute
Roost
Thunder Wave
This worked really well for me. I've KO'd my friend's Scarf Typhlosion with this, one on one. (I know Typhlosion isn't great, and that my friend doesn't EV train, but he was using Eruption and his Typhlosion was ten levels higher than my Togekiss, so it kinda evens out.) This set uses Togekiss's natural bulk to the max, and it works against stall and offence. I use Substitute, then if my opponent has a major offensive team, I start shooting off TWaves, paralyze everything, and hit stuff with Air Slash. If it's stall, I will just try to keep the sub up as long as possible, all the while throwing Air Slashes about. The lack of type coverage doesn't matter too much, because the real good thing about this is the fact that it supports the team well, especially if you use an offensive team.
Is Togekiss usable in OU?
Of course it is. Rather than me listing why it is, what makes you think otherwise?
Stealth Rock Weak, outclassed by Jirachi... Its defenses are just sort of subpar with stuff like Terrakion running around.
Well, Jirachi has to use lolIron Head/Zen Headbutt for flinch hax while Togekiss gets good neutral coverage with Air Slash.
Togekiss also has access to Fire Blast, Nasty Plot, Aura Sphere, etc.
Think of Togekiss as a more offensive Jirachi....with less speed, bulk, and somewhat worse defensive typing :P
I used it for a while myself and I loved it. Just don't expect it to sweep an entire team or anything like that.
Good OU teammates? And set? I liked Body Slam/Air Slash/Roost/Aura Sphere or Fire Blast!
I'd run T-Wave over Body Slam- The damage of Body Slam is much less useful when you consider that you'll be running a -atk nature and have bad attack already. And Aura Sphere>>>>>Fire Blast on that set.
Myself, I prefer ScarfKiss, though I'm always at a loss as to what to put in the last slot- Lately, I've been going with Psyshock just in case of Bliss/Chancey. Though Baton Pass could work for scouting purposes.
Honestly, I would rather use Thunder Wave on Togekiss than Body Slam. Jirachi makes better use of Body Slam because it can't actually hit Electric-immune Pokemon with its chosen moves (i.e. Fire Punch and Iron Head), whereas Togekiss can simply finish off most Ground-types with its special moves. Togekiss also can't really afford to use Body Slam because it doesn't resist certain attack types (Jirachi is successful with Body Slam because it resists mostly Dragon-type attacks), and that 60 percent off a weak attack can really compromise the game. Bottom line: USE Thunder Wave because it's more reliable, and leave Body Slam to Jirachi.
Also, please, PLEASE don't use Psyshock on Togekiss or I'll get an ulcer. It doesn't hit the blobs for any notable damage because of the lack of STAB (use it for Azelf and Deoxys-S), and Togekiss can simply cripple them for the rest of the match using Trick.
Overall Togekiss is a total hidden gem, and is completely different from Jirachi offensively. On the support side, it differentiates itself with a recovery move, natural special bulk, and the ability to actually threaten certain types. After that, it has a Stealth Rock weakness and less substantial typinng; that's all.
Also, please, PLEASE don't use Psyshock on Togekiss or I'll get an ulcer. It doesn't hit the blobs for any notable damage because of the lack of STAB (use it for Azelf and Deoxys-S), and Togekiss can simply cripple them for the rest of the match using Trick.
Overall Togekiss is a total hidden gem, and is completely different from Jirachi offensively. On the support side, it differentiates itself with a recovery move, natural special bulk, and the ability to actually threaten certain types. After that, it has a Stealth Rock weakness and less substantial typinng; that's all.
I was never too keen on using trick on togekiss since I find that it sort of needs all four of its moveslots. Two of them are going to be dedicated to air slash and flamethrower/aura sphere, and the other two have to go to things like roost, nasty plot, thunder wave, tri attack, etc.
Togekiss can be used in OU, but it isn't making any waves. It's basically a chandelure with a worse offensive typing, the same speed, the same SR weakness, and a little added bulk that doesn't help much due to how hard you're being hit by all of the common threats in the metagame.
If you're still reading this post, then I will admit that that was one of the worst comparisons I have ever made. Offensively, togekiss struggles against nearly anything used in OU that has a higher base speed. Pokemon such as Starmie and Terrakion won't be directly switching into togekiss for fear of thunder wave, but nothing is stopping them from checking it. You're forced out by landorus and certain scarf rotom-W. With a scarf, you're still outsped by landorus and Rotom-W, who are the most popular scarf users themselves. Unless you're using nasty plot, aura sphere isn't breaking sp. def heatran before he breaks you. I could honestly go on for a while.
Not to say that togekiss is horrible. It's a fine pokemon and most of you realize its good points. Sure, the correct team support can allow you to use it on your team with little issues.
Togekiss can be used in OU, but it isn't making any waves. It's basically a chandelure with a worse offensive typing, the same speed, the same SR weakness, and a little added bulk that doesn't help much due to how hard you're being hit by all of the common threats in the metagame.
If you're still reading this post, then I will admit that that was one of the worst comparisons I have ever made. Offensively, togekiss struggles against nearly anything used in OU that has a higher base speed. Pokemon such as Starmie and Terrakion won't be directly switching into togekiss for fear of thunder wave, but nothing is stopping them from checking it. You're forced out by landorus and certain scarf rotom-W. With a scarf, you're still outsped by landorus and Rotom-W, who are the most popular scarf users themselves. Unless you're using nasty plot, aura sphere isn't breaking sp. def heatran before he breaks you. I could honestly go on for a while.
Not to say that togekiss is horrible. It's a fine pokemon and most of you realize its good points. Sure, the correct team support can allow you to use it on your team with little issues.
You can pretty much apply using teammates for any Pokemon, so it's all relative. The points you made also highlights Togekiss's issues in the current metagame, which I have to deal with. A lot. The flaws, as a result, give Togekiss little impact in the metagame, but that's all good. Like Mew and Raikou, it's a hidden gem.
I simply like using Togekiss when everybody and their mother's trying their hardest to keep their own sweeping Latias alive from stall and, god forbid, Scizor.
I simply like using Togekiss when everybody and their mother's trying their hardest to keep their own sweeping Latias alive from stall and, god forbid, Scizor.
Scarfkiss is amazing, though a lot of people would say it's too haxy/trolly. It takes on a huge amount of pokes, pretty much anything slower than it. It's got decent natural bulk, and flying is a great offensive type, especially when paired with fighting and fire. I like having trick in the last slot, mostly for blissey. Seriously, slap this thing on a team and try it out, you'll be surprised.
Togekiss gets Trick? Well. That changes things. :3
I have to agree. It's an unexpected threat which can counter or cripple a whole load of things
