Project The PU Theorymon Project [Week eighteen: Meganium]

[MZ]

approved by WhiteDMist
OP adopted from Mysteria
very very original by zebraiken
art by Dundies

What would happen if Mr. Mime got Vacuum Wave?​

Welcome to the Theorymon Project of 6th gen's PU. Here, every few days, we will be discussing a Pokemon or set which will have low to zero viability in PU, and all of which have could use a leg up. Posters will have a chance to suggest new typings, moves or abilities that could make these Pokemon or sets viable in the PU metagame. After five days of submission time, people will have two days to vote on the change that improves the pokemon/set the most without breaking it

Here are some general rules that each theorymon suggestion should follow:

• Only submit new typings, moves or abilities, or any combinations thereof. Do not make changes to base stats
• Don't make too many changes that totally change the pokemon/set, one or two buffs should be sufficient
• Ideally post your ideas in the form of new/changed sets that the mon can use
• Don’t suggest changes that make or may make a Pokemon broken
• Only theorymon ideas that could theoretically bring positives to the PU metagame and have useful implications will be picked, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon and other similar buffs.
• You can only add a secondary typing to Pokemon of one type, or change the second type of a dual-typed Pokemon. Eg. Adding a Grass type to Clefairy, or changing Togetic from Fairy / Flying to Fairy / (insert other type)
• Those changes should at the very least not contradict flavor. They don’t have to fit a Pokemon’s flavor perfectly, but don’t suggest a secondary Fire-type for Grass-types for example.
• You may reserve changes, but please post them within either 24 hours or before the voting begins
• Give a description why this change would make this mon/set more viable

Also, an advice to anyone that wants to submit a theorymon. Don't suggest mindless offensive buffs. The metagame is already very offensive and we don't need more powerhouses, such as Shell Smash Lapras. If you want to suggest something offensive, you should be sure that it could add something positive to the metagame and wouldn't be just one more powerful attacker.

For this reason, defensive buffs are just as valued as offensive ones. Give to not so viable Pokemon buffs that will allow them to successfully fill a defensive niche in the PU metagame. If your suggestion does that and doesn't contradict the flavor of the Pokemon, it's very likely to get voted for. This doesn't mean that suggestions about offensive buffs won't get chosen, just that they can provide something other than the obvious "But Huge Power Slaking would be so fun".

So, please before submitting your suggestion, take a second to think about how this suggestion will fit in the metagame. This thread is not so that we can talk about mindless buffs to random Pokemon, but for us to find ways to theoretically build the PU metagame by giving buffs to not so viable or completely unviable Pokemon or sets.

Our current subject is Meganium!
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[MZ]

week one: Magmar- Eevee General

Sheer Force and No Guard Magmar will be hard-pressed to stick around in PU. That's going to be the challenge with this project, since at least with OU theorymon you can't go any higher until you bump into Ubers, and that designation is a lot easier to "predict" than where a Pokemon will end up in the lower/est tiers.

Anyway, here's a change I suspect would stick around in PU and give Magmar a niche over other Fire-types:
+Poison typing, +Sludge Bomb, +Poison Jab
(If three changes are too much, forget Poison Jab)

Justification: It learns Smog, Clear Smog, and Belch naturally (and Smokescreen, which is Poisonous looking in the anime), so the stretch isn't that much farther to go full-Poison. Magmars hang around volcanoes all day which are constantly spewing out carbon dioxide and sulfur, so the gas has gone to its head. The artwork just needs a touch of smoke and some purple elements in its "horns" and you got yourself a Fire/Poison Magmar.

Weaknesses: Ground, Psychic, Rock, Water
Resistances: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Ice, Poison, Steel
Immunity: Burn, poison, sleep (Vital Spirit)

Theorymon: Vital Spirit, Eviolite, and Clear Smog allow Magmar to check setup on Jumpluff, Clefairy, Leafeon, and Ninetales without Psyshock/HP Ground (if that exists) for example. It also gets free switches on Roselia, Tangela, Gourgeist, Togetic, and Victreebel most of the time due to its typing and ability. Normally, Fire-types hoping to check a Grass-type would have to beware of Sleep Powder, which debilitates them and renders their checking capabilities temporarily useless. Not so anymore!

Base 93 Speed gets the jump on stuff like Leavanny (92), Chatot/Murkrow (91), Mr. Mime (90), and it ties with neutral 252 Quick Feet Ursaring (313 in-game Speed). At +1, it outspeeds Rock Polish Torterra and just loses out to Shell Smash Barbaracle by 1 point. The benefit of Scarf would be to beat Scarf Mr. Mime and Rotom-F, otherwise Eviolite or Leftovers are probably preferred.

Offensively, its Special movepool consists of Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, Belch*, Focus Blast, Psychic, and a Hidden Power of choice, likely Grass. Its physical movepool has Flare Blitz, Poison Jab, Cross Chop, and Thunder Punch, of which the latter two can be added to spice up a mixed set. Looking at possible checks and counters, we have Poliwrath, Carracosta, Barbaracle, Golem, Grumpig, and Lickilicky, who either resit both its STABs and/or have the bulk to absorb neutral hits. Luckily, Psychic grants a SE hit on Poliwrath and Focus Blast/Cross Chop hit Carracosta, Barbaracle, Golem, and Lickilicky for SE damage as well. Magmar would need to watch out for Aqua Jet from the Water/Rock mons and have a teammate ready to get past Grumpig.

*120 BP after you eat a berry and lasts the rest of the match even if you switch out. Sitrus gimmick maybe?

Conclusion: With Fire/Poison typing added to its other attributes, Magmar would be able to check Fairy and Grass-types much easier than something like Ninetales, who must be wary of Sleep Powder and doesn't hit as hard without a boost. Magmar trades some Speed for more power and mixed capabilities, which puts one foot in Simisear territory, but the natural bulk it has backed by an Eviolite and a dual typing allows it to maintain a separate niche from the fiery simian.

Possible set:
Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Clear Smog
- Fire Blast / Lava Plume
- Focus Blast
- Psychic

week two: Physical Zebstrika- Ben Ohver

Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Wild Charge
- Pursuit
- Quick Attack

The Addition of just the Normal Typing to Zebstrika gives it an instant boost that can make it more rounded out and make a Physical set viable. It is a tiny boost that will do so much in terms of Zebra's strength and give it a reasonable and effective dual stab. This is basically a physical Heliolisk with not a water immunity but a grass immunity. While other Normal Type pokemon like Tauros had Sheer Force, Zebstrika doesn't have an Overwhelming ability that will make it that overpowered in the metagame.

week three: Sliggoo- Eevee General

This guy has some good bulk, especially with an Eviolite attached. Unfortunately it lacks in recovery outside of Rest and since it will want that Eviolite, it loses access to Leftovers. A mediocre Special Attack prevents it from taking any offensive role most of the time. All in all, Sliggoo struggles to make an impact in PU due to its absence of longevity and firepower. There's an ability that can address both of these issues, however, and turn it into a useful pivot with longevity and the potential to apply offensive pressure all in one.

+Regenerator (-Hydration)

Justification: It's harder to make a compelling case for Regenerator over something like Sticky Hold, which would play off the dex entry mentioning how it excretes a sticky substance. However, since it is made of a gooey, sticky substance and its evolution Goodra begins to drip in its animation, the stretch to say this material regenerates overtime isn't too far out of the realm of Poke Science.

Theorymon: Sliggoo's defensive role wouldn't change that much with Regenerator--it would just get better. Pivoting becomes much easier and mistakes can be recovered from with a simple switch out and Dragon is a cool type to absorb common Water, Fire, and Grass attacks found among top tier Pokemon. Spamming Draco Meteor gets easier as well now that switching is encouraged and the drops are erased as you regain HP. With quite a few coverage moves you can cater its set to check a range of threats with Sludge Wave, Muddy Water, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt.

Regenerator doesn't just tilt Sliggoo more to the defensive side, however. Base 60 Speed isn't god awful (though it's not great), so with an investment it could outpace some of the tier's slower threats. And since it has respectable special bulk already, you might even forgo the Eviolite for a Life Orb, an item that works wonderfully with Regenerator. With its typing, bulk, and improved offenses, it could still pivot in on resisted hits and threaten back with decent power off 83 Special Attack, which I should note is higher than other special threats like Ninetales and Zebstrika and just two less than Floatzel. Plus its main STAB Draco Meteor has a high base power which further invigorates its middling Special Attack.

Conclusion: Regenerator presents two options for Sliggoo: bulky Eviolite pivot or Life Orb attacker. Regenerator helps unearth its great coverage that hits most of the tier for SE damage plus a high BP STAB move, which I think would make Sliggoo more viable and worth consideration on teams looking for a versatile, bulky special attacker.

Possible Set:
Sliggoo @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Muddy Water / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt

week four: Frogadier- 2xTheTap

Frogadier is a fairly capable special attacker, especially with Protean, Life Orb, its decent Special Attack stat and a wide array of powerful special moves, but what holds it back from being truly effective in PU is its poor bulk and its inability to KO faster threats without Paralysis / Sticky Web / Tailwind support. Similarly, it struggles against powerful Pokemon with priority, like Pawniard and Mightyena. However, there's a move it could receive to alleviate its somewhat disappointing Speed stat and improve its ability as a cleaner, without making it too overpowered in PU.

+ Vacuum Wave

Justification: It wouldn't be inconceivable for the Greninja line to receive Vacuum Wave through breeding at some point, given its froggy brethren, Toxicroak and Croagunk, already have access to it. By simply adding Froakie, Frogadier and Greninja to the Humanshape Egg Group, this could become possible. According to its Pokedex entry, "It appears and vanishes with a ninja's grace. It toys with its enemies using swift movements, while slicing them with throwing stars of sharpest water." With Vacuum Wave being quick and Ninja-like, this move would suit Frogadier aesthetically, too.

Theorymon: The problem with justifying a team slot for Frogadier basically boils down to the fact that other offensive Water types in PU often make it so it's left behind in favor of more viable options, like Poliwrath or Floatzel. Floatzel is at a superior speed tier and has slightly better bulk, while Poliwrath is much more splashable and provides teams with a multitude of resistances and an immunity to Water type attacks.

However, with the addition of Vacuum Wave, Frogadier would need less support and could fit in on most offensive teams (especially on teams where a cleaner is needed, like on Spike Stack). Frogadier could also see some use over Poliwrath, as it receives STAB from every move it gets, it hits harder, and is much faster (save for Poliwrath's offensive RD sets).

Vacuum Wave Frogadier would still be a step shy from being overpowered because fast Psychic types who resist Vacuum Wave still exist, like Scarf Mr. Mime and Kadabra; they would be able to take a hit and KO back with STAB. Similarly, Special Walls like Regice and Lickilicky would still be able to sponge a hit from Frogadier, even with this new super effective coverage. Vacuum Wave would simply make Frogadier better in terms of its cleaning ability, and against Pokemon with priorty, like Mightyena and Pawniard especially.

Here's what a possible set would look like:

Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

week five: Tentacool- Al'Akir

Tentacool @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Knock Off/Ice Beam/Sludge Wave

One of the main things stopping Tentacool from being useful is the lack of any kind of recovery. Since spinners come in on hazards as a part of their job, Tentacool finds it difficult to perform its own job well due to the stacking damage of coming on hazards again and again. Regenerator fixes this problem and adds an interesting new and useful spinner to PU.

In practice, Tentacool usually comes in and is able to do 1 action before being forced out by the massive amounts of switch-ins Tentacool has (Poliwrath, Gogoat, Torterra, Piloswine, Pelipper...the list goes on). With this in mind, Regenerator is extremely beneficial to Tentacool since the jellyfish is going to be constantly switching anyway and doesn't have to waste the 1 turn manually healing. Regenerator also heals 33%, which is a little short of the 37.5% that full hazards cause, meaning that Tentacool heals most of the hazard damage off. Anything less than full hazards and Tentacool will spin freely and heal some for the trouble. If only Toxic Spikes are out, then Tentacool can switch in to absorb the hazard without having to spin, do the one action, and then heal for the full 1/3.

As for flavor, some parts of the intricate lifespan of the jellyfish reproduce via budding and fission. Since this is Pokemon, it isn't a large stretch of the imagination to say that Tentacool can use this for healing...or just make a new Tentacool on every switch. No one will notice the difference, I promise.

Having a reliable spinner that isn't weak to rocks and can't be poisoned is something that PU lacks and wants dearly, and Regenerator Tentacool can be just that.

week six: Clefairy- Robert Alfons

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Softboiled
- Baton Pass
Seeing how Clefairy already has a great typing, fantastic ability, and a super wide movepool, it's hard to really think of anything it could get to improve, but here's an attempt to give it something new that has some use. BP allows it to pass CM boosts to teammates, which is really cool, and it doesn't pass up on anything huge by having BP in the 4th moveslot. It can still be used like you usually would use CM Clefairy (a bulky setup sweeper with immunity to passive damage, AKA the bane of stall), but in case your opponent rocks something that can beat Clefairy 1-v-1 quite easily, you can use BP to pass the boosts you accumulated to something that takes care of it. It doesn't make Clefairy a dedicated boost passer per se (otherwise NP Togetic would probably outclas it to a degree), but it does allow it to circumvent its counters, provided that you bring stuff on your team that appreciates the CM boost and can kill stuff that gets in Clefairy's way. It's part sweeper, part boost passer. Pretty cool stuff imo.

Justification isn't really needed tbh, Baton Pass is widespread, especially among cutemons, so I don't even know why it doesn't have this move already lol.

week seven: Noctowl- Unfixable

Normal / Dark
Noctowl @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Hyper Voice
- Heat Wave

I didn't change the Normal-typing because I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to, unless I misunderstood the rules. Anyways, I know there are three buffs on here, but hear me out. A ton of Noctowl's Pokedex descriptions include mentions of darkness. For example, "It unfailingly catches prey in darkness. Noctowl owe their success to superior vision that allows them to see in minimal light, and to their supple and silent wings." or "Its eyes are specially developed to enable it to see clearly even in murky darkness and minimal light." So it does make sense that it is a Dark-type, which goes hand in hand with Tinted Lens. This leads me to believe Noctowl can learn Nasty Plot. Specifically mentioning things like "murky darkness" and "catching prey" lead me to this. Similarly, Mandibuzz learns it because it feeds on prey, a Nasty Plot! Dark Pulse is added because Noctowl does not have any other Dark-type STAB besides Hidden Power (or Thief / Faint Attack, but that's not a very solid option). Hyper Voice and Heat Wave are just general coverage. I think this is an interesting buff to Noctowl that lets it put in serious work.

week eight: Electrode- Dundies

Electrode @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power [Ice]

At first look at Electrode, you can tell it has no trouble levitating above the ground, as it usually is. Therefore, the ability Levitate made sense. Aura Sphere also made since because, well, it's a sphere.

Competitively, this would give Electrode no weaknesses, allowing it to take on Pokemon like Probopass with ease. Aura Sphere gives Electrode a much better option for hitting Probopass, Piloswine, Golem, etc.

week nine: Illumise- Twix

(+ Fairy Type)
Illumise (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Dazzling Gleam
- Quiver Dance
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Ah Illumise, the cute, but somehow pesky little firefly which is always in the shadow of its brethren Volbeat. BUT NO MORE! The era of Illumise is now, the time for conquering has come among us. This creature will get even more cute with the Fairy-typing, and will be incredibly deadly. Also, instead of doing its common diggery-do, Illumise learned a new dance, the dance of Quivering, to guide it on its way to best Volbeat. When People think of Illumise they think of disgusting Prankster shenanigans. With this astronomical concoction of mine, Volbeat will be a deadly sweeper unlike the tier has ever seen. This Volbeat has two items, a Life Orb, and Shades. Volbeat just got VolBEAT.
Actual explanation:
Illumise is constantly dancing, jumping from side to side with a smile running down its adorable face. It made perfect sense to add Quiver Dance to its set. As for the Fairy-type, Illumise already had some eclectic Fairy moves such as Dazzling Gleam, Charm, and Moonlight, so it seemed very fitting for it.

week ten: Luxray- Mael

Luxray @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature or Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Wild Charge / Superpower / Thunderfang / Fire Fang
- Crunch / Ice Fang
- Agility

a lot of the electric types (almost all) get agility, even if some of them are slower and look slower than luxray is. I mean look at this beast, it's waiting to start racing and get faster and faster!!! I don't think this would change a lot about luxrays viability or make a powerful endgame sweeper, because it's going to kill itself off way too often, but it surely adds another option to luxrays pool of sets.

also all the talk about the dark typing seems pretty justified to me, i like that idea.

week eleven: Wobbuffet- Marogod

Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Encore
- Counter
- Mirror Coat

Reasoning:
Wobbuffet has always been known to simply "bounce" back damage its taken to the opponent so why not entry hazards or status conditions? Magic Bounce is an ability which does just that and is given to a hand full of pokemon most being known as very smart,cunning or devious Wobbuffet (although not at first glance) is a patient and devious pokemon it states in many Pokedex entries "To keep its pitch-black tail hidden, it lives quietly in the darkness. It is never first to attack." Wobbuffet know they cant attack first so they wait wanting to strike back with there Counter or Mirror Coat attacks. I also decided to give it Wish My reasoning for this is the time old tale ;) that the tail is actually the pokemon not the body or "Punching Bag" as its refereed to and what would that tail want? It would Wish for safety.

Competitive Use:
I gave it Magic Bounce so it can still get affected by status (Scald,Sludge Bomb,T-spikes ect) this way its still able to counter Toxic,WoW and Thunder Wave but still have a way of being statused and not completely ignoring it. Magic Bounce also counters many hazard setters in the tier from Venipede/Whirlipede to Quilladin and the ever popular Roselia with Magic Bounce Wobbuffet becomes a counter to these mons. I also gave it Wish which on first glance seems crazy considering its base 190 HP stat means almost every single pokemon gets full recovery and allows it to recover chip damage. But thats what Wobbuffet is. The ultimate stop to hazard stacking teams and a god to stall teams. with its HP being so high all evs are given to its measly defenses making it an all around brick wall. it has the obvious Counter/Mirror Coat combo so it isnt completely defenseless to attacks and Encore to stop it from getting set up on.

week twelve: Avalugg- Ztstaffo

Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Evs: 84 HP / 252 Sp/ 172 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Avalanche

After thinking forever about how i could possibly make this theorymon work after getting beat to my first few initial ideas, I had to really thing creatively on this one. This set helps it both offensively and utility-wise. With Guts and Knock Off, Avalugg now successfully beats virtually all spinblockers in pu, allowing it to be a reliable rapid spinner that can also cripple eviolite users and defensive pokemon in general. With reliable recovery, Avalugg can almost always get away with no hazards on your side of the field with this set. Misdreavus, Gourgeist, Dusclops, Drifblim, all of theses ghost types now can't burn you without getting punished. Knock off cripples both missy and dusclops (and frillish lol), allowing it to beat them reliably too. Avalugg tends to get statused a bunch anyways too, so you may not even have to worry about predicting WoW's to get your boost.

Yes, it still struggles against Special Attackers, but every pokemon in this tier has a problem, so give avalugg a break. This improvement is small yet still drastically improves its ability to keep hazards off your field. Not to mention, it absorbs all the status you need to except sleep (Not good lol), and para is annoying too i guess. Either way, yeah, this thing is pretty legit imo. The only ghost type that reliably beats the crap out of you is Croclops, and that is like nonexistant nowadays lol.

Also the Evs are so that you can take two offensive misdreavus shadow balls while still keeping as much HP as you can for wallling both sides of offense.

Not to mention you now can cripple Tangela, Clefairy, Piloswine, and i'm sure there are others but i'm blanking. So it also helps your win condition get ko's to sweep! ^^

Against Defensive Missy: This fight is easy since you are actually ev'd to survive two offensive misdreavus shadow balls all the time. with no haxy drops, you can ko it with Knock Off+Avalanche. However, be wary of pain split because that could be bad if you let it happen at the wrong time.

Against Offensive Missy: Don't switch into offensive missy, its very unlikely you will win if you switch in. However, if you let it switch into you, you beat it. You can take a +2 Shadow Ball, which means you can take two shadow balls as well at +0. Your Knock Off will ohko misdreavus with like 10% prior damage and Stealth rocks, and that is without guts. If you predict the switch into missy, you get that knock off hit on her and its gg you get your rocks up. that is the best thing you can do. She either switches into you, or lets you rapid spin so its pick her poison.

Against Gourgeist-Super: Easy game, just avalanche or knock off or both, its a 2hko with Avalanche+Knock Off and it can't do squat to you.




Calcs:
Show Hide



So to sum it all up, I gave Avalugg Knock Off and Guts so it can now effectively rapid spin 90% of the time, Cripple Evioliters, and Absorb Status, while still taking physical attacks and dishing out damage. Oh, and Avalugg can have guts because he is tough looking ice monster! I mean, larvitar and pupitar has guts so fite me, it seems like it could happen. And like 60% of the world has the move knock off, and some don't have hands O_O.

EDIT: IGNORE the misdreavus attached file, idk how to get rid of it i'm a computer noob.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Magmar @ Life Orb / Eviolite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Will O Wisp / HP Grass / I don't know

Thunderbolt is a blessing for any offensive Fire Type, it offers powerful coverage to beat the usually threatening type to Fire: Water.
Magmar doesn't have it through, but Magmortar does have it. Let's change that, okay?

At that point, there's not enough to make Magmar having a big enough niche as a PU Pokemon, so let's add another dream of any attacker: Sheer Force.
As you know, Sheer Force boosts moves with secondary effect by x1,3, which will definitly help Magmar at wallbreaking with his STAB or Focus Blast, the latter being pretty effective against our main special wall known as Lickilicky.

That's how you turn an outclassed " shit " into a pretty good wallbreaker, alongside the likes of Heatmor & Simisear.
The mixed possibilities could be explored, but i'd rather focus on special side right now.

 

[Magnemite]

Not sure how we're supposed to format this but:

Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Vital Spirit
Type: Fire / Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic

Say hello to a reliable Jumpluff counter with recovery. It also has a very good defensive typing in general, letting it become a solid bulky yet fast and decently strong offensive Fire-type. This fixes Magmar's main issue of not really having a niche (especially over Ninetales) while making it a decent mon in general. I was considering giving it Stealth Rock too because it fit with the type change but I didn't want to have too many changes.

 

[Fissure]

Magmar @ Choice Scarf
Possible Abilities: Flame Body / Vital Spirit / Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
-Eruption
-Flamethrower / Fire Blast
-Focus Blast
-HP Coverage of your choosing

The first thing I thought of was when I watched Ash fight Blaine for the Volcano Badge. Magmar came out of the lava in the volcano and jumped onto the battlefield. So I thought, "What are volcanoes known for?" And the answer is erupting. So...I gave Magmar eruption as well as giving it an extra possible ability in Flash Fire since it makes sense for a Pokemon that can live in lava to become stronger when it is attacked by fire. Additional option, Choice Specs with sticky web support or if you just want to hit things harder. Also, the words in bold are the new changes.

 

[Deej Dy]

Ever since Chatot (Bless its heart) has left...I felt we lost something PU needs. A very Irritating and Haxy Pokemon...
With this new Magmar, peace would be finally restored to PU!

Magmar @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Inferno
- Dynamic Punch
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast

100% burn chance? Yes please!
100% confuse chance? I'll take that too!
"Focus hit?" Hell, I'm sold!

Now you can luck your way to wins against actually skilled and hard-working opponents even easier. Cackle and grin smugly all you want, you deserve it!

 

[Akir]

Oh this looks like a really fun thread. Let me try my hand at this...

Magmar @ Eviolite/Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Flare Blitz
- Cross Chop
- Wild Charge/ThunderPunch

Magmar has claws, so why not hone them? 95 Attack is pretty subpar, but not a complete waste. The 93 Speed is a pretty interesting speed tier to have. Flare Blitz hurts at +1, and Hone Claws pushes Cross Chop's accuracy over 100% and gives great coverage. Wild Charge is also added because I took pity on the poor guy for having to resort to ThunderPunch, and the accuracy is again pushed over 100% with Hone Claws. Eviolite and Life Orb are interchangeable and come down to personal taste.

Is Hone Claws the best option? No, but it is definitely better than Magmar's other setup options. This Magmar is honestly pretty interesting...it can beat Poliwrath 1v1 with Eviolite and isn't completely stopped by bulky Rock types. This would make Magmar the only physical Fire type that can setup, tank a couple hits, and possibly even sweep in spite of common checks like Poliwrath or Golem or Flash Fire...or even Carracosta if you get lucky with Cross Chop.

 

[EV]

Sheer Force and No Guard Magmar will be hard-pressed to stick around in PU. That's going to be the challenge with this project, since at least with OU theorymon you can't go any higher until you bump into Ubers, and that designation is a lot easier to "predict" than where a Pokemon will end up in the lower/est tiers.

Anyway, here's a change I suspect would stick around in PU and give Magmar a niche over other Fire-types:
+Poison typing, +Sludge Bomb, +Poison Jab
(If three changes are too much, forget Poison Jab)

Justification: It learns Smog, Clear Smog, and Belch naturally (and Smokescreen, which is Poisonous looking in the anime), so the stretch isn't that much farther to go full-Poison. Magmars hang around volcanoes all day which are constantly spewing out carbon dioxide and sulfur, so the gas has gone to its head. The artwork just needs a touch of smoke and some purple elements in its "horns" and you got yourself a Fire/Poison Magmar.

Weaknesses: Ground, Psychic, Rock, Water
Resistances: Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Ice, Poison, Steel
Immunity: Burn, poison, sleep (Vital Spirit)

Theorymon: Vital Spirit, Eviolite, and Clear Smog allow Magmar to check setup on Jumpluff, Clefairy, Leafeon, and Ninetales without Psyshock/HP Ground (if that exists) for example. It also gets free switches on Roselia, Tangela, Gourgeist, Togetic, and Victreebel most of the time due to its typing and ability. Normally, Fire-types hoping to check a Grass-type would have to beware of Sleep Powder, which debilitates them and renders their checking capabilities temporarily useless. Not so anymore!

Base 93 Speed gets the jump on stuff like Leavanny (92), Chatot/Murkrow (91), Mr. Mime (90), and it ties with neutral 252 Quick Feet Ursaring (313 in-game Speed). At +1, it outspeeds Rock Polish Torterra and just loses out to Shell Smash Barbaracle by 1 point. The benefit of Scarf would be to beat Scarf Mr. Mime and Rotom-F, otherwise Eviolite or Leftovers are probably preferred.

Offensively, its Special movepool consists of Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Sludge Bomb, Belch*, Focus Blast, Psychic, and a Hidden Power of choice, likely Grass. Its physical movepool has Flare Blitz, Poison Jab, Cross Chop, and Thunder Punch, of which the latter two can be added to spice up a mixed set. Looking at possible checks and counters, we have Poliwrath, Carracosta, Barbaracle, Golem, Grumpig, and Lickilicky, who either resit both its STABs and/or have the bulk to absorb neutral hits. Luckily, Psychic grants a SE hit on Poliwrath and Focus Blast/Cross Chop hit Carracosta, Barbaracle, Golem, and Lickilicky for SE damage as well. Magmar would need to watch out for Aqua Jet from the Water/Rock mons and have a teammate ready to get past Grumpig.

*120 BP after you eat a berry and lasts the rest of the match even if you switch out. Sitrus gimmick maybe?

Conclusion: With Fire/Poison typing added to its other attributes, Magmar would be able to check Fairy and Grass-types much easier than something like Ninetales, who must be wary of Sleep Powder and doesn't hit as hard without a boost. Magmar trades some Speed for more power and mixed capabilities, which puts one foot in Simisear territory, but the natural bulk it has backed by an Eviolite and a dual typing allows it to maintain a separate niche from the fiery simian.

Possible set:
Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Clear Smog
- Fire Blast / Lava Plume
- Focus Blast
- Psychic

 

[WhiteDMist]

Guys, 2 changes is really pushing it for me. It can be justified if neither single change is very significant on its own, but be careful not to go crazy. It's easy enough to choose a few changes that would improve a Pokemon, but the real goal is to isolate the main reason why a Pokemon isn't as useful in PU and find a solution to it in as few changes as possible.

I think that everyone has done so, but just to make sure: don't forget to justify both the flavor and competitive reasoning for the change(s).

Have fun!

 

[MZ]

So apparently my period is too long so reservations will now have to be posted within 24 hours instead of 72
you now have 24 hours BenOhver

 

[Twix]

Bad Infernape (Magmar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

When I think of Magmar, I think of a terrible, outclassed Fire Type that needs a buff to stay on par of viable in the tier and in general. The addition of giving Magmar Fire/Fighting Typing, Iron Fist, and Various Punching Moves (I'll list below) Magmar can be more useful in the long run without asking for impossible traits. I feel this set has the ability (literally) to buff Magmar, but not push it as far as into a higher tier, as well adding a much needed Fighting Type with a pretty sweet speed tier and solid Priority. It might actually become a scary threat with access to Belly Drum and Mach Punch, but I belive that it's frail enough to the point that it won't be unstoppable.

New Moves

Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Bullet Punch

I'd also like to see Magmar get some moves like Peck and Pluck, because although they aren't very valuable, it is a legit fire duck without Flying Moves. How is a duck a duck if the 'duck' can't use its beak.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Bad Infernape (Magmar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

When I think of Magmar, I think of a terrible, outclassed Fire Type that needs a buff to stay on par of viable in the tier and in general. The addition of giving Magmar Fire/Fighting Typing, Iron Fist, and Various Punching Moves (I'll list below) Magmar can be more useful in the long run without asking for impossible traits. I feel this set has the ability (literally) to buff Magmar, but not push it as far as into a higher tier, as well adding a much needed Fighting Type with a pretty sweet speed tier and solid Priority. It might actually become a scary threat with access to Belly Drum and Mach Punch, but I belive that it's frail enough to the point that it won't be unstoppable.

New Moves

Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Bullet Punch

I'd also like to see Magmar get some moves like Peck and Pluck, because although they aren't very valuable, it is a legit fire duck without Flying Moves. How is a duck a duck if the 'duck' can't use its beak.

Guys, 2 changes is really pushing it for me. It can be justified if neither single change is very significant on its own, but be careful not to go crazy. It's easy enough to choose a few changes that would improve a Pokemon, but the real goal is to isolate the main reason why a Pokemon isn't as useful in PU and find a solution to it in as few changes as possible.

I think that everyone has done so, but just to make sure: don't forget to justify both the flavor and competitive reasoning for the change(s).

Have fun!

 

[Kingler]

Actually imo Magmar really doesn't have just one area where it could improve; it's slow, has no reliable recovery, weak to SR, no form of boosting and it doesn't match up well against the S ranks and most of the A ranks. I'd say changes like Magnemite's and Remilia's do change Magmar significantly, but I feel that if changes aren't made to such an extent, it isn't really worth justifying the use of the 'mon. Not really a fan of physical Magmar so won't comment on that :o

also deej, that's a bad joke set >:/

edit- yeah that seems good :o

 

[WhiteDMist]

Like I said, I'm fine with people suggesting more than 1 change if it is justified. I don't want this to end up going overboard on the changes. Not all of the Pokemon will be really bad, and not all of them will need more than 1 change.

 

[MZ]

I don't think this is a rule that can be set in stone, more just a guideline. It might take 2-3 changes to give Magmar a niche over other fire types, but only one to push something like Frogadier into top tier PU. I'm willing to take all of these because I feel like most are on topic, reasonable, and give Magmar a good niche without breaking it. If there's something that's clearly broken or changes the mon too much then I'll get rid of it, but so far I don't feel anything has been too drastic.

 

[teamdreamers412]

Not that much time left, so I'll do a quick one with very little planning ahead, just going to try and get something up. Was going to do a Simple Power-Up Punch + Flame Charge set and maybe Charge Beam, but then read it shouldn't be too offensive. So how about a burn-reliant troll set with only one change.

Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
248 HP/180 Def/80 Sp. Atk
Rash Nature
-Lava Plume
-Mach Punch
-Psychic
-HP Ground

With Serene Grace Magmar has a 60% chance to burn with Lava Plume to artificially increase its bulk to the point that even Max Atk Poliwrath fails to 3HKO it (with that EV spread Poliwrath literally has a 0% chance). Meanwhile Magmar has a slight chance to 2HKO a maximally Specially Defensive Poliwrath with Psychic. Modest is there to ensure this.
With the significant burn chance Magmar can go toe-to-toe with many opposing Physical attackers, Carracosta fails to 1HKO while Magmar can get a Lava Plume + Focus Blast off for a kill or just max rolls on Focus Blast and Mach Punch. Even Barbaracle at + 2 Max Atk fails to get that one-hit KO on this spread. While it has to watch out for Focus Blast and Mach Punch.
Its bulk with Eviolite and burning its opponents with a nearly 60% chance to burn allows Magmar to stop a lot of dangerous physical mons in their tracks while still managing to maintain enough power to stop it.
Rash is also on this set to prevent maximize its Sp. Atk while not hurting either its physical bulk or its Mach Punch damage.
I chose HP Ground for the fourth slot just to increase its damage against fellow Fire-Types like Ninetales, who literally have nothing to fear from him aside from HP Ground or Focus Blast.

Also a more physically offensive set can be created with Body Slam + Confuse Ray + Headbutt to troll your opponents with a terrible chance for your opponent to even land a hit. Thanks to Paraflinch.
Something like:
Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
252 Atk/ 4 SpA/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Lava Plume
-Headbutt
-Body Slam
-Confuse Ray
And you know, butt-headed ducks are full of grace...or are those swans?

 

[Rennyjesus]

I'm on my phone, but I would like to suggest Protean Magmar! That would help to improve Magmar in a lot of ways considering it has a variety of attacks with different typing... That would help Magmar to get STAB not only on priority Mach Punch or Focus blast, but also on Psychic to deal easily with Poliwrath...
Heck, it can even go with some bizarre options like Iron Tail and Double Chop to get an adequate defensive type in order to avoid being disturbed by some other pokes (Ninetales will hate a Dragon Typed Eviolite Magmar)...
What do you think about it?

 

[MZ]

Not that much time left, so I'll do a quick one with very little planning ahead, just going to try and get something up. Was going to do a Simple Power-Up Punch + Flame Charge set and maybe Charge Beam, but then read it shouldn't be too offensive. So how about a burn-reliant troll set with only one change.

Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
248 HP/180 Def/80 Sp. Atk
Rash Nature
-Lava Plume
-Mach Punch
-Psychic
-HP Ground

With Serene Grace Magmar has a 60% chance to burn with Lava Plume to artificially increase its bulk to the point that even Max Atk Poliwrath fails to 3HKO it (with that EV spread Poliwrath literally has a 0% chance). Meanwhile Magmar has a slight chance to 2HKO a maximally Specially Defensive Poliwrath with Psychic. Modest is there to ensure this.
With the significant burn chance Magmar can go toe-to-toe with many opposing Physical attackers, Carracosta fails to 1HKO while Magmar can get a Lava Plume + Focus Blast off for a kill or just max rolls on Focus Blast and Mach Punch. Even Barbaracle at + 2 Max Atk fails to get that one-hit KO on this spread. While it has to watch out for Focus Blast and Mach Punch.
Its bulk with Eviolite and burning its opponents with a nearly 60% chance to burn allows Magmar to stop a lot of dangerous physical mons in their tracks while still managing to maintain enough power to stop it.
Rash is also on this set to prevent maximize its Sp. Atk while not hurting either its physical bulk or its Mach Punch damage.
I chose HP Ground for the fourth slot just to increase its damage against fellow Fire-Types like Ninetales, who literally have nothing to fear from him aside from HP Ground or Focus Blast.

Also a more physically offensive set can be created with Body Slam + Confuse Ray + Headbutt to troll your opponents with a terrible chance for your opponent to even land a hit. Thanks to Paraflinch.
Something like:
Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
252 Atk/ 4 SpA/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Lava Plume
-Headbutt
-Body Slam
-Confuse Ray
And you know, butt-headed ducks are full of grace...or are those swans?

Being too offensive isn't an issue, the purpose of that was to suggest the possibility of defensive buffs as opposed to "PROTEAN SHELL SMASH ON EVERYTHING HAHAHAHA"

 

[Rennyjesus]

Protean doesn't make Magmar broken... Even if its Just a little bit slower than frogadier, it is bulkier and stronger which can make it rise to the top of PU... What can make it not broken? It will keep that Stealth Rock weakness every single time it comes in... and like Frogadier, it will not have enough power to break things if uses eviolite and it will not have enough bulk or speed to handle some other things if isn't using eviolite or Scarf... I dunno...

 

[OM]

Yay! The Butt-Faced Duck gets some theorymon'in!

Magmar @ Life Orb/ Eviolite
Ability: Solar Power
8 HP/ 252 SpA / 248 Spe
- Lava Plume
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Filler]/ Sunny Day/ Will-O-Wisp
- Psychic

Most Fire types are either Amazing Attackers or Defensive Pivots! But, Magmar is just amazingly bad. Solar Power makes Magmar either an Amazing Special Attacker with a nice and stronk 150 Base Special Attack or normal Magmar that wishes for some more Sweg. This doesn't outright make Magmar completely unbalanced, and this becomes more of a Attacker made to OHKO or Die. You could also do this:

Magmar @ Eviolite
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 126 SpA / 134 SpD
- Will-O-Wisp
- Lava Plume
- Psychic
- Confuse Ray

Nice n' Water Heal.

 

[teamdreamers412]

Being too offensive isn't an issue, the purpose of that was to suggest the possibility of defensive buffs as opposed to "PROTEAN SHELL SMASH ON EVERYTHING HAHAHAHA"

Yeah, I supposed I didn't want to use a basic ability like Simple because of how easy it would be to slap it on someone and turn them into a power house.

Yay! The Butt-Faced Duck gets some theorymon'in!

Magmar @ Life Orb/ Eviolite
Ability: Solar Power
4 HP/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Just cause I'm here right now, your HP EVs are off. It needs to be adjusted to survive Stealth Rocks. Plus or minus four to make it an odd number.

 

[OM]

Yeah, I supposed I didn't want to use a basic ability like Simple because of how easy it would be to slap it on someone and turn them into a power house.



Just cause I'm here right now, your HP EVs are off. It needs to be adjusted to survive Stealth Rocks. Plus or minus four to make it an odd number.

Fixed it... I think

 

[ManOfMany]

I actually think Iron Fist ability is all Magmar needs to be a decent threat.

Bad Infernape (Magmar) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/ Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Belly Drum
- Fire Punch
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch

This would be its only good set, but holy shit, is it threatening.

Magmar can easily set up a Belly Drum on a grass type and proceed to wreck anything slower than it with the incredible combination of fire punch + thunder punch, walled only by whiscash and marshtomp.

Due to iron fist boosted mach punch, most faster pokemon are easily ripped apart after a few hazards.

+6 252+ Atk Iron Fist Magmar Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 299-352 (114.5 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Iron Fist Magmar Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simipour: 269-317 (92.1 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Iron Fist Magmar Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dodrio: 246-290 (94.2 - 111.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

 

[MZ]

Go vote ppl

 

[Twix]

Mistress Remilia