really don't understand what the hype is about bulletproof Metagross. It still has way to many problems that stop it from being viable in OU. Ball and bomb moves aren't even that common compared to Metagross' other weaknesses. Out of all the moves that Bulletproof stops the most common are Focus Blast and Shadow Ball where only one of those actually posed a threat to Metagross in the first place. It still has to face Earthquakes that are literally everywhere, and fire moves which are becoming more popular with 3 new highly used pokemon. It stops Aegislash and Gengar, but those are only 2 of the many threats it faces in OU.
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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
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Plus it doesn't even stop SD Aegislash. It basically does nothing for him in terms of viability, Bulletproof still doesn't make him worth using over any of the other potential checks to these two.
I just want people to think about what we can actually discuss on these things before voting for them or we're going to end up with Roost Empoleon again, which sounds like it would be awesome but once you start to anaylze it you realize it makes absolutely no difference to its use in OU. Still runs into the same issues it has now.
Here is the competitive merit behind each theorymon:
Ghost / Dark Mega Banette
STAB Sucker Punch, STAB Knock Off, and neutrality to Knock Off, which allows Mega Banette to switch in against Fighting-types much easier. All of those are huge buffs, especially STAB Sucker Punch from a 165 Atk stat, allowing Mega Banette to act as a solid revenge killer while also MEvolving of the same time, somewhat mitigating the problem of lacking Prankster on the first turn.
Intimidate Rhyperior
Just to clarify, but Intimidate helps Rhyperior take super effective physical attacks even better than Solid Rock, while improving drastically his ability to tank neutral hits, such as Outrage, Play Rough, and Knock Off, all common moves. For example, max HP Intimidate Rhyperior always avoids the 2HKO after SR from CB Dragonite's Outrage, while Solid Rock Rhyperior with max HP / max Def+ gets 2HKOed ~50% of the time with SR up. Intimidate Rhyperior just doesn't care about physical super effective hits, unless they are Water or Grass attacks, and can also invest much more in Atk and support its team with both Intimidate and SR. Competition with Lando-T is always there, but the sheer physical bulk of Rhyperior (which allows it to counter huge metagame threats such as Mega Char X and Mega Pinsir way more effectively than Lando-T), Fire resistance, STAB Rock attacks, Ice Punch, and Fire Punch, are all good reasons for a team to go with Rhyperior. Here is a calc just to showcase this thing's physical bulk with Intimidate:
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 203-242 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Bulletproof Metagross
The ability to counter Gengar and check most Aegislash sets shouldn't be underestimated. You also get to check Psychic-types such as Alakazam and Mega Gardevoir much better, which is a plus too, especially when considering how dangerous Mega Gardevoir is to a lot of teams atm. Definitely a change that would make Metagross worth using again
Competitive Azelf
The potential is there, but it's hard to make a conclusion about this. Could be very useful if Competitive ends up being reliable enough, or at least makes opponents thing twice before using Defog, but could also be ineffective due to Azelf's frailty and thus inability to switch into most Defog users.
That said, my vote goes to Intimidate Rhyperior.
Ghost / Dark Mega Banette
STAB Sucker Punch, STAB Knock Off, and neutrality to Knock Off, which allows Mega Banette to switch in against Fighting-types much easier. All of those are huge buffs, especially STAB Sucker Punch from a 165 Atk stat, allowing Mega Banette to act as a solid revenge killer while also MEvolving of the same time, somewhat mitigating the problem of lacking Prankster on the first turn.
Intimidate Rhyperior
Just to clarify, but Intimidate helps Rhyperior take super effective physical attacks even better than Solid Rock, while improving drastically his ability to tank neutral hits, such as Outrage, Play Rough, and Knock Off, all common moves. For example, max HP Intimidate Rhyperior always avoids the 2HKO after SR from CB Dragonite's Outrage, while Solid Rock Rhyperior with max HP / max Def+ gets 2HKOed ~50% of the time with SR up. Intimidate Rhyperior just doesn't care about physical super effective hits, unless they are Water or Grass attacks, and can also invest much more in Atk and support its team with both Intimidate and SR. Competition with Lando-T is always there, but the sheer physical bulk of Rhyperior (which allows it to counter huge metagame threats such as Mega Char X and Mega Pinsir way more effectively than Lando-T), Fire resistance, STAB Rock attacks, Ice Punch, and Fire Punch, are all good reasons for a team to go with Rhyperior. Here is a calc just to showcase this thing's physical bulk with Intimidate:
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 203-242 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Bulletproof Metagross
The ability to counter Gengar and check most Aegislash sets shouldn't be underestimated. You also get to check Psychic-types such as Alakazam and Mega Gardevoir much better, which is a plus too, especially when considering how dangerous Mega Gardevoir is to a lot of teams atm. Definitely a change that would make Metagross worth using again
Competitive Azelf
The potential is there, but it's hard to make a conclusion about this. Could be very useful if Competitive ends up being reliable enough, or at least makes opponents thing twice before using Defog, but could also be ineffective due to Azelf's frailty and thus inability to switch into most Defog users.
That said, my vote goes to Intimidate Rhyperior.
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This round seems a bit weak...
Bulletproof metagross? Giving it levitate wouldn't be enough as mold breaker is very common. Bulletproof is not the defensive boost the supercomputer is looking for.
Intimidate rhyperior is a really weird choice. Doesn't solid rock provide better protection? (There's an inneundo in there somewhere...) in all seriousness, intimidate gives it nothing noteworthy to handle top mons with.
Ghost/dark banette (or mega whatever) sounds good in theory (lol) but its still very frail.
I think I'll go with competitive azelf not because it makes sense (this is a mon with more physical attack than tyrantrum) but because that thing would appreciate a special attack boost
Bulletproof metagross? Giving it levitate wouldn't be enough as mold breaker is very common. Bulletproof is not the defensive boost the supercomputer is looking for.
Intimidate rhyperior is a really weird choice. Doesn't solid rock provide better protection? (There's an inneundo in there somewhere...) in all seriousness, intimidate gives it nothing noteworthy to handle top mons with.
Ghost/dark banette (or mega whatever) sounds good in theory (lol) but its still very frail.
I think I'll go with competitive azelf not because it makes sense (this is a mon with more physical attack than tyrantrum) but because that thing would appreciate a special attack boost
Oh, I was thinking this whole time that sold rock decreases super effective moves by 1/2 instead of 1/4. That definitely changes my mind and vote on intimidate.
Could I ask that these posts with the blurbs be done at the beginning of the next round? Sorry if it's annoying for you to have to write up mini-analyses for stuff that doesn't ultimately get picked, but I think it would really help us get solid votes for things that would be interesting competitively instead of just stuff that sounds cool. For example, those calcs on Intimidate Rhyperior make me reconsider my position on it. I'd probably still vote for Banette anyway just because I love Sableye and this would be like a monster version of that, but Rhyperior would be a much closer second.
No, Intimidate is better even against super effective physical hits:
- 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 230-271 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- -1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 203-242 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You are absolutely right that i should do this and this is my plan, i was just in a hurry to post the next slate this time and i didn't have enough time to add explanations. Will have those descriptions written before i make the slate the next time, dw!Ryolain said:
Have one of my all time favorites check most Gengar or Aegislash variants, or having a awesome physically bulky pivot in Intimidate.......pivot, or Metagross, pivot or Metagross.
Sorry my old friend. Intimidate Rypherior sounds more effective in the meta imo.
Sorry my old friend. Intimidate Rypherior sounds more effective in the meta imo.
Dark/ghost Mega Banette would be awesome. Only one weakness and STAB knock off would really be useful.
It would be a sableye with a base attack stat of 165, that's absolutely ridiculous
It would be a sableye with a base attack stat of 165, that's absolutely ridiculous
Intimidate Ryperior
Man, there have been some really great suggestions that have lost the voting. I hope at some point there's a loser's round, where we can go over some of the things that almost made it.
This time, I'm actually gonna say Ghost/Dark Mega Banette. That sounds like it'll wreak glorious havoc on the metagame, but in a not BS way like talonflame.
This time, I'm actually gonna say Ghost/Dark Mega Banette. That sounds like it'll wreak glorious havoc on the metagame, but in a not BS way like talonflame.
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