The Negative Metagame

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thesynchrohero said:
Lol, everyone was going insane when Shedinja had 16 Base HP in tier shift but everyone is ignoring his 159 base hp in this meta
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Shedinja is unaffected by the increase; the coding sets Shedinja's HP to 1, not to the true Base 1 HP value, which is like 143 if I remember correctly? Since the intention of GameFreak was to give Shedinja only 1HP, I think that's being followed for this metagame, so we should still just treat it as base 1 HP.
 
Finally, a metagame where Mawile can (probably) kick ass! Steel typing, sweet bulk, good Special Attack, and Sheer Force come together for a hell of a Pokemon.
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110 / 75 / 75 / 105 / 105 / 110
Mawile @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid / Naive Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Sucker Punch
EDIT: why does this learn Charge Beam and not Thunderbolt? 9.9

One other Pokemon that might be worth looking at is Scizor. Yes, it doesn't get dramatic boosts like the many NFEs do, but it has a nice typing that no NFE shares (despite unappealing bulk), a decent movepool, and Technician. Roost is nice too.
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90 / 30 / 60 / 105 / 80 / 95
Scizor @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: see here for Technician Hidden Power IVs
- Bug Buzz / Silver Wind (same power)
- Flash Cannon
- Vacuum Wave / Roost
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Roost
 
A cool underrated threat is Rhyhorn. It's stat spread becomes 80/75/65/130/130/135 and though it's physically frail, it's got a fantasic movepool that Pokemon good in this meta don't often have. Earth Power, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Fire Blast, Rock Polish, Stealth Rock for offensive support. After some of the stupidly hard hitters are banned, maybe he'll be worth it.
 
Sentret is worth looking at, but it is likely outclassed heavily by Azurill

125/114/126/125/115/140

Not bad all round and has a move pool which stretches on wards almost to every move you could possibly want.

Sentret @ Choice Specs (Life Orb/Leftovers/Whatever)
Hyper Voice
Thunderbolt
Surf
Ice Beam

Or you could run with Work Up/Hone Claws etc and wreck face that way. Bulky set up Pokemon seem to be the order of the day here... And it will almost exclusively be NFE's which dominate.
 
Guys, no. Guys.
Togepi.

140 base speed
140 base attack
Serene Grace Headbutt.

Also gets 120 base SpA and Flamethrower/Shadow Ball to cover that side of resistances

125/95/95 defenses and Eviolite isn't too bad either

Sadly it's walled by that Heatran with its 70/54/54 bulk and even worse attacking stats :(
 
EspyOwner said:
Guys, no. Guys.
Togepi.

140 base speed
140 base attack
Serene Grace Headbutt.

Also gets 120 base SpA and Flamethrower/Shadow Ball to cover that side of resistances

125/95/95 defenses and Eviolite isn't too bad either

Sadly it's walled by that Heatran with its 70/54/54 bulk and even worse attacking stats :(
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Um, Hustle beats Serene Grace Headbutt any day with a base 140 Attack. Although the miss chance is annoying, nothing in this meta has a base stat greater than 155; however, with Hustle, Togepi has a base Attack of 210.
Yeah.
 
All this discussion and NOBODY has said a thing about the mighty Zubat!

According to the formula, Zubat gets 120/115/125/130/120/105 stats. Yeah it may be a touch slow for the meta, but with access to Nasty Plot and solid 120/125/120 defenses, Zubat can become a MIGHTY sweeper in this metagame

Zubat @ Eviolite
Trait: Inner Focus/Infiltrator
Nature: Timid
252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain / Roost
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave / Hidden Power Ground

With a Timid Nature and a Nasty Plot up, Zubat hits a whopping 718 Special attack which should DEFINITELY leave a dent into a lot of stuff. Giga Drain & Roost are slashed depending on which is more important with recovery. Air Slash is the STAB of choice for the mighty Zubat even giving it a chance to flinch the opponent (however, Zubat is still a wee bit slow for this meta). Heat Wave and Hidden Power Ground are the last options for the set. The former hitting Steel types harder, but leaving Zubat potentially walled by fire types & Heatran and the latter being more accurate and hitting Fire types and Electric types that can seriously dent it back. Shadow Ball can be used to hit threats like Abra & Ralts, but I don't see much use other than that.
 
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120/133/100/123/110/94

Cottonee is probably going to be one of the most dangerous pokemon in the meta, doing a better job than its older cousin in standard play. Cottonee has very high offensive stats, excellent team support with Encore, Taunt, Leech Seed. but it has a terrible offensive movepool (Giga Drain and Return are the only viable options.);

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120/105/130/130/130/75

Taillow is also something to think about, with access to Guts, Incredible bulk with a reliable recovery move, and fantastic offensive stats, Taillow is very verstatile, wether it is stalling opponents with Whirlwind+Roost, or hitting very hard with Air Slash, Facade or Brave Bird.;

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115/70/140/95/140/95

Carvanha is also another potentially dangerous threat, Carvanha is the definition of a fast defensive pokemon because of speed boost, with access to support moves such as, Taunt, Torment, Refresh, it is more than capable of destroying weakened teams while opponents are unable to kill it because of its amazing defenses.

I love this metagame! luvdisced
 
Just a question I have: shouldn't the base value used in the calculation be 150? This way, Arceus and Sunkern (the pokémon with the highest and lowest BSTs) simply swap stats, which would truly make this metagame a negative of Game Freak's.
 
^Yeah, I screwed up there, and realized only after the topic had made the second page. Both my pleas of approval to Arcticblast actually contained the phrase "Arceus and Sunkern swap stats".

Changing it now wouldn't do that much of a difference (every Pokémon gets the same treatment, so balance shouldn't be skewed that much...), but I feel that it should be debated a little before an eventual change. For instance, most Pokémon have bad enough HP as it is.
 
Arcticblast said:
One other Pokemon that might be worth looking at is Scizor. Yes, it doesn't get dramatic boosts like the many NFEs do, but it has a nice typing that no NFE shares (despite unappealing bulk), a decent movepool, and Technician. Roost is nice too.
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90 / 30 / 60 / 105 / 80 / 95
Scizor @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: see here for Technician Hidden Power IVs
- Bug Buzz / Silver Wind (same power)
- Flash Cannon
- Vacuum Wave / Roost
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Roost
Click to expand...

I could see Scizor doing some work vs the Psychic and Grass-types of the tier. It resists their STAB (Sunkern will carry HP Fire though) and hits back with Silver Wind boosted with Technician for hella-fun-time-stat-increase-potential-10%-super-good.
Sad thing is it's frail and slooow BUT outspeeds fathead Abra.

Oh, and say hello to Natu:
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120 / 110 / 115 / 90 / 115 / 90
Magic Bounce

Pair that with a Ghostie for some spin-blocking fun.

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140 / 120 / 70 / 130 / 70 / 135
Offensive spin-blocker. Also, bye Abra/Ralts.
Shadow Ball, Pursuit, Psychic (for Tyrogue), Ice Beam, Taunt, Calm Mind, W-O-W.

Similarly,
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122 / 130 / 75 / 105 / 95 / 130

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110 / 130 / 105 / 95 / 105 / 140

Keep in mind the latter two cannot take advantage of their Attack stat with a strong STAB move. ):
 
Keep in mind that Marill cannot learn both Belly Drum and Aqua Jet, Tyrogue cannot learn Hi Jum Kick in combination with Bullet Punch and Mach Punch and Cleffa cannot learn Calm Mind.

Also, please change Eviolite. The ban is not yet implemented and it is really ridiculous. Running anything besides Eviolite is simply not worth it, as you will get stalled out easily. Adamant Guts Tyrogue with Hi Jump Kick will only 4HKO Pichu with Eviolite (around 20% to 3HKO with no hp investment), which can then proceed to potentially Rest Stall you, or switch to a Psychic type and use Wish. On a side note, Pichu is a really great wall, especially with Wish support from something like Natu or Ralts. Too bad Abra cannot learn Recover, it seemed so nice. Having no good recovery sucks (Drain Punch does not do enough) even though it has Magic Guard, so use something like Natu (Magic Bounce) or Ralts instead.
 
In all fairness (as you could probably tell by the comments), if I ice punched on turn 12 I definitely would've had a chance.

Still, fucking Eviolite.
 
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132 / 135 / 135 / 115 / 125 / 120
Ralts (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 4 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Ralts is my new favorite Pokémon in this tier. It has great speed, huge bulk, and a moveset which lets it sweep EVERYTHING. With +4, it can OHKO most things in the tier with a 180 BP Stored Power, and it can Rest if it fails to OHKO and Sleep Talk until it kills. Trace can give it useful abilities, such as Magic Bounce vs. Natu, Magic Guard vs. Cleffa, Arena Trap vs. Diglett/Trapinch, Pranktser vs. Cottonee, Shed Skin or Intimidate vs. Ekans, etc.

Ralts sweep (Starts at turn 18)
 
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