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The Move: Super Fang

Isn't anybody else worried about Houndoom with Superfang as a lead? It could make a huge turning point early in the match. Personally, a Lonely Houndoom with the movesets Counter / Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Superfang could be deadly in terms of denting the opponent early. Counter / Sucker Punch early on bulky leads. Superfang the second switch-in, taking 50%. Houndoom has Pursuit or Sucker Punch in its disposal to hurt Ghost-types as well. Although this is all theorymon though.
 
I don't see it stopping Stealth Rock Leads. Sure, He'll get in a respectable 50%, but Rocks will do way more than 50% assuming theres no spinner and plenty of pokemon don't have to be at 50% to be KOed.

Also things that resist his Dark Priority would have no problem. Lead Ape and T_Tar would destroy this lead in OU, as would Heatran, but I'm not sure if it can Get Rocks and take less than 25% from 2 Sucker Punches but I have to admit, with his natural advantage over Azelf and his ability to dish out Heavy Damage to several leads, he may well have a niche.

I don't play UU, so I can't judge, but I'd say its way more effective there. Even prime Houndoom counters such as Thick Fat Hariyama and Milotic will fear switching into a Super Fang.
 
Well, other than Aerodactyl, I find Crobat easily able to Taunt any Stealth Rockers (even @ Aerodactyl, the speed is only a TIE).

For bulky things, it can Super Fang away. U-Turn can also come in very handy for scouting. Crobat should also being able to come back in easily since SR were never lain down and Super Fang a ship-load of stuff. Roost is there for recovery. As much as Fighting types are common these days, Crobat's 4x resistance to Fighting moves give it very easy switches, and its STAB Brave Bird almost guarentee to kill any Fighting type Pokemon in 1 hit. Even Lucario, after a Defense drop from Close Combat, can take decent damage from STAB Brave Bird from Crobat, that is if an offensive Crobat is used. If it's used more defensively, then U-Turn + Roost + Super Fang + Taunt or possibly even Hypnosis can be used. It makes a wonderful scout.
 
franky said:
Isn't anybody else worried about Houndoom with Superfang as a lead? It could make a huge turning point early in the match. Personally, a Lonely Houndoom with the movesets Counter / Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Superfang could be deadly in terms of denting the opponent early. Counter / Sucker Punch early on bulky leads. Superfang the second switch-in, taking 50%. Houndoom has Pursuit or Sucker Punch in its disposal to hurt Ghost-types as well. Although this is all theorymon though.
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Well first of all, Ambipom beats it, but nothing new there. Secondly, Uxie gets a free SR and if slower, creates mindgames between U-turn and plain switching, so you would need to drop the speed to guarantee anything. And incidentally, Spikes Roserade gets absolutely free setup, as does Omastar. So not that great really, but adding Taunt somewhere could help with most of these problems. However, what to drop?

1059860 said:
Well, other than Aerodactyl, I find Crobat easily able to Taunt any Stealth Rockers (even @ Aerodactyl, the speed is only a TIE).
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Well yes, except that Crobat wll get MURDERED for trying. Same with Azelf to some extent, although you can at least predict and U-turn out to Scizor or Weavile or whatever in that case.
 
Crobat is the best user for Super Fang with the move Taunt and Roost. Taunt stops foes from recovering or setting up, or applying status. Takes care of walls and with its nice speed it will be really good.
 
rainxspear said:
Crobat is the best user for Super Fang with the move Taunt and Roost. Taunt stops foes from recovering or setting up, or applying status. Takes care of walls and with its nice speed it will be really good.
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I totally agree. Crobat has great speed, the right moves, and decent defenses to make use of Super Fang. I think a Crobat with a bulky yet speedy EV spread and with the right moves could be very deadly.
 
Crobat this, Walrein this.

Nobody gives a shit about Super fang Sandslash. I get it.

I'm dissapointed about something... Granbull got some bulk, super fang... but it doesn't got Odor sleuth/Foresight (Srsly, why he doesnt learn Odor sleuth... its a fucking dog!). I guess it could be a very nice novelty combo. Specially since with that beastly attack it could easily take away 50% from many things.

Houndoom can run Odor sleuth + Super fang, but consering it's already dark type he doesnt need it. Also, it's frail.

Same to furret but without the Dark type and foresight instead.

Mightyena can run the combo and it's bulkier but it's also dark type so it's kinda irrelevant. (It could run Super fang by itself anyways, due to the bulk)

To end the post Bibarel can run Foresight + Super fang but it doesnt have the bulk enough neither the power.
 
He doesn't learn Roar. It's quite obvious you know well the NU tier pokemon.

Sandslash its one of the few bulky pokemon that got Super fang and some support options (the other being nidoqueen) While nidoqueen may use toxic spikes and clean them Sandslash got more power from EQ and overall Rapid spin. It's the best rapid spinner in NU by most people opinion. He can set up entry hazards aswell so basically the idea it's: Nothing will enjoy getting almost 50% of it's health off in one hit. Why almost 50%? because of the entry hazards he can set up.
 
Been a long while since I've even played UU... I'm probably thinkin' some other Ground type when I thought Sandslash had Roar... Eh. Considerin' what you said, Anzu, Super Fang may be a decent option on Sandslash, allowing the armadillo to take apart some of the more bad-typed pokémon in the tier.

I wonder if Switcheroo Manetric'll have any use, actually..
 
mtr12 said:
But many if not most of them do have Taunt. LO-Gyara is gradually being phased out in favor of bulkier variants, a process that's been going on for a while now.
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All Walrein has to do is predict the switch and Toxic, which pairs nicely with Super Fang and Hail, and Gyarados is taking Stealth Rock damage it won't live long, and you can always switch to Swampert or another Rock Resist.

Really any set with Super Fang, will be a prediction battle, I see Rotom usage rising in UU.
 
Oh great, Walrein getting Super Fang and Aqua Ring? Its annoying as it is, but adding that is ridicoulous. I think it should be boosted up a tier, because it can be a bitch to take down, I mean that Protect, Hail, Toxic, and whatever the last move in that set is, is already very annoying.
 
SkyDragon said:
Oh great, Walrein getting Super Fang and Aqua Ring? Its annoying as it is, but adding that is ridicoulous. I think it should be boosted up a tier, because it can be a bitch to take down, I mean that Protect, Hail, Toxic, and whatever the last move in that set is, is already very annoying.
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would u drop blizzard for aqua ring?
 
Super Fang seems most useful to
1. compound residual damage or
2. ease prediction.
3. ruin walls

As someone pointed out, if you can hit something with Super Fang then KO with a move you could have 2HKOd with that same move in the first place (unless it's brine).
However, if you aren't sure what will switch in and thus what move will get you the 2HKO, Super Fang can be a nice catch all that will allow you to take the right follow up action once the pokemon is known and sits at 1/2 max HP.

Crobat will seem to work well with either points 1 or 3.
It has the right typing, offences, and speed to force things out, Super Fang the switch-in, U-Turn out to a counter and rinse/repeat while switches get punished by hazards as well.

And as mentioned, the Taunt/Super Fang combo works against walls with Crobat being fast enough to Taunt or trap opponents with Mean Look before they can run.
The problem with the combo is that if you retain roost you won't have a reliable damaging move.
Though Super Fang can beat anything in roughly Log2(current HP) + 1 Power Points since it'll do the 1 HP damage to finish.
I might be off because I'm not sure how the game handles odd HP values (at 5 HP does it take away 2 or 3) but it seems like a reasonable estimate.
So you'll be using ~ 10 PP (without PP max) to beat a full health Max HP Blissey at lvl 100 and ~9 for Hippowdon.
Leppa berry much?

I guess I have my doubts about the wall breaking trapper that lacks a reliable attack but Super Fang definitely boosts the scout Crobat.
 
SkyDragon said:
Oh great, Walrein getting Super Fang and Aqua Ring? Its annoying as it is, but adding that is ridicoulous. I think it should be boosted up a tier, because it can be a bitch to take down, I mean that Protect, Hail, Toxic, and whatever the last move in that set is, is already very annoying.
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Well, he's only any good with Abomasnow, who isn't really that great a pokemon. Also, he suffers from four-moveslot syndrome. I mean, he's required to have Protect and Substitute, along with an attack like Surf (for Tyranitar) or Blizzard (for Gyarados). That leaves one move, and you have to decide between Roar, Encore, Toxic, Super Fang, or whatever. Will having one more choice help you that much? A Rotom forme can probably beat you anyways if it invests in SDef by PP Stall.
 
Ugh. What will stall teams do now?

Sure, they can have Spiritomb switch in, but this just eases the prediction of the other player. Seriously, "they're obviously going to switch in their Spiritomb so I'll have my Crobat U-Turn to Heracross to kill it."

The only counter to Super Fang Walrein is Super Fang. XD
 
deluge said:
Super Fang seems most useful to
1. compound residual damage or
2. ease prediction.
3. ruin walls

As someone pointed out, if you can hit something with Super Fang then KO with a move you could have 2HKOd with that same move in the first place (unless it's brine).
However, if you aren't sure what will switch in and thus what move will get you the 2HKO, Super Fang can be a nice catch all that will allow you to take the right follow up action once the pokemon is known and sits at 1/2 max HP.

Crobat will seem to work well with either points 1 or 3.
It has the right typing, offences, and speed to force things out, Super Fang the switch-in, U-Turn out to a counter and rinse/repeat while switches get punished by hazards as well.

And as mentioned, the Taunt/Super Fang combo works against walls with Crobat being fast enough to Taunt or trap opponents with Mean Look before they can run.
The problem with the combo is that if you retain roost you won't have a reliable damaging move.
Though Super Fang can beat anything in roughly Log2(current HP) + 1 Power Points since it'll do the 1 HP damage to finish.
I might be off because I'm not sure how the game handles odd HP values (at 5 HP does it take away 2 or 3) but it seems like a reasonable estimate.
So you'll be using ~ 10 PP (without PP max) to beat a full health Max HP Blissey at lvl 100 and ~9 for Hippowdon.
Leppa berry much?

I guess I have my doubts about the wall breaking trapper that lacks a reliable attack but Super Fang definitely boosts the scout Crobat.
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Just Super Fang no more than twice on a single Pokemon then U-Turn out.
 
1059860 said:
Just Super Fang no more than twice on a single Pokemon then U-Turn out.
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Yeah, but there was a potential set that didn't have U-turn or any other damaging move.
Like:
Taunt, Super Fang, Mean Look, Roost/Hypnosis
That was what I was talking about in the 2nd to last paragraph.

Practically, I think you'd have to give up Roost and retain U-Turn on a trapping set.
In which case, Crobat could probably use wish support to repeat the strategy multiple times.
 
franky said:
Isn't anybody else worried about Houndoom with Superfang as a lead? It could make a huge turning point early in the match. Personally, a Lonely Houndoom with the movesets Counter / Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Superfang could be deadly in terms of denting the opponent early. Counter / Sucker Punch early on bulky leads. Superfang the second switch-in, taking 50%. Houndoom has Pursuit or Sucker Punch in its disposal to hurt Ghost-types as well. Although this is all theorymon though.
Click to expand...

This is an awesome lead idea
 
deluge said:
Yeah, but there was a potential set that didn't have U-turn or any other damaging move.
Like:
Taunt, Super Fang, Mean Look, Roost/Hypnosis
That was what I was talking about in the 2nd to last paragraph.

Practically, I think you'd have to give up Roost and retain U-Turn on a trapping set.
In which case, Crobat could probably use wish support to repeat the strategy multiple times.
Click to expand...

just remember that super fang can't kill a pokemon
 
latios315 said:
it would still never kill a pokemon with leftovers
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THANK YOU!!!This is exactly what I meant, and even if a pokemon doesn't have leftovers it would take alot of super fangs to faint it (not saying a person wouldn't use a different move to faint it) but yea I think you get my point
 
When I first saw super fang, my first thought wasn't lead crobat or stallrein(mainly because I didn't notice that they got it) was: wall breaker. And the first two pokemon I saw that got it was houndoom and toxicroak, both of them with the potential to become wall breakers. For houndoom(I haven't used toxicroak yet), I've been using this and it's working like a charm:
Houndoom@Life Orb
Naughty Nature
252 Atk / 76 SpA / 180 Spe
Overheat
Crunch
Super Fang
Thunder Fang (for gyarados)

I prefer mixed, but what ever floats your boat.
 
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