The Ideal Lead

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I've been running a Smeargle set that has been getting me off to a good start.

Smeargle@ Choice Scarf
Own Tempo
Jolly
252 HP. 252 Sp, 4 Def

Spore
Will-o-Wisp
Trick
Rapid Spin


It allows me to mess up almost any lead except some opposing Scarfers and Lum/Chesto holders. If they lead with a Zong or something, it's Trick bait. If they use a suicide lead Azelf or something, I can spin the rocks away later. Will-o-Wisp is often totally unexpected, and I usually use it on switches after I Spore (assuming I Tricked). Even without the Trick at the start, I can switch him in later and mess something else up. The Scarf pretty much guarantee they suffer one of my afflictions. It ruins their momentum early on, and allows me to do it again later as well.

In my opinion there's more to a good lead than trying to gain momentum at the start. It should be useful later.
 
Wait, Deo-E is Uber now? Wow, yeah this metagame will be alot more fun and leads will definitely change. As for me, well I won't have to use Trick Azelf worrying about Duel Screen, Spiker/SRer, leads anymore.

Needs more Girafarig =) But in all seriousness I bet we'll be seeing some more leads that spread status or even reflect them back... like Girafarig =)
 
I don't get this topic. Are we just discussing various leads that are effective or what?

Obviously the most effective lead is the one that simultaneously puts your opponent at a disadvantage while allowing you to set up your own strategy, but is that feasible a large majority of the time?

There are a few leads that can take on a majority of the "lead metagame" on at once, (read bulky mixed scarf Tyranitar or Lum Berry Tyranitar) but those are so few that it doesn't really make a difference anyway.

I'd say the ideal lead is constructed simply by viewing the statistics and trying to take on the majority of the top 20 while not forgetting 2 important factors: a.) less used but potentially game breaking leads (read Ninjask) screwing you and b.) setting up your own strategy.

Basically, the ideal lead is one that takes statistics into account to take on the "on average" lead while simultaneously taking on potentially game breaking "surprises" while not forgetting your own strategy.

Example would be one of my favorite creations, the Lum Berry lead Tar set in the analysis. Takes on a majority of the common leads, helps you set your own strategy and it isn't tricked by various surprises (isn't ohkoed by Band Dugtrio (rare lead), can Taunt / Substitute on Ninjask)
 
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Timid
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Trick
-Stealth Rock
-Reflect
-Light Screen

Give a Scarf to Aerodactyl, making its Taunt attempts retarded; switch out, calling Scizor, use Superpower for the obvious Heatran, and then call something else to deal with the Zapdos/Bulky Water. Call Scizor later and win the game. If it's not Aerodactyl, just use Trick anyway, put the screens and SR up, and see what can be done.

Seriously. It used to work. Who would expect a no-attacks, no-Wish Jirachi? Not even myself would. Of course, after it has done its work, I used to use it as a sacrifice for Scizor or Kingdra to come in. The only leads that could give me huge headaches were Deo-S and Tyranitar, but I didn't see any in the first days of Pt.

I'm not using this anymore because I lost the team I had, and then decided to start fresh with a lol Wish Jirachi, but it worked wonderfully in the early Platinum days. I should give it a try again, though. And maybe find a way to deal with Tyranitar.
 
With deoxys gone, im essentially going to have a deoxys replacement - trick scarf azelf with SR. But explosion and u-turn is quite unique. For a lead scarf azelf, with trick, SR and explosion, which move is best, zen headbutt, psychic flamethrower or u-turn (or something else)?
 
An ideal lead for me would have to be Houndoom.

Houndoom @ Choice Scarf
Hp Ground
Overheat
Dark Pulse
*Filler*

This houndoom is so under appreciated, I really hate it. He outclasses so many others, and is quick enough to throw an overheat, switch, throw an overheat.

The biggest downfall for this lead would have to be Stealth rock, which is the fatal flaw in this lead, he doesn't stick around.

I am experimenting with Stathakis to throw together the closest to possible perfect team.
 
If people see random weak pokemon like Houndoom and don't predict a gimmick Scarf (along with probable locking into fire move = Heatran - try to predict around the HP ground that's coming as well) should they even be on the ladder?
 
Outside of Deoxys-E metagames, scarf Staraptor has served me very well as a lead. I've been using it to huge success in format2, and won a few OU matches with it as well. It's a very simple, standard set:

Adamant Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
- Return or Pursuit

Your call on Return vs Pursuit. I went for Return, because honstly what you're going to be pursuing is going to kill you, not switch out (scarfed gengars and whatnot) and you're better off switching yourself, or blasting them with brave bird if you think they aren't scarfed. Still, Pursuit is always useful.

Using Quick Attack is also an option, though without Technician it isn't that awesome. Still decent, however, even with a scarf; this and/or pursuit are usually what makes it a good revenge killer.
 
My favourite lead at the moment is this:

Shaymin-s @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 16 Atk/240 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power/Air Slash
- Quick Attack
- Endeavor

Works in any metagame, so can still be in use when it gets sent to ubers. I've never tried Air Slash before, but it probably works just as well as Earth Power, but it's a matter of coverage preference.

This is how it fares in different situations:

If you can kill it and you're faster, Seed Flare it straight away.
If you can 2HKO it and you're faster, do the same as you get two chances thanks to Focus Sash.
If you can kill it and you're slower, go ahead and do so unless it's a weather lead.
If you can get it to QA's KO range and you're slower (this includes Focus Sash leads), hit it, then KO with QA on turn 2.
If you can't OHKO it and you're slower, let it hit you and then Endeavor, following up with QA in classic FEAR style.

If you are left on 1 HP when the switch-in comes in, you can Endeavor that too. Even better, if the opponent panics and switches around manically, you can leave a large portion of his/her team in ruins. Provided you've got rid of SR, this can come back to deal damage late-game as well.

240 Speed is all you need to outrun everything that you can, so the remaining couple of EVs can be put into Attack to maximise the power of Quick Attack, something that can prove to be much more necessary than at first glance. The Defense-lowering nature serves two purposes - one being that Quick Attack is not weakened by an Attack-lowering nature and the other being that it is easier to activate Focus Sash rather than staying on an unwanted amount of HP.

The only real problems this set has are against fast/durable sleep leads and the relatively rare Fake Out+priority leads.
 
Main problem with that is TTar is going to make that Sash useless. Since Ttar is still as common as it usually is I don't see it working too well. You've also gotta worry about Trick users too.

Against other Skymin who run max speed you'll lose too. That still looks like a really fun set though.
 
Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 148 HP / 244 Atk / 16 Def / 100 Sp.Def
2 IVs on Speed
-Gyro Ball
-Explosion
-Stealth Rock
-Hypnosis

This guy used to be my favorite lead before Platinum additions. I practically loved it. I get to induce sleep while being able to set up rocks. Even exploding with a big blast. With Lum Berry it is able to take common lead sleep inducers like Gengar and Roserade and OHKO them, yes OHKO with the above EV spread. I infuse Tyranitar in my team with this so that when Roserade or Gengar survive by 1hp due to their Focus Sash, they tend to induce sleep once again so Sandstorm destroys them. Although Tyranitar may be asleep, I don't have to worry about getting any other Pokemon's asleep or Toxic Spikes.

This is ruins suicide leads, like Azelf or Deoxys-E. It can deal huge amount of damage on Deo-E. With the above EV spread it can take Deo-E's HP down near OHKO or OHKO, but Deo-E tends to survive due to sash, but still ensures Dual Screen Deoxys-E death without setting up Reflect or Light Screen. While Gyro Ball can OHKO Azelf, and leave it with 1hp with sash. While Azelf survives with 1hp and tends to Fire Blast or Explode, Bronzong is capable of taking both attacks very well or I can switch to a ghost to resist Explosion or Ttar to resist Explosion or Fire Blast and let Azelf die to Sandstorm.

Overall, I've used this guy as lead to get up on the ladder very quickly. Like the time I got Rank 1 on Smogon Server in one day. And other historic accomplishments like getting on rank 1 of Official Server many times. Also, I gave many people idea on this guy and others tend to take the idea and ideas diffuse.
 
Further reports on my Heatran lead after some testing.

Here's a refresher as to what it is

Heatran @ Wide Lens
Modest
252 HP/16 SpA/240SpD
Will-o-Wisp
Stealth Rock
Earth Power
Magma Storm

Against focus sash leads, Magma Storm hits them hard enough to kill, and the End-of-Round damage takes off the sash's ability to save them. Azelf in particular will always get OHKO'd unless it is a bulky set (I've seen NPAzelf survive it). Additionally, if they do survive, they are trapped, unable to switch out, allowing more possibilities (Finish them off, set up rocks, burn them, switch into something they can't do anything to).
Against physical Pokemon who will set up, lay a burn on em and then likely get out of there.
Against things that are going to switch out immediately, lay down stealth rocks.
Against things likely to earthquake, switch to a flyer/levitator.
Earth power is for opposing Heatran primarily, though it has its uses elsewhere. I may switch that out as heatrans seem primarily to be scarved these days. I can't stay in on a fresh scarfed heatran or I will eat their Earth Power and die. And if I switch in to a heatran's fire attack, he's forced to switch out, again not allowing me the opportunity to Earth Power effectively. I'm thinking of dropping it for something like Dark Pulse, which will allow heatran to take down Rotom forms effortlessly, and I continually seem to have problems with them. Dragon Pulse would be another alternative, providing great neutrality coverage alongside Magma storm.
Another thing of note: With the given EVs, this Heatran will always survive an Earth Power from a non-life orbed Skymin. Meaning that lead skymins stay in, thinking they will OHKO with Earth power, only to get trashed by Magma Storm.
 
wildfire393 said:
Further reports on my Heatran lead after some testing.

Here's a refresher as to what it is

Heatran @ Wide Lens
Modest
252 HP/16 SpA/240SpD
Will-o-Wisp
Stealth Rock
Earth Power
Magma Storm

Against focus sash leads, Magma Storm hits them hard enough to kill, and the End-of-Round damage takes off the sash's ability to save them. Azelf in particular will always get OHKO'd unless it is a bulky set (I've seen NPAzelf survive it). Additionally, if they do survive, they are trapped, unable to switch out, allowing more possibilities (Finish them off, set up rocks, burn them, switch into something they can't do anything to).
Against physical Pokemon who will set up, lay a burn on em and then likely get out of there.
Against things that are going to switch out immediately, lay down stealth rocks.
Against things likely to earthquake, switch to a flyer/levitator.
Earth power is for opposing Heatran primarily, though it has its uses elsewhere. I may switch that out as heatrans seem primarily to be scarved these days. I can't stay in on a fresh scarfed heatran or I will eat their Earth Power and die. And if I switch in to a heatran's fire attack, he's forced to switch out, again not allowing me the opportunity to Earth Power effectively. I'm thinking of dropping it for something like Dark Pulse, which will allow heatran to take down Rotom forms effortlessly, and I continually seem to have problems with them. Dragon Pulse would be another alternative, providing great neutrality coverage alongside Magma storm.
Another thing of note: With the given EVs, this Heatran will always survive an Earth Power from a non-life orbed Skymin. Meaning that lead skymins stay in, thinking they will OHKO with Earth power, only to get trashed by Magma Storm.
Click to expand...

I would still have Earth Power. 1x Magma Storm does more damage than a super effective Dark Pulse, whilst I almost never see a Dragon starter. Earth Powercan hit Tar leads, who rarely have Earthquake unless they're CB Tars.
 
Yeah, but if you mispredict once the thing is dead and really unless you know your opponent's team before hand there's no surefire way to tell if a Ttar has EQ without being hit by it first. Plus even with Wide Lens Magma Storm still has eh accuracy.

Gimmicks aren't going to survive metagame shifts, the ideal lead is something that will.

Choice Scarf Metagross has been my favorite lead even before the Platinum upgrades, but now it gets Trick :D

Ganon (Metagross) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 148 HP/116 Atk/244 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Meteor Mash
- Trick
- Explosion
- Earthquake

Enough Speed to outrun Skymin, 338 HP is nice when after you Trick the Scarf for some Leftovers, gives you basically a free turn if the opponent decides to SR on the first turn, excellent revenge killer, fast exploder, kills most leads pretty handily, is much useful in later parts of the match, etc.

Imagine Tricking the Scarf to things that wall you, stuff like Skarmory and CalmCune will be turned into setup fodder.
 
Rumpelstiltskin said:
My Jirachi lead is incredible for the team that I'm currently running with.
It looks like this:

Jirachi @ Toxic Orb
252 HP, 180 Def, 76 Sp. Def, 0 Speed IV
Sassy Nature
-Trick
-U-Turn
-Wish
-Protect

I guess you could call it an anti-lead or w/e, but for me this thing kicks ass.

Against Azelf or Deoxys-E leads I simply U-turn out to Lucario if it's Azelf, using ES for the kill, or Rotom-h if its Deoxys for a shadowball KO.

Anything else I use protect to scout for trick and if they have it I just stay in and let them get very upset by what they've received.

Slow U-turn is good for my Lucario and overall this is very effective in keeping SR off the field, which is good because my Heatran/Scizor counter is Charizard and we all know how much he loves Stealth Rock.

The set originally ran toxic with Stealth Rock in the last slot but after continually getting screwed by trick users, I decided to join in the madness.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Toxic Orb affect Steel Type Pokemon too? After you Protect to scout, your opponent would realize Jirachi was Toxic Orb'd, no?
 
I believe that a pokemon that can pose an offensive threat while still surprising your opponent is the best option in terms of a leading pokemon. Something bulky, that could be able to set up Stealth Rocks, and has a priority move on it and something strong or taunt in the back to deal with a heavier wall.

Yes, I am talking Scizor (unfortunetely, he doesn't meet one of my possible requirements)

Scizor @ Lum Berry / Occa Berry / Focus Sash
EVs: Would have to be worked out...
Adamant Nature - Technician

- X-Scissor
- Bullet Punch
- Reflect / Light Screen / Agility
- Reflect / Light Screen / Baton Pass

Seems interesting, Light Clay can help you set up Dual Screens and Bullet Punch hurts frail leads.
 
my favorite leads are sceptile, solrock, and honchkrow.

Sceptile @ Choice Band
JOLLY(outspeeds max speed azelf)
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Leaf Blade
-earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Crunch

If it's a bronzong i recommend a switch, everything else is wrecked by this. LB TTar, Hippowdown, Aero, EQ electrode, jolteon, Crunch ghosts and azelf, and Dragon Claw the unusual Dragonite Lead, and it is still a 2hko on most salamences (beward of bulkymence)

Solrock @ Focus Sash
Adamant
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Sr
-EQ
-Explosion
-(cant remeber...)

This si the Solrock anti lead set made by umm... it;s in the analysis. look it up.

And finally Honchkrow

Hounchkrow @ Life Orb
Naughty - Insomnia
252 Atk/ 44 Sp. Atl/ 212 Spe
-Superpower
-Sucker Punch
-Heat Wave
-HP Elec/ Drill Peck/ Pursuit

The EVS let it outspeed max speed adamant TTar and ohko it with superpower. Suckerpunch is a staple and heat Wave for Forry/ Scizor. The last slot is determined by need. Dril peck is powerful STAB, and Pursuit hits feeling enemies hard. HO Elec however is great to counter Gyarados, and other flying/water types you may encounter.
 
kamikazeking05 said:
my favorite leads are sceptile, solrock, and honchkrow.

Sceptile @ Choice Band
JOLLY(outspeeds max speed azelf)
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Leaf Blade
-earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Crunch

If it's a bronzong i recommend a switch, everything else is wrecked by this. LB TTar, Hippowdown, Aero, EQ electrode, jolteon, Crunch ghosts and azelf, and Dragon Claw the unusual Dragonite Lead, and it is still a 2hko on most salamences (beward of bulkymence)

Solrock @ Focus Sash
Adamant
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
-Sr
-EQ
-Explosion
-(cant remeber...)

This si the Solrock anti lead set made by umm... it;s in the analysis. look it up.

And finally Honchkrow

Hounchkrow @ Life Orb
Naughty - Insomnia
252 Atk/ 44 Sp. Atl/ 212 Spe
-Superpower
-Sucker Punch
-Heat Wave
-HP Elec/ Drill Peck/ Pursuit

The EVS let it outspeed max speed adamant TTar and ohko it with superpower. Suckerpunch is a staple and heat Wave for Forry/ Scizor. The last slot is determined by need. Dril peck is powerful STAB, and Pursuit hits feeling enemies hard. HO Elec however is great to counter Gyarados, and other flying/water types you may encounter.
Click to expand...

On Solrock, the last spot is probably Trick Room. Or something like that.

On Sceptile, sense so many pokemon have Focus Sash, including most Azelf, I don't think outspeeding it really matters as many carry Fire Blast for the OHKO.
 
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