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Project The Dark Horse Project
- Thread starter CyclicCompound
- Start date
- Status
CyclicCompound mentioned that he wouldn't be accepting hall of fame entries until about a week in, but i'd just like to make an update post letting everyone know that i technically qualify for Bronze Rank at the moment (username: Its Cold Out Here), and i'd also like to share some of my thoughts on Sneasel so far!
Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick
At the moment my experiences with Sneasel have been a bit mixed, although leaning towards the positive side of the spectrum overall, as EonX and i mentioned in the NP thread and IRC earlier, Sneasel definitely has the capability to be an offensive threat in the current metagame thanks to its AMAZING Speed (only four relevant Pokemon even outspeed this thing, and three of them get smashed by Ice Shard), decent power, and strong STAB combination. Sneasel's STAB moves alone hit a large portion of the metagame's top threats for super effective damage, including Meloetta, Delphox, Doublade, Gligar, Virizion, Amoonguss, Slowking, Cresselia, Reuniclus, and Dugtrio, and because of that aforementioned Speed stat, Sneasel has no problem getting the jump on all of these to smack them around, making its offensive niche quite a potent one. This makes Sneasel quite threatening for offensive teams, as it can use this Speed and coverage to its fullest extent against those kinds of teams, often being able to clean up pretty nicely.
Sadly, Sneasel isn't without its flaws, and i personally think that it needs a bit of support to work to its fullest extent. While Sneasel might be fast and decently strong, what it *really* lacks is defenses. Sneasel's incredibly frail all around, and Dark/Ice, while solid offensively, is *very* poor defensively (Ice is weak to all kinds of common offensive types, Stealth Rock weakness, etc). This makes it quite challenging to get Sneasel into the game without smart double switching or bringing it in after a KO, limiting its effectiveness a bit. Also, while Sneasel's great STABs help make up for this somewhat, it often has trouble breaking through bulkier Pokemon such as Alomomola, Aromatisse, and Drapion on its own, and often has to rely on team support to have a chance at getting past them, especially when it can't really take a hit.
So far i've been using Sneasel on a few varients of Omastar H/O, and i think it fits quite nicely there all around. The entry hazards set up by Omastar soften up opposing teams to make it easier for Sneasel to rip things to shreds, and all those wallbreakers such as Hitmonlee, Delphox, and Choice Specs Meloetta are exceptionally good at breaking through those bulky Pokemon that Sneasel struggles with, bringing them into KO range for the ice weasel to clean up at worst. I might try Sneasel out on some bulky offensive playstyles later (possibly with Pursuit to trap Slowking, Delphox, and Meloetta, especially the former for Moltres), but for now i think that teams such as that are where Sneasel fits best.
Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick
At the moment my experiences with Sneasel have been a bit mixed, although leaning towards the positive side of the spectrum overall, as EonX and i mentioned in the NP thread and IRC earlier, Sneasel definitely has the capability to be an offensive threat in the current metagame thanks to its AMAZING Speed (only four relevant Pokemon even outspeed this thing, and three of them get smashed by Ice Shard), decent power, and strong STAB combination. Sneasel's STAB moves alone hit a large portion of the metagame's top threats for super effective damage, including Meloetta, Delphox, Doublade, Gligar, Virizion, Amoonguss, Slowking, Cresselia, Reuniclus, and Dugtrio, and because of that aforementioned Speed stat, Sneasel has no problem getting the jump on all of these to smack them around, making its offensive niche quite a potent one. This makes Sneasel quite threatening for offensive teams, as it can use this Speed and coverage to its fullest extent against those kinds of teams, often being able to clean up pretty nicely.
Sadly, Sneasel isn't without its flaws, and i personally think that it needs a bit of support to work to its fullest extent. While Sneasel might be fast and decently strong, what it *really* lacks is defenses. Sneasel's incredibly frail all around, and Dark/Ice, while solid offensively, is *very* poor defensively (Ice is weak to all kinds of common offensive types, Stealth Rock weakness, etc). This makes it quite challenging to get Sneasel into the game without smart double switching or bringing it in after a KO, limiting its effectiveness a bit. Also, while Sneasel's great STABs help make up for this somewhat, it often has trouble breaking through bulkier Pokemon such as Alomomola, Aromatisse, and Drapion on its own, and often has to rely on team support to have a chance at getting past them, especially when it can't really take a hit.
So far i've been using Sneasel on a few varients of Omastar H/O, and i think it fits quite nicely there all around. The entry hazards set up by Omastar soften up opposing teams to make it easier for Sneasel to rip things to shreds, and all those wallbreakers such as Hitmonlee, Delphox, and Choice Specs Meloetta are exceptionally good at breaking through those bulky Pokemon that Sneasel struggles with, bringing them into KO range for the ice weasel to clean up at worst. I might try Sneasel out on some bulky offensive playstyles later (possibly with Pursuit to trap Slowking, Delphox, and Meloetta, especially the former for Moltres), but for now i think that teams such as that are where Sneasel fits best.
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No ur bad.
Pokemon Showdown! Username: Durant Is Good
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Floatzel
Okay I suppose I can talk about swellow. Even though I havent battled on ym alt yet lol
As I have managed to build a decent team, I found that Swellow absolutely loves Spikes due to the fact that Facade has such an high BP after Guts, but it just falls short of OHKO'ing things. It doesn't really need Spikes though.
Being the third fastest relevant offensive threat in the meta right now if you count Accelgor as one is great, as it's high speed allows it to take out enemies before they can even do something. U-turn is cool, as well as quick attack should something be faster and/or use sucker punch/other priority.
The downsides are that it needs something to take out Steel- and Rock types. I found that Dugtrio, ofcourse, can work, however I prefer Virizion as a partner over Duggy, since it synergises better with Swellow and it can setup on targets. Doublade forms a problem if you choose Virizion, however, so pack a special attacker if you do so.
I also found Pivot Magneton w/ eviolite to be amazing, and most people expect Magneton to be Scarfed/Specs so you can get a surprise kill if you use Flash Cannon followed by HP Grass on incoming Ground Types. Virizion can help out with the Knock Off problem.
As I have managed to build a decent team, I found that Swellow absolutely loves Spikes due to the fact that Facade has such an high BP after Guts, but it just falls short of OHKO'ing things. It doesn't really need Spikes though.
Being the third fastest relevant offensive threat in the meta right now if you count Accelgor as one is great, as it's high speed allows it to take out enemies before they can even do something. U-turn is cool, as well as quick attack should something be faster and/or use sucker punch/other priority.
The downsides are that it needs something to take out Steel- and Rock types. I found that Dugtrio, ofcourse, can work, however I prefer Virizion as a partner over Duggy, since it synergises better with Swellow and it can setup on targets. Doublade forms a problem if you choose Virizion, however, so pack a special attacker if you do so.
I also found Pivot Magneton w/ eviolite to be amazing, and most people expect Magneton to be Scarfed/Specs so you can get a surprise kill if you use Flash Cannon followed by HP Grass on incoming Ground Types. Virizion can help out with the Knock Off problem.
(copying my post from the np thread)
Haven't played that much with Kricketune yet (only like 20 games so far) but it's been doing really great so far, and so has Sticky Web in general. It's access to Taunt is really amazing, outspeeding all Defoggers except Shiftry. It can also Taunt Omastar leads which are slower, has access to Knock Off to cripple any Pokemon, and Sash + Endeavor is a cool combo that can bring down any Pokemon to low HP.
Sticky Web is still as easy to build as it was with Shuckle, and I doubt there's any surprise there. You just pick Kricketune, Doublade, Hitmonlee, and 3 other Pokemon of your choice. It's hard to find opportunities to set up both Sticky Web and SR however, and Lee can provide free switches to Gligar (not as free as it can lose an Eviolite, but its still an opportunity to Defog) so you should be careful not to let that happen.
Overall I kinda liked playing with Kricketune and Sticky Web so far, pretty fun stuff.
Haven't played that much with Kricketune yet (only like 20 games so far) but it's been doing really great so far, and so has Sticky Web in general. It's access to Taunt is really amazing, outspeeding all Defoggers except Shiftry. It can also Taunt Omastar leads which are slower, has access to Knock Off to cripple any Pokemon, and Sash + Endeavor is a cool combo that can bring down any Pokemon to low HP.
Sticky Web is still as easy to build as it was with Shuckle, and I doubt there's any surprise there. You just pick Kricketune, Doublade, Hitmonlee, and 3 other Pokemon of your choice. It's hard to find opportunities to set up both Sticky Web and SR however, and Lee can provide free switches to Gligar (not as free as it can lose an Eviolite, but its still an opportunity to Defog) so you should be careful not to let that happen.
Overall I kinda liked playing with Kricketune and Sticky Web so far, pretty fun stuff.
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Pokemon Showdown! Username: Scyther is Bae
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon: Scyther
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon: Scyther
Pokemon Showdown! Username: GiveMeFlamingRed
Hall of Fame Standing: none yo
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: SAWK.
Hall of Fame Standing: none yo
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: SAWK.
Pokemon Showdown! Username: Warm Potato Mage
Hall Of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Audino
Hall Of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Audino
Pokemon Showdown! Username: Really Bad Builds
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Gourgeist
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Gourgeist
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Thanks everyone for participating! I think it's safe to start accepting hall of fame registrations from those who have reached one of the ladder spots necessary for entry. I didn't at first just because I wanted to give the ladder an extra few days to inflate so that people couldn't simply play ~20 games and be in the top 10, but it looks like the top ranked players are all >1500, which is where the meta tends to settle (I think).
With that said, congratulations to Molk for coming in at #1 with Sneasel, earning him a spot in our Grandmaster Hall of Fame!
EDIT: just in case my post implied the opposite, you can still register for this at any time with any Pokemon regardless of who got into the hall of fame or whatever :)
With that said, congratulations to Molk for coming in at #1 with Sneasel, earning him a spot in our Grandmaster Hall of Fame!
EDIT: just in case my post implied the opposite, you can still register for this at any time with any Pokemon regardless of who got into the hall of fame or whatever :)
Just to make it official....
Pokemon Showdown! Username: Its Cold Out Here
Dark Horse Pokemon: Sneasel
Screenshot of Top 50 Ladder Ranking: http://puu.sh/b6Qwr/6773781053.jpg
Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:
Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick
Questions:
How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? I've actually been interested in trying Sneasel for quite a while, even in past metagames i thought its STAB combination and great Speed stat gave it some potential, however i wasn't sure if it was worth using over another similar Pokemon: Zoroark. Of course Sneasel still had its advantages over the illusion fox (Ice Punching Gligar and Virizion), but Zoroark was just so much better in every other way, not to mention how deadly Illusion was that i didn't see a reason to use Sneasel. Without Zoroark in the tier however, Sneasel had a potential chance to shine without being outcompeted, so i decided to give it a shot.
How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? As i mentioned in my previous post, knowing Sneasel's stat spread (fast, frail, somewhat strong but relies on coverage a bit) i knew that it'd probably work best on a spikestacking offense team. Multiple layers of entry hazards help Sneasel break through bulkier Pokemon and slowly bring faster threats into the KO range of Ice Shard as the match goes on, making it easier for Sneasel to perform its role as a cleaner. On top of this, powerful wallbreakers such as Hitmonlee and Choice Specs Meloetta that can easily break through the walls that Sneasel struggles with naturally fit on a team like this, making it quite easy to pressure or outright eliminate the Pokemon that stand in weasel's way.
Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? I didn't really feel a difference in difficulty, but there's one thing for sure: it makes it more fun to climb the ladder with something that isn't bog standard, whether its just one unconventional Pokemon or multiple. Really helps break the monotony of playing game after game on the ladder imo.
now that i've reached #1 on this alt, i'll probably try and keep laddering to keep my position, but i'll also be testing out Swords Dance Sneasel on another alt while i do that. It might not be the easiest to set up (you'd mostly be relying on forced switches here), but if Sneasel can get that Swords Dance off i can see it sweeping offensive teams pretty cleanly between its coverage, speed, and priority, the extra boost in Attack should help a little bit against the bulkier Pokemon that Sneasel struggles with too. The only problem is, do i try using it over Ice Shard, Ice Punch, or Low Kick first? Does anyone have any input?
Might sign up with a different mon on another alt cause why not btw
Pokemon Showdown! Username: Its Cold Out Here
Dark Horse Pokemon: Sneasel
Screenshot of Top 50 Ladder Ranking: http://puu.sh/b6Qwr/6773781053.jpg
Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:
Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Low Kick
Questions:
How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? I've actually been interested in trying Sneasel for quite a while, even in past metagames i thought its STAB combination and great Speed stat gave it some potential, however i wasn't sure if it was worth using over another similar Pokemon: Zoroark. Of course Sneasel still had its advantages over the illusion fox (Ice Punching Gligar and Virizion), but Zoroark was just so much better in every other way, not to mention how deadly Illusion was that i didn't see a reason to use Sneasel. Without Zoroark in the tier however, Sneasel had a potential chance to shine without being outcompeted, so i decided to give it a shot.
How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? As i mentioned in my previous post, knowing Sneasel's stat spread (fast, frail, somewhat strong but relies on coverage a bit) i knew that it'd probably work best on a spikestacking offense team. Multiple layers of entry hazards help Sneasel break through bulkier Pokemon and slowly bring faster threats into the KO range of Ice Shard as the match goes on, making it easier for Sneasel to perform its role as a cleaner. On top of this, powerful wallbreakers such as Hitmonlee and Choice Specs Meloetta that can easily break through the walls that Sneasel struggles with naturally fit on a team like this, making it quite easy to pressure or outright eliminate the Pokemon that stand in weasel's way.
Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? I didn't really feel a difference in difficulty, but there's one thing for sure: it makes it more fun to climb the ladder with something that isn't bog standard, whether its just one unconventional Pokemon or multiple. Really helps break the monotony of playing game after game on the ladder imo.
now that i've reached #1 on this alt, i'll probably try and keep laddering to keep my position, but i'll also be testing out Swords Dance Sneasel on another alt while i do that. It might not be the easiest to set up (you'd mostly be relying on forced switches here), but if Sneasel can get that Swords Dance off i can see it sweeping offensive teams pretty cleanly between its coverage, speed, and priority, the extra boost in Attack should help a little bit against the bulkier Pokemon that Sneasel struggles with too. The only problem is, do i try using it over Ice Shard, Ice Punch, or Low Kick first? Does anyone have any input?
Might sign up with a different mon on another alt cause why not btw
My favorite part of the above post is that molk has 3 alts in the top 5, what a nerd
This looks like fun, I'll give it a shot.
Pokemon Showdown! Username: solid_rocker
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sceptile
Pokemon Showdown! Username: solid_rocker
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sceptile
DANG Sawk is so much better than I thought it was. This thing is basically a Hitmonlee junior, but with Ice Punch. I'm running it with Sticky Web support from Kricketune and this thing absolutely crushes souls. The few Pokemon it can't outright destroy are set up on with another teammate, SubBU Gallade. Nobody on the ladder ever suspects it to run this (probably because everyone loves AV). For the rest of its teammates, they're all basically strong wallbreakers because that's just what Sticky Web is about. :) I also use Doublade because I kinda want to keep my Sticky Web on the field.
Honestly, I would prefer using Hitmonlee over Sawk, but Sawk is still really cool since it doesn't have to resort to using Double-Edge to get past Amoonguss and Gligar. I use an Adamant LO set on Sawk and it's still pretty cool, but it doesn't compare to Hitmonlee's Reckless High Jump Kick.
Btw I ran Durant for a while, but it honestly had terrible synergy with the team I wanted to use, so I replaced it with Meloetta, which seems to fair much better. Also, Sticky Web seems extremely important for Sawk because it enables it to rip past standard teams much easier. There's a reason why Shuckle was banned: Sticky Web is pretty overpowered. I wish Sawk had priority Mach Punch or something to differentiate itself from Gallade better. :(
DANG Sawk is so much better than I thought it was. This thing is basically a Hitmonlee junior, but with Ice Punch. I'm running it with Sticky Web support from Kricketune and this thing absolutely crushes souls.
Eh I don't run Ice Punch. Most relevant flying types die to CC (and Knock Off in Sigi's case)
Pokemon Showdown! Username: Gen III > all
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sliggoo
Hall of Fame Standing: None
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sliggoo
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