Sword&Shield&Speculation!

Should we allow Melmetal in the base meta?


  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
Nah, Shedinja is now even weaker to T-tar now, cause of not only sand but also pursuit, and without a focus sash, it isn't going to survive in a match for a while. But considering that it has a niche in stall it will might have the same niche in Gen 8 too.
Well yeah. Obviously Shedinja won’t ever beat Tyranitar without a super buff to Wonder Guard or something. I am also not denying that Tyranitar will have high usage.
However, without the gymnastics of needing multiple defoggers and Mega Sableye, Shedinja can fit into more practical teams much more easily. Stealth Rocks/Spikes were Shedinja’s bane for Gen 6/7 because of that nerf to Sand.
Well with HDB, Shedinja doesn’t have to worry about dying by just switching simply because you didn’t remove some caltrops and pebbles, which is honestly way better than being able to tank a single pursuit. And even if Shedinja could tank infinite pursuits, I think the utility of pivoting into (almost) any dangerous Pokemon is definitely worth it.
 
Well yeah. Obviously Shedinja won’t ever beat Tyranitar without a super buff to Wonder Guard or something. I am also not denying that Tyranitar will have high usage.
However, without the gymnastics of needing multiple defoggers and Mega Sableye, Shedinja can fit into more practical teams much more easily. Stealth Rocks/Spikes were Shedinja’s bane for Gen 6/7 because of that nerf to Sand.
Well with HDB, Shedinja doesn’t have to worry about dying by just switching simply because you didn’t remove some caltrops and pebbles, which is honestly way better than being able to tank a single pursuit. And even if Shedinja could tank infinite pursuits, I think the utility of pivoting into (almost) any dangerous Pokemon is definitely worth it.
I agree with that, though using Shed is going to be more risky because with HDB, while it can just switch into Spikes/Stealth Rocks for free using it will require more prediction, since it really isn't able to switch in freely at all with literally 1 HP. Now being a more prediction reliant Pokemon isn't that big of a drawback, but if it is more viable than before yet as risky as before, there needs to be some type of high reward that can come out of Shedinja. Otherwise it won't be considered on standard teams, like I said I have a feeling it will be considered much more for stall if anything because it is able to switch into hazards for free, so it will be viable and if using right it could probably do a lot of work on standard teams, but it is more risky, and even with that if the reward is great enough, then I don't know if it will be considered on anything but stall.
 
Some big changes are incoming! Datamines have arrived, and some things have been discovered.

For one thing, MUCH more old-gen legendaries than we previously thought seem to be available. Aside from Melmetal being OFFICIALLY confirmed, say hello to Celebi, Virizion, Cobalion, Terrakion, Keldeo, Necrozma and Zeraora! Ubers ain't looking so barren anymore either, with Mewtwo, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem-Black and White, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane/Dawn-Wings and Marshadow in the game! Finally, not only are Blastoise and Venusaur confirmed to return, but all the Alola starters have surprisingly come back as well!

That's not all though: Some moves have been deleted as well! Most of it is pretty fillery low-grade trash and Z-Moves, but nonetheless we must say goodbye to Pursuit, Return, Frustration and even Hidden Power.

https://i.imgur.com/KLFxfEF.png full pokemon menu spritesheet
https://pastebin.com/3FTfUgzd snapped moves list
 
Well, goodbye to several Pokemon who don't have reliable coverage and to literally every Pursuit Trapper.
 
Strength Sap Drifblim doesn't actually sound super amazing to me. Drifblim's HP stat is super high, so it won't get as much proportional HP from Strength Sap.
 
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Movepools: https://hastebin.com/ukakagimix.pl
All Info Part 1: https://pastebin.com/Cyg8Rp53
All Info Part 2: https://pastebin.com/c6EFsDjr
New Moves Compendium: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ore-posting-see-2nd-post-for-summary.3656151/
Image of All Mons: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643676366541422592/643691002577551360/efx94mhre2y31.png

Types
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Hazards
Stealth Rock
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(Stunfisk-Galar)
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(Drednaw) (Coalossal) (Sandacobra) (Cursola) (Runerigus) (Stonjourner) (Copperajah) (Duraludon)
Spikes
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(Coalossal) (Pincurchin)
Toxic Spikes
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(Runerigus) (Eternatus)
Sticky Web
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(Orbeetle)
Defog
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(Corviknight) (Cramorant) (Sirfetch'd) (Frosmoth)
Rapid Spin
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(Eldegoss) (Coalossal) (Mr. Rime) (Morpeko)

Set-Up
Dragon Dance
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(Flapple) (Dragapult) (Eternatus)
Nasty Plot
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(Corviknight) (Thievul) (Polteageist) (Grimmsnarl) (Mr. Rime) (Runerigus) (Morpeko)
Swords Dance
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(Rapidash-Galar)
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(Rillaboom) (Inteleon) (Greedent) (Dubwool) (Drednaw) (Perrserker) (Sirfetch'd) (Falinks) (Duraludon) (Zacian)

Weather
Rain
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(Drednaw) (Barraskewda)
Sun
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Sand
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(Dracozolt) (Dracovish)
Hail
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(Eiscue) (Arctozolt) (Arctovish)
 
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Key Players
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Excadrill is as scary as always. Thankfully it's partners in crime survived the aftermath as well allowing Excadrill to perform at peak performance. On top of that Excadrill received second hand buffs through the Rapid Spin change that gives it +1 Speed making it a little bit more self reliable though finding the time to both Spin + Swords Dance can be tricky. Still has to deal with other checks like Rotom-Wash, Quagsire, Hawlucha, Mandibuzz, and Eiscue.

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Gyarados is the dumbest mon right now. Flying Dynamoves are broke af and give anything with flying moves a huge boost. On top of that Gyarados gets stacked for getting kills which essentially turns you z-boosted bounce into a dragon dance as well. Without running scarf Gengar, Zeraora, Galvantula, or Rotom Gyarados will probo find a way to end your matches off one misplay. Such a carried mon tbh.

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Mentioned before but your good ol' buddy pal Roto-Wash returns. checks the two big threats I mentioned above while continuing to do Rotom things. It's even pretty scary when dynamaxed since both of your moves will set up Rain/Terrain that will boost that move thereafter while allowing it to check things like Excadrill even when weakened. Recommend 216+ investment while Gyarados is still around, it allows you to outspeed and kill it when you are chipped and saves you from dying from Z Bounce.

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/Barraskewda
On top of sand returning, Rain also gets it's all-star setter from the last gen back. Though missing Mega Swampert, Dynamax helps to fill in that last fire power with retardedly strong water-type moves. Even if Rain is down any of your mons can set it back up again if they need to. Ludicolo returns as a prime mon on this comp due to it's typing, power, etc. but also gets a new partner in Barraskewda. Barraskewda is a bonkers mon with access to Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Bounce, and Poison Jab. Zen Headbutt being an answer to Toxapex and Close Combat/Bounce being ways to boost your stats in Dynamax form. Really good combo imo.

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Here are some other examples of strong Dynamax-Flying users. Hawlucha is the most prominent since it now has Close Combat + White Herb to easily proc it's unburden and get swinging. On top of that it also has Fighting while dynamax which grants attacks. Very similar to Gyarados and perhaps even stronger, though Gyarados still has more times to actually pull of it's sweep. Braviary can work as a scarfer and Defiant user but it also reaches for the same benefits as Hawlucha with Fighting/Flying coverage. Not as volatile but not as risky either. And finally is Togekiss who is extremely deadly after a Nasty Plot and one Air Slash. Even after the dynamax is over Toge will be faster and be able to flinch things it needs to and if it uses Flamethrower while dynamax the steel-types will have to worry about sun persisting for a few turns.

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From Let's Go into the new age Melmetal is here to claim it's place. Stupidly strong mon with it's signature Double Iron Bash, everytime it comes in it's destined to do damage. You can swap between Thunder Punch, Earthquake, Superpower, and Thunder Wave for some sick coverage. I think Thunder Wave is a crucial move for crippling actual switch ins for this monsters so I'd stick with that. Don't have much to say, it's a very scary pivot but weak specially.

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/Corviknight
The return of the infamous Gen 7 core... sort of. Corviknight doesn't have the same coverage and added Leech Seed like Celesteela did but it provides Roost and Taunt. Otherwise not much to say. If you like Balance/Semi-stall cores than this should work for you AND you should be preparing to beat it as well. Especially Pex who can nullify a lot of win cons still.

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Gengar got a whole new slew of tools to support it. First off it's scarf set is much better now since it's STAB Shadow Ball will contest a lot of the metagame at the moment and Thunderbolt is an amazing way to revenge kill Gyarados. ON TOP OF THAT you also block Hawlucha from proccing Unburden via Close Combat. Second off is the fact Gengar now has access to Nasty Plot which allows it to become a very scary stall breaker. Combined with possibly Taunt and Focus Blast Gengar could decimate defensive teams better than ever, especially with the end of Chansey. Finally is the fact that Dynamax Poison moves also boost Special Attack which allows Gengar to boost to extremely scary levels of offense without losing any tempo setting up.

Rillaboom
Rillaboom's interesting with it's innate Grassy Surge. It's a very tool right now as well since it helps to weaken Earthquake damage. But the Grassy Surge also helps to boost it's own damage potential similar to Tapu Bulu. Though most stats bar Attack are kind of subpar, this Pokemon can get away with using Choice Scarf combined with U-Turn to keep things like Excadrill in check. It's an alright mon designed to do alright things though I haven't seen much experimentation for a Choice Band set so maybe that's worth the go.

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Ditto is a really popular pick right now, it capitalizes on letting your opponent do the dynamax boosting for you and then checking/sweeping with their mon. Though I think Ditto is overrated, it does at the very least force the other players to play your game and deny beneficial boost from them. Many players are holding Ditto in high regard right now.

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Unmentioned Scarfers, most of these can revenge kill +1 Gyarados which is important.

Cinderace
This mon is basically Greninja but a Fire Starter. Zen Headbutt and Low Kick also provide it extremely good coverage allowing it to hit Duraludon and Toxapex. Not to mention it's in a nigh uncontestable speed tier. For now this Pokemon is extremely and will probo remain consistently good though there isn't much to add on that hasn't already been said. It's very much a "speak for yourself" mon.

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Surprisingly haven't seen this mon do too many things. Besides checking Hawlucha or Melmetal it doesn't have a great hit list of things it nullifies. Not to mention that King's Shielding won't save you from Dynamax moves. Kind of didn't want to believe that Aegislash might be fair but this isn't exactly a metagame it'll thrive in. Still this mon is retardedly strong because omegalul base 140 Shadow Ball is gonna kicks somebodies dick in.

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With the addition of Dragon Dance and Icicle Spear the dream is sort of alive for Kyurem Black. People are definitely overestimating how good it is and while these changes are beneficial, I don't think it's ban worthy. But Kyurem-B benefits a lot off of Dynamax giving it just a little bit more bulk and fire power to beat some previous half checks to it. It's a pretty scary mon but still held back by it's typing not providing much for it and leaving it exposed.

Darmanitan-Galar
A lot of people have been bitching about this mon. But essentially it always has Choice Banned equipped and can use ANOTHER Choice Band or Choice Scarf. Because of this it's far more powerful than it's previous incarnation while also coming up with a beefed up moveset that includes Ice moves as well. It's a very scary mon that needs to be played around but it's vulnerability to chip damage will prevent it from being broken.

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Aurora Veil is back pepehands

Eiscue
This is yet another mon a lot of people have been bitching about. It basically has a disguise that can be set up multiple times. On top of that it has access to Belly Drum so people are using that disguise as an oppurtunity to use it alongside Salac Berry and cheese wins AND if this mon decides to Dynamax and use a Ice move it will set up hail and refresh it's free hit. Though this mon is exploitable since any special move goes past it's ability and prevents it from being absurd. Though it's easy to see how somebody not informed on how it's ability works would think it's broken.

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This thing is like Eiscue but not as gimmicky. Just slap a Choice Band on this thing and it can put in a lot of work. Sure it needs to be afraid of the plentiful amount of Steel-types it's still got good things going for it as a fail safe check to a lot of mons in the game. Feels splashable.

Speed Round
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Chlorophyll stuff, now has Earth Power, Dynamax Poison for Special Attack buffs.
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Can probo use dynamax well physical sets at least have a fighting move for attack buffs, gained Nasty Plot
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Like Darm but also comes with priority and the privilege to Knock items off of things that somehow live
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Ice STAB is pretty good right now hitting a lot of things neutrally. CB Ice Shard might be good for revenge killing.
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Gyarados bait and still struggles with Pex. But it has Air Slash now maybe you can do something funny like Calm Mind + Dynamax Air Slash gimmicks idk.
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Still has Dragon Dance, dyna fighting boost attack. Decent Stealth Rocker and also non Gengar check (as long as they don't Dynamax)
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Stealth Rocks is this things only real niche. Has a little bit more special attack than Mew and a little bit worst special bulk/speed but Photon Geyser is a good move.
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Woah it's early gen 6 where Mandibuzz is actually kind of alright. Foul Play checks things trying to get big on you.
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It gets spin and a bunch of hazards, probo a really good lead.
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Defiant mon that also gets Sucker Punch.
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It sort of exist, I don't have much to say but it's probo not awful.
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Unaware, Clefable still does Clefable stuff.
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You have a new item the removes entry hazard damage allowing it be better fit on stall.
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There aren't enough Degens abusing this rn.
Hatterne
I heard it's good as a Trick Room sweeper or something. It's defo got the mad annoying bulk for it.
Polteageist
It get's Shell Smash as an Ghost-type which is kind of sick.

Probo forgot shit but I already typed out a lot so lol
 
With Sword&Shield's official metagames being barely on the horizon, this thread is soon to be redundant! Thanks to everyone who helped with this project and played, it was a lot of fun. Let's hope the real deal provides just as much entertainment. See you on the ladder!
 
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