Swampert

I've had much more sucess running CB Pert than the standard Mixpert in 5th gen OU to be honest. And it's wasn't even that good - the lack of bulk is very, very noticeable.

People cite Ferrothorn as the main reason why Bulky Waters don't work this Gen, but I think theres also another one - Rotom-W. These two ensure that unless said Water-type has some specific niche (like Jellicent - spinblocking) it will fail to compete with the "top dogs" of OU. Sad but true.
 
Swamp isnt completely sucks. He's just outclassed by Rotom-W, Vaporeon, Quag, and their bulky water pals.

@zyrefredrick most Swampert I faced carry SR & Roar which Quagsire cant do...
 
SupremeDirt said:
Why do people still use Pert? He is completely outclassed by Gastrodon.
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LMFAO what?!?! This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! First of all, ALL of swampert's base stats are higher than quagsire's. Furthermore, swampert has a much larger physical movepool than quagsire (he actually gets outrage and superpower, which quagsire doesn't). In terms of support moves, he also gets stealth rock, which quagsire doesn't. Granted, quagsire does have recover and better abilities, but he can't hit as hard and he can't absorb attacks as well as swampert can. So, he by no means outclasses swampert.
 
lmitchell0012 said:
LMFAO what?!?! This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! First of all, ALL of swampert's base stats are higher than quagsire's. Furthermore, swampert has a much larger physical movepool than quagsire (he actually gets outrage and superpower, which quagsire doesn't). In terms of support moves, he also gets stealth rock, which quagsire doesn't. Granted, quagsire does have recover and better abilities, but he can't hit as hard and he can't absorb attacks as well as swampert can. So, he by no means outclasses swampert.
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You're kidding, right?
 
It might be true, but it doesn't mean he's not outclassed. Getting Stealth Rock is great for Pert though.

Recover and better abilities are worth so much more for Quagsire than you seemed to say by glossing over them like that! Also, Outrage and Superpower are almost completely useless for Swampert....

*wonders whether it was a joke?*
 
Yeah, Stealth Rock isn't as valuable as it used to be, while instant recovery is more important than ever. Not to mention, water immunity is REALLY good in this metagame...
 
lmitchell0012 said:
LMFAO what?!?! This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! First of all, ALL of swampert's base stats are higher than quagsire's. Furthermore, swampert has a much larger physical movepool than quagsire (he actually gets outrage and superpower, which quagsire doesn't). In terms of support moves, he also gets stealth rock, which quagsire doesn't. Granted, quagsire does have recover and better abilities, but he can't hit as hard and he can't absorb attacks as well as swampert can. So, he by no means outclasses swampert.
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Too be fair, a pokemon's useage in the ladder is determined by it's ability to accomplish a specific role, base stats and whatnot are important but really, it's a combination of movepool, typing, stats,ability and the current metagame that determine a pokemon's usefulness and reason to use it.

Swampert was a great pokemon last generation but with fifth gen, it's definitely fallen and not really able to keep up with with Quagsire and also Gastrodon i suppose in the role of general bulky water. Quagsire has very decent bulk and with the addition of recover, stockpile heck even curse in combination with either water absorb, giving it an immunity and futher recovery or unaware, which lets it switch in on stat boosters makes it a much more potent defensive threat than Swampert. Heck, Quagsire even gets access to encore and yawn so it does have pseudo shuffling. Come to think about it, the only thing Swampert has over Quagsire is Stealth Rocks.

Swampert is by no means a bad pokemon but it is pretty much out classed this generation. If you're looking for a physical attacker then i think there are better options than Swampert. Outrage? How many Swamperts actually run it? Also, if anything, Quagsire can absorb attacks better than Swampert does because he actually can ABSORB water attacks and laughs in the face of stat boosters.
 
Everything else got stronger and he just couldn't keep up defensively. The lack of reliable recovery finally did Swampert in. He couldn't avoid it forever. Also, if a Pokemon enters a new generation without gaining anything significant in the process, it's usually not a good sign. You need new tools to combat everybody else's new tools.

Frankly, the reason Swampert is even OU is because some people just don't want to let go *tear*
 
Yes, I know that in terms of the metagame quagsire is generally more useful. I just hate seeing people talk about swampert that way...I had to stick up for him ;-).
 
Redtype said:
People cite Ferrothorn as the main reason why Bulky Waters don't work this Gen, but I think theres also another one - Rotom-W. These two ensure that unless said Water-type has some specific niche (like Jellicent - spinblocking) it will fail to compete with the "top dogs" of OU. Sad but true.
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For 4x weak to grass sure, but I've setup Suicune on Ferrothorn more times than I care to count even with Power Whip and Leech Seed. You have a fair few chances to burn it with Scald, and after that Power Whip is worthless.

But I digress, yeah Ferrothorn is a solid switchin to Swampert, but Power Whip is incredibly easy to absorb with so many top-tier 4x resist running about.
 
zyrefredric said:
I read through the usage statistics that were recently posted, and I seemed to noticed that a few people were scandalized by how swampert gets more usage than quagsire (or even gastrodon), when it is severely outclassed. Is this true? Now I know quagsire got a really good upgrade in unaware, but is swmpert really that bad now?

I guess what I'm asking is, what niche could swampert do, that quagsire can't?
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Quagsire has about a 50/50 chance of being 2HKO'd by EQ after lefties from Adamant LO Excadrill and has a small chance to OHKO back with EQ after LO damage, while 252/252 Swampert has a 97% chance to survive after lefties and EQ always OHKOs after LO damage. Waterfall also OHKOs 99% of the time after LO damage.

Quagsire may have recovery and Unaware, but it really has pitiful (special) attack and no great special bulk. It even has a decent chance of not 2HKOing YacheChomp with Ice Beam. That's just bad. It's better defensively than Swampert, sure, but it can't do much back, and in this hyper offensive metagame, that's a pitfall.
 
Quagsire may have recovery, but don't confuse longevity with "better defensively." You'll be disappointed to find the sheer number of things capable of 2HKOing it without the need to boost.
 
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