Resource SV UU DLC 2 Viability Rankings- Update at Post #281

[Goro Yagami]

it struggles to do much against darks.

It 1v1's Lokix and Tyranitar with Strength Sap and with Tera, it's able to play around mons like Weavile or Zarude.
Ofc it would rather not face dark types in general, but its rarely useless if it ever runs into one (apart from like Mandibuzz, which I hope is an uncommon mon)

 

[Tree69420]

Noms: Slowbro, Magnezone to B-
Slowbro is significantly better than Slowking at taking on Dogi, and the increased physical bulk can be useful vs Weavile and Exca as well. I've been running scald/psynoise/fsight/slack which feels pretty good on certain teams. Obviously, slowking having chilly is way better vs some stuff but the physbulk is much nicer in certain matchups
People have been glazing Magneton, but I think Magnezone is a B- mon in its own right. Run Timid Specs, it picks up a lot more ranges than Magneton does. Tera Blast Ground OHKOs Heatran and Exca, and since Zap left many teams aren't running proper voltblockers or even voltblockers at all, and while Grass types are fine into weaker mons like boots shocks and washtom, Magnezone does a ton of damage with its Flash Cannon, or even resisted Volt. It also picks up KOs vs washtom at solid %s and can ohko many elec weaks. The increased bulk by 20 in each stat compared to Magneton lets it take many hits such as Latios Draco significantly better, and lets it function as a semi defensive piece on your team. You could arguably drop Magnet Pull for Analytic, but I think trapping Skarm and Tink consistently as well as the occasional Tran, Exca, Meta, Sciz, etc is more useful.

 

[Goombatower69]

Nobody seems to mention it, so here it is:

B- -> B
Keldeo ate like a king these shifts. Loosing a major roadblock in Zapdos (can live most of Kelds attacks, paras on flip turn, one shots if left alive) is so good for it. Additionally it gained new victims in Heatran, Blissey and skarmory, while also switching in and killing Non-tera Weavile with priority is insanely valuable. Clodsire is a problem of course, but one that is rectified rather easily with teammates likes Excadrill.

 

[Magcargo]

-> B

Skarmory and Weavile are amazing new partners for Reuniclus. Having Magic Guard in this climate is simply too good in a metagame full of passive damage between Toxic,, Spikes, etc and Reuniclus winds up outlasting many of its checks in the course of an actual game. Magic Guard is also amazing since it lets Reuniclus run items besides Boots, like Colbur. This also makes it a great Weavile lure in general, as it can weaken Knock Damage with Colbur and KO back with Focus Blast. I also believe other options such as Thunder Wave and Knock Off are great in this metagame, but haven't expiremented with those as much. Lastly, Reuniclus is a fantastic check to Okidogi, which is typically very difficult to check otherwise. I think the presence of Hoopa does limit it a bit, but it is nonetheless a decent option in the current format.

-> B

With Zapdos gone, Sinistcha is significantly better. Stun Spore Hex is amazing now, crippling many of Sinistcha's common switch-ins like Heatran and Tornadus-T while getting off big burst damage in the long term with Hex. Skarm is an amazing new partner for cha, as it can help relieve the pressure from the likes of Weavile or Lowkix, while also setting up Spikes for Cha to spinblock. Preventing Spikes from getting off is extremely powerful in the format where some of the breakers like Hoopa-U are difficult to have a "hard" switch-in for so Sinistcha's utility in-battle winds up being highly useful in practice imo. Weavile might seem like a bad addition for it, but its actually one of cha's best partners since it can help pivot around some of its bad match-ups like Torn-T and opposing Dark / Ghost-types. Cha does a great job checking a lot of weavile's more common checks like Keldeo, Quaquaval, etc. I've been liking Tera Dark on Cha to screw over Skeledirge, Hoopa-U, and Weavile + boost Foul Play (if you elect to run that move).

-> S-

A strong sniper rifle. Compared to the likes of Hoopa-U, it certainly is a bit less "free" since it has to pick its spots and doesn't have the raw bulk, but the combination of Speed and Power in this metagame combined with its reliability makes it a powerful end-game piece if played well on a hazard stack team. When supplemented by Hazards and status support, a well played weavile will be a top tier progress maker. I'd argue its defensive utility isn't even half bad thanks to its strong priority Ice Shard and ability to pivot into Ghost / Dark moves (which can still be difficult to switch into imo). I think a lot of Teras work well on it, but I've been liking Stellar to give all its moves a bit more reliability vs those one or two checks in the end-game.

-> A+

I've been seeing some players call this mon mid which is laughable. Bro checks a good chunk of the metagame, has Whirlwind to prevent dangerous setup from the likes of Zarude, Non-guard dog Okidogi, Some Serps, Revaroom, Lokix, etc. This mons Spikes are putting the tier in a stranglehold and that will be the case regardless of whether Weavile stays or not. Being able to setup Spikes on everything while also being immune to Spikes and only neutral to Rocks gives this Pokemon too much control over the hazard metagame while bolstering its partners like Weavile, hence why it should be A+, if not S-Rank. Weavile is only as strong as it is because of a Pokemon like Skarmory to support it.

-> B+ Rank

Skarmory is an amazing partner for Gastrodon - two form a great hazard stacking core and have powerful defensive synergy. Really helps patch up some of the defensive issues it had otherwise. Very little else to say on the matter. I'd also say Clodsire chould be in a similar rank for similar reasons, esp since its also immune to Toxic and not vulnerable to random Grass coverage like Thundy-T GKnot as much.

 

[Gross Sweep]

Thought I'd share a few opinions before the next vote slate based off my mid ladder experiences.

As much of a fan that I am of the Future Sight + Pivot move team model, I have to say this thing has come across as fairly lackluster in my experiences. Plenty of common Pokémon pressure Slowking and don't allow for 2 turns to get the combination off, and it's facing a lot of competition for the bulky water role on teams (though plenty of teams can fit two right now). Even with the benefits of helping against the Water/Fighting types you frequently find on offensive teams I still think a drop would be appropriate for Slowking. Would Drop.

I am a huge fan of the washing machine. A ground immunity (minus Mold Breaker Exca/Haxorus), and a flying resist is a really nice combination. Has the ability to spread status, and helps form potent VoltTurn cores in the current metagame. Rotom-W also just has a knack for eating that one hit you need it to, and getting off a burn or hitting a strong attack. Also has some flexibility with Trick sets that can be annoying when met, as they're often still run fairly bulky and function the same after a Trick. Would be on board with this getting a rise. Would Raise.

Sneakily good speed tier, strong setup move, and provides teams with both a Ground and Electric immunity. I think this Pokémon is going to be extremely strong/influential in the next few months. I can understand if it's a bit to early for a rise without many great results yet, but I think this thing is great. Would Raise.

Really solid mon on hyper offensive teams. With Weavile in the metagame having something that resists both of its stabs and doesn't greatly fear Low Kick is extremely nice. Taunt sets also help in the stall matchup which can be a little tricky for some hyper offensive teams. Also has a bulkier Rapid Spin set that while a bit niche can be beneficial with the correct team. Would Raise.

I started really getting into UU after Zapdos left the tier. With that in mind I have not seen a metagame where Rhyperior is strong. Every time I have seen this thing it usually gets rocks, gets off one or two strong hits and dies. I can still imagine a few scenarios where this thing is helpful, but a lack of recovery really makes it hard to make this thing last. Especially when it's not outrageously bulky to take on Hyper Offense, and has to contend with Regenerator cores that don't have a ton of trouble outlasting it. Would drop.

I try my best to not get to caught up in some of the lower rankings as I have found the difference between a B- and B Pokémon is a bit inconsequential, and a bit more subjective. With that in mind I am going to look at these ranks with a bit more of a blanket perspective.

When I look at the viability ranking the biggest drop off in ranks in my eyes is the difference between B+ and B. With B rank being filled with mons that are only useable on certain more rigged structures like Hyper Offense, or the type of mons that are really only good on very specific teams that used the mon as a focal point. These three have enough power and splashability that I would give them the bump. left to right is who I'd recommend the most. Gastrodon is a nice Spiker/Rocker and has access to recovery. Ogerpon is a Pokemon with a solid Tera ability, decent coverage options, and Encore is a cool filler move. Shocks is a nice more offensive rocker and not much can take on its dual STABs, and most of those fear Tera Ice (Hydrapple and Latios). Would Raise.

Keldeo has enjoyed the shifts from what I can tell, and is doing rather well on Hyper offense as well as Bulky Offense. Having a Pokemon that can switch into some of the tiers Dark Types like Weavile once or twice throughout a game is very nice for Offensive teams, and with the pressure of a super effective priority + a generally strong dual stab option that can hit on both the physical and special side is really cool and can put opponents on the back foot fairly quickly. I honestly wouldn't be mad at seeing Keldeo make a jump to B+. The other two are high performing members for Hyper Offensive teams, and lining up along Teapot seems a bit more appropriate for them in my opinion. Would Raise.

 

[cheru]

to B+
I know this is kinda wild for me to say as a pex hater the entire time it has dropped, but now that Zapdos has left, it has pretty good matchups that it can take advantage of. It’s very good into non-Tera Electric Quaquaval and Keldeo. It has a far better matchup into AV Torn, and likes Scarf Okidogi becoming more popular as of late.

to A
The broken croc strikes again. It’s been having great success in basically every tournament at the moment. It’s able to stifle Weavile very well after Tera, takes most neutral hits well enough, and just does dirge things well.

to A-
Zapdos was the main thing holding Quavo back, and now it’s truly shining once again. It’s always super tricky for it to be stopped, since it is able to find an entry point pretty nicely against Weavile, while also getting the jump on basically everything at +1 besides Tera Ogerpon, Sand Rush Excadrill, and the very rare Unburdon Hawlucha. Both Tera Steel for defensive purposes and Tera Electric help it out in different ways. The final moveslot is where it can get super dangerous. Triple Axel destroys Latios, Clodsire, and Sinistcha, Tera Blast Electric smashes Slowking, Toxapex, and Azumarill, Taunt is able to shut down the aforementioned Toxapex and Skeledirge.

 

[Monky25]

Like said in a prior post, we’ve decided to run a VR update after analyzing meta trends and developments over these last three weeks, and now it is complete! Below are the changes made for this update. I don’t feel like writing the reasoning for each change so I’m opening the thread up for 48 hours to ask questions; after that, the thread will be open for nominations again. Be mindful of the current Weavile suspect test when making your future nominations, and just as a reminder that Pokémon who are UR require replays to be nominated on the VR. Please follow the same rules as usual, and we hope you enjoy this update!

New Additions
to A+
to A
to B+
to B+
to C

Rises
from A to A+
from A- to A
from B+ to A-
from B to B+
from B to B+
from B- to B
from B- to B
from B- to B
from B- to B
from C to B-
from C to B-
from UR to B
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C

Drops
from S to S-
from A to A-
from A to A-
from B+ to B
from B+ to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B- to C
from B- to C
from C to UR
from C to UR

 

[bumboclaat]

Woo VR update time is the best time. Was wondering if any of the UR -> C ranks was anything beyond these mons being a part of a single good team? If there are any you think are neat and want to elaborate on Im always down to learn a bit more about the metagame. Also was wondering more specifically about Mence, Beli, and Gastro

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C

Curious about all these shifts... 90% of them feel like they had 0 tour use to back them up esp ones like palo, golurk, and zapdos-g

from C to UR
from C to UR

Also this... ive been seeing a lot of people going for reqs with a grim screens team, and cycliczar stall isnt dead in the water and was smth tree used back then i think

 

[haunted paper]

zapdos-g

Beli

There's been a lot talk about these 2 mons, mainly saw it the chatroom on showdown.

Zapdos-G really appreciates Zapdos leaving, as it could handle both STABs very easily while risking paralysis. It's a solid scarfer that has great damage output to back up the speed. Not only that, but it can be decent at late game clean up, depending on what's left. Not weak to first impression, resists sucker punch, and doesn't insta-die to ice shard if at full with no CC drops. Not much (if at all) can handle both STABs, so there are 50/50s mix-ups that tend to be in Zap-G's favor. Usually used as speed control on balance or fat teams.

Belibolt checked some of what Zapdos checked, but was unranked because Zapdos was the superior mon by a landslide. Now that Zap is gone, Beli's niches have gone up in viability. It has a solid static ability for physical attackers (like Zap) and recovery. Its capable of checking Scizor, Weavile (to an extent), and Cobalion. Belibolt is also a fantastic tera abuser that can help broaden what it can check and handle. Usually found on voltturn teams.

 

[Twilight]

Woo VR update time is the best time. Was wondering if any of the UR -> C ranks was anything beyond these mons being a part of a single good team? If there are any you think are neat and want to elaborate on Im always down to learn a bit more about the metagame. Also was wondering more specifically about Mence, Beli, and Gastro

I can comment on a few of them:

from UR to C - Has some defensive value but mostly due to Misty Terrain HO seeing a small uptick of usage from a few members
from UR to C - No Zapdos means it can click its STABs more often without as much punishment.
from UR to C - This thing just gets ranked every other slate. It's just hard to pivot into, wouldn't be surprised to see it UR again...
from UR to C - Trap Skarm and Sciz. Profit.
from UR to C - I was informed it does well into Okidogi + sets rocks and recovery etc. I didn't vote on it so someone else can chime in if there is more to say.

Mence appreciates Zapdos leaving and takes up the role of kinda replacing the slot. Ofc nothing can fully replace Zapdos but the role of a flying-type special attacker with a good defensive typing/ability opened up. DD sets are also technically better with Zapdos going and Skarm isn't a big issue as it has Temper Flame.

The slug just checks several mons like Greninja, Washer, Thundy, and Heatran well and has access to Spikes to wear down the opposing team. It is exploitable and naturally some of those Pokemon can carry Grass coverage to nail it but it's in an okay spot right now

I am not a huge believer in this Pokemon but Zapdos is gone and it is the only thing that genuinely punishes Tornadus-T so it just rises off that + losing competition.

Anything else someone else can probably chime in on as I have not used them enough.

from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C
from UR to C

Curious about all these shifts... 90% of them feel like they had 0 tour use to back them up esp ones like palo, golurk, and zapdos-g

from C to UR
from C to UR

Also this... ive been seeing a lot of people going for reqs with a grim screens team, and cycliczar stall isnt dead in the water and was smth tree used back then i think

Tours aren't the only means to justify ranking something. When community members nom something there is no expectation to have tour replays. Ladder replays would suffice too. Though ofc that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to be ranked. Cyclizar is more of a relic and is not really used on stall much now. Grimm is probably fine but overall Serperior just does the role a bit better while being a threat itself.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Tours aren't the only means to justify ranking something. When community members nom something there is no expectation to have tour replays. Ladder replays would suffice too. Though ofc that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to be ranked. Cyclizar is more of a relic and is not really used on stall much now. Grimm is probably fine but overall Serperior just does the role a bit better while being a threat itself.

Isn't tour usage the main metric to determine if smth is good or not? ladder for all i know has been deemed a bad way to tell if smth is good or not, and any ladder games can be chalked up to good luck, a bad opponent, or a bad team from them

I think all throughout SV UU lifespan, the uu ladder has been looked down upon as a way for a user to voice their nomination on a pokemon

 

[ThatOneApple]

from UR to C

Palossand essentially functions like a gligar for fatter teams. Checking Okigdogi and walling Coba while setting a hazard. The primary differences are that it can heal but lacks a way to pivot or Toxic things, meaning that it lasts longer but is much more passive, hence why it mostly fits on fat. Its a bit of a specific mon but it serves its purpose decently.

 

[ASKOV]

Since i was one of the people that supported a Golurk ranking might as well drop my two cents on it

It was already mentioned that it's a strong wallbreaker that is surprisingly annoying to switch into between its strong ass STABs + coverage for stuff like Zarude and Mandibuzz, but what is a bit underrated about is its ability to get free turns on some of the pokemon running around, Cobalion being the main one but also it's a fairly decent switch to Okidogi since BU sets tend to drop Knock Off and it can take advantage of choice locked CCs/Gunks, come on some Thundurus sets and monopress Skarms, while still having decent bulk to hard switch once or twice on more passive stuff like Clodsire

 

[Goombatower69]

The Manaphy rise is insane, is Zapdos leaving really all it needed to become that much better?

 

[dingbat]

The Manaphy rise is insane, is Zapdos leaving really all it needed to become that much better?

there were a couple of very recent high level tournament matches with it straight up 6-0ing opposing teams with tail glow 3 attacks, which more than proved that it's a threat that should be at least somewhat respected on the builder again

 

[Moutemoute]

The Manaphy rise is insane, is Zapdos leaving really all it needed to become that much better?

To add on what dingbat said, I would also say that common bulky cores are shredded by Manaphy after a single Tail Glow. They can struggle to put immediate pressure on Manaphy which also ease its setup. The fact that Manaphy can also run multiple great Tera (Poison, Fairy or Electric) adds to the previous points.

 

[Phillip Blevin]

from UR to C
What niche does golurk even have? It's too slow to be a good scarfer and the faster mons like gren and weav just out speed and kill
from UR to C
I have never seen this mon on ladder, did it rise up as a spin blocker that also threatens drill?

 

[Jonbot]

from UR to C
What niche does golurk even have? It's too slow to be a good scarfer and the faster mons like gren and weav just out speed and kill
from UR to C
I have never seen this mon on ladder, did it rise up as a spin blocker that also threatens drill?

Do you mean C to UR?

 

[seiuqq]

IRON JUGULIS STOCKS LETS GOOOOOO

 

[MonoCats]

Quaquaval rising is definitely fitting, and something I've thought about posting towards. I haven't done this in a month or so, but I found SD less effective because of the lack of initial speed. I ran Tera Water Life Orb Quaquaval as a wallbreaker capable putting serious holes into a lot of teams. If Tera was used, even defensive staples like bulky Zapdos couldn't switch into it without risking an extremely likely 2HKO from Aqua Step, and common defensive Teras don't resist water. Quaquaval can also run adamant and be fine for most matchups, since there's nothing relevant it outspeeds at +1 jolly that it doesn't at +1 adamant. A single Aqua Step with that much power behind it puts a lot of pressure on the opponent, and with it's coverage moves it can outspeed and OHKO the majority of the game at +1 attack/+1 speed.

As far as direct counterplay goes, some things you'd expect to counter that set just... Don't. Manaphy can't set up on it at all, and can't beat it even if it's already at +3 unless it's running Tera Electric (which has a low chance of OHKOing at base). Azumarill and Skarmory have a >50% chance of being 2HKOed by Close Combat on the switch, guaranteed with stealth rock, and both can nearly be OHKOed at +1. Latios is obliterated if it switches into Knock Off or Triple Axel, and is outsped at +1 speed unless it holds Scarf. Skarmory's Brave Bird does not OHKO, nor does a +6 Aqua Jet from Azumarill. Lokix does not OHKO even with Tera Bug and is easily OHKO'd back.

A hilarious comedy option (that I'm now tempted to come back and try tomorrow..) is to run just Aqua Step to get the +1 speed and chip damage, and Last Resort with Tera Normal. This can lure in and obliterate almost everything without a normal resistance even without a Moxie boost, and Rock/Steel types are not keen on switching into a Water/Fighting mon. At +1, even Toxapex has a chance of getting OHKOed, and UU lacks any mons that resist both Water and Normal.

Quaquaval is just a fantastic pressure mon right out of the box. It's just not direct offense either, as you can drop a coverage move and run something like Encore or Endeavor as a surprise, or even go bulky and run Counter. It has just enough bulk to take a plethora of hits from key enemies, and a lot of viable set options at it's disposal, which is very valuable in a metagame where most mons have predictable sets.

 

[Rabia]

played UU for awhile now, here's some rank changes that to me are v clear

-> lower
Very overrated in A+. It's an on paper threat more than anything if you reference the meta discussion from during its suspect test with not much in practice success to reference outside of the lead Focus Sash shenanigans it can pull on hyper offense. I've yet to find a good reason to use it over Lokix/Greninja/Hoopa-U on any other style because the metagame is very naturally hostile towards it as a result of needing to prep very hard for Dark-types on the whole. Probably wouldn't go below A rank for it, but I'm such a hater that I want to say A- or B+ XD!

-> lower
I have not wanted to use this Pokemon in quite some time because every team has at least one Dark-type you have to account for, and god forbid you face Dark spam. It's not the worst Pokemon to be forced into Terastallizing with because Regenerator + Scald = OP, but I don't find it to have the same floor as something like Skeledirge that can shut down entire teams/archetypes. Moveslots are also trickier than they used to be because ceding turns to Hydrapple is unpleasant.

-> lower
There's some theoretical case to be made that with Slowking and Toxapex being worse than they were in the past that Hisuian Arcanine could be better now, especially with Extreme Speed to vibe check the offenses running around rn. I've yet to see this materialize in any level of real success for the Pokemon. It's way too weak with the common Heavy-Duty Boots sets and frankly still too easy to pivot around if you opt for Choice Band (do not do this you will lose to Stealth Rock within 2 turns). Just a very unserious Pokemon that I think has BEEN unserious for some time now.

-> higher
Too consistent to not be in the S ranks somewhere. I don't really think S- makes sense anyhow because there is no world Excadrill isn't on the same level of Tornadus-T, but I digress. Lokix goes on literally any style and checks all the bullshit in the tier very well with First Impression + Sucker Punch, and naturally it benefits from the loss of Zapdos last month and the slight decrease in Cobalion prevalence. SD sets are vile too.

-> higher
It's not cool or hip to hate on Tinkaton anymore, certainly hasn't been for some time now. Thunder Wave / Encore / Foul Play all do well at preventing it from being this passive momentum sink that users itt have criticized it for being, and it's at least mildly less vulnerable to coverage from the Dark-types than its competition. A- is perfectly fine for it imo.

-> higher
I do not care how absurd Dark-types are right now; the stupid fat setup sets for Polteageist are infuriating to navigate against because it WILL sit in front of you fishing for Cursed Body procs and it WILL be rewarded with them. The matchup teapot is also made more annoying because yeah, some games you WILL run into Tera Blast Fighting/Fairy and you WILL lose your Dark-type in one turn. Yada yada "it can't be both sets at once!!!" I do not care bro preparing for each of them is a headache and B does not adequately communicate this thing's threat level.

-> higher
leave me alone bros this is a pocket pick that I have enjoyed since it dropped and I will NOT stand for the slander that's been levied at it! Sticky Web is pretty legit rn as shown through Manaphy's success in SCL (not always on webs teams but several uses) and idt C rank is fair for the best setter. Like yeah the archetype will always struggle to become hard meta because Heavy-Duty Boots is spammed a lot to compensate for Excadrill being the only real hazard remover atm for most styles, but typically you end up exploiting the Web-immune Pokemon ie Lokix/Tornadus-T/Latios just fine on these styles. B- is preferable imo.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> higher
Too consistent to not be in the S ranks somewhere. I don't really think S- makes sense anyhow because there is no world Excadrill isn't on the same level of Tornadus-T, but I digress. Lokix goes on literally any style and checks all the bullshit in the tier very well with First Impression + Sucker Punch, and naturally it benefits from the loss of Zapdos last month and the slight decrease in Cobalion prevalence. SD sets are vile too.

Disagree... flame body heatran, skarmory, quaquaval, mence replacing zap somewhat, dogi still being very good, coba is gonna pick up in usage afterwards the dogi ban and dogi is very annoying for it, pickpocket tink kinda shits on it... yes it does its job well but i would actually drop ti to A, it feels overated and smth people try to put in high regard

From playing ladder a crap ton during suspects + testing teams I have come to the conclusion that forcing progress with kix is much harder than before and slotting it into a team is annoying as well esp with all the anti lokix tools that HO puts into place

-> B+

I have played against Phillip Blevina a crap ton... and also used gard on https://pokepast.es/d0e948ebabb6adcd this team. I think gard is pretty underated especially since while heatran can answer it, all it takes is a clear focus blast to the face or just chip from spikes, knock from other members, or use members like rotom-w to wall it out and deny it progress.

In non-heatran MU's it can spam moonblast quite freely. Less slowking and more rotom-w means that moonblast is a better click into the tier especially with the rise of more off drill, hydrapple picking up usage, skarmory also being a viable steel, tink often times dropping lefties for balloon, coba being a very top steel, and meta dropping off usage all benefit gard in some way shape and form

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2239303507-6cr3zhpb10zm66spqiezfdacc13go4bpw?p2 Gard clicks moonblast quite well and all it took was a good hit onto heatran. Phillip Blevina also played around my 2 steels quite well and even then would have a good end game sweep with gard especially since drill does not like taking repeated moonblasts and skarm will likely burn roost pp to quickly

I have more replays, not gonna switch accounts rn tho...

-> B

This mon is passive asf... loses hard to dogi, kinda gets farmed by the rise of taunt sets, farmed by t axel SD quaq anyway, rotom-w wisps it anyway, exca threatens the crap out of it while it needs to get several turns right compared to skarm, chesnaught, sandy shocks, or mew (exclusive to HO but whatever) who can keep it up much easily

With a lot of hoopa, weavile, dogi, exca, ttar, latios, NP or specs hydrapple, and in general thudding into slowking quite well esp since it can just chilly out while a burnt clodsire does negative dmg to excadrill or any other poison immunity

-> C

Still... I have stated my reasons on it and its still the same, no usage what so ever, it had one usage by pak I think and all it did was dmg dirge and get burnt in return .... I would rather use SD quaq in almost any scenario esp since azu is quite vulnurable to knock, hazards, having to win more 50/50's than it would like, and denying aqua jet is quite easy and.

to C

1st of all azu has no usage in UUBD and UU homefield to my knowledge, it lacks almost any usage and is often passed by to my knowledge by many players, this is smth ive seen when building, laddering, and watching tours

(OUTDATED but still prob smth to know) Usage from week 6 onwards alongside the replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-789407
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-789507
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-789617
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786715
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-787119
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-787283
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-787342
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-787535
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-788383
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-788614
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785860
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785991?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786011
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786231
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786306
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786392
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786402
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-786495
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-784785
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-784806
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-784930
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-784964
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785006
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785047
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785086
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785094
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785208
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785287
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-785389

+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tornadus-Therian | 23 | 39.66% | 39.13% |
| 2 | Excadrill | 22 | 37.93% | 45.45% |
| 3 | Cobalion | 19 | 32.76% | 57.89% |
| 4 | Okidogi | 18 | 31.03% | 61.11% |
| 5 | Zapdos | 16 | 27.59% | 75.00% |
| 6 | Hoopa-Unbound | 14 | 24.14% | 35.71% |
| 7 | Lokix | 14 | 24.14% | 42.86% |
| 8 | Hydrapple | 13 | 22.41% | 38.46% |
| 9 | Scizor | 12 | 20.69% | 33.33% |
| 10 | Slowking | 10 | 17.24% | 20.00% |
| 11 | Greninja | 8 | 13.79% | 50.00% |
| 12 | Latios | 8 | 13.79% | 75.00% |
| 13 | Skeledirge | 8 | 13.79% | 25.00% |
| 14 | Rhyperior | 8 | 13.79% | 50.00% |
| 15 | Ogerpon-Cornerstone | 7 | 12.07% | 28.57% |
| 16 | Toxapex | 6 | 10.34% | 83.33% |
| 17 | Serperior | 6 | 10.34% | 33.33% |
| 18 | Tinkaton | 6 | 10.34% | 50.00% |
| 19 | Thundurus-Therian | 5 | 8.62% | 0.00% |
| 20 | Hydreigon | 5 | 8.62% | 20.00% |
| 21 | Zarude | 5 | 8.62% | 80.00% |
| 22 | Milotic | 5 | 8.62% | 60.00% |
| 23 | Sandy Shocks | 5 | 8.62% | 60.00% |
| 24 | Pecharunt | 5 | 8.62% | 60.00% |
| 25 | Mamoswine | 4 | 6.90% | 75.00% |
| 26 | Quaquaval | 4 | 6.90% | 25.00% |
| 27 | Rotom-Wash | 4 | 6.90% | 75.00% |
| 28 | Metagross | 4 | 6.90% | 25.00% |
| 29 | Gardevoir | 3 | 5.17% | 100.00% |
| 30 | Gligar | 3 | 5.17% | 66.67% |
| 31 | Arcanine-Hisui | 3 | 5.17% | 66.67% |
| 32 | Enamorus-Therian | 3 | 5.17% | 66.67% |
| 33 | Mew | 3 | 5.17% | 0.00% |
| 34 | Gastrodon | 3 | 5.17% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Polteageist | 3 | 5.17% | 0.00% |
| 36 | Keldeo-Resolute | 3 | 5.17% | 33.33% |
| 37 | Donphan | 3 | 5.17% | 100.00% |
| 38 | Gastrodon-East | 2 | 3.45% | 100.00% |
| 39 | Ogerpon | 2 | 3.45% | 50.00% |
| 40 | Mimikyu | 2 | 3.45% | 0.00% |
| 41 | Mandibuzz | 2 | 3.45% | 100.00% |
| 42 | Ninetales-Alola | 2 | 3.45% | 0.00% |
| 43 | Comfey | 2 | 3.45% | 50.00% |
| 44 | Iron Thorns | 2 | 3.45% | 50.00% |
| 45 | Fezandipiti | 2 | 3.45% | 50.00% |
| 46 | Suicune | 2 | 3.45% | 100.00% |
| 47 | Empoleon | 2 | 3.45% | 100.00% |
| 48 | Hawlucha | 2 | 3.45% | 50.00% |
| 49 | Bellibolt | 2 | 3.45% | 100.00% |
| 50 | Tyranitar | 2 | 3.45% | 100.00% |
| 51 | Slowbro-Galar | 2 | 3.45% | 0.00% |
| 52 | Jirachi | 2 | 3.45% | 50.00% |
| 53 | Slither Wing | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 54 | Dugtrio-Alola | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 55 | Salamence | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 56 | Cyclizar | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 57 | Hippowdon | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 58 | Krookodile | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 59 | Lilligant-Hisui | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 60 | Ninetales | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 61 | Reuniclus | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 62 | Umbreon | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 63 | Cresselia | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 64 | Espeon | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Iron Jugulis | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 66 | Iron Leaves | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 67 | Pincurchin | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 68 | Basculegion-F | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 69 | Grimmsnarl | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 70 | Revavroom | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 71 | Chesnaught | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 72 | Sinistcha | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 73 | Haxorus | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 74 | Indeedee | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 75 | Drifblim | 1 | 1.72% | 0.00% |
| 76 | Forretress | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 77 | Chandelure | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 78 | Noivern | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |
| 79 | Zarude-Dada | 1 | 1.72% | 100.00% |

Of all mons to not get usage azu kinda sticks out... its a b tier pokemon with no usage to its name. But why do i think its bad?

1st its bulk is meh, without av it kinda takes shits kinda bad and even with sitrus or av then it gets into dmg problems, it kinda has to have some form of progress making and twilight spoke of CB. another issue is how prediction reliant it is, why use azu when hoopa, dogi, specs gren, latios, cornerstone, tera fairy gard are pretty nice breakers. It just feels like it sticks out like a sore thumb in the VR list

2nd is that even if it gets a turn right its vulnurable to hazards, which means even with a spike up or taking rocks dmg it means often times its gonna have to rely on aqua jet to force smth out or lose potentially to smth willing to stay in or having tera to bully it. Zarude can switch in on the more likely liquidation, or smth like slowking can switch in on play rough once and pivot to a mon, rotom-w can scout as well and volt switch or WoW, pecharunt can switch in, recover or hit it with a poison move, gastrodon has storm drain, hydrapple can prob live a play rough and switch out and regen it off... sure if you guess right you do a lot of dmg but why use such a mon that is high risk with a meh reward

3rd is other than CB it doesnt have much going for it.. even if it gets a belly drum going opponents can tera water or dragon to stop it (tera dragon on okidogi is pretty standard, tera steel hydrapple lives a play rough and forces either knock off (for pex) or liquidation (which you want for skarm esp ones who may be trying to brave bird u or have any form of dmg output without BD), while AV just lacks dmg and gets worn down quickly while being neutral to rocks, hates knock off, and is often to passive to do much in return

_____________________

Stuff i agree or disagree on...

-> lower (Disagree, slowking in A- is quite representing of its rank)
-> lower (Has not seen usage in a while, sure not against it but it could prob be because people may just not like it rather than its not performing well in battle)
-> lower (People do overprep for it, sure, but I still think its an A+ rank mon who is able to force a ton of progress and its problems are usually solvable or stuff like spin quaq or rotom-w)
-> higher (Nah, B+ is quite fitting, on the other hand people wanted to drop it until recently)
-> higher (Fuck this mon, yeah its super annoying on HO)
-> higher (Do people not say to just use araq?)

 

[Rabia]

Disagree... flame body heatran, skarmory, quaquaval, mence replacing zap somewhat, dogi still being very good, coba is gonna pick up in usage afterwards the dogi ban and dogi is very annoying for it, pickpocket tink kinda shits on it... yes it does its job well but i would actually drop ti to A, it feels overated and smth people try to put in high regard

From playing ladder a crap ton during suspects + testing teams I have come to the conclusion that forcing progress with kix is much harder than before and slotting it into a team is annoying as well esp with all the anti lokix tools that HO puts into place

flame body tran is the singular recent meta trend that is a problem at all imo. skarm is not dominant whatsoever, quavo doesn't even resist your moves and bulky is a meme outside of stall frankly, mence has not replaced zap whatsoever ???, dogi you knock and then it's just u-turned on forever (this is really easy to force for the most part). there's also just 0 way you said "dogi checks it but also coba will pick back up after dogi's ban" like this is very silly and inarguable against because it's entirely theoretical and assumes okidogi is the reason for coba downward usage to begin with (it's really not).

contrary to your personal experience, lokix hasn't dropped off at all in my view and is arguably better than it was in the past. very hard to make a cogent counterpoint to this quote because there's really not anything argued here beyond "here are pokemon that check it" which is very unconvincing because i can give you a myriad of checks to tornadus-t, and yet i am not arguing for it to drop solely based on "these pokemon beat it therefore it can't be s rank"

 

[Cheryl.]

HO hater that also plays HO has HO noms:

-> B+
Glad people are starting to wake up to how incredibly obnoxious Polteageist is to deal with. It is definitely a somewhat matchup fishy Pokemon, but it has enough set variations between the fat Strength Sap sets and faster Tera Blast Fighting sets to where its still able to do its job quite efficiently. And even though it is a fish, its a fish that I'd consider one of the more unhealthy elements of the tier because of how limited its counters really are. Strength Sap has made mons like AoA Lokix (seriously Boots Lokix is so bad into Teapot its scary...) into setup food, and I've seen techs like Will-O-Wisp > Stored Power to give Teapot further utility into counters like Tyranitar while also making most physical attackers into setup food for it. This obviously sacrifices its potential into Unaware mons like Clodsire and Tera'd Skeledirge, but its an interesting choice that I think has solid merit if you build around it correctly. Its hard to think of many solid counters to fat Strength Sap Teapot when you consider techs like Wisp and its Tera type, but you're still mostly fine with mons like Mandibuzz and Jungle Healing Zarude (although I've had my fair share of games where a single SpD drop from Shadow Ball makes Zarude's life sad). Buuut then you have to factor in the Tera Blast sets, most often seen on PsyTerrain (which most would consider bad but that PsyTerrain SashSpam team that has made rounds since the Weavile suspect is truly an obscene war crime), and things start getting pretty annoying. HO is taking over the meta as well, obviously, and Teapot provides crucial utility as a spinblocker to keep your hazards up with good play while also being one of the cheesiest and easiest sweepers available. Call it a fish but if I had it my way this joint would be in BL forever for a reason lmao

-> B+
Carro is a joy to use and I really think its coverage is threatening to so many builds right now that it is actually deserving of a rise. While its best use is on HO teams, I think there is potential for it to be used on other playstyles (and I've seen some Vroom BOs on ladder that kinda cook!) as it really isn't as paper-frail as most think. Steel/Poison with an Air Balloon intact has some great setup possibilities and naturally checks/threatens out annoying mons like Scizor, Ogerpon, literally every Clodsire if you have your Baloon, etc. and with Filter you can try and armor through attacks like Torn-T's Heat Wave to set up if needed too. And after a Shift Gear, Vroom is outspeeding pretty much everything and can threaten most mons in the tier with at least a 2HKO. Tera amplifies this car's threat level even further with Tera Fire allowing you to easily melt Skarmories and Tera Ground giving your High Horsepower a powerful kick to easily get through stuff like Toxapex and letting you get the upper hand on common Electrics that may try to impede your setup like Sandy Shocks and Thundy-T. While it may not always get the sweep on HOs, its fantastic at forcing the opponent's Tera to try and stop your sweep, as most teams genuinely have to do that to be safe into Car's coverage unless they have a rare defensive check to it. On other playstyles, it has to be played more as a dedicated wincon to get the most out of it, but I think with its solid typing pre-Tera and Filter, it not only has the room to be used but has genuine merit over other offensive Steels. I wouldn't particularly mind if this stays in B (I feel more strongly about Teapot rising) but I think there's merit for a discussion about Car too.

-> B-
Okay this one isnt really a HO-related nom, but I wanted to get it out there. Scarf Zapdos-G just hits all the right buttons for me right now. Its got a good enough speed tier for a Scarfer, enough power behind its STABs (which are insanely threatening in a post Kanto Zapdos world) to not be deadweight into fat mons (especially with potential Tera), and its able to U-turn vortex into its teammates. Its enough to differentiate it from its main Fighting competition in Scarf Dogi while also acting as a solid offensive check to it. It's only started to pick up in usage pretty recently but I think its positives are really great with how easily its able to clean up opposing offenses (NOTHING really takes on Fighting/Flying STABS from this on offense besides Pecharunt who could also use a rise maybe). Definitely give this mon a try, I see it rising up in prominence in the future.

Agreeing with:

to A: Although I consider Weavile part of the dirty trifecta that makes building standard teams near impossible rn, I also agree that the meta is so hyper-prepared for it that it ends up feeling inconsistent and doesn't perform on the same level as the A+ mons all of the time. When it does pop off, it is straight up broken and unhealthy, but because the tier has to hyper-prepare to not die to it and it can't run 6 moves at once, its not always gonna do that.

to A-: Always gonna be a good Tera user but I haven't seen a Slowking user not have to Tera this thing in order to not have it die instantly like ever. That defensive typing pre-Tera is too damning for it in a meta with so many Dark moves and strong U-turns flying around, and while it is a great user of Tera, it doesnt feel like a Garganacl situation where clicking the button outweighs the potential negatives of your other teammates not getting to use it. Slowking just feels limiting to use to me.

to C: Guy hits hard but for a mon with that defensive typing, it sure does lack in the actual checking department. Belly Drum sets don't wanna get Knocked, Choice Band (the one set that I can see justifying B-) also hates Knock... oh this is a Fairy that wants to avoid Knock okay very fraudulent. Would be better if it wasnt extremely slow too, like what is this mon doing outside of clicking Aqua Jet vs any team that isnt a King/Hydrapple BO or balance lol. CB might be that guy though, maybe