Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (April Shifts #403)

AOA Torn-I has been the standard, but Metallica pulled out an NP torn which broke Feen's team open in the midgame, letting him win much easier later on.
To expand on Tornadus, I'm starting to realize that it takes a lot of the niche that NP Thundurus had, perhaps even better. It has better damage, the same speed tier and perhaps even better coverage. While Thundurus had to use multiple coverage moves, Tornadus can get it done with just focus blast. +2 focus blast does over 75% minimum to max spdef Goodra and it just so happens that our neutral Spdef wall (umbreon) is weak to fighting as well. Only needing two attacks means that you can either be boring and use heat wave or dark pulse, or you can be cool and run a utility move. I have been ruined by NP+substitute on ladder a few times because it just trades with 1.5 mons minimum if you switch out as it clicks sub, and sub also works well for prankster shenanigans. If they try to revenge kill with a scarf gapdos, if you click sub then you have traded 25% hp for information, and can now either tera steel to resist their brave bird, switch out or stay in because you see they clicked u-turn like a fool. Taunt is another option that can just break some walls even if they are able to 1v1 you. An umbreon at 40% might as well be dead. And then there are all the other annoying filler options that make the retched genies so annoying. Knock off and u-turn allow you to weaken something or keep up momentum early on and then come back later to sweep, and tailwind has the chance to do something funny. Of course the big drawback is that your most accurate move is 80%, not ideal.

If Tornadus really is the future, I'm looking forward to someone bringing the ultimate torn wall and winning an RUPL game. Make someone forfeit when they see bleakwind storm do 0 damage.
:sv/brambleghast:
 
WOOOO, USAGE STATS TIME.

:pmd/mew: Okay, we actually got something, because if we didn't, I wouldn't be making this post. Mew is a classic case of jack of all trades, master of none. Main sets are going to be NP mew, spike stack mew and hazard lead mew. None of these sets will be amazing, but another option in the tier will be very nice.

:pmd/feraligatr: #youtuber_gets_bad_mon_to_rise. Okay, feraligatr isn't that horrible, but it rising to RU isn't on my bingo card. Main issue with it is that gyarados is just better. Moxie allows gyarados to snowball better, its defensive utility is better with its typing and good special defense, and while feraligatr has higher power, power isn't everything.

:pmd/gyarados: Speaking of gyarados, yeah, this is a good ass mon. Resto chesto can setup on a lot of defensive pokes really easily, while 3A is still deadly. Just a good allround HO mon.

:pmd/oricorio pom pom: Pom pom is one of those 'bitch mons', where its not broken, but oh fucking boy, it will make you tear your hair out facing it. It has two sets, the dual stab set which uses tera ground or fighting to make revelation dance hit mons such as goodra and registeel, while taunt sets made defensive teams living hell.

:pmd/registeel: Feli would be proud rn. Registeel has shown itself to be one of the best defensive steels in the tier, with ID+BP being an insane wincon while still being able to get up rocks or paralysis something with thunder wave.

Top 10 usage stats (I ain't giving reasonings, its 2 am for me)

:zapdos galar:
:cyclizar:
:bisharp:
:weezing galar:
:volcanion:
:goodra hisui:
:salamence:
:jirachi:
:slowbro:
:armarouge:
 
WOOOO, USAGE STATS TIME.

:pmd/mew: Okay, we actually got something, because if we didn't, I wouldn't be making this post. Mew is a classic case of jack of all trades, master of none. Main sets are going to be NP mew, spike stack mew and hazard lead mew. None of these sets will be amazing, but another option in the tier will be very nice.

:pmd/feraligatr: #youtuber_gets_bad_mon_to_rise. Okay, feraligatr isn't that horrible, but it rising to RU isn't on my bingo card. Main issue with it is that gyarados is just better. Moxie allows gyarados to snowball better, its defensive utility is better with its typing and good special defense, and while feraligatr has higher power, power isn't everything.

:pmd/gyarados: Speaking of gyarados, yeah, this is a good ass mon. Resto chesto can setup on a lot of defensive pokes really easily, while 3A is still deadly. Just a good allround HO mon.

:pmd/oricorio pom pom: Pom pom is one of those 'bitch mons', where its not broken, but oh fucking boy, it will make you tear your hair out facing it. It has two sets, the dual stab set which uses tera ground or fighting to make revelation dance hit mons such as goodra and registeel, while taunt sets made defensive teams living hell.

:pmd/registeel: Feli would be proud rn. Registeel has shown itself to be one of the best defensive steels in the tier, with ID+BP being an insane wincon while still being able to get up rocks or paralysis something with thunder wave.

Top 10 usage stats (I ain't giving reasonings, its 2 am for me)

:zapdos galar:
:cyclizar:
:bisharp:
:weezing galar:
:volcanion:
:goodra hisui:
:salamence:
:jirachi:
:slowbro:
:armarouge:
sniped me


Anyways, April shifts are out:

+ :mew:

- nothing!

The tier doesn't really change much other than having Mew back, which is always a welcome. At the moment we are suspect testing Zoroark-Hisui and would like to see how the tier develops onwards.
 
Last edited:
Post H-Zoro ban, we still have stuff to talk about for both tiering, and winners/losers of the ban. So let's go in reverse, with the winners and losers.


Winners
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png

Mimikyu and Gengar both like seeing the Ghost type competition slim, and their ability to actually click ghost moves is less risky. Mimikyu especially since it couldn't sneak H-Zoro to break games open. Krook appreciates its burden of being a dogshit ghost resist lessened because lord knows it can't switchin on a singular fucking ghost not named Golurk in this tier. Luke likes its espeed spam gameplan being a bit easier to pull off, and Infernape just likes seeing the tier slow down a little bit with H-Zoro gone from the picture. Frankly, not a ton changed in the actual builder but the ability to play the video game got alot easier.

Losers
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png

The War Crime Trio kicks off the losers, as H-Zoro Gap Bish was one of the dumbest fucking cores I've ever seen in an RU tier, while Volcanion Mamo disguise memes were also disgusting. Though unlike the others, Mamoswine isn't good :totodiLUL:
Cyclizar sees less reason to be forced onto some teams, though honestly its not that much of a loser here since Cyclizar's entire thing is soft check a ton but actually beat next to nothing, this just eased its strain a bit. Though it does get forced in less.

Now that that part is out of the way, lets talk tiering. Odds are, after Week 7 is done of RUPL we gonna get a survey. As for who should be on it? Let's get their names on the board.

Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png

Most of these are self-explanatory. Volcanion is a piece of shit and by leaps and bounds the dumbest mon in the tier. If this thing wants to beat something, it simply will. No discussions, it'll beat what it wants to. It can't beat everything at once, but it gets absurdly close with the Tera fairy taunt set. The uptick of Gastrodons hurt it, but honestly tera fairy beats that shit too so. Cyclizar and Goodra get body pressed, Slowbro gets taunted, Noivern and Mence get Tera blasted (same w Bike), Volcanion earth powers itself you get the picture. The strain it forces is honestly ridiculous to deal with, and it basically takes atleast 1 kill in most games its in, if not more. The item customization its been seeing lately also makes it annoying, with stuff like Custap being something to worry about. And don't get me started on healing wish top-ups for this thing..

Bisharp has been getting called broken for over a damn year and its still here, but I'd still pick Volcanion first before it. Mon is dumb as hell though. Armarouge too, on a lesser extent. Personally I find armarouge to be fine, but I also think it probably belongs on every survey because of how it is and performs. PomPom is just dumb, and I know absolutely nobody will come to its defense. Lame ass mon who can just auto-win some games but beyond that its just annoying, not much more than that. Suicune & Gyara are mostly padding, but they do receive a decent bit of complaints about how they run games over on occasion with very little resistance. Frankly, low priority picks but I think they probably can go on there without much fuss.
 
volcreal.png

Gonna add that I absolutely agree with LBN's takes on the meta. It's definitely better post-Horoark but Volcanion has to go. It's one big "guess my coverage" mon, and it's a massive pain to build against, with most of its "checks" getting assblasted one way or another. One of the biggest anti-ban arguements I see is that Gastrodon stops it damn well; while it's a good check, Gastrodon suffers from being passive and exploitable and it struggles against Tera (Fairy) and Taunt anyway. Forcing every non-offense team into using one mon is also rather unhealthy and stifles development; I believe a similar situation was observed with Dracovish and Seismitoad back in SS OU.

:pmd/armarouge:
I think Armarouge is a somewhat bigger concern than Bisharp so I'll talk about it first. Armarouge is slightly more linear than Volcanion but still has many of the same issues; it's nigh-impossible to defensively check and if you incorrectly guess what it's running (Weakness Policy vs. Calm Mind, coverage, etc.) you're as good as dead. It has more defensive counterplay than Volcanion, but not by much.

Worried.png

Bisharp is also a concern but not as high priority; I think it brings more positives to the tier than Volcanion or Armarouge (Sticky Web deterrent, priority + cleaner for a variety of structures), but on the other hand it does make hazard removal more difficult thanks to Defiant, which given the tier's already-shoddy removal options puts it on my shitlist.

suicunei.png

Ok so I'm appending this post because my opinion on Suicune has changed since I wrote this; this mon is just plain unfun to fight. Pretty much every opposing CM user is forced to run Psyshock to beat it and its amazing natural bulk means that it can find setup opportunities very easily. While it can in theory be crippled by Knock Off, most knock users don't want to come in on it because of Scald's burn chance, and even then Rest sets are gaining steam. I'd say look at this after Volcanion leaves the tier, because Suicune's one of the scant few mons that can actually take it on.

oricoriod.png
gyaradoss.png

I don't have a whole lot to say about these guys so I'll keep it brief. Oricorio barely brings anything good to the tier apart from being a flimsy Gapdos check; between its variable coverage, Tera + Revelation Dance mechanics, and Quiver Dance being the dumbest boosting move known to man, it's an annoying cheese mon that, while not as defensively unmanageable as the two Fire-types above, won't be missed if it's banned. With Air Slash flinches it's basically Dollar General Yanmega. Gyarados is less of a concern atm; it's basically Tera reliant DD Salamence, but could be problematic in the future so maybe keep an eye on it
 
Last edited:
Week 6 usage stats are live, so now lets delve into some of the developments that've taken place since my last talk bout this (I've been busy, sick and lazy to bother doing it each week like i intended so..)

Normal.png

Bulky tera normal facade salamences have been seeing some use, able to just delete G-Weez as counterplay and greed for lefties over something like lum or a forced tera fire to deal with G-Weezing. It's nice because of how normal/ground is already amazing offensively for covering most stuff similar to ground/flying, but takes care of one of Bulky DD Salamence's main flaws, status and helmets. I wouldn't say its staple territory just yet, but it has been seeing a good amount of use.

Normal.png

Now, QD Taunt pompom is not a new trend. What IS a new trend is people using relevation dance over air slash and just using tera flying for power and added flexibility. Now, I speak for ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE when I say the last fucking thing this mon needed was more fucking strategic depth. QD Taunt was fine because I could send in my steel and it'd take ten years to fucking kill it. This ruins that quite handedly, and I'm not gonna say I think this set should get this thing quickbanned before open... but I think this shit should get quickbanned before open. Genuinely a cancer-sore on the tier at this stage that nobody actually defends. You can definitely make the argument to quickban it, so at the very least consider the route of QB pompom into survey. If there is a singular pompom defender on this playerbase please make yourself known I'd love to encounter an endangered species with my own eyes.

Normal.png

After work every day I usually walk 30 minutes to get home. Last shift when it was raining i stepped in some mud, shrugged and moved on with my day. And that singular interaction had more impact than terrakion does this RUPL. And it's not surprising to see honestly. H-Zoro Gapdos cores were probably the hardest for Terrak to deal with; because it didn't and it couldn't. And even when they didnt come, you have slowbro's, hippowdons, gligar's and HO teams it also can't really deal with; and that's not listing Weezing either. For comparisons sake, Kleavor, Azelf, and Forretress. For applications these 3 are, to me quite comfortably the worst 3 mons in RU. And these have 4, 4 and 6 uses respectively. Don't ask me why, but they do. Forretress atleast has real utility don't ask me what the hell the other bums are getting used for. This dogshit A- on the VR LMFAOOOO

Normal.png
Normal.png

Now these are two pokemon who have zero business getting only 1 use each. They are being surrounded by Venusaur, Cinccino, Alcremie Rainbow Swirl like some real dogshit. And the fact these two only have 1 use can only be described as hateful. Golurk is still solid; maybe a little worse than its prime but H-Zoro leaving should invite more uses of it. It's good guys cmon. Palossand is great on spikes fat teams, but ngl I see more why it doesnt get used as much. G-Weez removal has been peak for awhile and its not blocking that shit. And Taunt volcanion is a hard middle finger to any semblance of bulky styles that it becomes difficult to use. Not bad, and definitely better than the 1 use its had, but like.. I get it.

Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png
Normal.png

Here we shoutout the pokemon with 60% winrate or higher and over 10 uses. Gastrodon takes the highest winrate not only among over 10 uses, but in the top 10 and among the listed as well with a staggering 69%. Entei has a clean even 60% winrate, Cresselia and gyarados follow up with roughly 61-63%, Gengar holds 66% and Mienshao holds 63%. All of these pokemon.. except shao, are very solid pokemon who usually don't get as much love as they probably should. Ngl idk how mienshao has more uses than H-Lilligant like the mon isn't bad but like... LOL?
 
I am here to advocate on the behalf of a mon very near and dear to my heart which I believe deserves a good solid look in the current meta, who has improved drastically in usability now that Horoark is dead. LBN views this mon as simply not the best but I see potential... and a very valuable niche, an anti-meta pick in a way.

:pmd/bellibolt: :sv/bellibolt: :pmd/bellibolt:
Bellibolt!

The famed Bellibolt of RU fame has fallen outta use in recent years, but unlike other mons of its tier and calibur it's still quite good, and packs some solid defensive benefits. First off is that defensively, Bellibolt just has solid stats. 109 HP, 91 Def, and 83 SpD help it live a boatload of hits, and paired with Slack Off makes defeating it a daunting task for wallbreakers to take down. But I'll cut to the chase and get into the niche that I believe Bellibolt fits into in the current metagame.

I believe that Bellibolt is the single best Pokemon on fat for taking on Offense teams. Specifically Gapdos Volc Mamo offense. Hyper Offense it's fine into but that's irrelevant.

I'll also preface that you shouldn't be running volt switch for this purpose, run Parabolic Charge so you can heal up and stay topped off into fools or Discharge so you can fish for paras and do better into special attackers or guys trying to set up on ya. I personally prefer Parabolic Charge cause it lets you not only stay healthy vs. Gapdos, but more importantly lets you stay healthy vs. Taunt Volcanion due to having healing that's not tied to a status move.

:pmd/bellibolt:
Additionally, you have flexibility with the ability, Static lets you better punish regular Gapdos sets w/ scarf, and if you're worried about Protective Pads on gapdos, then you can go for Electromorphosis, which lets Parabolic Charge hit way harder, and lets you answer back easily. Otherwise you can run Static to better punish other various contact gamers like Mienshao, Bisharp, Maushold, etc etc. It also lets you become the world's best Jirachi switch in, chipping w/ rocky helmet AND threatening a Static para.
Overall comes down to how scared you are of pads and if you worry about how well the rest of your team can follow up on the para. TLDR, Electromorphosis helps Bellibolt be self-sufficient, Static helps it be a team player.

:pmd/volcanion: :pmd/mamoswine:
But otherwise you may wonder how you beat Volc and Mamo? It's honestly just as easy as Tera Water and win.
I know I know! The thought of "burning tera" is a terrifying one, especially in the RU metagame and for good reason. You want an out, you sometimes want offensive power, you want to be able to eek out a free turn in the endgame. But Bellibolt being able to simply take on 3 mons at once for multiple turns at a time is like amazing value, and it's not like it opens up a major weakness or anything, you just become a bulky water.
And, more importantly, you can pull the trigger at any time during the match. Need to eek out a win vs. Gapdos Mamo endgame? Bellibolt wins. Need to lessen the strain on your defensive walls? Take out their Mamo and get to work. Additionally, Tera Water Muddy Water from Bellibolt does 83% minimum so some chip lets you kill it easily, AKA SR chip if they're CB.
0 SpA Tera Water Bellibolt Muddy Water vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 300-354 (83.1 - 98%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So your Mamo MU is fine if you Tera, baring ungodly bad luck from Icicle Crash flinches. And, suprisingly, your Volc MU is also solved!
252+ SpA Volcanion Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Water Bellibolt: 126-149 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- 23.6% chance to 3HKO
Just look at this.
Scariest wallbreaker in the tier and 76.4% of the time you get 4HKO'd.

However, what sets Bellibolt from other bulky waters that put up more impressive results is that Bellibolt can actually answer back with something. Milotic, Vapo, Suicune, Empoleon, all scratch and slightly annoy Volc, and all kinda get shut down either by Earth Power or Taunt or by merit of just wasting PP. None of them can actually directly damage and threaten Volcanion, unlike Bellibolt who has it's Electric STAB of choice OR Toxic if you know they're not Taunt and want to midground in case they switch to a ground.

And of course you have a defensive piece that at least gets rocky helmet chip into Gapdos, and at most either murders it with Electromorphosis Parabolic Charge or gets a Static Para. But you know what Bellibolt in base form also does?

RESIST BRAVE BIRD

:pmd/zapdos-galar:
Even when Tera'd you don't take like an insane amount from Gapdos, it's enough to raise an eyebrow, but it's not crazy damage, and you can usually Slack Off or Parabolic Charge. Latter if they're Protective Pads.
252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Tera Water Bellibolt: 148-175 (35 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So after I've put this all out, you can surely see what I mean about Bellibolt right? This is a physical wall that can handle Gapdos, Kill Mamoswine, and NOT DIE TO VOLCANION AND LIKE ACTUALLY BEAT IT. You have healing that's not tied to a status move, an actual status move that heals you, Toxic so you can screw over bulkier mons, and if you really need it you can gamble on Muddy Water and it's 30% chance to potentially let you win a last mon situtation.
And this isn't like doing any assumptions, these aren't cherry picked situations or anything, like Bellibolt can just do all of this.

Obviously though, there are more than 3 mons on these Offense teams. But that's where every other Pokemon on YOUR team comes in. If they have a Bisharp, then you should probably have answers for that, like the big idea here is that you don't want to have Bellibolt handle absolutely EVERYTHING on the opposing team. Bellibolt can handle the big classic brainless offensive 3, but it'll probably perish in the act, so being able to handle problem matchups, handle Jirachi clicking body slam, handle setup sweepers like Oricorio clicking taunt and QD, that's up to the rest of your team. But Bellibolt, good ole Bellibolt, is perfectly capable of taking on the 3 goobers for the rest of your team in a way that role compresses BIG TIME.

So give Bellibolt a shot! It's a very versatile mon that honestly can fit onto more than just fat, and is capable of adapting to what your team's specific needs, so if you want an answer to Gapdos, Mamoswine, and Volcanion in one silly little tera water, Bellibolt is your guy!

Have a great day y'all!

Late addendum but please ban oricorio.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top