Resource SV PU Viability Rankings - Pre DLC 1 Edition

[third bonnie]

i'm gonna bounce off of gum for these even though i'm not really anywhere near as good as gum lol

(a -> a+)
not much really changed for this thing, it's just our best defensive ground by miles and has proved to be a very solid options on a lot of different teams. like the post above mine says, it appreciates us finally having a splashable pokemon with knock to make its spikes more dangerous, while it's also a good enough check to said pokemon

i think a significant amount changed for it and for the better. Articuno rising means it no longer needs to carry stone edge and instead can focus on having both special stabs + ice beam, which is quite massive. Hell, you can even flex a slot with stuff like 2nd hazard, weather (if your team wants it) or even tera blast. I agree with the nom, but I wanted to add this note.

(a+ -> a)
it's still a great breaker and aqua jet is always nice to have but it just feels less scary. its speed tier has felt less good recently, and it feels particularly easy to punish with a well-timed tera. it kinda wants boots but also hates not being cb, a set that dies way too quickly in this current metagame. just feel like this thing has been trending downwards since last month, and it maybe should've dropped then

in current meta it may seem like it's bad, and the usage probably matches this, but IMO specs would tear a lot of the top tier, enough to keep it in a+ maybe. Perhaps it could even run mixed to not be dead vs Chansey? I'm very indifferent to it staying or dropping, but i believe that it can offer more than initially meets the eye.

frosttom and electrode are generally better electric-types, and raichu's speed tier isn't as good as it was before; speed typing with alolan dugtrio and being slower than alolan persian is pretty unfortunate. to add on to that, it also struggles vs whiscash unless it decides to tera - and at that point just use electrode.

there is no way that a volt switch sponge that can encore a lot of mons into giving it buffs (twave encore) is a b+. It's got enough utility to where a- is definitely still its rank. plenty of new things and new threats make it harder to use, but it's still a very reliable pivot with good coverage and solid locking capabilities.

gabite just struggles in a metagame where spikes are everywhere, one of the pokemon u'd expect a ground to check simply knocks it, and where we also have a way better ground. its typing still gives it some sort of niche, being able to phaze things like gogoat and be annoying with rough skin.

Gabite i think is a bit higher than Camerupt simply because its #1 enemy in cuno, who could tank its stone edge and oneshot with freeze dry, is gone. Very solid defensive mon with fine attack stat, phasing, hazard and potential to set up, also probably our best rest talker which isn't saying much but still, all that combined imo doesn't move it anywhere lower than B+, maybe even A-

honchkrow's strong prio is less relevant now, and it also struggles vs klawf and carbink

Agree with rank, disagree with the first part of the sentence. With scarfers like frostom and haunter and in a meta where knock is more common, thus making hazards actually chip into stuff, having a strong priority is actually quite valuable. it also helps that predicting trick isn't as terrifying for it. These factors + access to a pivot move and very nice stab is a good reason to put it in B, despite its shortcomings, but even it staying in B+ isn't out of the question. There'll just be games when it pops off and cannot be stopped.

EDIT: HDB Honch can one-shot Crabo with Brave Bird, that's honestly quite insane. I'd say it's worth considering B+ still

(new -> b)
not a huge fan but double dance sets can win at times, it requires a fair amount of support and is pretty useless defensively but the tradeoff can be worth it

it's a very fine mon for bulkier teams. It can be every kind of breaker and has set up sweeping options with a competent movepool. Yeah, it's not a mon for every team, by no means, but i'd say it's got enough going for it to be a sidegrade (or maybe even an upgrade) to indeedee, which would place it at B+

(b- -> c)

look i know quacky is overrated and overused on ladder for whatever reason, but c for it is imo too low. decently bulky water with anti-grass option, access to priority, hazard removal and deceptively okay attack stat to use these things make it unique and good enough to stick to b-, just has enough niches to warrant its place there.

(c -> ur)

C feels right for it, as it does have some niches in wishpassing in the face of special attackers and does it far better than dachs. it's not a gigantic niche, but it's also definitely not entirely outclassed. Can also annoy with lava plume and body slam if opponent didn't bring chansey w/ heal bell.

I agree enough with the rest to not really add anything there.

 

[Bella]

Long ass post time about the New stuff / old stuff that imo needs to be changed on the VR or talked about more.
UR -> B+
I mean like its still passive, loses to any sub sweeper ever, and really fucking wishes it had toxic and 16 Softboiled PP back but checking 95% of the Special attackers in the tier while not really getting 2hkod by alot of Physical attackers is kinda cute!

UR -> S-
This shit is borderline impossible to switch into safely if you dont have a skunk, chansey, or sliggoo. Set variety is scary too, with Trick Scarf, Sub NP, and LO all being things ive seen as of late.

UR -> S- / S
It feels very very necessary on every team now, more so than Missy or Carbink felt. The option to be a support mon with regen or a wincon with Anger Shell is cute too! Knock ofc is always great since honestly i consider Tuff A tier last meta with knock alone soooo... However, i dont think this is the most obvious mon for a suspect. imo thats still easily Haunter.

UR -> B+
Steel-type thats still passive but not as passive as its main competitor for the special wall in Chansey! Feels as awkward to fit into teams as last time though, but i see its place in the meta.

UR -> B
Yknow, its surprisingly pretty balanced! It feels good to punish the teams that dont expect it or prep for it well enough, but it feels too slow as a wincon to get going and wisphex sets are probably done better by like missy or something. its cute tho.

UR -> B-
I still dont know what the fuck this thing does lol, double dance just kinda seems cheeks for the support you need to give.

Ok on more stuff..
A -> A+
This thing is crazy. Its really bulky and can check a range of threats depending on its spread, good enough movepool for a spiker and the meta is extremely favorable to it rn, also the best ground that can take a hit.

A -> B+ / B?
I mean like it just does not seem good anymore. Webs are extremely unfavorable rn imo, and Quiver Dance just requires too much support for it and even at +1 it still feels kinda slow. Just dont see it getting justified rn

B- -> UR
holy FUCK is this thing a sneak. Lets look at some useage stats for this thing, shall we?

Quilladan use rates

ladder:
| 97 | Quilladin | 0.271% |
PUPL:
| 50 | Quilladin | 1 | 0.78% | 0.00% |
Swiss:
| 55 | Quilladin | 8 | 1.43% | 37.50% |

This thing is not a good spiker and it is not a good grass either. Its so passive and does not do anything better than the million other spikers and the grass types its competing with like Leafeon and Gogoat.

B -> C
it just doesnt seem that good anymore with new Knock users and new Ghost-types. Only in C because of Knock, if it didnt have that it would be UR.

B- -> C / UR
Honestly i consider this more of a "Holy fuck i really need a Basculin check" than a spinner. It just feels really difficult to safely spin on any team with the amount of good Ghost-type options / how many things are running tera ghost rn and its passive and is used often as setup fodder and its hard to slot Encore on it imo, just kinda... meh.

A- -> Keep A- or B+
Im still a believer in how nuclear this thing can be. While yes, DD sets require major support to pull off and it is still kinda lacking speed wise, the fact is... theres not rlly anything tanking more than 2 outrages / grav apples after a boost assuming the opposing Steel-type is weakened, or if the Steel-type is Sliggoo.
Some fun calcs:

The power of a +1 Flapple

+1 252 Atk Flapple Outrage vs. 216 HP / 220 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 195-231 (61.9 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Flapple Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Gogoat: 255-301 (56.6 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Flappple Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Spiritomb: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Flapple Grav Apple vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Klawf: 308-366 (89.7 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Flapple Grav Apple vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 188-224 (62 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Flaple Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Sliggoo-Hisui: 204-241 (63.9 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The point is, this thing is still incredible. Also yeah gum, Scarf sets are bad imo.

S / S- -> A+
I 100% agree with what gum said about these mons, they are still amazing but their presence is not as metagame warping as it was last meta.
Both are still very good, just misdreavus has competition and Gogoat really doesnt like Haunter coming back.

B+ -> B- / C
Does not feel nice anymore, its feels very passive and theres alot of competition for the Bulky Water-type role rn with Whiscash and Mare.

B- / C -> UR
All these mons are very not good imo.
Sneasel once again just suffers from better competition as a wallbreaker, and doesnt have good enough use rates to justify it on the VR anymore imo

Sneasel Use rates

Ladder:
| 66 | Sneasel | 0.969% |
Swiss:
| 58 | Sneasel | 7 | 1.25% | 42.86% |
PUPL:
lol

Calyrex is just bad and is outclassed by Wydeer if you want a Psychic-type double dancer.

Frogadier feels bad as Scarfer and even worse as a pivot, use rates once again dont justify it

Frogadier use rates

Ladder:
| 54 | Frogadier | 1.726% |
Swiss:
| 58 | Frogadier | 7 | 1.25% | 71.43% |
PUPL:
lol

Stonjourner is outclassed by Carbink on anything it wants to do

Wugtrio is a meme and the ability to outspeed Fire-types that Basculin or Golduck cant is cute but not enough to rlly justify it

Carkol is a SNEAK and sucks, the ladder just does not like to push it down to Zu as hazard control copeium

Pincurchin rlly doesnt do anything the other Electric-types cant do better aside from maybe spikes

Flareon has 0 redeeming qualitys, as a Wishpasser its outclassed by Leafeon, Dachs, and Glaceon.

Pupitar is worthless has 0 niches over the other DD options, has no useage at all and should be removed

Pupitar use rates

Ladder:
| 116 | Pupitar | 0.24052% | 133 | 0.241% | 103 | 0.230% |
Swiss:
Nothing lmao
PUPL:
nothing lmao

Grumpig just does not feel like it does anything better than other Psychic-type options, useage backs that up.

Grumpig use rates

Ladder:
| 58 | Grumpig | 1.423% |
Swiss:
| 65 | Grumpig | 5 | 0.90% | 40.00% |
PUPL:
nothing lmao

B+ -> B-
yeah i agree with Gum here again, Sawsbuck really does not enjoy Haunter being back and still has issues with setting up imo, bitching its way through walls is still great though.

B / B- -> C
The TLDR to these mons is that they all have so tiny niches that they probably should just be dumped here. I dont think any deserve a UR, maybe Vespiquen but they all work if you know how to pilot them correctly.

B+ -> B-
The meta has not been favorable to it since the Carbink drop. Tinkatuff, Alolan Persian, Carbink, Klawf, Dachsbun and a few others give it a massive pain and Special sets just dont hit that hard enough to be justifyed. Its still cute as like, a Scarfer tho. the speed tier is also lacking.

B+ -> B- / C
This is another mon that feels bad now. Rotom-F, Electrode, and Raichu all outclass it as an Electric and flying types are not that good rn imo.

B+ -> B
Feels worse with Haunter back and it wanting like 6 moves but only being able to fit 4. I think its still perfectly fine as a wallbreaker though, but meta shifts just havent been that good for it.

B -> B- / C
sighs Dartrix unfortunately is incredible hard to slot on many teams rn. Its still the best form of hazard control we have but 1: thats not saying much and 2: its still incredibly hard to fit on a team and is passive after Defoging and knocking off something. Just does not seem that good and not alot fo stuff it can safely defog on.

B+ -> A-
Speed control is incredible and packs alot of utility for its team. Has rising use in Swiss and PUPL and its pretty clear why imo.

A+ -> S-
Probably the second or third best mon in the tier rn, has alot of utility and speed control on Pivot sets and packs a surprisingly good punch on NP sets, though it does not like Chansey or Bink at all. Fur Coat makes it fat too, and enables it to form a solid defensive backbone with stuff like AV Crab or Sliggoo. Overall, its just a very very good mon.

and thats pretty much it! This is probably my longest ever forums post, and if you want to ask about some noms just message me when im on PS! or @ me in the PU discord :)

 

[rien]

very excited to announce the formation of the VR council with our first added member being ishtar , congrats! we will be voting on this month's slate over the weekend so make sure to post any remaining noms you might have today/tomorrow.

(also using this announcement to sneak in a crabominable A- > A nom, this mon is really good rn, very hard to switch into reliably and takes advantage of the new drops extremely well)

 

[Aurist]

Alright time to get some noms/supports in. Are we still considering noms from prior to the shifts btw, because quite a lot of those are outdated at this point.

New mons
Chansey -> A-
I know a lot of people aren't super thrilled with Chansey in the tier due to being a momentum sink and set up bait for some mons, but I just think Chansey due to its unique utility of Heal Bell and hard special walling is very impactful on the tier even if it doesn't perform incredibly in every game it's in. Balance and fat teams absolutely love this mon even when offense really doesn't and it's also really not hard to build around its weaknesses. Definitely a flawed A tier mon to me.

Haunter -> A+
Either #1 or #2 most splashable offense mon in the tier, highly versatile, hampered only by a speed tier below some prominent offense mons itself. Makes Balance's life hard. Has several sets with a lot of tech options. Scarf feels like the best general set but Sub sets can be matchup winners.

Klawf -> S/A+
Likely the #1 mon in the tier right now just for being so splashable as a multitool check/pivot/hazard setter/knocker that enables most playstyles in the tier in some capacity. Only reason I'm not certain about S is it does have matchups where it's a bit of a "click Knock/SR and die" mon. Bulky sets definitely outstrip offensive sets in PU but you can't overlook the offensive sets either. Nonetheless you do always know what it is doing, but you aren't likely to stop it from doing what it needs to do even if it dies after.

Sliggoo-Hisui -> B
This thing is feeling a lot more niche than the last time it was here, a mon that exists to check whether you've built a team weak to it but not really a blanket check to things like A tier mons often are.

Spiritomb -> A-
Honestly this mon is quite underexplored as people got hung up on the (good) CM rest set and I'm not seeing a lot else being played so I'm not 100 on this placement. I think Spiritomb is placed to be the main "spinblocker" of the tier for whatever blocking spins is worth these days, it doesn't eat hits as well as you'd expect but it's also very very versatile with a lot of capabilities for both CM/NP/TR defensive/offensive sets and bulky utility sets. This placement is somewhat in advance of people unlocking its true potential I feel as I don't think that has been met yet in PU.

Wyrdeer -> B+/B
Another weird one, people seem to be finding some success with double dance sets that I can't help but feel are a gimmick but it's certainly above Calyrex as far as this goes. Has some unexplored potential as a bulky attacker and broad check to stuff like Gogoat but I'm not yet sure how it holistically takes a spot in PU.

--
Rises
Persian-Alola -> S
Not sure I expected this mon to get even better in this tier but here we are. Sets an almost unreachable bar for speed tiers in PU and is one of the first things I'm always considering my matchup against and considering building into a team. It's one of the hardest things to check in the tier to the point of being borderline to me, and one of the easiest things to slot in the team to get a mon that acts as a speed check, temporary check to phys mons and wincon at the same time. Fishing to find out Persian's Tera is also a dangerous game you often have to play. Bonkers mon in PU right now I feel.

Whiscash -> A+
The loss of Articuno to NU meant there's little standing in the way of chucking Whiscash on a team and getting value. Can flex to check different mons in the tier depending on its EVs and moves, is easily the best spiker in the tier and a premier volt blocker too. Often just sits there and lays spikes until it dies but we love her for it.

Swalot -> B+
One of the unsung heroes of the last few weeks of PU, go check out some PUPL and you'll see why I want to raise it so much higher than it is. Only Knock absorber in the tier, has the rare and excellent Toxic, can be a low key bulky wincon with Stockpile sets and sits on just a lot of the tier. Synergises well with other defensive mons in the tier so works well on fat and balance teams especially.

Crabominable -> A
Simply this thing doesn't have as many bad matchups as it used to and is harder to switch in on than it once was. Enough said really.

Gogoat -> S
Anyone nomming this thing down is kidding themselves. Blanket check to half the tier and one of the top wincons in the tier at the same time. You build a PU team and you're using Gogoat or you're ensuring you have multiple answers to it.

Leafeon -> A-/B+
Another PUPL success story hard checking crucial phys attackers like Basculin and Dugtrio-A in a tier with limited answers to them, and being pretty much the only mon that regularly pulls off Wish passes. Incorporating Yawn into its 4th slot seems to have solved its prior issues of momentum loss to some degree.

Thwackey -> B+/B
Month of the bulky grass types I guess, this mon has been getting better for a while as something of a half way point between Gogoat and Leafeon, hits pretty hard and itself checks Gogoat hard in a way that's rare in the tier thanks to Knock/U-Turn/Taunt. Wood Hammer hits hard. Grassy Terrain supports Evio mons in particular like Tinkatuff and Mareanie who are well positioned in the tier but can struggle to keep up their presence against offensive threats. Definitely an asset to teams that want to make a use of that stuff. Grassy Terrain can have a downside as as a Knock mon you're wanting to be paired with Spikes but the trade off is often worth it for the trickle of healing the opp sometimes gets.

--
Drops
Misdreavus -> A+
No longer needed on every team and defensive sets don't cover as much as they used to. Still one of the best mons in the tier. NP sets got better than pre-shift.

Carbink -> A
Not the best hazard mon in the tier any more and not quite so splashable as the tier has really adapted to handle it. Still checks a lot of stuff and is well matched into the tier.

-> B+
Currently being outclassed by Charizard and Pyroar in most circumstances. A threatening breaker nonetheless. Belongs in the tier with Honchkrow and Zangoose for sure.

-> A-
It can run away with games with QD and can flex into Sticky Web but not as good at either of these things in August I feel.

-> C
We haven't seen this mon in 2 months. It doesn't sweep and it doesn't wall. It technically has a place in the tier as a cleaner but idk for how long as that takes a lot of setup.

-> UR
We haven't seen this mon for longer than Dragonair. Kind of a theorymon that noone really proved since it was added. QuakeEdge is cute and it's bulky but the A tier destroys this thing in so many ways.

-> UR
Matches horribly against the tier, its speed tier is now contested and it gets walled by stuff. Unmon in current PU.

--
That's my noms for now. I do think the tier list will need a fair bit of maintenance if we want to be super accurate for the next couple months and I don't know if that's totally worth? We can probably get a close-ish to accurate picture with a couple broad changes anyway.

Also don't UR Stonjourner cowards it's a real mon

 

[AstilCodex]

Nomssssssss

New to B+
The majority of times I've seen this mon perform or me playing it, it feels like I do more for the Pokemon to stand out than it does for my team. It kinda reminds me of 1st month Quaxwell. We thought it was great for sure but the adaptation has come quite fast. Its notoriously passive, predictable and susceptible to boosting moves and hazards. Still tho, I think its underexplored and I'll need to test it more to see if maybe its even lower(? Cant wait for Chansey ZU with DLC.

New to A+
Extremely solid mon. Offensive ghost, or ghost in general is great in the tier. Choiced sets and other variations are easily splashable in common cores. Hits hard has decent coverage in Fblast and Eball. Also Good resistances with Levitate and x4 to grass so it can hard pivot in stuff. Skuntank being less common right now helps it a lot. Haunter is a top mon for sure.

New to S
Easily the best mon in the tier. I think every archetype benefits from running Klawf. It can blanket a lot with Regen + decent bulk. Its by far our best Knocker which makes hazards game incredibly powerful, like they weren't powerful before. Crabhammer, HHP, Trailblaze is great coverage and options to run, also gimmicky set in Anger Shell. Boots, CB, Scarf, AV, SD Trail. Are all around A to S sets. I think with Klawf in the tier its now the only S rank imo.

New to B
Idk man this mon feels very weird to have on a team cuz the role it should be performing its done better by something else in most cases. WhisKlawf cores would in theory appreciate this mon but just like Chansey it seems very exploitable with the common tools we have. Like sure it sits on Grass-Types and its great VS the rain MU. But thats about it. I doubt if it should be ranked lower tho.

New to B+
This mon seemed broken the first few days but we realized quickly that we have enough offensive tools to handle a CroTomb. In general it takes a lot of boost to start doing significant damage. It doesnt appreciate Encore users. NP persian 1v1s it, Daschbun can tank it on and such. Still the typing is very clutch and I think eventually new Tomb variations will appear soon to prove it solid.

New to B+
I thought this guy would be bad but honestly I think it has a lot of potential. Either being a Double dance sweeper or a Specs user, it performs better than Calyrex did and has good coverage for do the latter. Good abilities for its longevity and solid moves to click tbh. A bulkier but slower Indeedee can come in clutch in some builds. I think its underlooked atm.

Rises:

A+ to S-
Best pivot, blanket check, sweeper. Persian performs a ton of roles with one or two sets and its a top 5 in the current meta. I think it stands above everything in A+ atm.

A to A+/S-
Whiscash is better than ever with cuno leaving. Being the best spiker in the spikes meta is huge. Typing is clutch for blanketing so many common threats. I would say only downside is that usually it needs to check a lot and it can get worn down eventually. But overall its weaknesses get compensated by what it offers.

B+ to A-
Electrode is easily better than everything in B+ atm. Big fan of trode lets ignore what happened vs loti thx being faster than Duggy-A and Persian as an electric type is huge. It can be an option over Frostom and Raichu for a lot of teams that wants better speed control. Its tera blast can be customizable depending on the team. Trode is great

B- to B+
B- to B
stay B+
I think grass types are great now as they abuse WhisKlawf cores very effectively. I think all three of these guys have their unique merits and are relevant enough to rise and keep viability

Drops:

S to A+
Doesn't feel that godly right now and has competition as a ghost-type. Still unique at its role and now I think offensive sets got better but its not a need in the teambuilder as before. Still a top mon just not S.

A+ to A
Bink feels predictable now and very susceptible to good plays(? as its counterplay its naturally found in the common builds we have, still a great hazards mon but it doesnt feel that mandatory in the defensive role now with Fire-types fishing tera types to beat it and Klawf existing.

S to S-
This is only because I think Klawf is the only S mon now. But it doesnt really matter. Still top mon

 

[Stories]

hey! I'm officially out of PUPL after performing horribly in it, and I just built Giannis' team for PU for this week of Slam, so I've been playing a lot of PU in general.

I think Wydeer is insanely good, but because of just how customizable it is, people just don't know what to do with it. I made a team around Grassy Seed Wyrdeer with Calm Mind + Agility and it very easily swept in Giannis' game, but I also think Choice Specs and Assault Vest sets are incredible in this metagame and seeing people rank Wyrdeer anywhere lower than like A rank is insane to me. Just by sheer BST alone Wyrdeer owns a lot of PU, but the Normal typing gives it an edge against Misdreavus and Haunter, and Ground coverage covers nearly everything that Wyrdeer's STAB's don't hit.

I don't have anything else as unique to say, Klawf is obviously S, I think Pyroar should be A+, Leafeon is probably B+ or A- at this point. I may submit the team / variations of the team as a sample if it gets accepted idk.

 

[Hera]

new to b+ despite how passive it is sometimes it's still pretty good at walling off most special attackers, spreading chip/para, and just generally being annoying. not that hard to fit on teams imo and pretty easy to use. dead weight in a few matchups but at least it's threatening on team preview. sucks it's gotta run boots though, eviolite would be great for it. also don't run phydef evs on your chansey, there's almost never a situation where it wants them.

new to a+ don't feel like regurgitating what everyone has said, very strong offensive mon that takes advantage of a lack of ghost resists and the abundance of fast pivots in the meta, although it wants to be just a bit faster sometimes. otherwise it's a massive threat that you should be at least trying to prep for on every team.

new to a/a+ honestly i'm a lot lower on this mon than everyone else. very strong tools and a threat on tp cause you can't tell if it's defensive or sd, but in practice it despises not having momentum and is a bit too reliant on tera to beat things. very good at facilitating hazard stack builds but those suffer from an issue of not being able to win fast enough vs some teams, namely the more offensive boots spam teams that seem to be more common now. a welcome addition to the tier but i don't think this is the new best mon or anything.

new to b+ probably not bad, hates all the fast taunters and encorers running around but can be annoying for bulkier teams. long-term checks in this meta still don't really exist so it puts teams on a timer of sorts, like goat, although considering the mons it wants gone it's a lot harder to support than goat. also please do not use special sets they are so very bad, just stick with curse.

new to b- bad mon. outclassed by missy and haunter as a defensive/offensive ghost respectively, and outclassed by persian-a as a bulky dark. statline looks impressive but bad hp stat holds back its bulk and horrible speed keeps it from being an actual threat vs most cores. has some neat role compression but usually it's not enough to actually be good.

new to b+/a- double dance sets are real and a suprisingly annoying threat, since you can ev to outspeed trode at +2, click tera fairy on persian-a, and setup on a lot thanks to intimdate/sap sipper. pair that with specs, which has good enough power + coverage + trick, and you have a solid mon that's hard to discern on tp and one that is quickly finding a niche.

a+ to s- it was already good but it seems to have benefited a lot from the drops. beats up klawf, non-scarf haunter, and sliggoo while threatening chansey and wyrdeer after some chip. hates wisp spiritomb but nobody uses that anyway. with the rise of electrode it's supplemented raichu as the 350 speed control mon thanks to hitting hard + resisting tera blast + revenging faster shit with sucker. honestly just a really good and splashable mid game breaker with great wincon potential thanks to sd, and i find duggy-a endgames to be easier than ever to achieve.

a- to b+ on paper its niche stems from outspeeding duggy-a, raichu, and persian-a, but in practice this doesn't really matter all that much; the secondary stab that duggy-a provides is such a huge improvement over a slightly better speed tier most of the time, and that's being reflected in pupl, swiss, and ladder.

b+ to a-/a been spamming this mon lately and it just feels sooo good at its role. i've never found it to be a dead slot and it's so efficent at pivoting around the opposing team, racking up chip for itself and others, and teraing on checks to remove them. like duggy-a it's replaced raichu on a lot of teams as the near mandatory electric, and pairs super well with duggy-a itself due to their synergy. just generally a great pick all around and very hard to not get use out of.

c to b- dunsparce gaming is a real thing and it's pretty damn good. like sliggoo it hates all the taunt users running around but spreading para/poison, even in a meta with heal bell chansey, is great for teams. coil and cm sets can also be auto 6-0 buttons in the right mus, although rocks is still a pretty decent set. unfortunately i don't think it can go any higher because drops like haunter, klawf, and wyrdeer are pretty good and annoying and crippling it.

 

[rien]

VR Update - August 14th, 2023

hello everyone, quite a massive (and long overdue for some of these mons) vr shift this time. as always, individual votes and reasonings can be found on the sheet.

new
Klawf NEW > S
Haunter NEW > A+
Spiritomb NEW - A-
Chansey NEW > B+
Wyrdeer NEW > B+
Sliggoo-Hisui NEW > B

rises
Persian-Alola A+ > S
Whiscash A > A+
Crabominable A- > A
Electrode B+ > A-
Leafeon B- > B
Swalot C > B
Falinks C > B-
Scovillain C > B-

drops
Misdreavus S > A+
Carbink A+ > A
Charizard A+ > A
Dugtrio-Alola A+ > A
Masquerain A > A-
Raichu A > A-
Dachsbun A- > B+
Dugtrio A- > B+
Gabite A- > B+
Golduck A- > B+
Indeedee-F A- > B+
Houndoom A > B
Flapple A- > B
Honchkrow B+ > B
Rabsca B+ > B
Sawsbuck B+ > B
Zangoose B+ > B
Lumineon B+ > B-
Rotom-Fan B+ > B-
Glaceon B > B-
Mareanie B > B-
Squawkabilly B > B-
Banette B > C
Dragonair B > C
Ampharos B- > C
Quaxwell B- > C
Sneasel B- > C
Spidops B- > C
Vespiquen B- > C
Drakloak B- > UR
Grumpig B- > UR
Pupitar B- > UR
Calyrex C > UR
Carkol C > UR
Flareon C > UR
Frogadier C > UR
Pincurchin C > UR
Stonjourner C > UR

 

[UberSkitty]

Just remove S- as an option and let Gogoat drop to A+ smh

 

[Meri Berry]

Just remove S- as an option and let Gogoat drop to A+ smh

Raise it to S* mon is better than stupid ass Klawf smh

 

[gulch]

been a while since i made a pu vr post, huh?

B+ > A-
Remarkably consistent at what it does. I feel like the opinion that the level of support required to pull this off being too high is slowly starting to phase out, and for good reason. It has decent enough bulk that, alongside Calm Mind boosts and Intimidate (also the occasional Grassy Seed), it can really sneak up on you if you're not careful and rewards proper positioning by just outright running away with games. Probably the best user of Tera in the current metagame as well, Tera Blast is the ultimate flex slot when it always gives you STAB, and being able to abuse it to muscle through Dark-types is a sweet bonus.

B- > B
It'd be wrong to mention Wyrdeer without bringing up its partner in crime too, yeah? Sets terrain, procs seeds, so on and so forth... but is also just a really solid team player aside from that? One of five Knock Off users in the meta, and Grassy Terrain provides the excellent benefits of weakening the Dugtrio family's Earthquakes and giving passive recovery to grounded teammates in a meta where Heavy-Duty Boots are nearly mandated. Very cool little guy who I think deserves more credit.

A+ > S-
Is this a hot take? It feels like a hot take. Mr. Cash Money himself is so unbelievably free to slap on so many teams, setting hazards and providing excellent defensive matchups against a lot of top level threats, either taking hits comfortably or forcing them to Tera/run otherwise not great coverage just to hit it solidly. Raichu, Charizard, Pyroar, non-Trailblaze Klawf, Carbink, Electrode, Lycanroc, Perrserker... the list goes on. Oblivious is also really cool, making it immune to Taunt is niche but still undeniably helpful on a hazard setter. We do have very solid Grass options: Gogoat is great, Flapple is still relevant, and Leafeon and Thwackey have been on the rise. The lack of recovery is an issue as well, but it pairs so well with common Wish passers that this can reasonably mitigated. I really do think that Whiscash's defensive utility and specific coverage options are very powerful and assist such a wide variety of teams that S- feels appropriate.

UR > At least C, if not even B-
Alright. Time for my actual genuine crack pipe nomination. Pincurchin is viable, good even, and y'all are sleeping on it. I'm about to wake you up.

Firstly, check out this replay from PUPL featuring a Pincurchin team I built, somewhat modified and piloted by MrAldo. I link this replay for a few reasons. 1. I'm making a nom for an unranked mon, 2. It's tour footage, and 3. AstilCodex's team here really helps to emphasize my points on why Pincurchin is worth the slot. With the exception of Parting Shot Persian, Astil's team relies on Volt Switch Electrode for momentum. Now, this in and of itself is not the most grievous flaw ever. In fact, lots of teams in SVPU rely on Volt Switch for momentum. Between Electrode, Raichu, and our two Rotoms, Volt Switch is a very common move that a lot of teams benefit from. Moreover, our Grounds are either decently frail or take significant damage from coverage moves that the Electrics carry, such as Surf, Air Slash, and Blizzard. However, Pincurchin can function as a Volt blocker while also being unafraid of these coverage moves thanks to its typing in conjunction with Lightning Rod. In addition, it also has hard recovery and the ability to set hazards, while also having both physical and special coverage. Coming from 101/91 offensive stats, even an uninvested Pincurchin can deal reasonably high damage to both the Electrics it's coming in on and the Ground-types that would attempt to check it. For example:

0 SpA Pincurchin Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 160-190 (75.8 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Pincurchin Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dugtrio: 214-252 (101.4 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Pincurchin Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dugtrio-Alola: 160-190 (75.8 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Pincurchin Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio-Alola: 186-220 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

0 SpA Pincurchin Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Raichu: 72-85 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

0 Atk Pincurchin Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 100-118 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Pincurchin Surf vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Electrode: 72-85 (27.5 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

0 Atk Pincurchin Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electrode: 83-98 (31.8 - 37.5%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO

Add just one Spike, which Pincurchin can easily accomplish, and some of these become clean OHKOs. Give the urchin a chance. He's worth it.

B+ > B
Remember when you were a kid in elementary school, and there was that one really annoying kid that you and all of your friends didn't like? So you would just pretend they didn't exist and ignore them until they went away? That's Gabite right now. We're in a new radical post-HOME meta, and our Electrics have adapted to the point that you don't really have to respect Gabite to the same degree you used to. Also, the Dugtrio twins are just generally better at threatening things since they have an actual Speed stat. Really sad to see how far this one has fallen from grace :(

C > UR
lol why is he still here

 

[Aurist]

Just gonna support Melt's noms here.

Wyrdeer has proven remarkably successful and though it's a bit of a matchup check it has definitely proven itself beyond being just cheese - you're definitely considering how to not get swept by it when you're building every team.

Thwackey I've nommed up 2 or 3 times before and people haven't felt it even though it's a hard hitting supportive pivot with knock/turn that can hard check gogoat, and now it being the premier support for wyrd sweeps surely makes it undeniably better than people have been thinking and being a bulky grass is better than ever, only point being that it has a lot of competition for that. It's straightforwardly good.

Whiscash doesn't need much more said about it. If you're building you're starting from "my hazard setter is cash" until proven otherwise, it's a fairly modular mon that can build to check different things although broadly it's choosing between hitting harder and going bulky (full bulk is bad and ppl use it too much tho). Whiscash is def a face of PU right now and the tier is quite centralised so I don't see an issue with 4 S tier mons.

Pincurchin is def back on the rise as a bulky volt blocker, it's hugely out competed as a spiker so may need to figure out its build a little more but checking Electrode and Persian-A which are big parts of the meta rn is definitely a case for it's viability. C or B- both seem fair, I think it's on B- level of viability but is C levels of unproven right now.

Gabite is the only nom I'm unsure of. Despite its massive fall off mainly due to cash stealing its spot it is still a good alternative volt blocker and bulky mon as its dragon type is still useful. This thing gets a lot of chip easily on common balance teams too. I can see why it would drop as it could be considered outclassed but I'm still considering it when building teams that don't like having cash as much at least.

Wugtrio... it being still in viability is funny. It's not viable. The tier is built to handle mons that do its job better than it does.

--
Now a couple noms of my own

Up:
Leafeon B -> A-
We were really conservative only nomming this thing up 1 place. It's the best physical wall in the tier, the best wish passer in the tier, and "bulky grass" is a premier slot in PU right now. Its slot is highly competed for by the S tier Gogoat but being an immediate physical wall gives it a clear role. It has some flexible utility/coverage and lest we forget it has reliable recovery if it doesn't like the passiveness of Wishtect. A- I think because the high population of special attackers often force it out, but still an A tier mon imo.

Pyroar A -> A+
This thing is straightforwardly better than non-dd Charizards in this meta and Tera Grass genuinely takes over games while still being able to flex 2 of its moveslots for whatever its team needs. Definitely one of the best mons in the tier rn I feel. Mother for sure

Down:
Carbink A -> A-
Bink is falling off more. The tier is just so prepared for it with coverage all over the place and taunts/encores/etc that ruin its day and still a ghost on most teams. Nonetheless it is very usable as a mixed hazard user/threat that can check common mons but Whiscash is also that without the downsides.

Spiritomb A- -> B+
Where before I said this mon seemed good but unproven, at this point it's still unproven and I think that means it's just mid as hell. I think it'll find some proper niches beyond its cro set that isn't that hard to check but for now it's just not that impactful and doesn't eat hits like you want it to.

New:
Shroodle UR -> C
I know yall hate when this gets nommed but can we be real for a sec? HO weather is really hard to handle for most teams right now and Shroodle is the main dedicated setter people run. It's repeatedly gotten results in PUPL, winning 4 out of 5 games it's been present in, winning games as recently as last week showing its use case as a setter and utility mon that also isnt set up bait, and I doubt thats the end of it before the tour is over. HO is only getting better and weather is only getting better. Shroodle is viable.

 

[Morge]

A+ -> S-
Fully agree with this, its both our best hazard setter and our best ground type, both of which are extremely valuable roles to fill. Has plenty of options to let it check basically whatever it wants. Its held back from S rank proper because we have some very solid grass types that can abuse this things presence but regardless its extremely splashable and feels like an easy S-mon.

B+-> B
Honestly I prefer leafeon as a wishpasser on most teams now since it does well vs the klawf/whiscash hazardstack teams that are so common, although I would say they're about as good as each other. Its really passive and I feel like it struggles to actually do anything to the mons its supposed to check.

B+-> B
Just run Dugtrio-A idk

C -> UR
Toxic spikes are ok but not enough to justify itself over other hazard setters IMO, it both competes with whiscash as a hazard setter and loses to it in the lead matchup and overall isn't something I would ever consider actually running.

C -> UR
Mons bad. If you're ever in a situation where you need this thing on your team I would just start over. It rarely ever actually gonna get a successful spin off, you would think it would appreciate there being less missy but now it just runs into haunters and spiritombs instead. Whatever hyper specific team this fits on just probably isn't worth running in the first place, get this thing out of here.

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

C -> UR
Toxic spikes are ok but not enough to justify itself over other hazard setters IMO, it both competes with whiscash as a hazard setter and loses to it in the lead matchup and overall isn't something I would ever consider actually running.

C -> UR
Mons bad. If you're ever in a situation where you need this thing on your team I would just start over. It rarely ever actually gonna get a successful spin off, you would think it would appreciate there being less missy but now it just runs into haunters and spiritombs instead. Whatever hyper specific team this fits on just probably isn't worth running in the first place, get this thing out of here.

Personally, I disagree with unranking Glimmet and Quaxwell. If you want to use one team slot to get as many hazards as possible up, Glimmet is amazing at this. In order to completely deny any hazards from Glimmet, you need a special attacker with taunt, which is a more specific set of mons than most setters. Basically, it’s a HO lead but idk what HO is.

With Quaxwell, while I agree that it’s pretty bad, I don’t think it’s unviable. To remove Quaxwell would be to say it’s completely unviable, and as the only spinner in the tier, it has a niche. It doesn’t matter how many ghosts are in the tier or how often Quaxwell doesn’t spin- it still is the only spinner and it’s already in the lowest tier of viability. If you absolutely need hazard control and can’t use Dartrix, then Quaxwell is your only other option. I feel like Quaxwell is like webs in higher tiers- worth a footnote because it can work. While I have literally nothing to say abt Quaxwell itself, I don’t think it can be removed from the VR entirely.
I also fully expect this to age poorly in a week when we get both or either of Komala or H-Avalugg.


And a nom of my own:
B -> B+
I posted abt this in the other thread thingy, but it matches up really well against the tiers hazard setters, specifically Whiscash, while also providing removal, knock, and enough offensive pressure with leaf storm. Its flying type is a little unfortunate because it’s weak to the stealth rocks, rock types, and Whiscash ice beam, but it’s bulky enough to survive a hit. Idk if it’s enough for a rise, but the introductions of Whiscash and Klawf have helped Dartrix.

 

[gum]

whiscash is great, and a top 5 pokemon, but it really suffers from too many issues to be in s-. it's not particularly bulky; it doesn't actually switch into anything that well, and it wants both boots and lefties. it's also very, very weak - being that passive hurts a lot when you want to switch into things like pyroar, frosttom, klawf, and even crabominable, but then don't really force any of these things out? i don't think it's comparable to our s-rank mons, imo it simply has too many flaws that make it more comparable to every other pokemon in a+. very very good, but not amazing


this thing is unironically on par, if not better, than alolan duggy. the speed tier means sd sets are actually good, while other alolan duggy sets kinda struggle in general; i'd really only use scarf / cb, or rocks 3 attacks if i was really desperate. i think both belong in a-, and the more i play the more i value regular duggy as a sweeper


quaxwell also isn't bad, rapid spin is usable again with missy going from being on every other team to like, not really? being a top 10 pokemon anymore. spiritomb doesn't receive anywhere as much usage as peak missy did, while haunter is a non-issue really. but anyway i think offensive quaxwell is decent, and kinda scary to deal with, now that everyone is using gogoat as a water resist. roost liquidation bbird ajet with moxie is scary, and gets multiple chances to get in vs mons like whiscash, wigtrio, and basculin to start clicking buttons, which is imo a pretty valuable niche. and obviously its natural bulk makes it a very good tera user as well! idk, i'd rather see it rise but i also know this set has never really picked up this generation so i'd be fine with it staying where it is

also we should really nuke s-, i don't think that rank is needed anymore. it was nice to have back when there was an actual gap between mons in s, s-, and a+. whether gogoat should drop or rise is up to debate, but i don't think our current s-ranked mons are like, that above the rest of the metagame that we can justify s- imo

lastly, what would ppl think of us adding rank descriptions? it'd generally make the vr less subjective because there'd be objective requirements, and also just makes more sense imo. if we have a metagame with no real top pokemon, we don't have to shove some in s-rank for the sake of it when people aren't really sure. thanks for reading!

 

[gulch]

whiscash is great, and a top 5 pokemon, but it really suffers from too many issues to be in s-. it's not particularly bulky; it doesn't actually switch into anything that well, and it wants both boots and lefties. it's also very, very weak - being that passive hurts a lot when you want to switch into things like pyroar, frosttom, klawf, and even crabominable, but then don't really force any of these things out? i don't think it's comparable to our s-rank mons, imo it simply has too many flaws that make it more comparable to every other pokemon in a+. very very good, but not amazing


this thing is unironically on par, if not better, than alolan duggy. the speed tier means sd sets are actually good, while other alolan duggy sets kinda struggle in general; i'd really only use scarf / cb, or rocks 3 attacks if i was really desperate. i think both belong in a-, and the more i play the more i value regular duggy as a sweeper


quaxwell also isn't bad, rapid spin is usable again with missy going from being on every other team to like, not really? being a top 10 pokemon anymore. spiritomb doesn't receive anywhere as much usage as peak missy did, while haunter is a non-issue really. but anyway i think offensive quaxwell is decent, and kinda scary to deal with, now that everyone is using gogoat as a water resist. roost liquidation bbird ajet with moxie is scary, and gets multiple chances to get in vs mons like whiscash, wigtrio, and basculin to start clicking buttons, which is imo a pretty valuable niche. and obviously its natural bulk makes it a very good tera user as well! idk, i'd rather see it rise but i also know this set has never really picked up this generation so i'd be fine with it staying where it is

also we should really nuke s-, i don't think that rank is needed anymore. it was nice to have back when there was an actual gap between mons in s, s-, and a+. whether gogoat should drop or rise is up to debate, but i don't think our current s-ranked mons are like, that above the rest of the metagame that we can justify s- imo

lastly, what would ppl think of us adding rank descriptions? it'd generally make the vr less subjective because there'd be objective requirements, and also just makes more sense imo. if we have a metagame with no real top pokemon, we don't have to shove some in s-rank for the sake of it when people aren't really sure. thanks for reading!

agree with the points made here on duggy, the speed really does distinguish it especially when it's faster than Raichu and doesn't have to risk the speed tie

also agree that getting rid of s- is fair since the two S-rank mons (aside from maybe klawf, but that's a stretch) aren't really that much better than everything else in A+. in terms of what to do with gogoat, I think it's a lot closer to A+ than it is to S.

also please do add rank descriptions! it's not only good for FAQ purposes and clarifying the decision making process, but will also help the longevity of this meta years and years later once it ends up no longer being current gen. I generally think that giving as much information as possible is always a good thing and this is a great way to put that philosophy into practice.

 

[Aurist]

On S- rank, as I understood it it came into effect because council voting had been split between S and A+ evenly enough that it merited a half way point. I think that should probably maintain its position only when that is the case, similarly if a mon were to be so definitive it merited an S+ vote I think that should be possible. However I think nominations to those positions should be restricted to council votes rather than generically nominated to keep things simple enough. For the record, I support upping Whiscash to S tier straight up as it is a mon that is de facto in your team until proven otherwise and the S tier merits being larger on account of being a quite centralised tier.

On adding definitions to ranks, I support adding further info that helps those who know less put things into context, and there is a lot of prior writing out there on definitions for tiers so it shouldn't be too hard. I ask that we not be too prescriptive on our tiers as "viability" in itself is a subjective thing but broad language and lots of "or"s is useful for exactly that. A degree of community involvement in its development is probably necessary but I'm sure the bulk of work on it will come from the council(s).

Also I agree that Dugtrio regular does not merit deranking, Glimmet/Quaxwell are worthy of their C position (for Glimmet, Tspikes are improving right now and so is HO that wants fast hazard stacking / for Quaxwell, it has a use case as a hybrid bulky water and chip mon with its offensive sets imo and spin+moxie lets it threaten quite a few mid speed and defensive mons. still a terrible hazard remover tho) and Dartrix merits a rank up for being the only functioning hazard remover and having a good matchup into top mons plus having knock off makes it very much worthwhile for teams that want to win the hazard game given knock off is more prevalent.

 

[White Pikmin]

adapted from the swsh pu viability rankings thread

art by IoSonoNeon​

Most of you know the drill by now, but if you don't: viability rankings are a method of sorting Pokemon in a given tier based on how good they are in said tier. S rank is reserved for the defining Pokemon of the tier, while C rank is the place for near unviable Pokemon that have almost no worthwhile use in the metagame. As the metagame changes, the rankings are periodically updated by players who are well-versed in the tier. Note that ranks are done alphabetically and not by viability.

Do not post one-liners in this thread. Unless it is an exceptional sentence that is able to justify or explain something in a few words, one-liners rarely contribute anything of value to a thread. If nominating an unranked Pokemon to be ranked, it is highly recommended that you get feedback from the PU room and/or Discord beforehand to make sure there is a concrete reason that said Pokemon deserves to be ranked, and make sure to include replays. Opinions contribute very little to the discussion if they do not have something to back them up, nor do posts that look at a single point and ignore everything else that has been said. When arguing for a Pokemon's ranking, account for opposition, and do not attempt to ignore the drawbacks of a Pokemon either.

For this thread, remember this: it is not on the community to do the research and debating for your proposed change. If you want something to rise, drop, or be added, please do the work to gather the evidence. If you made a nomination that didn't go through, it didn't get ignored - feel free to ask for reasonings by messaging a mod, or asking in the SQSA or PU Discord chat (but please do not ask in this thread). Also, contact a mod if you find a small error (Pokemon inadvertently omitted from the list, etc.) rather than posting in the thread about it.

PU does not use rank descriptions like some other tiers do. Each Pokemon in a rank should just be seen as above or under Pokemon in other ranks rather than needing to fit a certain set of criteria.

The VR council currently consists of:
asa
Aurist
DugZa
fish anemometer
gum
ishtar
rien
Shaneghoul
Vulpix03

New (not ranked yet)
none atm

S Rank
S

Klawf

Persian-Alola

S-

Gogoat

A Rank
A+

Basculin-Blue-Striped

Haunter

Misdreavus

Rotom-Frost

Whiscash

A

Carbink

Charizard

Crabominable

Dugtrio-Alola

Perrserker

Pyroar

Skuntank

A-

Electrode

Lycanroc-Midnight

Masquerain

Raichu

Spiritomb

Tinkatuff

B Rank
B+

Chansey

Dachsbun

Dugtrio

Gabite

Golduck

Indeedee-F

Wyrdeer

B

Dartrix

Flapple

Honchkrow

Houndoom

Leafeon

Rabsca

Sawsbuck

Sliggoo-Hisui

Swalot

Zangoose

B-

Camerupt

Falinks

Glaceon

Lumineon

Mareanie

Quilladin

Rotom-Fan

Scovillain

Squawkabilly

Thwackey

Vigoroth

C Rank

Ampharos

Banette

Beartic

Dragonair

Dunsparce

Glimmet

Murkrow

Quaxwell

Sneasel

Spidops

Vespiquen

Wugtrio

Where Carkol

 

[Aurist]

Where Carkol

it bad

long answer

Carkol is not considered viable because its primary niche is as a spinner and it cannot get off a rapid spin when almost all teams run a reliable ghost type that easily beat it in both the short term and long term. If it could spin it might offer some role compression as it is a bulky Rock which is useful, however there are substantially better bulky rocks in the tier and those arent weak to Stealth Rock themselves (Klawf, Carbink). It also has Spikes but again there's better Spikers in the tier and Whiscash is the premier of those and can wall similar mons without being hazard weak. Basically there's nothing Carkol does that isn't done better than several other mons in the tier and its ability to do all those things would be considered good role compression if it wasn't so cripplingly flawed as a wall.

 

[pokeclysm]

Well, Komala and Hisuian Avallugg dropped to PU. Not 100% where they'll place right now, but I do have one mom to make:

to D/Blacklist

Quaxwell already struggled to find use given its low damage and lack of recovery but now it's entirely outclassed by Komala. Komala has great damage by PU standards and a surprisingly decent special defense as well. Both of these things let it beat the ghosts that would prevent a Rapid Spin far more easily than Quax could ever hope to. For instance, it can easily OHKO Haunter with Shadow Claw while surviving even the occasional Focus Blast, and its Comatose ability means Misdreavus can't burn it to permanently ruin it. Quax's Eviolite capability doesn't matter when Komala is so much better at forcing progress. I can only hope it drops to ZU so they get a decent spinner.

 

[gum]

it's currently way too early in the metagame to make nominations. we don't know what niche quaxwell might have yet, and how it'll settle into the new metagame. for now, please use the metagame thread -- whether you want to discuss old faces or new ones. making nominations now is pretty much useless

 

[Aurist]

Think I've seen enough to start making some noms for the new mons. I do think we should probably not get down to the nitty gritty of the VR this month as it's going to be obliterated next month, but keeping the info up at least for the top mons should still be done so people can still refer to it for the next 3 weeks. This month's drops sure are impactful for the tier.

Tauros-Paldea-Combat -> S
You are putting this thing on your team if you want to win. What counterplay there is to this mon is convoluted while Pauros clicks buttons. BU takes over whole games and CB has little to no switch ins. Ghosts were already highly valuable for teams, with Pauros in the tier they're mandatory. Run 3 checks and hope Pauros doesn't predict right. It switches in on a lot of stuff and acts as a temp check for several mons before killing stuff. Tera is hardly even necessary but makes what counterplay there is even harder. Please ban this thing, but if it's not banned it's S tier for sure.

Raichu-Alola -> A+
An almost straightforward upgrade on Raichu thanks to the backup STAB making switching in your volt blocker harder. No Lightning Rod means it's not an objective upgrade but it's nicer in every other way. Feels best at being an offensive pivot but also has flexible sweeper sets (NP 3 atks, NP encore, E terrain) that can doom certain packages of balance and offense respectively. Not broken from what I've seen but certainly top notch.

Cacturne -> A
Lovely toolkit mon, most desirable for its Sucker Punch and Spikes right now but packing water immune, psychic immune, electric resist and being able to flex into several sets and hitting hard in all of them are huge factors in teambuilding.

Komala -> A-
I remain somewhat unconvinced that teams packing spinners can hold up to the speed and power of PU but there's no denying this is a good mon, if somewhat predictable. Having both bulky wish sets and BU sets help it out and the status immunity is massive in PU, slow u-turn is wonderful and let it get off more wishes than some other passers. Supports a lot of good stuff including Pauros who would prefer not to run HDB. Issues with offensive pressure and being slightly setup bait are the only things keeping it A- in my mind, could definitely go up.

Veluza -> A-/B+
People are having mixed feelings on this fish and it certainly has some flaws. Struggles to get in, threatened by status and the multiple Sucker Punches in the tier and doesn't always KO bulky stuff after a setup. However between Tera Fighting and Recover sets this thing has a lot of ways to play around that stuff and is insanely threatening especially when you don't know if it's going to be a physical or special set (personally I like special a little more). Has the potential to fall either side of the A-/B+ marker imo depending on whether the meta trends fast enough to shut it down. Worth noting being outsped by scarf 110s (Dugtrio-A/Raichu/Raichu-A) is quite hard for it.

Avalugg-Hisui -> B+
Not quite as nice or flexible as Komala but nonetheless a threatening mon and decent phys wall, its typing is a bit of a liability even when packing HDB so it often eats a Tera slot making this not the first spinner or phys wall you'd pick when building, but usable nonetheless.

and there's only one non-new mon I want to nominate...

Basculin A+ -> A-
It's really, really hard to be a choice locked Basculin right now. Where before your switch ins were passive mons like Lumineon and Wish Leafeon, now too many things exploit you being trapped into a resisted move. If Pauros somehow stays in the tier you might as well run it over Basculin in all but HDB and Mixed sets which aren't that common. If it doesn't you still have to predict well to get good value from Basculin I feel. It's still strong af but its speed makes it hard to run CB and Scarf is feeling quite exploitable.

 

[Morge]

Feels kinda weird making VR noms considering the tier gets nuked next month but oh well I felt like it.

Old stuff

S -> A/A+
The increased knock distribution took klawf from being the best mon in the tier probably to just pretty good. Its still got nice bulk regenerator and is pretty decent at both offensive and defensive sets but now that half of the mons on most teams can probably run knock off its tools are less special.

A+ -> A-
Knock is literally everywhere which is awful for an eviolite reliant ghost like misdreavus. It just can't reliably check a lot of the things it could before, and it doesn't help that its competition in spiritomb got buffed.

A- -> B+
Everything has knock off now including fellow steel perrserker tinkatuff isn't special anymore, and it really doesn't appreciate getting knocked itself.

B- -> B/B+
Grassy glide is huge and makes thwackey a really nice anti offense mon, and it can even be a remarkably decent cleaner with swords dance. You either kill the opposing mon with grassy glide or you predict that they'll switch and U-Turn out or knock them. Really nice mon.

B- -> UR
Not a real mon, the funny blanking haunter with bulletproof gimmick is now done better by Hakamo-o and theres a million better spikers.

C -> B+
Knock off is massive for this mon since its no longer reliant on fucking bite for its dark stab. Excellent dual stab that doesn't really need to run coverage, great speed tier and decent power. Its still paper thin and can struggle to break through some walls but its a potentially very scary sweper.

C -> UR
How is this thing still ranked.

C -> UR
Everything has knock off now why would I use banette for it.

A- -> B-/C
Better(?) defensive typing and electric immunity give this a small niche over Raichu-A but is otherwise just outclassed. I guess with knock off you could run some dumb meme physical sets on it.

B -> B+
Being our only real knock absorber is really valuable in this meta and gives it very valuable defensive utility, and it gained knock itself which helps it make progress. Has a lot of different sets it can run and provides very valuable defensive utility.

C -> UR
Terrible defensive typing and outclassed at most of the things you would want it to do, I'm not sure when you would ever use this at the moment.

B -> A-
Even with vulpix being banned leafeon is really good at the moment. It was already pretty slept on and knock off is a big boost to all of the things leafeon wanted to do. Offensive sets are better at wearing down checks, defensive sets are better able to make progress, and checking waters and grounds is always useful.

A- -> A
Even more flexible now and being a ghost thats not weak to knock makes it the go to for a defensive ghost and spinblocker. Would have been A+ if pauros was still around.

S- -> A+
We don't need an S- rank anymore. Gogoat is still great but doesn't really feel exceptionally great anymore to me.

New mons

-> A
Defog gurdurr is legitimately good removal that can beat common setters and doesn't care too much about hazards, bulk up is a very annoying wincon that is now actually worth running without pauros, and being able to absorb status thanks to guts is very useful. Great mon, not much more to say.

-> A+
Originally I thought this would be S rank but I don't think its that good, although its still great. Great typing and bulk that compresses a lot of roles very well and can wall annoying mons pretty well. Not having recovery is unfortunate but still a great glue mon that feels pretty comparable to whiscash.

-> A
Really cool mon. Pretty good rocker that's bulky, has some pretty strong priority, hits a lot of the tier super effectively and can block volt switches from most of our electric types very well, including being able to resist rotom frosts stab combo (Although most sets will lack options to actually hit it), and its very flexible with its tera type. It tends to get worn down pretty fast though.

-> B-
Being able to blank and set up on haunter with tera steel is cute but otherwise just a mediocre dragon dancer, but haunter is annoying so this is decent. Better than dragonair at least.

Also clefairy is probably decent but I haven't seen it or used it myself so I can't really say how good it is.

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

A- -> B-/C
Better(?) defensive typing and electric immunity give this a small niche over Raichu-A but is otherwise just outclassed. I guess with knock off you could run some dumb meme physical sets on it.

I cannot see Raichu being ranked this low at all. It's electric immunity is actually a considerable niche over Raichu-A, it reaches the same speed, and is not weak to ghost moves or knock (Somehow survives Sneasel knock: 252 Atk Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 207-244 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

I feel like Raichu's place depends a little on where the other electrics go. I agree that it is worse than Alolan Raichu, but it is by no means a B-/C tier mon. I would rank the electrics Frosttom > Electrode | Raichu-a > Raichu, with Raichu-a ending up probably in A- because it can deal with fighting types, and Raichu-kanto a tier below it in B+.

I would go on about how Raichu-k can tera water and do a lot of damage and check Frosttom better than the Alolan one, or how kanto can afford to run Volt Switch. + tbolt and alola can't really, but those are much smaller niches compared to dealing with the brand-new fighting type, which is the biggest reason to run Raichu-A, outside of 5 SpA.

Also,
New -> A-
Might actually be the best scarfer we have, outside of Frosttom. No Basculin and flip turn lets this thing shine, it can hit fighting types, and that's about all I have. Good mon.

 

[Aurist]

OK hi everyone so I got added to the VR council, it got announced on discord but not here so thought I'd mention it! Additionally gum and myself will be taking over responsibilities for recording and posting the VR slates from October.

I was prepared to double post here so I'm really glad to see others got in on the thread. A lot of old noms are quite outdated including mine above, but I'd quite like to get a "pre-dlc drops" VR finalised for posterity's sake. With that I'd like to join in nomming the new drops, add the new NFEs and shift just a couple major mons who are way out of place - anything more than that would be overkill IMO. Hoping people can keep this train rolling by discussing, making counter-noms or noms of their own so we can build a good picture of what happened in this gen, it would be a shame to lose some of the process to history after all.

--
Avalugg-Hisui feels about the same as it was before, I still support a B+ rank for it as a decent defensive spinner with some good damage that isn't too exploitable but also struggles to get in somewhat and kinda wants to eat Tera a bit.

Cacturne is A- in my books as a flexible damage dealer, not as required for water/psychic immunes perhaps with Basculin ban and Veluza falling out of favour but strong leaf storms and sucker punches make it a really notable presence in teams imo.

Komala to A for me, remarkably consistent as a special tank with decent threat, rapid spin does way more damage than it feels like it should, only truly spinblocked by Spiritomb as it can beat the other ghosts with offensive sets, slow bulky u-turn is super cute and well people are just running this mon all the time.

Raichu-Alola is an A mon right now I feel, not quite the super threat I was painting it to be prior to the bans but a wonderfully consistent fast mon that strongly benefits from its backup stab but the tier is also jam packed with suckers and knocks right now making its job just a little harder. Marginally more consistent than regular Raichu but with the downside of not providing a volt absorber for offensive teams.

Hate to say it, but Veluza is a B tier mon right now, its setup has some strong threat but it's just so wildly inconsistent, tends to struggle to come in and tends to struggle to OHKO when it desperately needs to. Eats up tera to not get super revenged by everything, and even then is outsped really crucially by 110 scarf mons which easily KO it after it boosts or before in Raichu(-A)'s case. I imagine there are some other sets it can run but non-Fillet Away sets are underexplored for the most part (ppl are starting to pick up scarf but it's so slow).

--
the fresh DLC NFEs:

to me Gurdurr is one of the best mons in the tier right now, offering top notch threat and setup, good bulk, and being the best hazard removal in the tier imo, sometimes in the same set. For this reason I'd nom it to A+ but I can see A too as not every game is its best.

Gligar seems to be next up as far as performance goes with the new NFEs, matches up nicely against the tier, has borderline infinite physical bulk and some really nice utility in Knock, U-turn, Toxic, Spikes, Taunt, Stealth Rock. With that said I'd still put it at A- as it's kind of weirdly a support mon that needs support, lacking recovery gets it chipped really fast and it's quite passive. SD sets exist but in my eyes are broadly outclassed by Gabite.

Piloswine is like... kinda crazy good? A- imo, adds some nice flexibility to the ground types and SR setters in the tier, has threat while being bulky. bit exploitable nonetheless

Clefairy is a B mon to me, passable and consistent bulk and a somewhat flexible mon that really loves not taking hazard chip but doesn't actually match up that well against the A tier.

a quick round of some of the lesser NFEs also...

C - has potential, underexplored

B- - bulky but knock is everywhere...

C - not the one... but bulky and versatile

B- - hits hard once per mon now it has knock. almost good
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And as for the older mons who feel most important to change their current viability, I'm gonna keep up the short noms for now:

Klawf S -> A- - fell off hard, less of a niche now everything has knock, still a good bulky regen mon

Gogoat S- -> A - just a bit more unfavored than it once was, partly again cos of knock and Leafeon becoming a lot more favoured

Carbink A -> B+ - super outclassed as a hazard setter, has unfortunate weaknesses for a wall, setup is easy to counter. still a threat

Pyroar A -> A+ - it's better than Zard, more reliable with acc, more flexible with its moveslots and tera, and I wanna run it on every team ever

Leafeon B -> A - even when this got nommed to B it deserved much higher. reliable phys wall and good with SD too.

Dachsbun B+ -> A- - feels more favoured rn that's it really

Gabite: B+ -> A - SD Scale Shot is one of the hottest things in the tier rn, hard to switch in on, threatens both offense and bulky alike

Sliggoo-Hisui B -> B+ - super hard shutdown to special mons, acid spray lets it be less passive, removing spikes got easier