Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

[Talpr0ne]

B- to A-.
This is a drastic change, but I think hydreigon should be in A tier due to having 2 useful niches.

NICHE 1: SPECS WALLBREAKER


Running Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon and Focus Blast with Tera dark, this set is the bane of balance teams. CLODSIRE gets shredded by Draco meteor spam with unaware ignoring SpA drop. Dark pulse can crush balance teams as it is very spammable. Combine it with Focus Blast, and it has wide coverage, hitting Ting-Lu very hard with fighting coverage and crushing Kingambit. Flash Cannon rips apart many fairy types. This set is stopped by Azu tho.

NICHE 2: DEFOGGER



Hydreigon is a defogger that can beat Gholdengo. This set is the same as the choice specs set except it has Draco swapped for Defoe and a different item and Tera. It has levitate, so it can withstand many rounds of hazard damage. It can unleash offenses and anything that can withstand it is defog fodder.

Defog is MUCH harder to block than rapid spin and mortal spin, as it has only 1 immunity, so some teams may want to use it.

I would agree Defog was a valid niche for Hydreigon if it could actually learn it in SV.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Didn't really feel strongly enough about other mons I would consider nomming to drop, but shout out to Iron Treads and Quaquaval for being consistently ass❤, not ranking you down though cuz I suspect i'm not using yall as well as I should be, or not experimenting enough.

Treads is okay at hazard removal and if you mess with the evs you can turn it into a physical attack sweeper with the right spread. Think it may be a b rank mon since tusk just completely eclipses it as far as its purpose but not sure. B or B- is probably fine for it.

Quaq is really good when you can bring it in to clean up the late game. However pex is a pain in the ass for it, as it can keep coming in and click haze preventing you from doing anything. This meta is very hostile to it, that being said it can work quite well, so B rank is pretty reflective of where it is right now as it is a great lategame mon, but it needs a bit of help to do its job. B seems fine for Quaq.
Hopefully Quaq can pop off when we get glowking back, as chilly reception should help with the problem of bringing it in, and Glowking will probably want pex's teamslot, being a fat regenerator poison type as well that is less passive despite having different roles.

 

[Swaggy-G]

Gotta say the way some people make nominations here is pretty funny because they're like.

Pokemon #1: Awful trash. It really struggles to fulfill the role it's intended to fill. The meta has not been kind to it lately and I'm tired of pretending it's still good.
A+ -> A

Pokemon #2: Really slept on and underrated. I've been using it on my teams lately and it's been slaying the opposition. I expect to see a lot of usage in the next tournament.
Unranked -> C

 

[sims796]

I swear that has always been an issue on this site for me especially when I was still new, the tone completely throws me off. I think I had to outright ask to have said tone explained, because apparently A- is much worse than B+ if I go by what I read

 

[zyzzyva]

I think a couple mons in B+ and B should swap places, namely and

B+ -> B
Painful nom since I do love Scizor but the shifts in the meta since the start of SV have not been kind to this guy. When the meta was more offensive with Grimmsnarl, Cyclizar, Roaring Moon, Valiant, etc. all over the place Scizor's CB Tera Steel Bullet Punches were a great asset in shutting these teams down before they could get going. But HO has more or less taken a backseat to Balance of late and this change brings with it a lot of Pokemon who have no trouble switching in to Scizor repeatedly. The list of Pokemon B- or above in the viability rankings that resist both of Scizor's STABs is disconcerting, to say the least: Gholdengo, Skeledirge, Toxapex, Volcarona, Corviknight, Cinderace, Iron Moth, Iron Treads, Scizor (lol), Ceruledge, Quaquaval, Iron Hands, both Paldean Tauros forms, Torkoal, Pawmot, Orthworm, and Pelipper... also any Pokemon using Tera Fire or Tera Steel.

Okay, not all of those are super meta relevant, not all of them take Bullet Punch all that well, and some of them have to fear coverage from CC/Thief, but in particular the first four Pokemon on that list are very in vogue right now and they all make Scizor's life very difficult. They're not Pokemon you want to Bullet Punch into and give away free turns, meaning Scizor is stuck U-Turning out against them and relying on its teammates to make useful progress. And even U-Turn isn't really free since it can be punished by the somewhat common Rocky Helmet, as well as Rough Skin, Flame Body, and perhaps even Toxic Debris. Even if you do KO something with Bullet Punch, giving a free turn afterwards to any one of the many threatening Steel resists in the tier (Volc, Kingambit, Cinder, Skele, etc.) can end up losing you more than you gain.

There are plenty of meta relevant Pokemon not on the above list that also match up well against Scizor, including Great Tusk, Dondozo, Garchomp, Rotom-W, and Tera Water Garg. Scizor doesn't even answer Espathra that well anymore on Team Preview since Tera Fire sets are on the rise. Psychic Terrain HO also seems to be on the rise right now and that's another playstyle that by and large shuts down Scizor.

It still retains some of the useful properties that got it ranked up here in the first place: Revenge KOing offensive threats like Chien, Valiant, Dnite, Dpult, Meowscarada, etc. with little to no chip is obviously a useful niche to have, and it still has some defensive utility with useful Grass, Ice, Dragon, and Fairy resists, but I don't think these properties are enough to justify ranking Scizor with the likes of Breloom, Iron Moth, and Meowscarada (who is probably underrated at B+).

Lastly, I've only discussed CB but I think that's the only set worth considering, as SD sets lack the immediate power needed to threaten offensive teams while still being unable to break through any half decent defensive core. Defensive sets basically don't exist anymore now that Scizor lost Roost.

B -> B+
Now here we have a Choice Band user worth considering. Tera Dragon CB Glaive Rush is straight up mean, plowing through anything that doesn't resist it and even threatening the bulkiest resists you'll find in the tier:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 163-192 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 199-235 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Dragon STAB is very spammable at the moment as there are only 2 Fairies in OU and neither one of them has any business switching into Banded Icicle Crashes. Dragon/Ice/Ground coverage as a whole is very powerful, as in OU only Orthworm resists that combo. Thermal Exchange is also a very nice ability, as a Burn immunity is a beautiful thing to have in a tier where Skeledirge, Rotom-W, Volcarona, and even Cinderace (don't switch in to Cinderace...) commonly carry Will-O-Wisp. Indeed, its typing, ability, and excellent natural bulk make it perhaps the best Rotom-W switch-in in the tier, as well as one of the best answers to the bulky Volcarona sets that are permeating OU right now. Ice Shard also gives it useful priority which helps revenge kill the numerous powerful Dragon and Grass types in the tier including Dpult, Dnite, Roaring Moon, Meowscarada, and Breloom.

And unlike Scizor, Baxcalibur does have some set variety as DD sets are also completely viable and can roll over offensive teams after a single DD. Loaded Dice, Lefties, and Boots are all viable options for these sets, and there are plenty of options for Tera typing too, including either STAB type, Ground for more powerful EQs, and Ghost and Fairy for the defensive utility. Personally not as big of a fan of these sets but they definitely have some merit.

As weaknesses go, obviously the Rocks weakness sucks, the speed tier is just okay which can limit its opportunities against more offensive teams, Ice typing limits its defensive utility, and of course if you want to use it currently you have to justify not using Chien-Pao instead--which is completely possible, since A)Thermal Exchange vastly improves the match-up against Volcarona and Rotom-Wash, and B)Glaive Rush is much more powerful than Crunch and has fewer relevant resists that can switch into it. These drawbacks are worth considering for sure, but I nevertheless think Baxcalibur has enough merit to justify a B+ ranking, above Pokemon like Ceruledge, Azu, and Fire Tauros which I would consider far less worthwhile. Bax saw an uptick in usage last week of SPL and I suspect that it will continue to see play in the weeks to come (particularly if Pao gets banned soon, as seems likely).

To close, I'll leave you all with this replay from last week's SPL, where Choice Band Baxcalibur puts on a LeBron James-esque performance and completely dismantles the opposing team, which lacked a reliable switch-in to Tera Dragon CB Glaive Rush (because there are no reliable switch-ins).

 

[TCTphantom]

Meowscarada B+ -> A-

Meowscarada is such a Swiss Army knife of a mon. The hazards lead set is great, especially with overgrow leaf storm strats. Its sash lead set is so good because you just body Great Tusk with Leaf Storm. Having the ability to set hazards and deter the best hazard removal in the tier is so great rn.

Offensive Meow is also nuts. CB can just clear out games late game with banded flower trick. Your speed tier is so good you out speed everything unboosted besides Chien Pao (for now) and Dragapult. It does such a good job revenge killing as a result. Knock off and flower trick make it surprisingly annoying to switch into. Even if you have an adequate defensive answer, they won’t appreciate a knock off to the face removing their item. Boots sets also can be a solid revenge killer and pivot. This thing is great and is at least an A- mon rn and will be after the test.

Gonna echo a few noms I agree with as well
Greninja -> A-/A
Garchomp -> A
Slowking -> A-
Baxcalibur -> B+
Scizor ->B

 

[1LDK]

The hazards lead set is great, especially with overgrow leaf storm strats. Its sash lead set is so good because you just body Great Tusk with Leaf Storm

As somebody who also supports a meowscarada rise, I haven't seen a single lead meowscarada in my life, and i didn't even know it runs leaf storm, can you post it and explain?

 

[1234hjkl]

As somebody who also supports a meowscarada rise, I haven't seen a single lead meowscarada in my life, and i didn't even know it runs leaf storm, can you post it and explain?

As someone who faced those sets I think the reasoning is: Set hazards, tusk comes in, PhysDef Tusk can survive anything Meow throws at it, it cleans hazards and depending of the moves it may have can kill you or cripple you, that's not the case with LStorm set were even uninvested -nature has a chance to OHKO. So set hazards, tusk come in, kill Tusk with LStorm, now you can set hazards and not usk to take them, profit.

 

[Dreadfury]

A few noms on my end, and they'd likely hold water regardless of whether or not Chien-Pao ends up getting banned:

A --> A+ or S-

I'm leaning more towards A+ since it's still pretty matchup-reliant, but the ostrich is starting to run Tera-Fire quite a bit now, and the sheer Tera diversity it brings to the table makes Espathra a massive presence even in the teambuilding process. The only thing that can reliably beat Espathra is Tera-Dark Unaware Clodsire (and I suppose Dozo/Dirge can run Tera-Dark as well). The mon does exactly one thing, but it's so varied in how it can accomplish that one thing and it's so excellent at doing that one thing that I think it's much better than anything in A right now. I wanted to justify bumping it up to S- specifically because of how much it impacts the teambuilding process and forces niche Tera-types on niche mons specifically because it doesn't have much in the way of baseline counterplay, but also because Grimmsnarl and Orthworm are beginning to pick up steam again thanks to how much of a reward Espathra provides if it gets in safely (which, thanks to these two mons, it generally will).

B --> A-

I don't think it's as good as it was in its prime several weeks ago, but Screens is beginning to pick up steam again thanks to jank like Espathra beginning to diversify a bit more, and as such I think a two-subrank rise is fair. That said, I also don't think it deserved to drop all the way down to B in the first place.

B- --> B+

Shed Tail may be a pretty good move. While it's no Cyclizar, Orthworm can still pretty reliably get a Shed Tail off and basically give something terrifying like Roaring Moon or Espathra a free turn to pretty much win the game altogether.

Also agreeing with the following noms:

A- --> A
Unreleased --> A-/A
A+ --> S-
B- --> B
B+ --> A-
B+ --> A-/A

EDIT: part of me wants to make a case for Golduck to be ranked somewhere. It's the only special Rain sweeper we have. But I don't have the replays to support why I want it ranked.

 

[wrockstah]

I want to nominate from D --> C.
My reasoning behind this is its typing, movepool and especially its stat distribution. It has the speed that Dengo wants and the power that Pult wants. Combining these facts with the surprise factor and you have a nice niche sweeper/scarfer/nuke, that can trouble the most viable mons in the tier.
It is definately the ghost with the worst defensive typing and the frailest out of the three though.

Here i have three high ladder replays for y'all, that show the value of Gengar and its combination of traits that i mentioned.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1792558042 --> Gar finishes the game here.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1794328198 --> Gar kills the Pao and opens up Bax.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1794946044 --> Gar kills another Pao but this replay is actually just Bax going crazy :D

And should go to B+ or even A- for its pure power and ability to check some of the big threats in the meta.

Have a nice day :)

 

[McGrrr]

The only thing that can reliably beat Espathra is Tera-Dark Unaware Clodsire

Just wanted to add that this only reliable counter is complete setup fodder for Orthworm, Espathra's partner in crime, so it is entirely possible that after burning your Tera on Clodsire to survive Espathra's onslaught, Orthworm will get another Shed Pass immediately after e.g. once Clodsire uses Tera, Espathra can bait an Earthquake into Earth Eater.

 

[Cheryl.]

Just wanted to add that this only reliable counter is complete setup fodder for Orthworm, Espathra's partner in crime, so it is entirely possible that after burning your Tera on Clodsire to survive Espathra's onslaught, Orthworm will get another Shed Pass immediately after e.g. once Clodsire uses Tera, Espathra can bait an Earthquake into Earth Eater.

Not only that, but having to burn your Tera on Clodsire, which is often tasked with checking a variety of different threats, opens up its own can of worms for the opponent to exploit. This was seen firsthand last week in SPL (Savouras vs TPP) where Tera Dark’ing on Clod to beat Espathra, which had already claimed a kill with its new Tera Fire set, ended up opening the entire team up to Iron Valiant now that the only Fairy resist left had to sacrifice its resist to beat Espathra. It’s this combination of being unpredictable to beat with Tera and how much you have to sacrifice in order to even have a chance of reliably beating it that makes Espathra clearly worth rising to at least A+ in this current meta.

also supporting Meowscarada, Hydreigon, and the funny HO mons rising. Iron Moth also deserves more discussion as it’s been seeing a lot of exploration lately, I think it’s very underrated.

 

[ogTFlame]

I have a few proposals to make based on my time laddering with this team.

C --> B-

I've had decent success with Magnezone lately thanks in part to covert cloak. This allows it to reliably switch into Garganacl if it doesn't click body press or earthquake, which many don't even run. Furthermore, Magnezone's ability to trap Corviknight and beat common mons like Toxapex, Dondozo, and Hatterene 1v1 gives it a legitimate role in the current meta. Also, the fact that mons like Skeledirge often tera into fairy or water type makes Magnezone even better. It's a great teammate for sweepers like Dragonite and Quaquaval.

B+ --> A

This is a suggestion that I've seen others propose in this thread and I couldn't agree more. Meowscarada's scarf set is arguably the best speed control in the tier due to its ability to outspeed mons like +1 Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon. This, combined with its solid movepool, makes Meowscarada a speedy attacker with few true counters. It works pretty well with Magnezone because Meowscarada threatens out mons like Great Tusk, Ting-Lu, and Gholdengo; this gives you the ability to U-turn on a switch to opposing Corviknight and trap it for an easy KO. Meowscarada's versatility becomes even more apparent when you also consider its choice band or hazard lead sets. Getting rid of screens with brick break can also be quite helpful given Grimmsnarl's presence in the meta.

B --> B+

Quaquaval is such an underrated late-game sweeper. Often times all it needs is hazards and some chip damage on its usual checks/counters to put in work. I lost count of how many times I sent this mon out on opposing Great Tusk, clicked aqua step on a switch to Rotom-W/Amoonguss/Dragapult, killed the following turn with close combat or ice spinner, and ended the game on the spot thanks to effectively having a free dragon dance. Quaquaval's typing also allows it to beat common offensive threats such as Chien-Pao and Kingambit.

 

[bludz]

-> B/B+

Pelipper is a pretty potent attacker with Specs and doesn't have drawbacks that Floatzel does (I wouldn't rise Floatzel alongside). You don't need to find a time to switch in to take advantage of rain, or to deal with recoil damage. Also, the secondary typing is a godsend defensively and offers great STAB to slap most water resists.

I'm sharing some relevant calcs of pokemon that aren't totally smashed by a water move.

Hide

(you outspeed Rotom and 2HKO, you can Tera Water to ensure the KO against a protect. Not to mention Hydro Pump chunks it)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pelipper Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash in Rain: 138-162 (45.3 - 53.2%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(boots Dondodo still hates this because you easily 3HKO thru rest)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dondozo: 223-264 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(boots Pex has only 14.8% chance to be 2HKO'd but that's cutting it pretty close)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pelipper Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 135-159 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Hurricane 2HKOs Dragonite through multiscale too.

Calcs aside, here's the other upside:

Pelipper checks all variants of Great Tusk, the most common pokemon in the tier. Defensive ones are usually outsped and blown away, and offensive ones can knock off your Specs but fall very short of KOing. From full HP, Pelipper has the defensive typing/bulk to check a ton of offensive mons and threaten to blow back many defensive pokemon. Water Absorb Clodsire and Slowking are the surefire walls, and obviously random mons can wall and/or surprise it with Terastallization, but generally Rotom or Pex (of which many aren't full spdef) are the most common answers you'll see. You can U-turn if your opponent has one of the hard stops to switch into you, but otherwise you'll generally be clicking STABs and reaping profits if you predict correctly.

 

[658Greninja]

I got a landslide of noms here folks

Rises•

A > A+: I am a firm believer that Washtom is the best pivot in the tier. Outside of teams with Clodsire, Washtom is always forcing progress through status, Hydro, and Wisp. Being one of the few ground immunes in the tier that doubles as a check/soft-check to Tusks, Dnite, Dirge, Gambit, etc. There is no archetype Washtom does not fit in outside of Stall if you pay attention to many teams on ladder or in SPL. Washtom has been proven to have customizable evs for whatever role you want it to fill. A specially defensive pivot for the ghosts and Valiant, a more offensively oriented Washtom, double status, Nasty Plot, Resto Chesto Tera Fairy to completely wall Tusks, your options are endless. Washtom does Washtom things, being annoying asf and bringing in the absolute monsters Gen 9 introduced.

A- > A+: This might seem like a big jump but I’m telling you, Chomp is the best spiker and ground type (not named Tusk ofc) in the tier. The Chain Chomp spike set has blown up as it is the only spiker besides Meow that beats Tusks 1v1 barring Tera shenanigans. Seeing play on numerous spike stacking builds over Ting-Lu. Also punishes Corv with either the Chainchomp special or punishing it with RH + Rough Skin if it tries to do anything besides press Defog or Roost. It has a variety of sets to play with like the aforementioned Chainchomp. There is Tankchomp, SD Tera Water/Dragon, even Scarf. Its typing means it can get multiple layers up againsy Volc, Washtom, Ghold, etc. We pretty much have Ferro 2.0. A wise man once said, no matter the power creep, Chomp will manage to become a top threat. No amount of Lati twins, Fairies, Tapus, Weavile, or Tusks is gonna make Chomp relevant, especially as each gen keeps giving it new toys.

B+ > A-: Meow has been making waves lately, appearing on several styles, archetypes. HO, Spike Stacking, Dark Spam, BO, etc. Its utility is starting to shine through with the limited amount of Knock Off distribution. Knock, Spikes, Taunt, it can always do something for a team. It managed to find a niche in a tier with the other fast dark type cat Chien-Pao (this statement might be dated in a few days). The increased usage of Covert Cloak in response to Garg, Boots in response to the abundance of hazards, and Dozo/Garg/Pex. All three of which Meow can dent heavily with its STABs + a Taunt vs Pex for good measure. Ironically, Meow revels in conjunction with Pao since it lures in its biggest targets and dents its best checks with Knock + U-Turn respectively. Its not a strong wallbreaker meant to rip walls apart, rather it is meant to chip them down for the real wallbrealers to tear up. Dark is a broken offensive typing and soon they will introduce a bunch of dark resists next gen like they introduced a bunch of ghost resists this gen.

B- > B/B+: Worm has been popping off lately, becoming a centerpiece of many HO teams and the substitute of Cyclizar it was meant to be (pun completely intentional). Even if at max it only gets up one or two shed tails a game, any of these shed tails are a game ender, most notably with Espathra. Defensively it checks Dnite, non-fighting stab Tusks, Pao, and Gambit while setting hazards in one slot for offense. A rarity for an offensive staple to fulfill a defensive niche.

C > C+: Just like every generation, Hippo comes back whether it is OU or UU, but we are not at that point yet but it still has a solid niche that sets it from the other grounds and the C rank. Its excellent mixed bulk, access to recovery, and neutrality to fairy sets it apart from Ting-Lu. With Phys D it soft-checks offensive Tusks, Ace, Dnite, etc. With SpD investment it can soft-check Espa, Valiant, Pult, and Dengo. The real reason I’m advocating for a raise is sand. Sand + Spikes is an infamous combination in ADV and now in a tier with more Knock Off, worse hazard control, and more spinblockers, it aids in wearing down those threats, making lefties recovery for nearly a third of the OU tier futile for 5 turns. Garg getting a massive SpD boost under sand makes it even more unkillable. Since Hippo is setting rocks, Garg is free to run Curse or other options.

C > B-: Underrated. I know it is a massive jump but do not sleep on da Zone.

(Exhibit A): Magnet Pull is its bnb. It lost alot of relevant targets, but the three steels it can trap are highly relevant ones. Corv is obvious, Gambit seems unphazed but a Tera Fighting or Ground disposes it quickly. Zone exploits Worm’s shit special bulk and either kills it or removes the possibility of a shed tail. Gambit is alot of team’s check to Meow, ghosts, Pao, and Espa, but with it gone, they can go off. Meow in particular is seeing a spike in usage, justifying a slot for Zone even more.

(Exhibit B): 130 SpA. In the same caliber as Volcanion, with STABs that hit mostly everything neutrally or super effectively. Don’t sleep on this just because Ghold has 3 points higher SpA. Garg, Dozo, Tera Fairy Dirge, Hatt, Pex, and Corv are prime victims for Zon to exploit.

(Exhibit C): Tera expands its capabilities even further. Tera Ground to run through Gambit, Ghold, Treads, and Clod. Tera Fighting for Gambit (again), and Ting-Lu, Tera Fairy cause its Tera Fairy, and Tera Flying as a big F U to Tusks.

D > C: Considering the more offensive nature of the tier, Lokix deserves a bit of respect as it does well in that mu. It has a shitton of flaws. Garbage bulk, several mons have a dual resistance to Bug, rock weakness, relies in LO/Band to support its admittedly decent 103 Atk. Though with big upsides in the meta. Alot of people regardless of skill level Tera defensively. (I.E Tera Gambit or Moon), however Lokix having Tinted Lens + STAB First Impression lets it avoid the 50/50 all together. Its speed tier is great vs Tusks, Ghold, Quaval, and most Volcs, the latter is notable considering it 2HKOs the sample set with Band Leech. With U-Turn it forms a decent voltturn core with stuff like Ace and others. Though most of its niche stems from its mu vs HO, setting it apart from its vast competition. It requires heavy support, which is why it should not go any further, but it has a notable niche that is worth considering a blue moon.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1796856511
Lokix replay 1 (vs Balance)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1796861570-zg998312n1h38am2qp8vg16tclj5j5jpw
Lokix replay 2 (vs HO)

Drops•

A > A-: Obviously still good/great but not as splashable as most of the other threats that check even more stuff. Competing for slots is becoming harsher with the overall nature of SV OU. Gambit and Meow seeing higher usage not helping matters for it either. Band Pao OHKOs it after chip and Tera. There is some potential for an offensive TR set, but as of rn, its current ranking doesn’t reflect its status.

A > A-: Though this thing is annoying asf with Tera Flying, Pao being the biggest mon rn hurts its viability by a margin. Being direct competition with it and able to rkill it regardless if it Tera’s or not. Moon’s 4mss is starting to show. It wants EQ for Gambit, it wants Roost for Garg, it wants Taunt to shutdown status attempts from Washtom and Pex, it simply can’t use all these great options at once. Dnite is also rough competition for it. Still a good sweeper that can get setup opportunities off of its many resistances and Tera.

C > UR: Going from nice to harsh here but I’m sorry. What the fuck does this thing do that its competition doesn’t? It has a million competitors for its role. Back in SS its role was either as a wallbreaker with Dark STAB that got up sand or a special wall. Whats wrong with it now? Everything. 95% of the meta has a way to threaten it; this thing has little to no switch-in opportunities. Slow bulky Wallbreakers? Look around you, you got Tusk, Gambit, and Iron Hands. Gambit in particular having way better resistances on top of 5 points higher Atk. Brand new checks in the omnipresent Tusks, Valiant, Ting-Lu, Quaval, and Dozo. Zone doesn’t have this problem since its STABs are better in this landscape and special walls are less prominent than the physical walls of this gen. A special wall with rocks and a ghost resist? FUCKING GARGANACL. Everything this thing did is either done better by other mons or absolutely gone. Its a slow ass Rock/Dark type, weak to ground/steel/fighting/fairy/water. You can offset those weaknesses with Tera, but are you gonna waste your Tera on Ttar when you have 5 other mons on the team that can use Tera and better? You get my point. Maybe Ttar will regain its OU status like it did last gen through eventual meta shifts and/or Home/DLC, but rn this is the worst Ttar has ever been.

> A/A-: Gren is a great addition to the tier. A special wallbreaker with spammable moves, a spiker that gives zero shits about Tusks/Corv, and threatens a ton of tier staples like Tusks, Ghold, Dirge, Dozo, Garg, and Chomp.

I might make a part 2 post-Pao suspect, but its not an exaggeration to say that a majority of the meta would appreciate Pao being gone.

 

[Chemical_Jackfruit]

Tauros-Paldea-Fire from B to A-

This mon makes building so much easier as its a chien-pao check which is pretty hard to find and unlike checks has the bulk and utility to back it up.
This mon isn't solely only useful against chien as intimidate allows it to check physical attackers or at least slow them down.
It has access to raging bull which removes screens which is also taunt immune making checking dangerous sweepers easier
Against bulkier teams it can spread burn which is good against everything apart from.
This may be too late since chien may hopefully get banned

 

[YNM]

I got a landslide of noms here folks

Rises•

A > A+: I am a firm believer that Washtom is the best pivot in the tier. Outside of teams with Clodsire, Washtom is always forcing progress through status, Hydro, and Wisp. Being one of the few ground immunes in the tier that doubles as a check/soft-check to Tusks, Dnite, Dirge, Gambit, etc. There is no archetype Washtom does not fit in outside of Stall if you pay attention to many teams on ladder or in SPL. Washtom has been proven to have customizable evs for whatever role you want it to fill. A specially defensive pivot for the ghosts and Valiant, a more offensively oriented Washtom, double status, Nasty Plot, Resto Chesto Tera Fairy to completely wall Tusks, your options are endless. Washtom does Washtom things, being annoying asf and bringing in the absolute monsters Gen 9 introduced.

A- > A+: This might seem like a big jump but I’m telling you, Chomp is the best spiker and ground type (not named Tusk ofc) in the tier. The Chain Chomp spike set has blown up as it is the only spiker besides Meow that beats Tusks 1v1 barring Tera shenanigans. Seeing play on numerous spike stacking builds over Ting-Lu. Also punishes Corv with either the Chainchomp special or punishing it with RH + Rough Skin if it tries to do anything besides press Defog or Roost. It has a variety of sets to play with like the aforementioned Chainchomp. There is Tankchomp, SD Tera Water/Dragon, even Scarf. Its typing means it can get multiple layers up againsy Volc, Washtom, Ghold, etc. We pretty much have Ferro 2.0. A wise man once said, no matter the power creep, Chomp will manage to become a top threat. No amount of Lati twins, Fairies, Tapus, Weavile, or Tusks is gonna make Chomp relevant, especially as each gen keeps giving it new toys.

B+ > A-: Meow has been making waves lately, appearing on several styles, archetypes. HO, Spike Stacking, Dark Spam, BO, etc. Its utility is starting to shine through with the limited amount of Knock Off distribution. Knock, Spikes, Taunt, it can always do something for a team. It managed to find a niche in a tier with the other fast dark type cat Chien-Pao (this statement might be dated in a few days). The increased usage of Covert Cloak in response to Garg, Boots in response to the abundance of hazards, and Dozo/Garg/Pex. All three of which Meow can dent heavily with its STABs + a Taunt vs Pex for good measure. Ironically, Meow revels in conjunction with Pao since it lures in its biggest targets and dents its best checks with Knock + U-Turn respectively. Its not a strong wallbreaker meant to rip walls apart, rather it is meant to chip them down for the real wallbrealers to tear up. Dark is a broken offensive typing and soon they will introduce a bunch of dark resists next gen like they introduced a bunch of ghost resists this gen.

B- > B/B+: Worm has been popping off lately, becoming a centerpiece of many HO teams and the substitute of Cyclizar it was meant to be (pun completely intentional). Even if at max it only gets up one or two shed tails a game, any of these shed tails are a game ender, most notably with Espathra. Defensively it checks Dnite, non-fighting stab Tusks, Pao, and Gambit while setting hazards in one slot for offense. A rarity for an offensive staple to fulfill a defensive niche.

C > C+: Just like every generation, Hippo comes back whether it is OU or UU, but we are not at that point yet but it still has a solid niche that sets it from the other grounds and the C rank. Its excellent mixed bulk, access to recovery, and neutrality to fairy sets it apart from Ting-Lu. With Phys D it soft-checks offensive Tusks, Ace, Dnite, etc. With SpD investment it can soft-check Espa, Valiant, Pult, and Dengo. The real reason I’m advocating for a raise is sand. Sand + Spikes is an infamous combination in ADV and now in a tier with more Knock Off, worse hazard control, and more spinblockers, it aids in wearing down those threats, making lefties recovery for nearly a third of the OU tier futile for 5 turns. Garg getting a massive SpD boost under sand makes it even more unkillable. Since Hippo is setting rocks, Garg is free to run Curse or other options.

C > B-: Underrated. I know it is a massive jump but do not sleep on da Zone.

(Exhibit A): Magnet Pull is its bnb. It lost alot of relevant targets, but the three steels it can trap are highly relevant ones. Corv is obvious, Gambit seems unphazed but a Tera Fighting or Ground disposes it quickly. Zone exploits Worm’s shit special bulk and either kills it or removes the possibility of a shed tail. Gambit is alot of team’s check to Meow, ghosts, Pao, and Espa, but with it gone, they can go off. Meow in particular is seeing a spike in usage, justifying a slot for Zone even more.

(Exhibit B): 130 SpA. In the same caliber as Volcanion, with STABs that hit mostly everything neutrally or super effectively. Don’t sleep on this just because Ghold has 3 points higher SpA. Garg, Dozo, Tera Fairy Dirge, Hatt, Pex, and Corv are prime victims for Zon to exploit.

(Exhibit C): Tera expands its capabilities even further. Tera Ground to run through Gambit, Ghold, Treads, and Clod. Tera Fighting for Gambit (again), and Ting-Lu, Tera Fairy cause its Tera Fairy, and Tera Flying as a big F U to Tusks.

D > C: Considering the more offensive nature of the tier, Lokix deserves a bit of respect as it does well in that mu. It has a shitton of flaws. Garbage bulk, several mons have a dual resistance to Bug, rock weakness, relies in LO/Band to support its admittedly decent 103 Atk. Though with big upsides in the meta. Alot of people regardless of skill level Tera defensively. (I.E Tera Gambit or Moon), however Lokix having Tinted Lens + STAB First Impression lets it avoid the 50/50 all together. Its speed tier is great vs Tusks, Ghold, Quaval, and most Volcs, the latter is notable considering it 2HKOs the sample set with Band Leech. With U-Turn it forms a decent voltturn core with stuff like Ace and others. Though most of its niche stems from its mu vs HO, setting it apart from its vast competition. It requires heavy support, which is why it should not go any further, but it has a notable niche that is worth considering a blue moon.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1796856511
Lokix replay 1 (vs Balance)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1796861570-zg998312n1h38am2qp8vg16tclj5j5jpw
Lokix replay 2 (vs HO)

Drops•

A > A-: Obviously still good/great but not as splashable as most of the other threats that check even more stuff. Competing for slots is becoming harsher with the overall nature of SV OU. Gambit and Meow seeing higher usage not helping matters for it either. Band Pao OHKOs it after chip and Tera. There is some potential for an offensive TR set, but as of rn, its current ranking doesn’t reflect its status.

A > A-: Though this thing is annoying asf with Tera Flying, Pao being the biggest mon rn hurts its viability by a margin. Being direct competition with it and able to rkill it regardless if it Tera’s or not. Moon’s 4mss is starting to show. It wants EQ for Gambit, it wants Roost for Garg, it wants Taunt to shutdown status attempts from Washtom and Pex, it simply can’t use all these great options at once. Dnite is also rough competition for it. Still a good sweeper that can get setup opportunities off of its many resistances and Tera.

C > UR: Going from nice to harsh here but I’m sorry. What the fuck does this thing do that its competition doesn’t? It has a million competitors for its role. Back in SS its role was either as a wallbreaker with Dark STAB that got up sand or a special wall. Whats wrong with it now? Everything. 95% of the meta has a way to threaten it; this thing has little to no switch-in opportunities. Slow bulky Wallbreakers? Look around you, you got Tusk, Gambit, and Iron Hands. Gambit in particular having way better resistances on top of 5 points higher Atk. Brand new checks in the omnipresent Tusks, Valiant, Ting-Lu, Quaval, and Dozo. Zone doesn’t have this problem since its STABs are better in this landscape and special walls are less prominent than the physical walls of this gen. A special wall with rocks and a ghost resist? FUCKING GARGANACL. Everything this thing did is either done better by other mons or absolutely gone. Its a slow ass Rock/Dark type, weak to ground/steel/fighting/fairy/water. You can offset those weaknesses with Tera, but are you gonna waste your Tera on Ttar when you have 5 other mons on the team that can use Tera and better? You get my point. Maybe Ttar will regain its OU status like it did last gen through eventual meta shifts and/or Home/DLC, but rn this is the worst Ttar has ever been.

> A/A-: Gren is a great addition to the tier. A special wallbreaker with spammable moves, a spiker that gives zero shits about Tusks/Corv, and threatens a ton of tier staples like Tusks, Ghold, Dirge, Dozo, Garg, and Chomp.

I might make a part 2 post-Pao suspect, but its not an exaggeration to say that a majority of the meta would appreciate Pao being gone.

I agree with everything except for Lokix and Hippo. I still believe that the sheer abundance of Tusk and Valiant, and even other mons like Volc and Garchomp is just too detrimental to the viability of Lokix in the tier, often resulting in it not doing quite that much and ending up mainly as a U-turn spammer that eventually falls to hazards, another key element of the current meta. It's so easy to chip it away that it rarely becomes a problem to face, although sometimes it does hit pretty hard with Band, and its average speed makes it an easy target for Revenge Killers.
I don't even know what to say about Hippo cause I've never seen it around, and quite frankly I'm not surprised. There are tons of better hazard setters, tons of better walls and tons of better sleep spammers, the only niche it has would be from Sand but it's a pretty irrelevant weather right now, besides boosting Garg as you've said. It would be so much better if only it still had access to Toxic.

 

[fly casanova]

UR -> C+
--------------------------------
wo-chien unironically has a niche in OU as a member of bulky offense / tank cores, utilizing its solid support movepool and excellent bulk to be a consistent thorn in unprepared opponents' sides.

(post pao and espathra ban edit: nominating to C+ over C in light of these bans. the threat of an ice move from pao often forced premature teras, whereas espathra punished teraing at all and generally shut down wo after the initial knock. with both gone, i feel that wo can more comfortably maintain a C+ ranking)

(credit to touhoku for the set)

Wo-Chien @ Leftovers
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Protect
- Leech Seed

the set is simple enough. max hp/def complements its tablets of ruin ability, allowing it to take physical hits with ease. its natural bulk - 85 HP, 135 spdef - covers the special side.

knock off is a much more valuable asset with its learnset reduced, and the combo of giga drain + leech seed + protect offers a significant amount of passive recovery. it might not seem like much at first, but in gen9's faster, more offensive, recovery-nerfed meta, the ability to heal yourself while damaging the opponent means you pine less for recover than you would if it was gen8 and recover still had 16 pp.

tera poison is great on a lot of defensive mons, including wo for three key reasons: fighting resistance, u-turn resistance, and toxic immunity. this flips its weaknesses and can make it a very long-lasting tank.

wo shines as a hard stop to many of the tier's offensive threats, particularly after tera. the ability to wall something and either get a knock or start the leech seed > protect > giga drain > protect cycle is great, allowing you to neutralize or 1v1 things that think they can out-damage you. it plays sorta like dirge in the sense that, while you think you should beat it, it simply refuses to die.

even if you don't tera, resistances to water, electric, grass, ground, ghost, and dark are very useful. yeah, dark/grass isn't ideal, but wo is bulky enough to eat hits if it has to and knock or leech in return.

random calcs showing surprising bulk

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Tera Poison Wo-Chien: 156-184 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Wo-Chien: 118-141 (31.6 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tablets of Ruin Wo-Chien: 216-254 (57.9 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Poison Wo-Chien: 180-212 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Skeledirge Torch Song vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Wo-Chien: 146-174 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I can't sit here and pretend like wo deserves to be insanely high-tier, since it requires more team support than others who may fit in its slot - it faces stiff competition from the likes of ting-lu and amoongus (and something like garg to a lesser extent). however, it certainly brings enough to the table to differentiate itself and warrant a ranking somewhere.

it doesn't quite have tingy's monstrous bulk or its hazards, but it can knock off and has better recovery with leech + giga drain. it doesn't have the simple longevity amoongus does with regenerator, but it can knock and has better 1v1 potential. its base 70 speed is also much better than both, hitting 176 uninvested. this is crucial with dirge, kingambit, azu, iron hands, and others creeping into that range - minimal EV investment ensures you move first and can 1v1 these threats in ways tingy and among gus can't.

it can also scout with protect, which is becoming increasingly important with all the strong af choiced mons running around, and has access to a wide pool of other support moves like ruination, stun spore, mean look, taunt, and screens. this simple defensive set is just the start - the meta is still young and I bet there's tons of creative ways to use this guy to his fullest potential.

TLDR: memes aside, wo-chien has merit. not metagame-defining merit, but its bulk, movepool, resistances to key moves like hydro pump, eq, spore, shadow ball, and crunch, and ability to tera if opportune, allows it a niche that competitors like ting-lu or amoongus can't quite match. imo, enough merit to show the snail some love.

replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1797079627-5pu2era9mihpis4qax2in95bau9ydgspw
wo comes in and cleans up against gambit, gholdengo, breloom, and more.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1797407641-466c5yx3z4z49ddol1r8m3ll4o0b2pupw
wo simply sits on tusk, valiant, and more, refusing to die.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1797396305-ysdm16h69dmpc7w7hil09twtx2jzrlypw
even with salt cure and no lefties, wo is able to outlast gholden and tusk, pulling its weight alongside dirge to win.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1797796880-w34ss07nshggy1j5vnn5ygvmkoubsh7pw
wo outspeeds iron hands and eats yummy hits like it's nothing, then outlasts a +4 hawlucha to secure the win.

 

[Finchinator]

Removed Chien-Pao due to it being banned. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ss-round-2-voting.3716014/page-7#post-9504408

 

[Ruft]

Removed Espathra due to it being banned. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/espathra-is-banned-from-sv-ou.3716059/

 

[Magcargo]

Removed Garganacl due to it being banned. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/garganacl-is-banned-from-sv-ou.3716059/

 

[Red Raven]

Removed Garganacl due to it being banned. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/garganacl-is-banned-from-sv-ou.3716059/

Jesus fucking christ

Hide

I actually fell for this lmao

 

[wrockstah]

I want to nom from B to A-.
Now that Pao is gone Bax is a fine replacement as a strong Ice-Breaker. It got traction even before the ban was through. Its ability to break all kinds of defensive mons is insane and it has many sets to make progress in every game. Band and DD variants are fine and really good but the set that worked best for me was SD. Beside breaking fat mons its ability to threaten strong offensive mons with Ice shard is a nice bonus to account for and having Glaive Rush is a blessing for this mon.

 

[Nickos]

Nominating from B+ to A-/A (also my first nom at anything ever)

: I would have agreed that Meowscarada is a B/B+ rank threat if its main sets were still Choice Scarf/Band, but not only that's far from the truth now, with sets such as HDB Overgrow, Sash with Spikes+Leaf Storm as lead sets, and more popping out with pretty tangible success be it at ladder or tourney matches, it has also gotten significantly better with Chien-Pao's ban, removing competition in the form of a speedy physical offensive threat, while also making Meowscarada's base 123 Speed tier even more valuable, as it is now the second fastest OU Pokémon in the current metagame, right behind Dragapult.

All in all, I believe B+ rank is underselling Meowscarada's capabilities quite a bit, as even before Pao's and Espathra's bans, Meowscarada was definitely not on the same level as mons like Scizor, Slowking or Iron Threads even. While jumping 2 ranks at once may seem excessive, this is taking into account that Meow was already getting quite a bit better since it rose to B+, while at the same time massively benefiting from the latest bans eliminating Pokémon that it struggled to deal with.

Other noms I support:

UR -> C+
Wo-Chien is not complete garbage as I once thought, and I can 100% see it around the C ranks at the very least, I'd say it could easily be around the same level as Slowbro as a defensive mon currently, it is legitimately quite bulky and can be very annoying to face with either Knock Off and Leech Seed being constantly thrown around.
Unreleased --> A-
A- --> A/A+
B -> B+
Legitimately scary mon when it gets going
A --> A+

 

[lolgod3]

Nominating Iron Treads for C+ rank
Treads is so hot garbage, it is extremely terrible and outclassed at everything it does
As a fast spinner it's 106 speed is not that useful since the only relevant things you outspeed is Pawmot and Garchomp, Great Tusk can run max speed to outspeed the Rotom forms and Glimmora so that's not helpful
As a fast offensive mon it doesn't even use its steel-type STAB most of the time, and Great Tusk is better with HLR + CC. It's better against Valiant, who could click CC and you just instantly die.
As a pivot with Volt Switch, it is outclassed by the 3 protean starters and Dragapult, who has U-turn, while Rotom forms have a far stronger volt switch.
As a rocks setter, just use literally anything else lol
There is NO WAY that it should EVER be considered to be equals to the likes of Breloom, Iron Moth, and Meowscarada. In fact, I feel like C+ might be a bit too high for it. Sure, there are some people who say it is good, and I even tried using it a lot, but it has disappointed me in every single case where I used it. Heck, even it's access to knock off isn't that special, since Meowscarada outclasses it at that.
This mon deserves to drop to UU just like its fellow future paradox mons Hands, Thorns, and Jugulis. Being outclassed and beaten by all the best mons in the meta is not a nice place to be.

Alright, rant over, time to nom some more mons that'll be hopefully less controversial.
Arboliva UR –> C/C+ (Don't want to jump the gun with this, but if this goes through I might have another rant about how it's great)
Dragapult A+ –> S- (Direct result of Pao ban)
Both Tauros Forms B/B- –> C+ (Direct result of Pao ban)
Orthworm B- –> C+ (Espa banned means it loses one of its main partners)
Clodsire A- –> A (Direct result of Pao ban)
Skeledirge A –> A- (Direct result of Espa / Pao ban)
Ceruledge B –> B+ (Direct result of Espa / Pao ban)
Scizor B+ –> B (Direct result of Pao ban)

Yes Pao is that centralising