Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

[Shandeur]

A -> A+
Corviknight has nearly zero competition as both a defog user and defensive flying-type. Like SS, it's still a great pivot / check for powerful threats such as Dragonite and Roaring Moon. Things that can threaten it out, such as Iron Valiant can't switch in due to taking damage from Brave Bird, or U-turned out into a counter.

 

[Goodbye & Thanks]

B —> B+ or possibly A-
I feel like Pex being in B tier and the general perception of it being low may largely be the result of something akin to the opposite of new toy syndrome. Sure, Pex is probably as weak as it’s ever been by virtue of losing Scald and Knock Off, but it’s still Pex with its absurdly good bulk and solid defensive typing. Haze is always important and with Toxic becoming more scarce, Pex having access to it in some ways counterbalances it losing Scald and Knock. Toxic Spikes have become more prevalent than they were in essentially any previous metagame, largely due to Glimmora, so having a TSpikes absorber in Pex is always nice. Also, if the use of Covert Cloak does pick up as an anti-Garganacl tech, Pex would likely be one of the best users of it since historically Pex has functioned well without an item or with more niche items like Eject Button, Payapa Berry, or Shed Shell for Magma Storm Tran. I know that you can make a case that Clodsire overshadows Pex, and they do fill similar roles, but Pex being able to scout more effectively thanks to Regenerator is a big boon for Balance teams. I could honestly see Pex rising to something like A- in the future as the tier seems to become more hospitable to bulkier teams, and this is anecdotal but I do feel like Pex is being used more by high ladder or known tournament players, but I think that a more modest increase to B+ may be more suitable at the moment.

Edit: I didn’t realize that zS had already made pretty much the same nomination, so I apologize for not looking back at previous posts more carefully, but I’ll leave mine up as an endorsement of their nomination.

 

[viivian]

so when's the next VR update? surely it's coming soon considering the recent bans, right?

 

[Venduria]

Dragalge - UR > C

Honestly Dragalge has felt pretty useful as a bulky pivot or a nuke. I've posted a few times regarding Dragalge in other threads but it honestly pulls its weight and lures a lot of threats.

Dragalge @ Assault Vest / Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball

252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 434-514 (107.4 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even without Specs you can lure Garganacl with some chip and blow past it, or guarantee the OHKO with Specs. Obviously Specs will guarantee OHKOs that you otherwise wouldn't achieve without it, but AV lets you blanket check a ton of threats. TBolt is for common switches like Toxapex and Corviknight, while Focus Blast is mostly for Kingambit on the switch since it resists Dragon and Poison and thinks its a safe switch to start setting up. Shadow Ball is for Gholdengo if you need to fill that gap.

Dragalge depending on your set 1v1s important threats like Iron Moth and Volcarona, and can lure a ton of threats like Garganacl, Skeledirge, Gholdengo, Kingambit, etc. Most special attackers it can directly contest with AV with a safe switch in, and can dismantle more passive teams with Specs.

A few calcs:
Volcarona
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tera Water Dragalge: 118-140 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tera Water Dragalge: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 242-286 (64.8 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If Volcarona Tera Grass Sludge Bomb will do the same with Adaptability. Dragalge can switch and win the 1v1 on both bulky and glass Volcarona.

Iron Moth
+1 252+ SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Dragalge: 97-115 (29 - 34.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (I'm not sure the best way to account for Booster Energy since it's technically not a full +1 bonus, but you get the point)
252+ SpA Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Moth: 154-182 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Moth: 346-410 (114.9 - 136.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Iron Moth uses Agility on the switch then you just get a free turn to nuke it or something. You wall its entire moveset without Terastall so you can reserve your Tera for another mon or catch something being lured on the inevitable switch. For example Garganacl dies to Dragon Pulse into Tera Water Hydro Pump even with full investment.

Skeledirge
8 SpA Skeledirge Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Dragalge: 80-96 (23.9 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 326-384 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 308-364 (74.9 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Any Skeledirge thinking it can set up on Dragalge just outright loses to Tera. If Skeledirge already went Tera Fairy then Sludge Bomb handles it without issue.

You'd want to play Dragalge almost exclusively on Balance or BO, but it catches a few important mons and Specs is a solid nuke that I haven't even begun to explore as deeply as I should. It struggles with the plethora of physical ground mons since it can't switch on them safely, but can lure and OHKO both Iron Treads and Great Tusks with Tera Water after a sack or slow U-Turn from something like Corviknight.

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Dragalge: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 622-734 (167.6 - 197.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Dragalge: 160-190 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 504-594 (157 - 185%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Couple replays because my tired ass keeps forgetting to save them:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1766962443 simple example of luring the Garganacl and causing an immediate forfeit
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1767545889 Dragalge absorbing Toxic Debris and pivoting, taking a wisp, and finishing off 2 threats while chunking Kingambit for a Tusk clean up
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1768520544 Absorbs Toxic Debris twice and deals with Glimmora, also held as a contingency plan that I 100% knew can 1v1 Sandy Shocks if no one else could given Sun boosting speed had it outspeed everything else

I'll add more replays tomorrow when I ladder after work.

 

[JoeMama]

B-->B/B+

While still generally a more niche pick no more Cyclizar means literally no competition as a shed tail user. Whilst it does die to many special attacks its physical bulk is quite nice coupled with its many resists and only 2 weaknesses unless Mold Breaker is in play. Worse than Cyclizar but that doesn't exist anymore which is why I believe this deserves a slight rise as a result.

 

[Esca D. Sulphate]

to C

With funny fish out of the tier, I see very little reason to use TTar anymore. Most of its defensive niche is done better by Ting-Lu and even Garganacl. Band can still break on paper, but in practice is so so prediction reliant with Tusk and Ting-Lu around and it's merely one of many powerful options for breaking in OU currently. I'd even argue that without Chi-Yu around the Band set is done better by Iron Thorns now, which has Electric STAB to hit Dondozo way harder and slightly higher speed to offset the lack of defensive value.

It feels harsh to completely unrank TTar and on paper it still looks better than some of the dogshit down in D, as it still has a small niche of weather disrupter that still hits decently hard (then again it's not actually dealing with any of the Rain mons and Sun teams usually have a Tusk to ruin its day) but I would honestly not even bother building with it anymore outside of very specific squads.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

View attachment 482784B-->B/B+

While still generally a more niche pick no more Cyclizar means literally no competition as a shed tail user. Whilst it does die to many special attacks its physical bulk is quite nice coupled with its many resists and only 2 weaknesses unless Mold Breaker is in play. Worse than Cyclizar but that doesn't exist anymore which is why I believe this deserves a slight rise as a result.

I am glad this got posted because frankly I think the Worm is greatly underrated.
252 HP 252+ Def 4 Speed
Sitrus Berry
I run
Body Press
Iron Defense
Shed Tail
Spikes or Stealth Rock depending on the Team.

Not only is it a shad Tail User, can someone who doubts it usefulness Tell me: How does DD Dragonite and Garchomp get past it? They are common and fodder.

Also Slow Shed Tail is really good. Chien Pao is truly evil, as well as Mold Breaker Haxorus.

I am experimenting with Teratypes aswell and I think Ghost is crazy for walling some Variants of Great Tusk

 

[Venduria]

to C

With funny fish out of the tier, I see very little reason to use TTar anymore. Most of its defensive niche is done better by Ting-Lu and even Garganacl. Band can still break on paper, but in practice is so so prediction reliant with Tusk and Ting-Lu around and it's merely one of many powerful options for breaking in OU currently. I'd even argue that without Chi-Yu around the Band set is done better by Iron Thorns now, which has Electric STAB to hit Dondozo way harder and slightly higher speed to offset the lack of defensive value.

It feels harsh to completely unrank TTar and on paper it still looks better than some of the dogshit down in D, as it still has a small niche of weather disrupter that still hits decently hard (then again it's not actually dealing with any of the Rain mons and Sun teams usually have a Tusk to ruin its day) but I would honestly not even bother building with it anymore outside of very specific squads.

While I agree with the drop, I think the fact that it has better matchups into Dragapult and Gholdengo is worth noting, specifically because of the Sand SpD boost and STAB Crunch. 0 investment CB Tyranitar lives Gholdengo MiR and easily OHKOs with Crunch for example. I think Sand in general just doesn't have good abusers and as a result just isn't an archetype worth building around, meaning Tyranitar loses value and synergy with other mons. TWave is pretty fun tech on HDB variants but sadly most switch ins are Ground type and Great Tusk is everywhere and COMPLETELY dumpsters every Tyranitar set that doesn't rely on strange Tera options that lose Rock Sand SpD boosts.

 

[callforjudgement]

Not only is it a shad Tail User, can someone who doubts it usefulness Tell me: How does DD Dragonite and Garchomp get past it? They are common and fodder.

When I've been running DD Dragonite, I've discovered that I have to use Fire Punch in order to avoid being walled by things like Corviknight. This one's a pretty interesting damage calc:

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Orthworm: 154-182 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO

If both Pokémon are healthy, the Dragonite will win first, although it takes four hits if you have no item and spam Iron Defence (which in practice likely means six hits through Sitrus Berry). Dragonite resists Body Press, though (it has no reason to Tera against a Steel-type), and even at +6 Def, Body Press is only a 3HKO back on Dragonite if it's running HP (and usually a 2HKO if it isn't). So this is incredibly close in a fully healthy matchup, where you switched in as Dragonite Dragon Danced and neither of you took damage – the outcome will depend on the Dragonite's EV spread and item, and whether you get critted or burned as you're trying to power up Body Press, and possibly even damage ranges. (That said, even if you end up trading your Orthworm for the Dragonite, that's probably a positive outcome!)

The issue is, of course, that it's rare for both Pokémon to be fully healthy, with rocks and various chip damage both ways, and the possibility that you've used Shed Tail already. So it's an incredibly complicated matchup that's hard to fully analyze – my suspicion is that if Orthworm is the best Dragonite check on your team, your optimal strategy is to sacrifice something to weaken the Dragonite and then use the Orthworm to revenge kill, which isn't the outcome you'd really want from something that's on your team for the purpose of dealing with Dragonite, but might be enough sometimes.

Orthworm does of course beat Dragonites who have nothing but not-very-effective moves against it, but then so does Corviknight (unless Dragonite has Roost), and so does Air Balloon Gholdengo, which are both used commonly enough that the Dragonite will have to keep them in mind. In general, Orthworm seems pretty much strictly inferior to Corviknight in all respects other than Shed Tail, and if it sheds its tail that severely hampers its ability as a wall, so I suspect it's only going to be viable in OU on teams where its one (or possibly two against some teams) Shed Tail is going to be strong enough to swing a match.

As a consequence, I'm not convinced that Orthworm should rise in viability – if it does, it'll only be a consequence of being the only Shed Tail user we have left, rather than anything based on its defensive prowess.

 

[Critaquil]

in wake of the recent bans, I have a few noms:

B --->A-
cycle and ape leaving as a massive poon for pex, since it's much more difficult now to punnish its massive passivity, it's lack of real need for an item means it can get away with running covert cloak making it a great answer to garganacl and its massive bulk + haze and toxic let it reliably check a number of dangerous setup sweepers

A ---> A+
garga appreciates the reduced presence of substitute in the tier and is quickly rising as a premier rocker and defensive threat, one worthy of being A+ at least

A- ---> A
skeledirge is doing very well in a meta without chi-yu, letting it be a dangerous yet tanky mon that can be difficult to switch into, unaware also lets it check many of the setup heavy metagame

other noms I agree with:
from B to C
from B- to B+

 

[Boybobka]

UR to S-/A+
In my opinion, cinderace is a pretty dangerous Pokemon in Gen 9, while libreo got nerfed to work only once, pyro ball doesn't activate it. Cinderace can be really good on defensive/stall teams as a Pokemon who can get rid of entry hazards and threatens Gholdengo with a pyro ball or sucker punch especially against choice scarf Gholden, since court change isn't blocked by Good As Gold unlike rapid spin/defog/mortal spin (the same goes for maushold's tidy up, but Maushold isn't as good in comparison), it can easily switch out the hazards, even on a terastalized Gholden who now resists Cinderace.
Overall, I think Cinderace can be a good anti-Gholdengo Pokemon, as its pyro ball is extremely deadly, it's got great speed, and libreo is still good enough, not as broken in Gen 8, but Cinderace still can be a relatively threatening Pokemon.

 

[pika pal]

View attachment 482913UR to S-/A+
In my opinion, cinderace is a pretty dangerous Pokemon in Gen 9, while libreo got nerfed to work only once, pyro ball doesn't activate it. Cinderace can be really good on defensive/stall teams as a Pokemon who can get rid of entry hazards and threatens Gholdengo with a pyro ball or sucker punch especially against choice scarf Gholden, since court change isn't blocked by Good As Gold unlike rapid spin/defog/mortal spin (the same goes for maushold's tidy up, but Maushold isn't as good in comparison), it can easily switch out the hazards, even on a terastalized Gholden who now resists Cinderace.
Overall, I think Cinderace can be a good anti-Gholdengo Pokemon, as its pyro ball is extremely deadly, it's got great speed, and libreo is still good enough, not as broken in Gen 8, but Cinderace still can be a relatively threatening Pokemon.

I think it would be ideal to highlight other positive match-ups Cinderace bears in OU if you want to advocate as high as the A+/S- range, the latter especially containing inarguably the most influential presences in the game short of Gholdengo whom you brought up.

I also don't think Defense/Stall is the place Cinderace shines here because while it beats Gholdengo and can Hazard-control like Great Tusk, unlike Tusk it offers absolutely no Defensive utility or synergy to the team whilst focusing on offensive pressure that it probably wants more capitalization on.

 

[mothra_moth]

This is my first post here and I've been wanting to cook on this for awhile.

B- -> B

Since losing Annihilape as a bulky bulk up user that can put things into the grave, along with having some of the strongest unboosted priority in the game, Slither Wing feels slept on in comparison to it's counterparts in Volcarona, who's still slaughtering stuff as it has since Gen 5 and its underwhelming future descendant in Iron Moth. It also utilizes Tera well, with the common typing for me at least, being fire to get stab on Flare Blitz or Flame Charge (which has a use on it to dish out a bit of damage while boosting it's own mediocre speed). If you lack either of the fire type moves though, you can still touch threats like Gholdengo by using Earthquake on non Air Balloon variants, Great Tusk using the Acrobatics which gets boosted upon using Booster Energy (or Dual Wingbeat if you want to run Band), and Tera-Normal Dnite and Chien-Pao using Close Combat.
The main issues it faces are Corviknight and Dragapult, where, for the Corvi matchup, you must rely on getting a Bulk Up off (two if you want to survive a Brave Bird at full HP with no investment), and using Flare Blitz and praying to god it actually kills it if you use the move with one Bulk Up.
It's not on the level of other high tier Pokemon in this tier, but it definitely has a niche with it's Bulk Up and Band sets, but it's important for the user of it to realize it's own limits.

-calcs for fun-
Against Corv
(one Bulk Up)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 364-430 (91.2 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Slither Wing: 372-444 (119.6 - 142.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(two Bulk Ups)
+2 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 486-574 (121.8 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Slither Wing: 280-336 (90 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Against Gholdengo
252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 366-432 (96.8 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
(one Bulk Up)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 546-644 (144.4 - 170.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 456-538 (120.6 - 142.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Against Great Tusk
(One Bulk Up)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 380-448 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(One Bulk Up against Phys Defense Great Tusk)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk: 220-260 (50.6 - 59.9%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I know this calc isn't TOO impressive but Tusk has 135 base defense so it has to mean something.

Good moth.

 

[fly casanova]

This is my first post here and I've been wanting to cook on this for awhile.


View attachment 482915B- -> B

Since losing Annihilape as a bulky bulk up user that can put things into the grave, along with having some of the strongest unboosted priority in the game, Slither Wing feels slept on in comparison to it's counterparts in Volcarona, who's still slaughtering stuff as it has since Gen 5 and its underwhelming future descendant in Iron Moth. It also utilizes Tera well, with the common typing for me at least, being fire to get stab on Flare Blitz or Flame Charge (which has a use on it to dish out a bit of damage while boosting it's own mediocre speed). If you lack either of the fire type moves though, you can still touch threats like Gholdengo by using Earthquake on non Air Balloon variants, Great Tusk using the Acrobatics which gets boosted upon using Booster Energy (or Dual Wingbeat if you want to run Band), and Tera-Normal Dnite and Chien-Pao using Close Combat.
The main issues it faces are Corviknight and Dragapult, where, for the Corvi matchup, you must rely on getting a Bulk Up off (two if you want to survive a Brave Bird at full HP with no investment), and using Flare Blitz and praying to god it actually kills it if you use the move with one Bulk Up.
It's not on the level of other high tier Pokemon in this tier, but it definitely has a niche with it's Bulk Up and Band sets, but it's important for the user of it to realize it's own limits.

-calcs for fun-
Against Corv
(one Bulk Up)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 364-430 (91.2 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Slither Wing: 372-444 (119.6 - 142.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(two Bulk Ups)
+2 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 486-574 (121.8 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Slither Wing: 280-336 (90 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Against Gholdengo
252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 366-432 (96.8 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
(one Bulk Up)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 546-644 (144.4 - 170.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 456-538 (120.6 - 142.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Against Great Tusk
(One Bulk Up)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 380-448 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(One Bulk Up against Phys Defense Great Tusk)
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Slither Wing Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk: 220-260 (50.6 - 59.9%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I know this calc isn't TOO impressive but Tusk has 135 base defense so it has to mean something.

Good moth.

I’d like to build on your thoughts by acknowledging Slither Wing’s defensive profile as well. It’s a great Tusk answer, resisting both of its stabs and pivoting out or Wisping it in return.

Bug/Fighting is a surprisingly solid defensive type right now, eating Crunch/Sucker from Pao/Gambit, EQ from Tusk/Chomp/Tingy, CC from everything, U-Turn from everything, etc.

Plus, Morning Sun for longevity. I think it’s a super versatile mon with a lot of interesting sets/potential, both offensively and defensively.

Relevant replay of it countering Tusk and checking Kingambit

 

[penguinsingh337]

C to C+/B-
With Chi-yu now banned, Imo Charizard is alot viable now on sun teams as their nuke. While its true sun teams are quite fringe and hard to pull of consistently, they are a team style that works quite decently. Charizard is a great choice on sun teams because choice specs + solar power alongside tera fire does alot of damage like


252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Tera Fire Charizard Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge in Sun: 365-430 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Tera Fire Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sun: 326-384 (80.6 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Tera Fire Charizard Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 206-243 (67.7 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Tera Fire Charizard Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo in Sun: 413-486 (81.9 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Now it is true that charizard is weak to Stealth rocks which hampers its abilty to switch in safely, but sun teams often run great tusk which is the best spinner in the tier and the fact that great tusk also loves the sun due to protosynthesis getting activated. Corvknight can defog away rocks and even let zard switch come in via u-turn. In most games, zard can easily claim 1-2 KOs which is advantageous. Charizard's speed of 100 is also quite decent meaning it can fire of its attacks.

Charizard's main issues aside from is 4x stealth rock weakness is that it can be forced out by pokemon like Chien-Pao and garchomp(tho none of them want to switch into zard safely at all) and also its low bulk meaning its not contributing to the team defensively aside from maybe being able to switch into great tusks's headlong rush. Also Charizard needing Tera fire to really do that stuplyifying damage can be questionable as well.

Overall I am not saying charizard is a an excellent pokemon, but its a quite decent mon under sun teams and Imo sun teams are decent enough and when using sun, charizard should be considered.

 

[Athyestic]

View attachment 482724
Dragalge - UR > C

Honestly Dragalge has felt pretty useful as a bulky pivot or a nuke. I've posted a few times regarding Dragalge in other threads but it honestly pulls its weight and lures a lot of threats.

Dragalge @ Assault Vest / Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball

252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 294-346 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 434-514 (107.4 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even without Specs you can lure Garganacl with some chip and blow past it, or guarantee the OHKO with Specs. Obviously Specs will guarantee OHKOs that you otherwise wouldn't achieve without it, but AV lets you blanket check a ton of threats. TBolt is for common switches like Toxapex and Corviknight, while Focus Blast is mostly for Kingambit on the switch since it resists Dragon and Poison and thinks its a safe switch to start setting up. Shadow Ball is for Gholdengo if you need to fill that gap.

Dragalge depending on your set 1v1s important threats like Iron Moth and Volcarona, and can lure a ton of threats like Garganacl, Skeledirge, Gholdengo, Kingambit, etc. Most special attackers it can directly contest with AV with a safe switch in, and can dismantle more passive teams with Specs.

A few calcs:
Volcarona
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tera Water Dragalge: 118-140 (35.3 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tera Water Dragalge: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 242-286 (64.8 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If Volcarona Tera Grass Sludge Bomb will do the same with Adaptability. Dragalge can switch and win the 1v1 on both bulky and glass Volcarona.

Iron Moth
+1 252+ SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Dragalge: 97-115 (29 - 34.4%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (I'm not sure the best way to account for Booster Energy since it's technically not a full +1 bonus, but you get the point)
252+ SpA Adaptability Dragalge Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Moth: 154-182 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Moth: 346-410 (114.9 - 136.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Iron Moth uses Agility on the switch then you just get a free turn to nuke it or something. You wall its entire moveset without Terastall so you can reserve your Tera for another mon or catch something being lured on the inevitable switch. For example Garganacl dies to Dragon Pulse into Tera Water Hydro Pump even with full investment.

Skeledirge
8 SpA Skeledirge Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Dragalge: 80-96 (23.9 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 326-384 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 308-364 (74.9 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Any Skeledirge thinking it can set up on Dragalge just outright loses to Tera. If Skeledirge already went Tera Fairy then Sludge Bomb handles it without issue.

You'd want to play Dragalge almost exclusively on Balance or BO, but it catches a few important mons and Specs is a solid nuke that I haven't even begun to explore as deeply as I should. It struggles with the plethora of physical ground mons since it can't switch on them safely, but can lure and OHKO both Iron Treads and Great Tusks with Tera Water after a sack or slow U-Turn from something like Corviknight.

252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Dragalge: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 622-734 (167.6 - 197.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Dragalge: 160-190 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Adaptability Tera Water Dragalge Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 504-594 (157 - 185%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Couple replays because my tired ass keeps forgetting to save them:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1766962443 simple example of luring the Garganacl and causing an immediate forfeit
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1767545889 Dragalge absorbing Toxic Debris and pivoting, taking a wisp, and finishing off 2 threats while chunking Kingambit for a Tusk clean up

I'll add more replays tomorrow when I ladder after work.
View attachment 482724

Seconding this, I’ve been using Dragalge to decent success as a breaker and it’s been really quite excellent, the number of Pokémon that just drop to your stabs is insane.
If you’re going to run specs, however, here’s a slightly more optimized set:
Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Focus Blast
- Toxic Spikes
This outspeeds all Pokémon trying to creep Corviknight, which lets you reliably 2hko Iron Hands and Corviknight itself with Tera boosted Draco Meteor.

 

[JoeMama]

[/QUOTE]
"As a consequence, I'm not convinced that Orthworm should rise in viability – if it does, it'll only be a consequence of being the only Shed Tail user we have left, rather than anything based on its defensive prowess."
Tbf thats my entire reason behind nomming it and the utiltiy to beat none fire punch Dnite and fang chomp is nice (although it could be fire blast).

 

[viivian]

now that chi-yu is no longer in the tier, i'd like to nominate a pokemon i wouldn't have even considered nomming otherwise
A -> A+
it holds so much of the tier together and it just does it so well. the amount of support corviknight provides is invaluable to most teams, it remains as one of the only defoggers in the game and is by far the best one, and it has the bulk and defensive typing to check/counter the vast majority of the current metagame. it can serve as a check to the likes of great tusk, chien-pao, dragonite, (physical) iron valiant, roaring moon, kingambit, garchomp, azumarill, breloom, and so much more, in addition to providing all of these pokemon with free switch-ins thanks to its slow u-turn bringing them in safely. it's just so good as a defensive pivot right now thanks to how the meta predominantly favors physical attackers for corviknight to keep in check. and while gholdengo countering corviknight is certainly not good considering its prevalence, it can always pivot out to a pokemon that threatens it such as great tusk or dragapult and force gholdengo out. even if the haunted cheese string denies corviknight's defog attempts, it still can function well as a slow, defensive pivot for its teammates who really appreciate its support. all in all, it is a great pokemon in the current metagame due to its defensive and supportive capabilities and is one deserving of a rise to A+

 

[Hot N Cold]

After I have been playing the tier a bit for fun during my holidays those are my hot takes (I pretty much agree with most on this vr list btw).

from S- to S+: Gholdengo & Tusk are arguable best non-broken pokemon in the tier. Great Tusk is so versatile that is extremely easy to fit on any kind of built and playstyle. Best hazard removal in the tier, great balance between power and bulk with a decent speed, dual stab with 120 bp that covers every pokemon except air ballon gholdengo and flying types (knock off/ice spinner). Knock Off is really valuable this gen because few topnotch pokemon learn it. Amazing wallbreaker with Choice Band, wincon with BU set, decent revenge killer with Choice Scarf, even on certain games can sweep in late game thanks to rapid spin speed boost + Tera. Protosynthesis is an excellent ability to use it under sun builds as physical tank or wallbreaker. Great Tusk can do everything that you need on your team, from a full defensive set on your stall or fat balance to band/scarf/lo sets on more offensive builds.

from A+ to A: even if Espathra is potentially a broken pokemon in the tier, its a bit fish matchup and also requires certain support like Shed Tail (before got banned), Grimmsnarl screens support, extremely dangerous pokemon but requires to teambuild around it and certain condictions (screens, a good backbone support, etc). Fits better on A than A+ rank imo

from A to A+: best defensive tera user in the tier. I don't think is broken but I can see why some people complains about it, fits well from stall to bulky offensive and always puts work on against any kind of playstyle. Covert Cloak on Gholdengo, on Toxapex, on opposite Water Garganaci says a lot about how relevant this threat is the current metagame.

from A to A-: after Cyclizar & Annihilape ban, screens got a bit worse because clearly those 2 were some of the best users under screens support. Also other possible Grimmsnarl sets are much worse than screens one. Unique pokemon that is needed on certain playstyle (kinda like Torkoal or Pelipper) but thats all about it, not versatile outside of that set and not really usable outside of "screens heavy offense" builds. kinda needed pokemon but brings nothing to the table outside of that support. Court Change Cinderace hurts badly this kinda of playstyle which got recently released.

from A- to A: offensive LO Garchomp variants can exploit better certain matchups than Rocky Helmet defensive chomp, mixed life orb helps more against Rotom-Wash, Corviknight, Hatterene, even Great Tusk, last move Stealth Rock or Spikes depending on your team. Also Tera Sword Dance Garchomp variants seems very promising and unexploited. Its a solid A rank pkmn.

from B+ to A-: very underrated pkmn right now imo sd + 3 atk iron hands is an excellent set, and probably only worth iron hands set to use tbh. great balance between super bulk while hitting hard with a great coverage. booster energy & boots are both superior to leftovers from my experience. only drawbacks are Flying Tera dependant (Great Tusk everywhere) and Skeledirge being annoying (booster energy can help a bit with that). one of the best 1vs1 pkmn in the tier so far.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

After I have been playing the tier a bit for fun during my holidays those are my hot takes (I pretty much agree with most on this vr list btw).

from S- to S+: Gholdengo & Tusk are arguable best non-broken pokemon in the tier. Great Tusk is so versatile that is extremely easy to fit on any kind of built and playstyle. Best hazard removal in the tier, great balance between power and bulk with a decent speed, dual stab with 120 bp that covers every pokemon except air ballon gholdengo and flying types (knock off/ice spinner). Knock Off is really valuable this gen because few topnotch pokemon learn it. Amazing wallbreaker with Choice Band, wincon with BU set, decent revenge killer with Choice Scarf, even on certain games can sweep in late game thanks to rapid spin speed boost + Tera. Protosynthesis is an excellent ability to use it under sun builds as physical tank or wallbreaker. Great Tusk can do everything that you need on your team, from a full defensive set on your stall or fat balance to band/scarf/lo

Do you know what S+ means? It means you HAVE to run it otherwise your team is worse off without it, sure it fits on almost every team but even lando-t was S rank

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

S -> A+

I feel like its still a very good pokemon but it should drop, sure it does do a lot of stuff but I believe after a bit of adaptation teams are able to deal with good to gold esp having removal such as av iron threads, av great tusks, or teams that stack boots to make sure gholdengo + spike stack do not overload a team esp ones that have corviknight on their team .

S- -> S

S tier justifies this thing, its like its a lando-t in SV. It has everything to be ran everywhere it wants to, CB to be ran as a breaker, av can be ran as a pokemon that can take hits occasionally and helps in the gholdengo, iron moth, specs pult, etc, it can run lefties/helmet and be ran as a physical wall to stone wall most physical attackers such as chomp, cinderace, iron hands, scizor, kingabmit, etc. It has everything it wants from providing a team with spin, rocks, item removal, and being able to provide a team with a BU sweeper.. this thing has everything, but yeah this is why its S tier

 

[Fracterra]

Why the hell is meowscarada so low and quaquaval so high... Like what??? Can someone explain because meowscarada is better than quaquaval 100% .__. Like drop quaquaval to B and raise meowscarada and pawmot to A- or smth

Can someone explain please?

Meowscarada needs Tanga Berry to survive any strong STAB Bug attack, expecially first impression from SWing, and the Protean Nerf Seismic Tossed It into The ground. And Quaquaval can spiral out of control with team support, ala B2W2 Moxie DDance SMence

 

[Venduria]

Meowscarada needs Tanga Berry to survive any strong STAB Bug attack, expecially first impression from SWing, and the Protean Nerf Seismic Tossed It into The ground. And Quaquaval can spiral out of control with team support, ala B2W2 Moxie DDance SMence

| Choice Scarf 61.206% |
| Choice Band 16.173% |
| Focus Sash 9.669% |
| Heavy-Duty Boots 8.663% |
| Other 4.290% |

Absolutely no one runs Tanga Berry, and Meowscarada half the time clicks U-Turn for heavy STAB damage. Quaquaval needs more team support to pull off but is also pretty threatening, but saying the Protean nerfs made Meowscarada trash is simply untrue. Almost 80% of players are running Choice items anyway so it literally doesn't matter in those cases. It's also one of the only mons faster than Iron Valiant that can threaten a OHKO with Protean Play Rough.

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 288-338 (99.6 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Ryolain]

| Choice Scarf 61.206% |
| Choice Band 16.173% |
| Focus Sash 9.669% |
| Heavy-Duty Boots 8.663% |
| Other 4.290% |

Absolutely no one runs Tanga Berry, and Meowscarada half the time clicks U-Turn for heavy STAB damage. Quaquaval needs more team support to pull off but is also pretty threatening, but saying the Protean nerfs made Meowscarada trash is simply untrue. Almost 80% of players are running Choice items anyway so it literally doesn't matter in those cases. It's also one of the only mons faster than Iron Valiant that can threaten a OHKO with Protean Play Rough.

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 288-338 (99.6 - 116.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Not to mention there’s literally 2 Bug Pokémon in the tier, one of which rarely runs Bug STAB. So…you’re running Tanga just for Scizor‘s U-Turn?

 

[Bakugames]

The only resist berry that would make sense running on meowscarada to me is whatever the ice resist berry is, since if you're staying you're 9/10 clicking flower trick and turning monograss, and the berry could help you resist... chien pao icicle crash? maybe? Not sure, I'm already hurting my arms with stretching here.

I haven't used meowscarada a lot, but the few times I did I preferred scarf to get the jump on booster energy iron valiant and other scarfers. Don't take this too seriously though like i said, I haven't used the cat much so I'm just going outta my limited experience lol