Gonna try to argue that Conk is far better than D tier and deserves way better, probably C+ or so. It has just enough bulk to not fold to certain mons it’d want to take down and 2HKOs everything bar Weezing in return. Prio also makes it pretty damn good into offense too + the prevalence of certain u-turners like glisc mola pult cind and king make it so much easier to get in
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Resource SV OU Teal Mask Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter ausma
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Fast Will-o-Wisp and Healing Wish maybe?
Ninetales has a decently fast Encore, Hypnosis, Hwish, very occasionally Nasty Plot (essentially the same tools as Ninetales-A), so it has at least something going for it even if Tork is still generally the preferred setter.
Mainly because of Gliscor making its life hell. If it doesn't run Ice Spinner, then Gliscor gets to endlessly wall it and gets to just keep spamming hazards, meaning the move is a mandatory addition to Great Tusk's moveset and thus limits its versatility. Spin-centric sets have to have Rapid Spin and Ice Spinner, meaning only two slots are open for Earthquake/Headlong Rush, Body Press/Close Combat, Knock Off, and Stealth Rock, and it means more niche options like Taunt and Stone Edge will have an even harder time getting slotted in. There are certainly other threats like Ogerpon-Wellspring that hurt it too, but Glisor is the main culprit.
ninetales received healing wish entering scarlet and violet; this in tandem with fast encore is reason enough to consider it > torkoal
Heatran has a rough time in OU mostly because of the abundance of ground and fighting coverage on top of the hazard stack centric tier, which limits it's entry opportunities severely, and it has no reliable recovery to be able to afford and run Boots. Maushold and Milotic should be lower as neither provide significant advantages over it's competition, much less Maushold who notoriously folds the second it has to click something that isn't Population Bomb. Milotic still having scald and flip turn means it's a decent defensive pivot, but generally pokemon like Glowking and Zapdos handle that role in teams better while also having a more favorable matchup with Wellspring. Hands is the weirdest one, as it does have the power to muscle through various tier staples after a swords dance, but it's STAB options having low base power and being essentially forced to tera to not get worn down as easily means it's a very specific pokemon to use, probably only on Veil teams
I think the list is great, that being said you cannot convince me that Cinderace is lower than A+ in this meta, I'm sorry.
Okay you broke down offensive, supportive, and defensive presence. Supportive presence it's the only thing in this meta that puts on a fight when it comes to screens and webs which is currently dominating the meta, Cinderace Item of choice is Heavy-Duty Boots so it doesn't ever have to adapt it's game. Cinderace also doesn't have to be the only option on the team to move entry hazard it can be paired with a Rapid Spinner (Even though this is not related so I'll stop here). I personally think Cinderace in this current meta is top 5, purely because of the ability to Court Change when this covers a wide range when it comes to the builder in terms of preparing for Ribombee and Ninetales-Alola, switches in on it's attacks and threatens it with Court Change or Pyro Ball. Defensively it's not the best but you can run a more dedicated HP set, but it's great switching in on Gholdengo (Make it Rain) and taking advantage of the Court Change, and threatening it to switch out. Offensively, Libero / Blaze + Swords Dance and option to Sucker Punch, Gunk Shot, High Jump Kick, Zen Headbutt and other moves are still being under explored (It has a versatile movepool).
I agree, with Gliscor, Gholdengo, Kingambit and Great Tusk being better mons in terms of viability, but I don't think you can make an argument of any of the other mons except maybe Dragapult (Which is forced to run the HDB set) since how common Sticky Webs are (So it's usually limiting it to one set) because it needs massive support if it's running any other set to remove entry hazard. Zamazenta as well, I think the best set it runs is Leftovers + Substitute for Gliscor matchups, even though HDB is extremely viable with 4 attacks. Every other mon listed under A+ all falls victim to Sticky Webs which usually invalidates the matchup, you NEED support from Cinderace to make all these mons feel like a A+ mon.
Anyway thanks to Finch for hosting as project leader in the past, and thank you to the VR council for putting such effort in this.
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I forgot it has Healing Wish now
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chomp in b tier?
maybe there is still garchope
maybe there is still garchope
Heatran and Lando in B+?
kinda thought Gliscor and other meta trends would’ve killed their viability.
Any explanation?
kinda thought Gliscor and other meta trends would’ve killed their viability.
Any explanation?
also why is scizor at b-
what niche does it have
i thought it would've been demolished by the amount of moth and cinderaces running around
what niche does it have
i thought it would've been demolished by the amount of moth and cinderaces running around
didn't know that actually, can def see the use cases for that. thanks
munkidori has actual coverage too so this isn’t correct, but aside from that, having access to toxic chain, u-turn, and psychic stab are pretty substantial for bulky offense structures that feature a lot of tera poison mons and also get annoyed hard by toxic, esp since u-turn can proc it. future sight has also seen a bit of success on high ladder
already explained glisc and gambit, but while tusk is still very potent, the advent of gliscor, heavy air balloon dengo spam, and continuous high usage of pult limits its sets really hard and leads to it facing a lot more chip than maybe is comfortable. plus, rapid spin isn’t always going to be surefire and it really wants ice spinner for glisc. bulk up and speed proto are still really good but tusk can’t always get away with dedicated defensive variants anymore
technician bullet punch is always going to have some niche in a centralized offensive metagame, plus its typing is advantageous into glisc which can open up sd variants a bit more readily. knock off is a great accent to these sets too and lets it not only punish dengo harder but make reliable progress unlike before.
Is Maushold B- rank becaus of tidy up?
lando is mostly getting by with sd/scarf and the raw utility of intimidate, whereas heatran (mainly with an air balloon) has shown to have some good utility as a rocker and status spreader in a metagame where moth is really strong and where moderately fast wisp is especially useful
Why is Infernape ranked? Is that bulky Wisp set Aim used actually good?
not good good, but rank-worthy yes
clangorous soul + tera normal boomburst blows shit up, and iron hands is still a decent sd tank for teams that can support/accent its traits well. rest i already explained in other posts
Also as a rule of thumb: if your post doesn’t get a reply, then please assume it’s already been answered and just look in the thread for your answer. In general, even, please be sure to search the thread for answers to your question before asking it. I know everybody’s excited, but do exercise a bit of restraint and just search the thread before jumping the gun. Thank you!
just cause I haven't seen anyone else ask, why did corv make it into B+ when it can't defog on things anymore thanks to ghold
Iron Defense + Body Press is an excellent check to many of the strong Physical attackers like Great Tusk, Zamazenta (corv wins 1v1) Certain ogerpon variants, and Roaring Moon. Slow U-Turn is also great to bring threats safely in vs Gliscor without getting Toxic'd.
What influenced the decision to put Ogerpom-Cornerstone and Ogerpon in B and not higher?
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