Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Finchinator said:
It's close between high and medium TBH. I have seen specs, 3a boots, and NP boots. I think it hits hard and has some nice defensive tera prospects, but its slowness hurts and can lead to it being overwhelmed
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Like Sinistcha! That was always my biggest issues when I used it, being overwhelmed. And paralysis, and needing to save my Tera to avoid Toxic.
 
tommytt22 said:
Running double spore with smeargle and amoongus is a pretty nasty way to ensure darkrai gets maximum setup and bad dreams damage.


One pokemon i really dont see and would like to put a spotlight on is :ambipom:
Tera ice triple axel is nasty strong with technician, which allows you to run wide lens for consistency. 115 speed is still great but i do use it with webs to stop booster pokemon from outspeeding. its also handy as an anti lead agaisnt sash users.
:bw/ambipom: @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Double Hit
- Beat Up
- Fake Out

This isnt anything A rank but i think it is strong and fast enough to earn a place on the VR. Once the dust settles itll be an easier case to make
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Why use this over Cincinno? I feel that mon is much more valuable in the metagame due to being able to clear hazards in addition to using Triple Axel like Ambipom.
 
What is Stellar Tera really worth it on, aside from Serperior? I feel like in the majority of situations it's far better to have a defensive Tera or one spammable super-STAB. I tried it on Glowking for a little bit and never found it useful.

Also, how's this Deo-S set? Would it be better to have a +spe nature to deal with, like, +1 Iron Moth? (never mind it's still slower but I'm sure there are other things it would help with) I have Tera Ghost to break Glowking but would Fighting be better, to survive Sucker Punches and hit harder with Focus Blast?

:sv/deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psycho Boost
- Trick
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
Here's the rest of the team in case it matters, it's the same kind of balance team I liked pre-Gliscor ban, with a Deo-S stapled to it
 
XenonHero126 said:
What is Stellar Tera really worth it on, aside from Serperior?
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Enamorus, for obvious reasons.
I also think Iron Valiant could use Stellar type when your team lacks Kingambit answers. In general, it’s a good type when a Pokemon doesn’t really care about;
A. Using other Tera Types
B. Tera Blast using up a moveslot for something that hits everything neutrally
Honestly it’s pretty underwhelming otherwise.
 
Cuddly said:
Enamorus, for obvious reasons.
I also think Iron Valiant could use Stellar type when your team lacks Kingambit answers. In general, it’s a good type when a Pokemon doesn’t really care about;
A. Using other Tera Types
B. Tera Blast using up a moveslot for something that hits everything neutrally
Honestly it’s pretty underwhelming otherwise.
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The Valiant Reverse 50/50 Technique is something to admire. See, Stellar as we hopefully all know by now is SE against all Teras, and as such is insane against Gambit, who, more than any other mon of its caliber, requires Tera to not be BTFO by fighting types. As long as Val can live a 5 Fallen Sucker Punch, which with its dual resist I see no reason why it couldn't live even from a +2, it could force the Gambit to either Tera and risk being Stellar Blasted, or stay base and be cleaned up by the Aura Sphere/Focus Miss/Close Combat (really could be HJK even if you're funny).

Then again, if you predict wrong and they have fucking Poison Jab, you're screwed.
 
I know its a little late but I am here to share my thoughts on the new Pokemon (besides Pecharunt), and share the sets I use

Archaludon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Body Press
- Flash Cannon
AV+Stamina+Body Press is self explanitory, with Dragon Pulse and Flash Cannon for STAB, and Dark Pulse because Gholdengo

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Morning Sun
Haha DDance go BRRRRRRRRRRR + Morning Sun because why the fuck not

Hydrapple @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Fickle Beam
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Sucker Punch
RegenVest is funny, with Giga Drain because recovery, Earth Power for Steels, Fickle Beam because 3/10 chance to obleterate any non Fairy/Steel type opponents soul, and Sucker Punch for priority and picking off Tera Ghost Kingambit that clicked Iron Head

Iron Boulder @ Life Orb/Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mighty Cleave
- Throat Chop
- Close Combat
Swords Dance once, then basically sweep. Throat Chop for Gholdengo and Close Combat for Steels

Iron Crown @ Leftovers/Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 80 HP / 172 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tachyon Cutter
- Psychic Noise
- Focus Blast
Calm Mind a couple of times, with Tachyon Cutter and Psychic Noise for STAB, Psychic Noise for preventing recovery, and Focus Blast becaue why the hell not

Raging Bolt @ Leftovers/Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderclap
- Weather Ball
Calm Mind a couple of times, Dragon Pulse and Thunderclap for STAB, Thunderclap for low speed help tool, and Weather Ball for Sun teams, with Hyper Voice if I dont plan to Tera, or Tera Blast if I do
I will do another post with some of the returning Pokemon
 
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StompyStomps said:
Terapagos @ Leftovers
Ability: Tera Shift
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Tera Starstorm
- Stored Power
- Flamethrower/Earth Power
Calm Mind once or twice, then just nuke the opposition with either Stored Powers or Tera Starstorm, with either Flamethrower or Earth Power for coverage
I will do another post with some of the returning Pokemon
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Thr gem tortoise is banned, currently. It's honestly a swell set, better than what I managed, and nothing could really replace it.
Truly the modern gen 1 Tauros
 
Serviperhater said:
I’m a little confused to what havalugg does. Can you please explain? Custap lead?
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It is an option as a physically defensive tank. Generally most things in "low" are worth using very, very infrequently if ever though and many would not be ranked on a formal list -- we tend to lean towards being as inclusive as possible so fewer people cry when they do not see their favorites.
 
Magcargo said:
Why use this over Cincinno? I feel that mon is much more valuable in the metagame due to being able to clear hazards in addition to using Triple Axel like Ambipom.
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if using tidy up, maushold is better than cinccino as it has more bulk (yikes) and can sweep with pop bomb after. if not using tidy up, ambipom is stronger and has fake out. cinccino sits betweeen the two and does niether job effectively
 
Finchinator said:
OU Viability List for the initial DLC2 metagame is now up: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-dlc2-viability-list.3732813/#post-9897581 -- be sure to check it out!
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Overall it's a really good list, I'm in the opinion of skeledirge being too low, it matches up well into so many things and now it does so even better with the new tools it has access to, but it is relatively resource dependent and it's bad matchups are a pretty big detriment. Surprised to see gambit comparatively low, it really is just crazy out there. Also what's golurk doing? I don't doubt it but I'm just curious, always liked the big guy so I'm curious to know why he's viable-ish
 
tommytt22 said:
if using tidy up, maushold is better than cinccino as it has more bulk (yikes) and can sweep with pop bomb after. if not using tidy up, ambipom is stronger and has fake out. cinccino sits betweeen the two and does niether job effectively
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I mean neither Maushold nor Cinccino is taking a hit so that part is irrelevant, and yes on paper cinccino is worse than maushold, in practice I think it's closer than you're giving it credit for. I mean for one thing 5 hit tail slap won't fucking kill you if a rocky helmet pokemon switches in (although being at 1/6 hp may as well be dead). As for another, yeah it has 85% accuracy (why do you hate my broom game freak) but it only checks for accuracy once meaning you could just run something like boots or lefties. And as for a third thing it's marginally faster, and the 4th thing is that it knows bullet seed, which is actually extremely good. Like overall neither are good and don't nearly make up for the lack of hazard removal, but I think you're underrating cinccino just a tiny bit (inb4 stuck in NUBL)
 
Casteliacone said:
Also what's golurk doing? I don't doubt it but I'm just curious, always liked the big guy so I'm curious to know why he's viable-ish
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Golurk gained access to Knock Off in this DLC in addition to having access to Stealth Rock (being one of only two Ghosts to get SR, the other being Palossand which has much worse qualities overall) - it has a great offensive profile with a fantastic coverage movepool along with good abilities, and usable 89/80/80 bulk alongside Ground/Ghost defensive typing which is solid (the fighting-type immunity is stupendous). Additionally, Tera was quite beneficial for it thanks to Tera Fighting Iron Fist Drain Punch acting as a great Dark-type lure along with some other great options for Tera types.

Golurk's overall a good offensive utility mon that has some notable flaws, but the niche it occupies is unique and can be quite strong as long as it fits your team's archetype. Here's one of the sets I've been tooling around with in the meta as of late, Golurk's movepool is pretty sizeable and it has good stats so tinkering around with it is an option! Definitely not an OU staple by any means, but Golurk has some great tools and tera was a huge blessing for Golurk as well regardless of the set that you're running.

:golurk:
Golurk @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch​
 
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Casteliacone said:
Overall it's a really good list, I'm in the opinion of skeledirge being too low, it matches up well into so many things and now it does so even better with the new tools it has access to, but it is relatively resource dependent and it's bad matchups are a pretty big detriment. Surprised to see gambit comparatively low, it really is just crazy out there
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Also for
Morkal said:
Golurk gained access to Knock Off in this DLC in addition to having access to Stealth Rock (being one of only two Ghosts to get SR, the other being Palossand which has much worse qualities overall) - it has a great offensive profile with a fantastic coverage movepool along with good abilities, and usable 89/80/80 bulk alongside Ground/Ghost defensive typing which is solid (the fighting-type immunity is stupendous). Additionally, Tera was quite beneficial for it thanks to Tera Fighting Iron Fist Drain Punch acting as a great Dark-type lure along with some other great options for Tera types.

Golurk's overall a good offensive utility mon that has some notable flaws, but the niche it occupies is unique and can be quite strong as long as it fits your team's archetype. Here's one of the sets I've been tooling around with in the meta as of late, Golurk's movepool is pretty sizeable and it has good stats so tinkering around with it is an option! Definitely not an OU staple by any means, but Golurk has some great tools and tera was a huge blessing for Golurk as well regardless of the set that you're running.

:golurk:
Golurk @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch​
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I see I see, interesting! I'm just glad to see him doing well for himself
 
few questions:

can totally see why latios is at mid tier, but latias? is this for the cm agility sweeping set? i dont feel like thatd warrant a mid ranking since its so gimmicky, so are you using calm mind roost or scarf or something else?

what is metagross doing? id imagine an agility weakness policy set, but again, if something else is going on, like cb, scarf, av, or defensive, i am interested

i can see enamorus being a sweeper, but surely not mid rank, right?

raging bolt doesnt rly seem like it deserves the high ranking? its slow, is abusable after a draco drop, has thunderclap which is cool but tends to kinda be obnoxious to deal with the 50/50s from my experience, and lacks recovery, so its ability to check pon, rilla, etc is temporary

rotom-wash in low? it has pain split now which i feel like probably justifies it, although then again i havent used it much

avalugg-h? i feel like this is probably trolling.

what changed for comfey this gen to make it deserve any attention in ou?

mimikyu and porygon z have historically been terrible in ou, would like to know what changed for them

whats politoed doing? did it gain something better for it over pelliper?

what is brute bonnet doing. blud thinks hes on the team

what nets glimmora much consideration at all in a tier with deo-s? tspikes are good, sure, but they're not THAT good

and is polteageist such a good setup sweeper that its in mid rank? sure, theres a lot of powerful dracos running around that net it setup opportunities, and its got an immunity to dnites espeed, but i feel like its sash is so much more vulnerable with all the great hazard setters, easiness to deny removal, and other powerful priority options
 
Morkal said:
Golurk gained access to Knock Off in this DLC in addition to having access to Stealth Rock (being one of only two Ghosts to get SR, the other being Palossand which has much worse qualities overall) - it has a great offensive profile with a fantastic coverage movepool along with good abilities, and usable 89/80/80 bulk alongside Ground/Ghost defensive typing which is solid (the fighting-type immunity is stupendous). Additionally, Tera was quite beneficial for it thanks to Tera Fighting Iron Fist Drain Punch acting as a great Dark-type lure along with some other great options for Tera types.

Golurk's overall a good offensive utility mon that has some notable flaws, but the niche it occupies is unique and can be quite strong as long as it fits your team's archetype. Here's one of the sets I've been tooling around with in the meta as of late, Golurk's movepool is pretty sizeable and it has good stats so tinkering around with it is an option! Definitely not an OU staple by any means, but Golurk has some great tools and tera was a huge blessing for Golurk as well regardless of the set that you're running.

:golurk:
Golurk @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch​
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i've personally thought about no guard poltergeist and tera fighting dynamicpunch. both of those moves hit unreasonably hard for nearly perfect neutral coverage that never misses, and dynamicpunch's guaranteed confusion can force a lot of switches on things that would otherwise check it. the other two slots are still free if you want to play around with knock for utility, rocks, or drain punch for the recovery. if you run both drain punch and dynamicpunch you could even slot in punching glove for a little bit of extra power and insurance against stuff like burning bulwark. now, this all could be bunkum because i haven't actually gone on ladder with golurk and i don't plan to start actively testing out heat/niche stuff until things settle, but i definitely see potential in this mon
 
People are taking the viability lists way too seriously.

I remembered Articuno-G being High Rank in the one for Home and look at how long that lasted. This is just a list made in a 3-day old meta. Things change rapidly in a week, and that’s why viability rankings aren’t made until later. The meta is still being explored, it’s just a matter of time.
 
jawsome274 said:
few questions:

can totally see why latios is at mid tier, but latias? is this for the cm agility sweeping set? i dont feel like thatd warrant a mid ranking since its so gimmicky, so are you using calm mind roost or scarf or something else?

what is metagross doing? id imagine an agility weakness policy set, but again, if something else is going on, like cb, scarf, av, or defensive, i am interested

i can see enamorus being a sweeper, but surely not mid rank, right?

raging bolt doesnt rly seem like it deserves the high ranking? its slow, is abusable after a draco drop, has thunderclap which is cool but tends to kinda be obnoxious to deal with the 50/50s from my experience, and lacks recovery, so its ability to check pon, rilla, etc is temporary

rotom-wash in low? it has pain split now which i feel like probably justifies it, although then again i havent used it much

avalugg-h? i feel like this is probably trolling.

what changed for comfey this gen to make it deserve any attention in ou?

mimikyu and porygon z have historically been terrible in ou, would like to know what changed for them

whats politoed doing? did it gain something better for it over pelliper?

what is brute bonnet doing. blud thinks hes on the team

what nets glimmora much consideration at all in a tier with deo-s? tspikes are good, sure, but they're not THAT good

and is polteageist such a good setup sweeper that its in mid rank? sure, theres a lot of powerful dracos running around that net it setup opportunities, and its got an immunity to dnites espeed, but i feel like its sash is so much more vulnerable with all the great hazard setters, easiness to deny removal, and other powerful priority options
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I'll give a quick rundown on the mons you mentioned that I've personally used or have gone against enough to get a good feel for.

:latios: and :latias:

Latias is honestly a little better than Latios right now - Latias's bulk and support options allow it to sit on some nasty threats that other Pokemon simply can't, while Latios competes with Dragapult for the Specs slot (with the Scarf variant being decidedly underpowered). Latios is still great (especially with the buffed Luster Purge), but competition for special attackers is brutal right now.

:metagross:

Almost every variant of Metagross I've seen has been defensive, and oh lawdy does it check off some nice boxes - powerful, can take a hit, has phenomenal typing (with the downside of a Dark-type weakness of course, but this can be offset with Tera), and can utilize Tera with a nicely tailored movepool.

:enamorus therian:

Stellar Tera is nuts; while it's not as borked as its regular counterpart, Enam-T just has generally great synergy in the meta right now - that bulk really can come in handy with a lot of Dark-type threats running about.

:raging bolt: (No sprite yet)

This mon was actually considered for a top slot - it's bulky, powerful, has one of the best priority moves in the game, and has phenomenal offensive and defensive typing (and is arguably one of the best Tera abusers in OU). It has flaws, but it's a phenomenal OU mon and hits like a truck. Calm Mind in particular is brutal.

:avalugg hisui:

Not trolling - I wrote a 5000+ word dissertation here on OU Avalugg-Hisui back in June of this year. Fantastic spinner with great offensive and defensive qualities with reliable recovery. Avalugg-Hisui especially benefits from Tera (in addition to access to Strong Jaw and a solid physical movepool), and Ice/Rock is pretty insane offensively. Avalugg-H is worth checking out.

:comfey:

Wrote a small little blurb about Comfey here but it got access to several great new tools like Knock Off, and priority Triage Draining Kiss along with U-Turn and Leech Seed matches up well against some potent meta threats.

:porygon z:

This mon was born for Tera - Tera Blast is always STAB for Porygon-Z and there are many different sets it can use to take advantage of this along with firing off absolutely nuclear STAB attacks. PoryZ is strong, outspeeds some notable meta staples, and has a lot of flexibility in terms of the coverage it can run.

:glimmora:

Glimmora has a lot of great qualities even with Deoxys-S being in the tier (although Deo-S does hamper it a bit) - Glim's ability is still wonderful, and it has a phenomenal special attack stat with great defensive and offensive typing with wonderful coverage. Glim's surroundings may have changed, but it's still doing Glim things wonderfully.

As for the others you mentioned, I haven't used them enough to really get a feel on them - but I'll look into Pokemon like Mimikyu and such a little more and post some potential sets when I finish up some other things on my plate (including a Magmortar thread).
 
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peepeepoopoo722 said:
Can you share some replays of deoxys speed that suggest it is a priority? I've used it on every team so far this season and it's never been an easy click buttons and win. I've only swept with it a handful of times and never been swept. But maybe things are different up in 1900s so if that's you please share. I see a lot of people saying it's broken, but I have yet to see it in my battles or watching battles so please share replays if I'm missing something.

The thing can hardly switch in and really struggles to set up.
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i don't have many replays on hand but just for an example of a LO deoxys team ive used, this one here has Rilla & AV Primarina as offensive pivots, Dirge & Tusk as more defensive utilities, and then Deoxys and Serperior as win conditions. on this teamstyle, serp and deoxys find multiple opportunities to safely switch in per game, and in some games they're claiming KOs nearly every time. since deoxys needs this pivot core to support it, it isn't quite as straightforward as "click buttons and win", but it does feel like a clear power level above similar mons like Dragapult and Meowscarada that feel more balanced, imo. also im not quite 1900s yet, but have peaked at 1835 so far with this team which is pretty good for me! :3
1702862756720.png


in the future i might make a more detailed post that makes an argument for why i support a deoxys-speed quickban, including replays
 
tommytt22 said:
if using tidy up, maushold is better than cinccino as it has more bulk (yikes) and can sweep with pop bomb after. if not using tidy up, ambipom is stronger and has fake out. cinccino sits betweeen the two and does niether job effectively
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Cinccino is still stronger than Ambipom because Ambipom lost Tail Slap this gen and Cinccino still has it, which more than makes up for the 5 base attack difference. Other than missing Fake Out access, Cinccino is better. But yeah, Maushold’s stronger normal STAB probably makes it preferable to Cinccino.
 
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