Sounds about what Wugtrio can afford for coverage, but Triple Dive being a multi-hit move does have some utility against Focus Sash users
Outside of breaking Subs, I think Liquidation is better on Wug. 5 less power, 10 more Accuracy and a secondary effect.
Bulky Pivoting with Intimidate and a Defensive typing that lets it run Rocky Helmet or items besides HDB (no Spikes and Neutral to SR) gives it versatility in defensive roles, and U-Turn + Intimidate Pivoting still does work in a Physical Heavy Meta like this. While not massive, its Special Attack is also enough to run Special moves for hitting certain targets like Earth Power to break Bulky Fires without Burn issues or Grass Knot for opposing Tusk/Dondozo, and 145 Base ATK is still useable even uninvestedWhy is Lando-T good now? I thought it was pretty subpar (outclassed by tusk) for pretty much all of dlc1.
The OU Discussion Thread rn
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Btw Delibird Heart, have you considered Foul Play as an option to 2HKO Wogre on the switch?
252 Atk Choice Band Wugtrio Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 170-200 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ehh, I'm thinking more along the lines of banded sand force, though sadly it doesn't get high horsepower, and stomping tantrum is too weak.Dugtrio has more potential with it's access to Swords Dance and High Horsepower (although I don't know how it can afford to set up a SD to begin with)
Right now I've got a set of e-quake, sucker punch, stone edge and endevor. Stone edge is also boosted by sand force, so it hits pretty damn hard.Pretty impressive, though coverage might be needed for Rillaboom and Grassy Terrain
Im not gonna repeat everything I said there but tldr: rain might still have some bright days ahead. In fact I think it's probably still better than sun rn.
Morkal did use it.Atleast it's not like Meganium who, even with the potential from the additions to it's movepool, still suck
Oh, also the least used fully evolved mons are from least used to most used (though they still aren't used much): Calyrex (by like 80 mons to the next least used mon, it was the 602 most used mon), Oricorio-Pa'u and Noctowl.Morkal OU SunSo we've been talking a lot about Rain lately, but what about Sun? I want to quickly share some of the unique/strong picks that I've been working with on various OU Sun teams. Some of these mons are meta staples while others are Pokemon that I feel should be looked at more due to their nice qualities. I'm going to start with my favorite sun mon as of right now -
Meganium @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Leaf Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Encore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
Meganium has been one of my favorite discoveries on Sun teams thanks to its great bulk, the newfound ability to terastallize, a surprisingly good base 80 speed for a bulky mon, a great ability for Sun, reliable recovery, and a stupendous movepool. Leaf Guard protects it against status while Synthesis is phenomenal in the sun - allowing it to shrug off attacks and attempts at status that other Pokemon can't begin to deal with. Meganium provides excellent utility and even some offensive pressure thanks to access to the combination of Body Press + Knock Off along with Encore to royally mess over slower setup mons such as Raging Bolt and Kingambit. Meganium is another Gen 2 mon that finally has a chance to shine thanks to its access to a plethora of unique and synergistic tools that other Pokemon could only dream of. I'll likely be posting the full Sun team I'm using Meganium on in RMT at some point soon (along with writing a full Meganium essay), so keep a lookout for that and also check in there as well for a plethora of other wonderfully constructed teams!
Necrozma @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Photon Geyser
- Morning Sun
Beats Calm Mind Agility Stored Power Iron Crown one-on-one, cooks Kingambit under Sun while comfortably surviving Supreme Overlord 5 Allies Fainted Sucker Punch on Bulky variants both pre and post-tera. Boost with Calm Mind, fantastic recovery (especially under Sun) with Morning Sun, solid natural bulk combined with an incredible ability in Prism Armor, and more. Necrozma is pretty underexplored as its movepool is a bit mind-boggling with how many different roles it can take on. Solid bulky offensive mon that pairs well with numerous other threats under Sun (especially staples like Great Tusk).
Gouging Fire @ Choice Band
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Psychic Fangs
I discovered somewhat early on that I'm not the biggest fan of Gouging Fire requiring setup, so I decided to instead run either bulk (Morning Sun with Burning Bulwark) or outright power. So I discovered Choice Band Gouging Fire under Sun and let me tell you, it's one of my new favorite sun threats. STAB Flare Blitz boosted by Sun, Choice Band, and Protosynthesis will cook almost anything. Outrage is also great with the lack of consistent Fairy-types around (Clefable does not want to switch into Flare Blitz), and Earthquake is phenomenal coverage. My preferred niche tech on this set is Psychic Fangs for two specific reasons - breaking screens and hitting Pokemon like Great Tusk, Toxapex, Pecharunt, and Zamazenta super effectively (especially if Sun is not up).
Houndoom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat/Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast
- Destiny Bond
Houndoom has a very unique spot in the metagame thanks to four traits that no other Pokemon have; it's the only (legal ) Dark/Fire-type Special Attacker allowed in OU, it has acceptable special bulk with an acceptable speed tier (75/80 special bulk with 95 speed), has Flash Fire to give it additional switch-in opportunities while powering up its Fire STAB, and with Tera it can patch up its specific coverage issues and muscle through some annoying threats while gaining a useful Dragon-immunity. The last option on this set is what makes Houndoom such an effective cleaner and also an effective sacrificial mon - Destiny Bond. With Timid + Choice Scarf, Houndoom reaches 475 Speed - this outspeeds +1 Jolly Gouging Fire and ties with +1 Jolly DD Kyurem along with outpacing many other threats like Scarf Modest Enamorus, Scarf Gholdengo (also resists both of Dhengo's STABS). If Houndoom is down for the count and you need a last-ditch effort to take down a +1 sweeper, Houndoom can outpace a huge number of threats, use Destiny Bond, and take down an opposing threat with it. Houndoom's fire STAB is nuclear under the Sun and having Dark STAB isn't bad either and allows Houndoom to threaten Pokemon like Dragapult, Pecharunt, Skeledirge, and Glowking. Houndoom's niche comes from its powerful STABS, speed control with Scarf, access to Tera, and effective revenge killing both from its attacking power + ability to take any mon down provided it can outspeed it.
Nah. Sun is for sure better than rain right now for three reasons:
1) Although Rain is historically easier to build and far more brainless it has more bad matchups vs common threats. Rain is flat out bad vs. Kingambit, Dragonite, Walking Wake, Ogerpon-W, and Rillaboom. Nasty list.
2) Sun has better abusers, and Protosynthesis boosts those abusers every turn. As if Raging Bolt, Walking Wake, Gouging Fire, and Roaring Moon needed permanent Booster Energy…?
3) Great Tusk - arguably the best / most useful mon in the tier is better on Sun vs Rain, and he gets permanent Proto boost. Tusk is that fucking good.
Rain is unserious right now. And I’m a rain player. Other than the temporary blip that was Archaludon, rain has only ever been a serious archetype when Ferrothorn was around to carry it.
1) Dragonite is actually not that good vs rain and can be dealt with with gambit (which u definitely need to play on rain rn imo) or literally just any of ur mons except barra. Wake ogerpon-W and rillaboom are bigger threats to rain but can be played around with corect prediction (clicking cc on barra) or just with overqwil with correct positioning. i'd argue the one mon that gives rain most trouble rn is raging bolt actually. (also rain doesn't really feel brainless to play now, because u have to outplay all the mons u mentioned lol)
2) arguable. i don't personally feel like there is such a big difference in overall efficiency of rain and sun abusers. barra is extremely threatening to any team without ogerpon-W or dondozo (and that can be dealt with with your teammates) since the meta is extremely offensive rn and is often one or two instances of chip away from getting liquidated x5. also the problem of sun is that u give booster defense to opposing tusks etc etc and torkoal is wayyyy worse than peli in terms of general usefulness (mostly by virtue of not having a pivoting move, which forces most sun builds to run an eject button user to not lose momentum).
3) tusk is not the best mon in the tier, he's the most used, because gambit is ubiquitous and tusk checks it very well while also being able to provide hazards or removal. it's just a very good role compressor. in fact tusk is not even necessarily better on sun than it is on any other team, so i'd say that's kind of a moot point. rain doesn't need tusk because they have other ways to deal with gambit (your own gambit, jet from barra to outplay sucker, etc) and other ways to place and remove hazards (iron treads the goat)
252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 239-282 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKOGlad it’s working for you. I started the gen with rain and now won’t touch it with a ten foot pole. It’s no where near as consistent as previous gens.
Clicking CC on Barra isn’t even a good mid ground in most games and it doesn’t OHKO. Barra doesn’t make progress vs. Ogerpon-W + any defensive backbone which is kind of my overall point. You can use rain, but it has many poor matchups. Sun God Walking Wake hits everything with Hydro / Fire Move / Draco with no thinking cap needed.
Eh. If a team loses 5-0 to Barra clicking Liquidation it is poorly built and poor use of Tera. Barra is also one SR chip himself from getting sniped from a sucker punch. Not to mention Grassy Glide & Thunderclap.
I said it’s arguably the best / most useful in the tier. Great Tusk simply makes most teams better and the fact that it’s boosted by Sun in whichever way you choose is a big deal. Overall point was that:
Great Tusk + Proto Dragons > Barraskewda + Iron Treads
Regarding Peli vs. Torkoal I’ve even called that into question this Gen, mostly due to Tera picking who you need to check for the team. Torkoal at least has the stats to do that.
It's ehh. Cetitan absolutely carries snow teams, and kyurem also is another massive threat. The thing is that a-tales is quite bad, it has super effective coverage against dragon types, but it can't run boots and has to take a turn setting up aurora veil, which can be used against it by getting a big threat in for free or deal big damage to it.Snow looking at this gen's weather war like:
Okay on a serious note, does Snow actually have a chance to be used as a playstyle? I mean we've got threats like Kyurem and Weavile who could be good, and some other stuff like Cetitan (Slush Rush Belly Drum Cetitan is an utter menace btw, I got swept by this on ladder once because it also learns priority in Ice Shard and hits like an absolute truck).
I know that you (or mods) deleted the sunflora post, but it is extremely powerful.The fact that most of the Slush Rush users (or maybe Ice Body users) are shitmons is actually nuts. Snowslash would be a bit threatening should it get the chance to switch in safely and set up a SD, but is too slow outside of Snow and suffers from those 2 4x weaknesses, and Frosmoth, while not having any snow-related abilities, is an okay wincon with QD that feels very weak and is too reliant on setup to do damage.
I tried out tera fly on kingambit yday it ohkoed a great tusk I was like p0o0o0ogers maximum!!! Its the new roaring moon! BTW, there lots of cn students in aus who can't order pie and coffee in the canteen in simple English but manage to pass their essays miraculously, u should help sell them essay services! Also sell some to me I got c in English when in school halp ;_;Vivian, who you were responding to, started their post with this:
"as scary as it is, my main problem with roaring moon is that there are multiple different ways to play around it and it's very hard to account for all of them when teambuilding."
And ended with this:
"sorry for the long ass paragraph but TLDR: roaring moon is dumb but i don't think it stands out as banworthy anymore"
You responded to them with this:
"Pack a tusk or zamazenta kingambit problem solved, anyway fair opinion. U can say moon has counterplay but i personally think rmoon is more of a fast powerful stall or balance breaker that's still useful vs other offense that helps to open the door for other sweepers on ho teams while secondarily being a sweeper that has the chance to sweep itself in right circumstance, I think most teams that use it know that... still soo good anyways"
I read this multiple times further. The only time you mentioned Kingambit in that post was the first sentence, which certainly looks like you are talking about Roaring Moon counters. After reading Vivian's initial post and not yours, I did eventually find this section:
"if you run the standard 3A w/ DD set then it becomes very easy for common physical walls to come in, take a knock off, set up an ID/bulk up/curse/etc. then heal off the damage the following turn, meaning your roaring moon is now forced to switch out and you lose your protosynthesis boost. you could instead run taunt to shut down setup attempts from these physical walls, but then you've likely put yourself in a very bad position against kingambit."
Kingambit was also mentioned only here in the post you quoted, and nowhere else in said post, while Roaring Moon was mentioned multiple other times in that post as well.
After spending way too much time looking at all this again, and hearing your complaints, I did eventually get what you were saying. Sort of. The wording is still very strange. Not sure if English isn't your first language or not, but it wasn't clear to a native English speaker what you were responding to by what you wrote.
If what you say you meant now is true, then I don't understand why you didn't just cut out everything except the part you were actually responding to.