Absolutely not lmao
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Technically no cuz mid ladder is kinda funky
You can't adapt to Heartflame. It's counterplay is very well known (hazards and priority/faster mons), but putting Ogerpon counterplay in every team is very restrictive, and limits playstyles like Balance and Stall.
Okay, you make a good point.
Forcing dragonite in each team does not sound very healthy.
How are we already devolving into chaos when we were already given direction lol. We got a Foger QB, we're moving into a suspect and will likely deal with Bloona, Manaphy, and / or Woger before long. We're not talking tiering philosophy, and there's no point in arguing other bans given the landscape of the tier. Peronsally, I'm just happy to be out of Foger hell.
I have strong reason to believe that the only reason Bloona and Manaphy received such low scores was because of Foger and Woger. They tear through common defensive cores and dampen both offensive threats; thereby offensively decreasing the effectiveness of either in a given match. While I'm disappointed to hear that Bloona and Manaphy are more likely to receive a suspect test before Woger, as long as we're cutting away at the problematic threats the metagame is offering then I think we're all happy.
As for Gliscor? I honestly don't think it's a problem at all. With Foger gone, we're focusing on removing the other three problematic threats in the tier and gradually coming to a place of stability where we will have more tools to adapt to it. Right now any counterplay we can offer struggles to keep up with Bloona, Manaphy, and Woger; the sooner we remove them the lesser Gliscor will appear to be an issue.
I have strong reason to believe that the only reason Bloona and Manaphy received such low scores was because of Foger and Woger. They tear through common defensive cores and dampen both offensive threats; thereby offensively decreasing the effectiveness of either in a given match. While I'm disappointed to hear that Bloona and Manaphy are more likely to receive a suspect test before Woger, as long as we're cutting away at the problematic threats the metagame is offering then I think we're all happy.
As for Gliscor? I honestly don't think it's a problem at all. With Foger gone, we're focusing on removing the other three problematic threats in the tier and gradually coming to a place of stability where we will have more tools to adapt to it. Right now any counterplay we can offer struggles to keep up with Bloona, Manaphy, and Woger; the sooner we remove them the lesser Gliscor will appear to be an issue.
very glad firepon is gone, was incredibly restrictive. appreciate the council for running things so quickly.
these 2 guys are next up on my personal radar, and i would want either of them suspected sometime after the survey results are published, whichever got the highest response (assuming they got 3.5+). both are awkwardly bulky and can be very restrictive with their setup sets. personally i am not 100% decided on if i'd want either of them banned but i think deciding between these 2 as suspect candidates in the upcoming weeks would be the best move for the tier's health.
this mon is just not broken to me, the speed holds it back so much and there are so many other strong grounds that it needs to compete with. i think the meta will take time to adapt to it by running fewer choiced ghosts, more techs like balloon ghold/tran, and defensively a wider range of spdef walls besides glowking or clod. sets on mons like scizor and heatran made to speedcreep gambit will need to add a few extra EVs, and defensive pokemon may need protect/substitute/encore more often to limit luna. screens teams will fully commit to alolatales and rain will continue to rise to limit luna (and clef's) longetivity. overall there are many small adaptations that i expect to see in the meta that will make ursa-bm seem weaker than it currently does.
Welcome to Gen 5. In all seriousness, I think some of this will fizzle out over time. It's pretty much expected at this point for new or radically updated tiers to have overcentralizing playstyles. I have a hard time seeing things leveling out with Ninetales-A in the tier though tbh.
Sorry for the obvious question but technically you are sending to UBER the Mask like Mega Stones for Lucario, Gengard and such righ???
you can still use other ogerpons if that is what you are asking
just like a lower tier can ban one silvally, but not all of them
I mean if the Item is banned technically but yeah stil ty Finch Inator
No, the item triggers a form, which is what is tiered on its own rather than with the collective. The form is what is banned by definition. The item triggers the form and we are just arguing semantics at this point though
you do know this thing has scrappy right lmao? very little of what you mentioned is actually effective luna counterplay besdies protect and encore
this mon is just not broken to me, the speed holds it back so much and there are so many other strong grounds that it needs to compete with. i think the meta will take time to adapt to it by running fewer choiced ghosts, more techs like balloon ghold/tran, and defensively a wider range of spdef walls besides glowking or clod. sets on mons like scizor and heatran made to speedcreep gambit will need to add a few extra EVs, and defensive pokemon may need protect/substitute/encore more often to limit luna. screens teams will fully commit to alolatales and rain will continue to rise to limit luna (and clef's) longetivity. overall there are many small adaptations that i expect to see in the meta that will make ursa-bm seem weaker than it currently does.
he's spitting.
as usual the only people whining about smogon's system are the people who are not a part of the community and do not give a shit about what happens other than to bitch about it.
I have a question about the interaction between booster energy and sticky web, specially Iron Valiant in this case.
At 0 IVs, 0 EVs on Atk and Spa, Valiant have 265 and 245 in each stats.
With -Atk nature, Valiant have 238 Atk.
With -Spa nature, Valiant have 220 Spa.
However, by running one of these nature, the other one cannot be lowered.
+Spe Nature Valiant max speed is 364.
At -1 speed from web, +Spe Valiant speed is 242.
As Quark Drive activate AFTER web lower Valiant's speed, and after -1, valiant stat would either be
238/245/242
or
265/220/242.
Booster speed should never boost its speed as it is never the highest stat, however in testing I found out that at least the min Atk set CAN get booster speed, which is really weird since on the Calc, quark drive is activated for spa and not speed.
How is it possible that valiant can get a speed boost from booster energy?
At 0 IVs, 0 EVs on Atk and Spa, Valiant have 265 and 245 in each stats.
With -Atk nature, Valiant have 238 Atk.
With -Spa nature, Valiant have 220 Spa.
However, by running one of these nature, the other one cannot be lowered.
+Spe Nature Valiant max speed is 364.
At -1 speed from web, +Spe Valiant speed is 242.
As Quark Drive activate AFTER web lower Valiant's speed, and after -1, valiant stat would either be
238/245/242
or
265/220/242.
Booster speed should never boost its speed as it is never the highest stat, however in testing I found out that at least the min Atk set CAN get booster speed, which is really weird since on the Calc, quark drive is activated for spa and not speed.
How is it possible that valiant can get a speed boost from booster energy?
yes, i know...? im assuming youre referring to the lines you bolded, so ill elaborate on them,
fewer choiced ghosts - luna-bm does not safely switch in on many things, but scarf ghold and specs pult revenge killing with shadow ball easily allow luna in afterwards. by running alternative sets like air balloon ghold and boots/lefties/lifeorb/band+darts/spelltag pult, luna will be much more limited in its opportunities to switch in, especially if spikes are up or it's already been chipped
balloon on ghold/tran - balloon tran is a safe switchin to luna-bm and forces it to spend a turn using a resisted move to pop the balloon, giving tran time to start magmatecting. balloon ghold similarly tanks a hit since steel resists normal even through scrappy, and so it threatens with focusblast/makeitrain/tera flying the turn after.
both of these are adaptations that turn an otherwise losing matchup into a trade at worst and a check at best, which is the way you play around these absurdly strong but slow guys.
Anyone else think the Ogerpon forms make Gambit a worse Tera user? Feel like the free +1 stat boost they gain (specifically the water one) gives them a higher net benefit from Tera than Gambit. On Oger + Gambit teams, it seems like Oger is more scary than Gambit because of the higher net benefit it gets from Tera, which leaves Gambit more vulnerable to its normal counterplay.
Boots and spell Dragapult is way too weak to handle BM, while life orb is really bad outright. Band isn't great because you have no ghost stab without terastilising and spelltag. And spikes while useful, aren't as automatic at stopping it because BM has recovery.
Balloon Ghold is constantly walking a tightrope and often gets its balloon popped so it's not going to be reliable long-term counterplay. Heatran isn't even very good right now.
Dumb ban. These bans are really taking the fun out of Showdown.
This isn’t the sick burn you think it is. Most of us aren’t losers and spend our days terminally online playing a game that isn’t even officially supported. We have lives you know. I’d bet most people complaining aren’t even aware of the survey and just want to have fun. Instead the council are a bunch of babies and QB a Pokémon because it destroys their favorite. That sounds like a skill issue to me. Some of us just want to play some matches with our favorite Pokémon after a long day but now are forced to waste time building teams or playing a different format where that Pokémon is worse. Don’t like your favorite Pokémon getting destroyed? Go play UU or a lower tier. Not everyone that complains is trying to hate. Maybe if the people that are in charge spent less time arguing over an unofficial fan game and let us have fun, there wouldn’t be any negative reactions.
It takes 2 minutes to fill out the survey lol.
If you have such disdain for this "unsupported game" I'm not sure why you even care what goes on in Smogon 6v6 lol. Battle Stadium Singles, VGC, and Draft are all right there and the former two are also Game Freak supported so I'd suggest having fun in those instead of complaining a meta that you have no interest in in the first place.
I’m of the opinion that we should be doing more quick bans lol, it’s the only way to counteract gamefreaks nonsense at this point
best ban since the original Chien Pao ban. Great work council - love this news!
You're more than welcome to "have fun". If it matters to you so little where you can't take 2 minutes to voice your opinion in a constructive way, then you have no business droning on about the decision that was made. This is totally baseless and out of pocket.
Quickban or even suspect for Midaphy would be a joke. Mon is worse than anything in the OU top 10
Bloodmon DOES deserve a suspect, imo specifically the fact that it has vacuum wave really is a little much. Shit hits WAY too hard for a 40 BP non stab move, and that having priority is inappropriate
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Yeah, quickbans are definitely good for the game. Rapid-fire surveys like this can be used to produce suspects *for* said quickban, but any time you see something over 3.75 qualified or so?
Just signal the council and get things moving. Even if it would be "ideal" to let people vote, the three weeks of a new meta gained by a council vote are just far too valuable.
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