Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Heatranator]

Let me be real

"What does XYZ bring to the tier" is about the stupidest point one can make that isn't relevant to solely one specific mon. It implies that we keep things OU not because they aren't determined to be broken, but rather because of an overarching design in what we want the metagame to look like. As far as I'm aware, we don't tier based on vibes, but if that's changed since we banned Naganadel, do let me know.
Usage, the value itself not important whether it be 3.5% or 4.6% or something else entirely, determines if something rises or drops, and unless it's a fucking monster in one tier and utter shit in the tier above it, we don't change what tier it is unless its usage warrants us to. When it is that unique case, we vote on if it should be banned, and if it's voted out, we don't make it the tier above just because, but stick it on the banlist, like reasonable people, by considering whether or not it's real uncompetitive, be its ability to OHKO fucking Blissey with a special attack, or its ability to 6-0 a team weak to it, or the move in question making the opponent's attacks never hit, ever. Yeah I'm a little salty about Kyurem's ban.
At no point did we, or should we, ask what the thing in question brings to the tier. It's a question that implies that the thing isn't broken, but rather just undesirable to some vocal people, because its never asked as a first question. It's always a last resort, asked so that whatever the answer may be, the asker can say that, "the things it brings are covered by mons in the meta already," to paraphrase. Such an answer implies that not only can we have one single way to do those things, but also that the mon being asked about is assumed broken from the get go. This isn't to imply that we should think of literally everything as Not-Broken from the start, because believe me some things are just too much even for Ubers, much less here, but rather that we shouldn't jump the gun and keep things banned because they were banned once before.
Who gives a shit what Blaziken brought to Gen 8 OU, when it wasn't even good enough to end the generation in OU? It ended in UUBL I had to check.
Point is, actually argue on whether or not something is broken, rather than waffle on about how, "oh it doesnt matter what volcarona brings since its defensive utility is covered by other things, wheh."

P.S. how the fuck do i change my name dynamax isnt even a thing anymore

Edit: thanks kosecant

Although you have a good point about how we shouldn't ban something because it doesn't bring much to the metagame, for unbanning it is a little more complicated. The reason why people say "what does XYZ bring to the tier" is because it needs to be compared to what it won't bring to the tier. What I mean by that is will the overall impact of a pokemon be a positive or negative influence on the metagame. Sure, a defensive pokemon brings a lot to the tier and checks a lot of threats, that's cool, but if it means that picking any other defensive pokemon is going to make your team much worse or the metagame has to use otherwise mediocre pokemon to beat it over better overall pokemon, that isn't good.
We can't know what pokemon will be broken, we can only infer. But until the metagame calms down after the initial wave of bans, very few pokemon should be unbanned to not have another crown tundra crisis. It may be the prime time to test these pokemon, but it doesn't mean that it will be good for the metagame. We have to think both short term and long term. Focus on one too much, and the metagame becomes horrible.

 

[LOOR]

I am going to state the perhaps controversial opinion that this meta has actually improved with every ban we have done!

Don't get me wrong, zap/ting/glow meta is awful too. But for all the reasons that have been stated in every suspect thread up until this point, pokemon like Roaring Moon, Gliscor, and Sneasler made this meta worse, and it is better now without them. For every defense of how "Roaring moon had healthy adaptations" and "Gliscor wasn't that bad!" that I hear, I can come up with twice as much counterplay to zap/ting/glow cores and manaphy/waterpon/rillaboom/zamazenta/etc. Not to say that all of these mons should remain in the tier, but they are not as bad as everything we've banned!

The reason we've ended up at zap/ting/glow meta twice is because the timing of DLC drops prevent is from developing further each time. I will GLADLY vote to ban every stupid mon in the survey, reach the same zap/ting/glow meta again (and I'm sure we'll have even more balanced tools to break this core), and I will GLADLY vote to ban more mons to improve the zap/ting/glow meta further. From a teambuilding perspective, I feel much more freedom now than I did a month ago, and I wish that progress could've continued.

Just keep in mind that pokemon like Bax absolutely deserved to be booted from this tier within a week. 4.64/5 on survey and unanimous ban votes from council mean to me that this pokemon did NOT deserve any more time in OU than it got. Don't be so tilted over zap/ting/glow cores that you would drop this stupid monster. Bax is just one example, don't forget how much support there was to quickban mons like sneasler, how many voters wanted to get rid of Roaring Moon and Ursaluna-BloodMoon. I firmly believe the path forward to a better meta lies with MORE bans, not less, and no unbans.

obviously not a response to my post but just wanted to comment on a few things and use my own post as a reference

in terms of the the gliscor wasnt that bad part, i dont feel people are really claiming this. in my post i mentioned how the meta with gliscor felt more skill intensive than the current zap/ting stuff, which isn't really stating that i think gliscor wasnt broken, moreso that I feel that meta was slightly more competitive. obviously, banning gliscor was probably the right play and the issue is really the lack of follow up bans but thats a timing issue. I do agree that this meta will probably need more, not less, bans to reach a solid state but at the moment i feel the gliscor conversation is more of a open mindedness to give it another shot in DLC2 rather than "it wasnt that bad to begin with".

while i do believe we will eventually need to have a good amount of bans for the tier to be well rounded, i think its pretty unfair to not unban anything. sure most of them are probably still going to end up with the axe *cough* bax, but given that we are now going to be entering what it is the final product of SV OU, we might as well give a few things a fair shake just to see.

 

[Soiramio3000]

What dissapoints me about the upcoming dlc is that there is not a single leak about the moves that are coming.
It may take longer to implement the new content in pokemon showdown than usual.

Anyway, does anyone else use quaquaval?

I use it as a sweeper with electric tera-blast, ice spinner(physical bolt-beam is awesome) aqua step and close combat.

It is an underrated mon.

 

[Magcargo]

What dissapoints me about the upcoming dlc is that there is not a single leak about the moves that are coming.
It may take longer to implement the new content in pokemon showdown than usual.

Anyway, does anyone else use quaquaval?

I use it as a sweeper with electric tera-blast, ice spinner(physical bolt-beam is awesome) aqua step and close combat.

It is an underrated mon.

Probably the ladder mon I am the most scared to face.

When my main Water resist is Zapdos.... dealing with Quaquaval can be quite a challenge, especially when it whips out Tera Flying Brave Bird, Knock Off, Ice Spinner Aqua Jet, Taunt, Tera Steel SD, Tera Fairy Bulk Up, etc. etc..

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

What dissapoints me about the upcoming dlc is that there is not a single leak about the moves that are coming.
It may take longer to implement the new content in pokemon showdown than usual.

i could be wrong, but i don't think they're going to start implementing stuff based on leaks before the dlc actually drops. i only remember something like that happening once—during isle of armor (or armour, i suppose, since it's british), the folks in charge of randbats decided to implement a bunch of new sets based on very credible-looking pokemon home leaks, including high horsepower azumarill and the tapus with their terrain moves, and it was pretty embarrassing for everyone involved when they turned out to be wrong. that should serve as an example as to why we shouldn't be trusting any info from anyone until after release. also, nothing leaked about moves before teal mask—half the movepool changes i found out about from this forum on the day of release—and everyone did a fine job of implementing that in a timely fashion. but you do have a bit of a point—type 19 might take longer to code in than usual depending on what the hell exactly it is, which we still don't actually have the faintest idea of yet. don't despair, though! remember that revival blessing wasn't coded in for ages and the meta went on without it. remember that sometimes things are coded in before they've been 100% extensively studied—steely spirit (originally did nothing in singles before they found out it boosted the user too), snipe shot (originally didn't have a high crit chance), protosynthesis and quark drive (originally gave a 1.5x boost to any stat), the genie moves (originally didn't bypass accuracy checks in rain), and hell, i still don't know whether iron fist and punching glove stack because i keep getting conflicting answers. the point is, the good people responsible for showdown know how to get their homework done on time

 

[TR_Admin]

Can we unban Solgaleo ?
It has a bad typing and mediocre ability.
Future Port is outclassed by and is not as good as last gen anyways with and .
Its stats are fine with power crept.

 

[Magcargo]

Can we unban Solgaleo ?
It has a bad typing and mediocre ability.
Future Port is outclassed by and is not as good as last gen anyways with and .
Its stats are fine with power crept.

I'm actually for testing Solgaleo too but lets not get ahead of ourselves and call it "mediocre" and "outclassed" by GKing, Gambit, and Ghold. Its likely to be broken and probably will be banned within the first month. Players are complaining about being way too bulky and Solgaleo puts Dengo to shame with its 137 / 107 / 89 bulk, which is insane by OU standards, with only Ting-Lu as a good comparison point. Its attack stat is still high and it has amazing coverage + reliable recovery leaving it with limited switch ins. Even Dengo and Gambit have to be wary of Flare Blitz. Furthermore, it still is a strong setup wincon similar to the likes of Ursaluna BM, albiet with far less immediate power. Augmenting this is G-Terrain, which would remove its Ground weakness and give it free lefties recovery, letting it run a strong bulky Calm mind set with either Grassy Seed or Leftovers.

To me, I'd say its worth a test since those stats, while well rounded, just feels like Metagross with Extra steps, but I'm a shitty evaluator of these uber powerful legendaries. Its very likely this Pokemon will be very overwhelming in practice. Even if it doesn't wind up in the initial slate of unbanned Pokemon, I'm sure it'll find a great home in UUbers when the time comes.

 

[Cuddly]

Can we unban Solgaleo ?
It has a bad typing and mediocre ability.
Future Port is outclassed by and is not as good as last gen anyways with and .
Its stats are fine with power crept.

Maybe, I'm more leaning towards being too good for OU.
This thing has 137/107/89 bulk while packing an attack stat higher than Kingambit and serviceable speed and SpA (Psychic off some investment can easily OHKO Great Tusk, which Solgaleo can outspeed easily for example). I think it'd come down to movepool additions and subtractions.

 

[Heatranator]

I've lost three games in a row from missing dual wingbeat on my choice scarf salamence, including a game against a lead ribombee, which lead to me getting paralyzed by stun spore and losing the game due to it being no way to outspeed. Gamefreak, why did you create a 80 bp move and decide to give it 90% accuracy? Surf and flamethrower are 90bp with 100% accuracy for petes sake, just give us a non-brave bird good physical flying stab.

 

[TR_Admin]

Maybe, I'm more leaning towards being too good for OU.
This thing has 137/107/89 bulk while packing an attack stat higher than Kingambit and serviceable speed and SpA (Psychic off some investment can easily OHKO Great Tusk, which Solgaleo can outspeed easily for example). I think it'd come down to movepool additions and subtractions.

Psychic/Steel is not a good offensive typing though, getting completely walled by Steel. Psychic also lacks a good physical move. I doubt it's better than Offensive which can also boost its speed/atk and has better Stabs. The other pokemon we might drop from Ubers look a lot scarier imo.

 

[Cuddly]

I've lost three games in a row from missing dual wingbeat on my choice scarf salamence, including a game against a lead ribombee, which lead to me getting paralyzed by stun spore and losing the game due to it being no way to outspeed. Gamefreak, why did you create a 80 bp move and decide to give it 90% accuracy? Surf and flamethrower are 90bp with 100% accuracy for petes sake, just give us a non-brave bird good physical flying stab.

I can't tell you how many games I'v lost or got massively disadvantaged because of Leech Seed or Toxic missing. Or Draco Meteor or Leaf Storm, or what ever move that has 0 business not having 100% accuracy. I understand there is an unlikely chance this stuff will be "fixed" by GameFreak or Smogon, but I wish it would happen like with Will-o-wisp in Gen 5 or Freeze Clause being implemented in older generations.

Psychic/Steel is not a good offensive typing though, getting completely walled by Steel. Psychic also lacks a good physical move. I doubt it's better than Offensive which can also boost its speed/atk and has better Stabs. The other pokemon we might drop from Ubers look a lot scarier imo.

Thing is that Solgeleo has a pretty diverse movepool and can do a lot of things. It can use Choice Band, Choice Scarf, all out attacker, defensive, mixed attacker (LO or Expert Belt), set up sweeper with Calm Mind, has access to (assuming it gets these moves again) Sunsteel Beam, Close Combat, Earthquake, Knock Off, Flare Blitz, Heat Crash, Flame Charge, Flamethrower, Future Sight, Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Wild Charge, Stone Edge, Endeavor, Steel Beam, Teleport, Morning Sun, and Calm Mind.
The problem is kind of like Manaphy 10 fold. You don't know what it's going to do until it likely gets a KO or does massive damage.
It having less wallbreaking potential than some other Pokemon is not that much of a concern tbh. With coverage moves, its not that hard to beat its checks. Gholdengo? Knock Off or Earthquake or Heat Crash. Heatran? Earthquake or Close Combat. Dondozo? Thunderbolt on Mixed/Special sets. It's more so how bulky it is naturally at taking hits, and can easily nab a KO. I mean look at this shit.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 342-404 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For reference;
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Ice: 254-302 (74.4 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah Solgaleo tanks hits a bit too well and seeing how frail the metagame is regularly, it may be too "degenerate" for the OU Metagame.

 

[Akalli]

I am going to state the perhaps controversial opinion that this meta has actually improved with every ban we have done!

Wanted to touch on that part a little bit, props to the council for how they’ve handled the shitshow that this metagame was a couple months ago. I don’t think in all my time playing Pokémon I have seen a meta game as insufferable, unplayable as this was. Every single game in SCL ended in less than 10 turns and were frankly unwatchable. The OLT final four was arguably the strongest group of players we’ve ever had and the quality of games was simply disappointing and forgettable. (Obviously not a knock of the players whatsoever, the metagame literally forced HO and they all played great). I think the current meta
game is far from perfect but it simply isn’t realistic to blame it on anyone but gamefreak with DLC timings kinda stopping any possible tiering. These weren’t easy decisions to make, especially Roaring Moon/Sneasler quickbans and we were able to achieve somewhat of a playable metagame for a good minute now. I’m excited to finally enter a state where we can tier without having DLCs around the corner to « scratch » all the work done. So yeah, props to the council and also the player base for making the right decisions but I also echo Verts post, I don’t agree with all of it but the Zapdos/Slowking part is spot on.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Solgaleo in OU. What the fuck would it even do?

Like... it will 100% get Teleport because Nebby gets that move. It got Future Sight with a SpAtk stat of 113. 137/107/89 bulk is insane and it got 137 Attack. It's speed stat is also 97 -- which is fast enough to be good. It's literally just a better version of Metagross to be completely honest with you. But like... what would it even do? It's not like Teleport is gonna break the thing. This is probably OU material unless it gets a miracle move to ban it.

 

[YubelVT]

I'm somewhat interested in trying Solgaleo in OU after re-evaluating what it has and not just remembering what duskmane does, but what are some other ubers you all are interested in dropping/testing for a bit? I'm personally interested in testing Reshiram (provided it doesn't get like, Victory Dance or Nasty Plot). It's bulky and it's strong but it's also a fire type. I don't know if it would be broken or not, it probably would be, but I want my girl to have her day in the sun so to speak

 

[JunkoAJ]

I don't check Smogon on the weekends so I'm only just doing my survey oops

1 - Bulk Up Taunt will not be any healthier.
2 - Doesn't rly need to come back, i'm not sure what would return to check it but it's slightly healthier than Ape
5 - Was arguably fine before depending on what side of the hazard stacking problem you felt was more problematic, pls ban Dengo
1 - I highly doubt it'll be any more balanced than it was when it was banned in SS
2 - Funny club girl probably doesn't need to come back but she's cute so idm
2 - Has a few more checks now, namely but I still don't think it has any place here
3 - I think it might not be as overwhelming once power creep pulls up but that's TBC
2 - I mean, maybe?? But no, it's very unbalanced
1 - Lol.
2 - Idk I guess if u really want to
5 - Shouldn't have been banned in the first place I think
3 - Could be ok, still a lil bit strong but DLC will hopefully bring more things that can deal with it
3 - I honestly do not have an opinion so I just went in the middle

Maaaaaaybe? Could be funny

 

[YubelVT]

2 - Has a few more checks now, namely but I still don't think it has any place here

Counterpoint:
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Yes palafin is slower but it's not exactly difficult to predict that your opponent will send in the thing that walls your palafin

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Maaaaaaybe? Could be an idea worth testing

please no. this thing is running rampant in uubers. the only thing that actually reliably beats it is dondozo because it turns out that ground tera blast is horrifyingly good coverage on fairy-types.

i feel like dropping zamazenta, although ultimately the right move, has set a bad precedent where everything that's bad in ubers is now subject to discussion about drops despite them being ridiculous by ou standards. worse, people also seem to be conflating "directly outclassed in ubers" with "bad in ubers". yes, zacian is never used in ubers because zacian-crowned is a direct upgrade. yes, no one uses solgaleo because dusk mane is better in every desirable way. that doesn't make them acceptable in ou and the fact that box legendaries are entering into the discussion this frequently is troubling

 

[658Greninja]

Can we not make this gen early XY OU?

Solgaleo? Lugia? Giratina? Zacian? If you wanted to play with bad ubers, UU Ubers was created just for that.

252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 350-412 (87.5 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 304-358 (80.4 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Great Tusk: 157-186 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 207-244 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

137 Atk with Steel Type EQ, 137/107/89 bulk, 97 speed. Perfect coverage.

And to sum up just how bulky this thing is, this

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 366-432 (88.1 - 104%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Isn’t even guaranteed to kill it, without investment.

Solgaleo is fat enough to shrug off Headlong Rushes, Pyro Balls from bulky Cinder, and Knock Offs. This is all without going over Tera which makes it even harder to kill.


I don’t care how power crept this gen is, we are not dropping broken mascot legendaries.

 

[YubelVT]

please no. this thing is running rampant in uubers. the only thing that actually reliably beats it is dondozo because it turns out that ground tera blast is horrifyingly good coverage on fairy-types.

i feel like dropping zamazenta, although ultimately the right move, has set a bad precedent where everything that's bad in ubers is now subject to discussion about drops despite them being ridiculous by ou standards. worse, people also seem to be conflating "directly outclassed in ubers" with "bad in ubers". yes, zacian is never used in ubers because zacian-crowned is a direct upgrade. yes, no one uses solgaleo because dusk mane is better in every desirable way. that doesn't make them acceptable in ou and the fact that box legendaries are entering into the discussion this frequently is troubling

UUBers :handshake: Ubers
Donbozo stuffing every single physical attacker in the tier

Also shoutouts to woodgoldtwo for being supportive of everyone (even the people with bad opinions). We should strive to be more like them.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Can we not make this gen early XY OU?

Solgaleo? Lugia? Giratina? Zacian? If you wanted to play with bad ubers, UU Ubers was created just for that.

Early XY OU was a fuckin shitshow lmfao. Deoxys Attack, Mega Gengar and Kangaskhan and Salamence, Aegislash, DARKRAI. As a below average OU player, I cannot deny nor confirm whether this will be a balanced thing for the tier. But will it be funny to see the chaos unfold? ABSOLUTELY.

Its not about the practicality 658Greninja -- I'm In It For The Chaos

 

[apoteosis]

will be a fantastic stored power sweeper under grass terrain, calling it now

 

[TR_Admin]

I can't tell you how many games I'v lost or got massively disadvantaged because of Leech Seed or Toxic missing. Or Draco Meteor or Leaf Storm, or what ever move that has 0 business not having 100% accuracy. I understand there is an unlikely chance this stuff will be "fixed" by GameFreak or Smogon, but I wish it would happen like with Will-o-wisp in Gen 5 or Freeze Clause being implemented in older generations.

Thing is that Solgeleo has a pretty diverse movepool and can do a lot of things. It can use Choice Band, Choice Scarf, all out attacker, defensive, mixed attacker (LO or Expert Belt), set up sweeper with Calm Mind, has access to (assuming it gets these moves again) Sunsteel Beam, Close Combat, Earthquake, Knock Off, Flare Blitz, Heat Crash, Flame Charge, Flamethrower, Future Sight, Psychic, Zen Headbutt, Wild Charge, Stone Edge, Endeavor, Steel Beam, Teleport, Morning Sun, and Calm Mind.
The problem is kind of like Manaphy 10 fold. You don't know what it's going to do until it likely gets a KO or does massive damage.
It having less wallbreaking potential than some other Pokemon is not that much of a concern tbh. With coverage moves, its not that hard to beat its checks. Gholdengo? Knock Off or Earthquake or Heat Crash. Heatran? Earthquake or Close Combat. Dondozo? Thunderbolt on Mixed/Special sets. It's more so how bulky it is naturally at taking hits, and can easily nab a KO. I mean look at this shit.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 342-404 (82.4 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For reference;
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Ice: 254-302 (74.4 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah Solgaleo tanks hits a bit too well and seeing how frail the metagame is regularly, it may be too "degenerate" for the OU Metagame.

It has 27 more speed and is bulkier and deals basically the same damage as Metagross, a RU Pokemon in Gen 8:

252 Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 135-160 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 153-180 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 73.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-212 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-214 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 366-432 (88.1 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 308-366 (102.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But there are many bulky attackers this gen like
Solgaleo would just be another strong one that can't even boost its atk stat.

 

[JunkoAJ]

i feel like dropping zamazenta, although ultimately the right move, has set a bad precedent where everything that's bad in ubers is now subject to discussion about drops despite them being ridiculous by ou standards.

Solgaleo? Lugia? Giratina? Zacian? If you wanted to play with bad ubers, UU Ubers was created just for that.
I don’t care how power crept this gen is, we are not dropping broken mascot legendaries.

While I largely agree and most bad Ubers shouldn't be in OU (no, Arceus-Bug doesn't need to come to OU), it's not about them having been broken before, it's about would they be broken in OU now, which is what these tests and surveys are for (although yh Zacian-H is pretty good in UUbers as is, I didn't look into that)

 

[YubelVT]

It has 27 more speed and is bulkier and deals basically the same damage as Metagross, a RU Pokemon in Gen 8:

252 Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 135-160 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 153-180 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 73.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-212 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-214 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 366-432 (88.1 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 308-366 (102.3 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

But there are many bulky attackers this gen like
Solgaleo would just be another strong one that can't even boost its atk stat.

Solgaleo learns work up smh my head ur point is entirely invalid.

In all seriousness, I think solgaleo is worth trying even if it ends up being overpowered. It's one of a list of like 5 ubers that fall into that.

I feel like posting the list now along with some former members that got a move that made them leave the list
The list (not ordered in terms of power or viability)
5. Solgaleo
4. Reshiram
3. Genesect
2. Zen Mode G-Darm (just ban gorilla tactics you cowards)
1. Naganadel (this one is the most questionable)

Former members of the list:
-Zekrom (got Dragon Dance)
-Deoxys-Defense (maybe we shouldn't let better Toxapex into the tier)

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Psychic/Steel is not a good offensive typing though, getting completely walled by Steel. Psychic also lacks a good physical move. I doubt it's better than Offensive which can also boost its speed/atk and has better Stabs. The other pokemon we might drop from Ubers look a lot scarier imo.

On the other hand, it has flare blitz, which perfectly covers psychic/steel, morning sun for recovery, and a much better defensive typing, meaning it sticks around for much longer. Personally I am much more scared of it than I am offensive tusk