Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Return to Zero]

I've seen this and similar sentiments around Blaziken in this thread for some reason and I just don't get it. This isn't gen8. Slowbro and Toxapex are nowhere to be seen in relevant play, Go through the list of S through B+ mons and you'll find that defensive checks are basically Skele and Dozo, and Dragonite. Great Tusk isn't gonna be reliable in a tera meta since Blaziken can tech for it now, which also lets it slam Dragonite. And speaking of Dragonite, unless you tera normal instantly or already terad, +2 Blaziken can slam it through multiscale with ice tera.

Regarding hazards, this is a mon primarily seen on aggressive offensive teams, sepecially HO, which doesn't see it switch around much if at all. I don't see this being an issue. Priority picking it off? Probably after chip. But...

252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Blaziken: 131-155 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 385-454 (119.1 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 385-454 (119.1 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now i'm not sure if it'll be broken day one, if at all, but downplaying this mon like has been happening is seriously crazy.

This is likely the most powercrept meta in terms of Speed and I don't think Blaziken needs to be checked defensively. As a reminder, Adamant Blaziken with max investment hits 259 Speed, and 388 after one turn of Speed Boost (Jolly is a consideration if you want but that makes Swords Dance mandatory and Swords Dance is gonna be hard to do). Most Great Tusk sets outspeed this thing. Dragapult still outspeeds it after one turn of boosting. Booster Energy Iron Valiant outspeeds it after two. Why would Dragonite bother using Tera Normal for this thing when Dragon/Flying resists both STABs, it already knows Earthquake, and Blaziken cannot threaten it unless it also has Tera? (Fire move)/Close Combat/Tera Blast/Swords Dance prohibits Protect so this thing is begging for a faster pivot to come on or get knocked out by what's on the field already. Opportunities for this thing to actually safely set up a Swords Dance are gonna be hard to come by when the top offensive threats get similar results while also being capable of threatening it in return.

I don't think it's gonna be like, NU or whatever. UUBL like last gen is probably a safe bet. But no way is this thing gonna be a consistent OU presence.

I dont think many people are saying its gonna be an uber tier world beater. But with tera it has potential to blow holes in teams and be a great wall breaker depending on the moves it will get. Its can also potentially be an end game sweeper if you chip the rest of the team and play well.

If it gets Knock Off again, it can remove valuable items on its counters like Dondozo and Skeledirge. This makes making progress much more easier especially if you are able to get hazards up. Using the rest of your team to chip them down until you start breaking the opponent team.

It doesn’t always have to sweep but just that potential of being able to makes its very dangerous. Tera Fly Acrobatics for Tusk, Tera Electric Thunder Punch for Toxapex and Dondozo, Tera Dark Jolly Knock Off for Pult and Dirge. There are many other possibilities that I haven’t even mentioned. I think its suited for todays offensive focused metagame.

Although its utility will be heavily dependent on its movepool. (Use Blaze Kick and Low Kick if you dont wanna be as vulnerable)

I don't think Blaziken won't have a niche. I'm just commenting on how some people here have said it's going to be a possible Uber, while my opinion is that i's probably not even going to be OU. Tera Dark Jolly Knock Off and Tera Flying Acrobatics with Grassy Seed to make it a diet Sneasler will probably be the play with this thing.

By the way, Tera Electric Thunder Punch is a 3HKO on Dozo without Leftovers. If you wanna beat Dozo and Pex, you use a Special set. That's the big bucks.

 

[MegaScizor32]

This is likely the most powercrept meta in terms of Speed and I don't think Blaziken needs to be checked defensively. As a reminder, Adamant Blaziken with max investment hits 259 Speed, and 388 after one turn of Speed Boost (Jolly is a consideration if you want but that makes Swords Dance mandatory and Swords Dance is gonna be hard to do). Most Great Tusk sets outspeed this thing. Dragapult still outspeeds it after one turn of boosting. Booster Energy Iron Valiant outspeeds it after two. Why would Dragonite bother using Tera Normal for this thing when Dragon/Flying resists both STABs, it already knows Earthquake, and Blaziken cannot threaten it unless it also has Tera? (Fire move)/Close Combat/Tera Blast/Swords Dance prohibits Protect so this thing is begging for a faster pivot to come on or get knocked out by what's on the field already. Opportunities for this thing to actually safely set up a Swords Dance are gonna be hard to come by when the top offensive threats get similar results while also being capable of threatening it in return.

I don't think it's gonna be like, NU or whatever. UUBL like last gen is probably a safe bet. But no way is this thing gonna be a consistent OU presence.

I don't think Blaziken won't have a niche. I'm just commenting on how some people here have said it's going to be a possible Uber, while my opinion is that i's probably not even going to be OU. Tera Dark Jolly Knock Off and Tera Flying Acrobatics with Grassy Seed to make it a diet Sneasler will probably be the play with this thing.

By the way, Tera Electric Thunder Punch is a 3HKO on Dozo without Leftovers. If you wanna beat Dozo and Pex, you use a Special set. That's the big bucks.

I can see it being OU since the metagame is so fast paced, so long as it gets Knock Off. It’ll be good on Webs, Hazard Stack, and straight up Hyper Offense. Grassy Terrain and Aurora Veil could also be good.

As for Donbozo it beats every Physical Attacker not named Iron Hands, Rillaboom, Waterpon and Rockpon (provided it hasnt tera’d), so nothing really new, just beat it with special attackers.

 

[Return to Zero]

As for Donbozo it beats every Physical Attacker not named Iron Hands, Rillaboom, Waterpon and Rockpon (provided it hasnt tera’d), so nothing really new, just beat it with special attackers.

Oh, no, you misunderstand. Blaziken has 110 Sp.A and (in the last generation) a pretty good movepool to take advantage of it with. I mean you can totally use special Blaziken as a mixup to catch Dondozo off-guard.

 

[MegaScizor32]

Oh, no, you misunderstand. Blaziken has 110 Sp.A and (in the last generation) a pretty good movepool to take advantage of it with. I mean you can totally use special Blaziken as a mixup to catch Dondozo off-guard.

Maybe on a sun team but not as viable outside of that since you would have to use Solar Beam or even worse Focus Blast. I would stick to being a physical attacker and have other dedicated special attackers.

 

[Heatranator]

:nerd:☝ Emboar is actually neautral to rock not resistant

In all seriousness though y'all are definitely sleeping on serp. As seen with talonflame (who coincidentally has one less base special attack than serp), a mid at best special attack stat can be compensated for almost completely with a 120 STAB Move, and Serp's gets stronger every time it uses it. And going off of its gen 7 move pool (which is probably wrong but what else can I do lmao), it has a pretty wide utility movepool even if its attacking options are mid outside of leaf storm. Taunt, glare, defog, knock off, even sub seed. I think serp, while definitely not as strong as it was in past gens, will still be pretty good in OU, provided h-goodra doesn't suddenly get a massive stat buff and become genuinely good as opposed to niche.

I was talking about that zamazenta was resistant to rock, which is one of, it not the bulkiest pokemon in OU.

That's an interesting ev spread. Where did you get it from? I was interested in messing around with primarina sets because it's a Mon I like, and I'm wondering what that investment achieves.

Also on the topic of starters, I wonder if Serperior would want to run Dragon Pulse on top of Tera Fire Tera Blast and Leaf Storm for better neutral coverage, like how Firepon sometimes ran Play Rough for dragons, or if it's not worth the effort. You'd still get walled hard by the likes of Dirge, but you'd also be able to hit things like Dnite that would give you trouble otherwise.

Oh, that was just the N-Dex Defensive set on the showdown calculator.

 

[Morkal]

I think this will be quite fun on Sun teams - strong niche as always, Venusaur's viability is tied to Sun's viability and that viability will likely be tied together for the foreseeable future.

Shell Smash, but I think that Torterra is gonna remain a better Shell Smash abuser out of the starters. Tera might give it some additional surprise factor, however.

The key to Meganium getting any additional viability will either be a stat buff/typing addition (Grass/Fairy as many have stated in the thread), but there could be a potential niche for it depending on the support moves that it gets.

Feraligatr is gonna be great, and Swords Dance/Dragon Dance Sheer Force with Tera is just beautiful. Extremely excited for chompy boi to come back to compliment my offensive teams.

Sceptile has a ton of potential thanks to its speed and movepool but always came up short due to its offenses, I hope that it gets some additional utility moves to capitalize on that speed if it doesn't get a stat boost/typing change.

If Darkrai is part of the DLC2 OU drops, Protect - Speed Boost is gonna be pretty common early on while the early-meta-panic sets in. As for whether or not I think Blaziken will be broken, I'm still on the fence at the moment; on one hand, Speed Boost with usable offenses, a good movepool, and the ability to change typing with Tera is wonderful, but on the other hand - it gets worn down so easy and wants to run a bunch of different options at once. I think it'll end up B or B+ viability in OU when all is said and done.

If it gets Spikes, it'll be cool. Flip Turn will be cool. Swampert's just cool - it might not stay OU but it'll likely have a solid consistent niche in the Defog-barren meta.

I've seen a lot of speculation about the best tera type for Serperior and I'm leaning more towards Tera Flying rather than Tera Fire/Fighting/etc. at the moment for offensive variants. SubSeed variants will be cool too (someone mentioned SubSeed variants earlier in the thread).

Could see this Pokemon becoming a bulky-offensive utility niche pick, but it all depends on any new movepool additions that it gets (along with how well it can use Tera), we just need to wait and see.

An offensively-inclined + bulky Fire/Dark-type in a metagame dominated by Ghosts? Sign me up - if they give Incineroar more options (although Incineroar already has great options available), it could very well have its best niche in OU ever.

I'm... moderately interested - Primarina has a lot going for it, but at the same time the only thing keeping me from just flat out going "eh,I want Milotic instead" is the dual Water/Fairy typing and possible new movepool additions.

 

[apoteosis]

Idk why you guys/gals think that will be broken or at the very least, good.

The most common set is LO SD/Protect/CC/Blitz, which is walled hard by dozo, pex, skeledirge, dnite, pult and moltres (not to mention some other rom there, you’ll need to arrange things.

Want to not die against hazards? Use boots, but you’ll lose power.

Want to kill dragons with Tera blast fairy? Drop protect and you’ll get outsped by Val and moth. Drop SD and you’ll have pathetic power. Drop CC and lose to the waters. Drop fire and dengo will come back to kill you.

 

[Martin]

This 'mon feels like a gimme for sun on paper but it does admittedly have much more competition now with Paradox Pokémon so idk whether Chlorophyll is distinct enough in practice. +2 is better than +1 tho if u go for a Spe 'mon as it lets you beat out certain +1 Spe targets, and not having to deliberately under-stat offences to get a speed boost is nice. Definitely not gonna be bad but it really comes down to whether the utility that makes it great is as necessary for sun as it was before. Being forced to go Timid to beat Quark-boosted Iron Valiant (which is guaranteed bc of sun) is pretty sucky though especially if it carries Psychic-type coverage or whatever.

I genuinely don't have enough context on this to say whether it's gonna be great, good, mediocre, or dogshit. People often point to NatDex when talking about this thing but I don't think it's that representative and so I'd prefer to avoid it, but even if I don't ignore it it's not even on the VR so it's like… I have no clue how much Shell Smash even matters without mega or Z moves or whatever to make up for its kinda crappy stats. Might be nice on HO or whatever to compress Spin utility with setup threat similar to Sand Rush Excadrill, and it does have the benefit of being good into Gholdengo thanks to Dark Pulse (assuming it didn't lose it), and it's not like it's competing with Cloyster in the whole "Shell Smash Spinner" role either as that thing lost Spin this gen.

This 'mon is not good. Gotta justify it over like every other defensive Grass-type. Synthesis not being quite as heavily gimped relative to other recovery options is nice but broadly speaking this 'mon is just kinda unfocussed as a defensive 'mon. Can't really see any particularly noteworthy niche. Please just use Tangrowth instead if that 'mon comes back, and if it doesn't I'd still say use any other defensive Grass-type.

Feels like Gyarados that trades off late-game snowballing/mid- and early-game defensive utility for mid-game Sheer Force breaking power. It's not bad but it's always been in kinda a weird spot where you have to justify a mid-game glass canon that requires setup. It also has one big disadvantage compared to Gyarados in that it is 1 stat point short of beating timid Dragapult at +1, which just kinda kills any idea that it's gonna be worth using over it or another more versatile DD user like Dragonite or whatever, and it can't really differentiate itself in the late-game either as Moxie is more valuable than Sheer Force once you're out of midgame and into endgame, and in the midgame when you are more focussed on wallbreaking rather than sweeping, you kinda have to ask yourself whether it's really preferable a slower nuke like Crawdaunt that is more likely to actually force its opponent into a trade-off decision defensively. Would be better if it had more of a Krookodile-y stat spread imo—78 Spe just isn't enough to compete when it is so similar+inferior to direct competition.

This mon will be eternally bad unless they seriously rework it. It's a moderately weak pure-Grass glass canon with whose movepool and abilities do nothing to help it remedy its biggest weaknesses.

Kinda on the fence about this 'mon. There is a very real chance that this thing is just broken with Tera/sun but if this thing is legal I see 'mons like Slowbro/Pex that match up well into it defensively being more common. If it's able to get to +2 Spe, it is a bit of a silver bullet versus a lot of offensive teams, which could make it a bit too overwhelming. It's one of those 'mons that is often really blatantly overpowered in BO-/HO-centric metas but debatably managable in more defensive metas, and given that this gen feels more offensively inclined I think there's a non-zero chance that it's just too much. Kinda has a Darkrai effect where it's like there are X, Y, and Z reasons you say it could maybe be managable on paper that really don't hold up when you turn your brain on and realise that it's really fast without needing to commit item slots while still hitting like a truck thanks to SD and high-BP STABs off of an (often-adamant) 120 base Atk.

This is the rework of Sceptile btw. Realistically this 'mon will be very good. Don't get fooled by the people who say it needs Tera Fire to function; lots of its strongest sets like Sub+Leech Seed or anything+Glare have not been entirely dependent on HP Fire to function in the past and Contrary Leaf Storm is seriously scary for both offensive and defensive teams to deal with if you let it get the ball rolling. It also just kinda fucks you if your team is heavily dependent on Sticky Web for its offence. All in all probably gonna be really solid. And it's not like you *can't* use Tera Fire to BTFO steels or whatever.

Not an outright bad 'mon in a vacuum, but it just doesn't really have anything going for it or any real reason to use it outside of lower tiers. A slow wallbreaker with solid-but-not-overwhelming mixed offences and a large HP/defence imbalance isn't exactly something that you ever massively want, and especially compared to Blaziken+Infernape who spec more into areas that let them make the most of their good mixed offences+typing or other slow Fighting-types that opt to spec into one offence and dump into bulk, it just makes very little sense to use Emboar.

Incineroar is probably gonna have some niche on specific builds bc of its typing + Intimidate + U-turn/Parting Shot + (possibly) Knock Off, but it is essentially just another slow HDB utility pivot, which are kinda a dime a dozen. Fire/Dark is situationally very nice though, and it's much more likely to be a usable tournament counterpick 'mon if it keeps Parting Shot.

This 'mon is good but ultimately it has the giant hurdle of justifying itself over Tapu Fini. More offensive leans like Sub+CM or Specs are probably gonna be usable but it's just in a really awkward spot because it can't necessarily make the most of its typing. And especially if Tapu Koko is popular, Fini's ability to overwrite Electric Terrain vs Paradox 'mons will be a really solid boon over Prim. Was fun back in DLC0/DLC1 of SS where it didn't have that competition and paired super well with stuff like Salazzle that could force non-PJab Pex into a precarious spot, but with Fini around to cover its defensive niches and the more broadly useful offensive attributes of other Water-type nukes, I don't see it having a huge degree of relevance.

 

[RS25802580]

Serperior will be very powerful mon. A potent set will be Tera Ground with Sub/Glare/Leaf Storm/Tera Blast.

Tera blast ground lets Serperior annihilate would-be checks in Heatran and Iron Moth. A +2 Tera Ground Blast OHKOs Gholdengo and Kingambit and 2HKOs AV Glowking. Glare cripples other switch-ins like Corviknight or Dragonite to make them easier to deal with for other teammates. I see Serperior potentially getting banned.

 

[YubelVT]

Serperior will be very powerful mon. A potent set will be Tera Ground with Sub/Glare/Leaf Storm/Tera Blast.

Tera blast ground lets Serperior annihilate would-be checks in Heatran and Iron Moth. A +2 Tera Ground Blast OHKOs Gholdengo and Kingambit and 2HKOs AV Glowking. Glare cripples other switch-ins like Corviknight or Dragonite to make them easier to deal with for other teammates. I see Serperior potentially getting banned.

Nah here's the thing, choosing tera ground leaves you weak to other serps, along with the multitude of good water types in the tier if you aren't using sub. It also assumes that the things you chose HP fire for in SM aren't returning, which I hope they do I need a fucking ferrothorn in my life. In addition, the serp set you're describing will almost certainly be used on teams that have other amazing tera users that are more likely to use tera first. Serp will be nowhere near banworthy in my opinion because, while strong, it suffers from problems similar to iron moth or volcarona where you have to choose your checks correctly and you lose to everything else. Volcarona was able to compensate by being strong right out the gate + having quiver dance

 

[MilkyWay]

Feels like Gyarados that trades off late-game snowballing/mid- and early-game defensive utility for mid-game Sheer Force breaking power. It's not bad but it's always been in kinda a weird spot where you have to justify a mid-game glass canon that requires setup. It also has one big disadvantage compared to Gyarados in that it is 1 stat point short of beating timid Dragapult at +1, which just kinda kills any idea that it's gonna be worth using over it or another more versatile DD user like Dragonite or whatever, and it can't really differentiate itself in the late-game either as Moxie is more valuable than Sheer Force once you're out of midgame and into endgame, and in the midgame when you are more focussed on wallbreaking rather than sweeping, you kinda have to ask yourself whether it's really preferable a slower nuke like Crawdaunt that is more likely to actually force its opponent into a trade-off decision defensively. Would be better if it had more of a Krookodile-y stat spread imo—78 Spe just isn't enough to compete when it is so similar+inferior to direct competition.

Missing out on Pult at +1 really sucks, but interestingly 78 speed is just fast enough to outspeed booster valiant with a double dance set (need jolly nature). Something like Waterfall/Crunch/Swords Dance/Agility could thus allow you to break fat teams mid game or clean offensive teams late game. Probably not too viable, but worthing trying at least. Here's the calcs on valiant (prolly better off running tera dark, but w/e):

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 208-246 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tera Water Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 278-328 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Prediction time woo ordered them from best to worst imo btw

- This is gonna follow the same path it did on gen 8 with people using some weird Life Orb set that kills itself in 2 turns and when those don't work out it's gonna get super hated on and drop. SD + Protect with balloon will be the best set but yall aint ready for this conversation yet.

Completely agree that LO Blaziken is not it. I remember experimenting with Protect + Leftovers in the past cuz I found most people dealt with Blaziken by letting it kill itself and leftovers > life orb solved that problem. It also allows you to essentially outspeed any non priority form of revenge killing, which is nice cuz Blaziken also resists the two most common forms of priority rn (sucker punch and grassy glide) .

 

[RS25802580]

Nah here's the thing, choosing tera ground leaves you weak to other serps, along with the multitude of good water types in the tier if you aren't using sub. It also assumes that the things you chose HP fire for in SM aren't returning, which I hope they do I need a fucking ferrothorn in my life. In addition, the serp set you're describing will almost certainly be used on teams that have other amazing tera users that are more likely to use tera first. Serp will be nowhere near banworthy in my opinion because, while strong, it suffers from problems similar to iron moth or volcarona where you have to choose your checks correctly and you lose to everything else. Volcarona was able to compensate by being strong right out the gate + having quiver dance

On the contrary (lol) I think tera ground will be much better than people are giving it credit for. OHKOing Heatran, Moth, and Gholdengo at +2 is huge. Tera Fire gets walled by the first two mons and Glowking. Ferrothorn is a valid concern but we don’t know if it’s coming back. As far as Water types go, none actually threaten Serp since it will run sub and they all get hit for neutral or super effective by Leaf Storm.

I also still believe Serp could very well be banworthy, but it’s hard to say for sure until we see what comes back in the DLC2 and whether or not it gets new moves. It’s rather different from Moth and Volc because it gets a perfectly accurate Glare to punish switch-ins and force progress even against its checks.

 

[Real Pikachu]

Nah here's the thing, choosing tera ground leaves you weak to other serps

+2 200 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 145-171 (47.5 - 56%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah bro real weak.

 

[Red violet blue]

On the contrary (lol) I think tera ground will be much better than people are giving it credit for. OHKOing Heatran, Moth, and Gholdengo at +2 is huge. Tera Fire gets walled by the first two mons and Glowking. Ferrothorn is a valid concern but we don’t know if it’s coming back. As far as Water types go, none actually threaten Serp since it will run sub and they all get hit for neutral or super effective by Leaf Storm.

I also still believe Serp could very well be banworthy, but it’s hard to say for sure until we see what comes back in the DLC2 and whether or not it gets new moves. It’s rather different from Moth and Volc because it gets a perfectly accurate Glare to punish switch-ins and force progress even against its checks.

There is a small problem.
Leaf storm: 8 PP
Corvilknight: Pressure
Skeledirge: Unaware
Clodsire: Unaware
Moltres: beats tera ground, pivots on tera fire
(Tera Dragon Dozo too but it needs to tera)
With Tera Ground, Corv will just force Serp to lose all PP.
(We could also run Pressure Zapdos but it's weird)

There is way too many grass resists in the game!
Serperior never knew any metagame with Ghold, Gambit, Dragapult, Corvilknight, Cinderace.

Ghold scarf can revenge kill and is immune to glare and seed.
Dragapult can revenge kill or para, even serperior sub set.
Cinderace can revenge kill.
Booster Moth too (and beat the tera fire set).
Valiant can revenge kill or encore serp on sub or glare (which is annoying except tera elec valiant).
Zapdos is way stronger than in gen 6 and 7.
Gambit can sucker punch, or tera flying.
Serp scarf wouldn't be good at all because of sucker punch, and all the grass resists.


In some match-ups, Serp wouldn't be a threatening sweeper at all, but could be useful with glare.
Serperior could be really annoying, but I don't except it to be broken at all.
Off course, I hope I am wrong, because I hate facing this mon (glare and subseed sets are really really annoying) so I'd enjoy its ban, but honestly I don't think it will happen. Perhaps the unpredictable tera can make it broken but I don't think so. It may force opponents to tera flying or dragon.
We'll see. Everything depends on the back moves and mons.

Also, weavile can switch in and make it lose 4 PP
(Or Serp tera fire and ko it with tera blast after one leaf storm lol)

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

was not broken in gen 8 because gen 8 IS STALL / FAT BALANCE META and I don't give a shit of the real explanation, you can also do what people do against iron valiant, and you know, HIT THE FUCKING THING, could be broken, but I think it's gonna be fine, at the start at least, I could be wrong

I also want to stop on this girl, and this is kind of a rant, In gen 8 I was wondering why nobody used Liquid Voice alongside Hyper Voice, the reason is because gen 8 ou is the worst meta of all time and will do everything so that you cannot have fun in this dog shit ass dumpster fire of a slugfest. So specs scald or cm scald was generally just better

Big Button Whackers: 'I am so glad that we are now playing a new metagame'

Same bunch in the metagame discussion thread of the new metagame: '********* GEN 8 OU' within 3 sentences of their post

People do know that 'out of sight, out of mind' is a real solution to things they dislike right

 

[RS25802580]

There is a small problem.
Leaf storm: 8 PP
Corvilknight: Pressure
Skeledirge: Unaware
Clodsire: Unaware
Moltres: beats tera ground, pivots on tera fire
(Tera Dragon Dozo too but it needs to tera)
With Tera Ground, Corv will just force Serp to lose all PP.
(We could also run Pressure Zapdos but it's weird)

There is way too many grass resists in the game!
Serperior never knew any metagame with Ghold, Gambit, Dragapult, Corvilknight, Cinderace.

Ghold scarf can revenge kill and is immune to glare and seed.
Dragapult can revenge kill or para, even serperior sub set.
Cinderace can revenge kill.
Booster Moth too (and beat the tera fire set).
Valiant can revenge kill or encore serp on sub or glare (which is annoying except tera elec valiant).
Zapdos is way stronger than in gen 6 and 7.
Gambit can sucker punch, or tera flying.
Serp scarf wouldn't be good at all because of sucker punch, and all the grass resists.


In some match-ups, Serp wouldn't be a threatening sweeper at all, but could be useful with glare.
Serperior could be really annoying, but I don't except it to be broken at all.
Off course, I hope I am wrong, because I hate facing this mon (glare and subseed sets are really really annoying) so I'd enjoy its ban, but honestly I don't think it will happen. Perhaps the unpredictable tera can make it broken but I don't think so. It may force opponents to tera flying or dragon.
We'll see. Everything depends on the back moves and mons.

Also, weavile can switch in and make it lose 4 PP
(Or Serp tera fire and ko it with tera blast after one leaf storm lol)

A mon can have multiple counters and still end up being broken. The vast majority of the checks listed above hate getting paralyzed. Access to Glare is what sets Serp apart. Getting to paralyze the opponent’s Corv or Moltres after setting up a substitute is a win for the Serp user.

I could make a list of checks for every Volcarona set too. It got banned because it was so matchup dependent that it was no longer healthy for the tier. Of course it’s far from a perfect comparison because Volc had QD and was far more immediately threatening. On the other hand, it didn’t have a progress forcing move as potent as Glare.

Again, I’m not saying that Serp will be broken, but that it might be. We’ll have to see it in action. Lists of checks and counters are all well and good but sometimes they don’t adequately translate to the effectiveness of a mon in actual gameplay, particularly if it can use progress forcing moves at minimal opportunity cost.

 

[1LDK]

If you don't like it, don't play it

I do agree, and I do avoid the meta like plague, but both Smogon Tours AND Smogon Masters use the format, so I have to play gen 8 even tho I don't like it, and at least there's gen 7, 6 and 9. Still, I will admit that I got out of hand with tier bashing

There is a small problem.
Leaf storm: 8 PP
Corvilknight: Pressure
Skeledirge: Unaware
Clodsire: Unaware
Moltres: beats tera ground, pivots on tera fire
(Tera Dragon Dozo too but it needs to tera)
With Tera Ground, Corv will just force Serp to lose all PP.
(We could also run Pressure Zapdos but it's weird)

There is way too many grass resists in the game!
Serperior never knew any metagame with Ghold, Gambit, Dragapult, Corvilknight, Cinderace.

Ghold scarf can revenge kill and is immune to glare and seed.
Dragapult can revenge kill or para, even serperior sub set.
Cinderace can revenge kill.
Booster Moth too (and beat the tera fire set).
Valiant can revenge kill or encore serp on sub or glare (which is annoying except tera elec valiant).
Zapdos is way stronger than in gen 6 and 7.
Gambit can sucker punch, or tera flying.
Serp scarf wouldn't be good at all because of sucker punch, and all the grass resists.

Corv is ass and can be easily pressured, not to mention it gets annoyed by para
The rest of the defensive options you mentioned are fair, but they do dislike getting their boots knocked off (from this list, only zapdos and moltres can punish back the knock off) and remember that serp is both a cleaner and a utility mon, so you can pair it with a real wallbreaker with knock off and pivoters like glowking, which is not hard to do
You forgot Blissey which is weird considering she completely walls him forever, but to be fair she also dislikes getting boots knocked off
Clefable (the key knock off absorber alongside corv) implies she is using magic guard, and she does get 2HKO by leaf storm, while unaware variants get 3hko, but they are now susceptible to hazards, but I will admit that clef IS hard to take down

from the offensive mons you mentioned, every one of them gets outsped by scarf
ghold, ace and pult gets 2hko from +2 leaf storm
moth does check tera fire and can tera grass from tera ground, but you can pair him with Dnite or the aforementioned glowking, not to mention heatran who also deals with your defensive options + moth without tera ground tera blast, but if that's the case then he no longer checks serp

Valiant DOES outspeed but 252 SpA Tera Fairy Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 204-242 (70.1 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, so you need to AT least sack something for chip

Zapdos is a good counter, ill give you that one
And Gambit is gambit

You use sub seed as a support mon to troll all kinds of mons, and scarf to clean up, and supporting serperior is not hard to do since he already brings stuff to the table

 

[Wolf-X]

There is 0 chance Blaziken or Serperior become broken. Although both really benefit from Rimbombee webs.

Blaziken best set might be:
Tera Dark adamant
Flare Blitz, CC, Tera Blast/¿Knock off?, SD
It still is quite manageable thanks to priority and lacking some speed but its something.
Item no clue, Expert belt? Lefties?
Viable but nothing crazy
Serperior 100% needs to be either Tera Fire/Fighting/¿Water? To avoid getting walled by steels, OR Sub leech glare sets that will be annoying but manageable.
Similar viability as blaziken but even more Tera reliant.
Venusaur = sun, if sun good venu good.
Ferraligatr some niche but likely UU
Primarina might have some niche if Fini isnt added. Still UU
Swampert low flip turn and maybe spikes? Some viability in there, still not great. UU

Most others will be irrelevant or niche in OU

Special mention to Meganium for been so trash

 

[Red violet blue]

A mon can have multiple counters and still end up being broken. The vast majority of the checks listed above hate getting paralyzed. Access to Glare is what sets Serp apart. Getting to paralyze the opponent’s Corv or Moltres after setting up a substitute is a win for the Serp user.

I could make a list of checks for every Volcarona set too. It got banned because it was so matchup dependent that it was no longer healthy for the tier. Of course it’s far from a perfect comparison because Volc had QD and was far more immediately threatening. On the other hand, it didn’t have a progress forcing move as potent as Glare.

Again, I’m not saying that Serp will be broken, but that it might be. We’ll have to see it in action. Lists of checks and counters are all well and good but sometimes they don’t adequately translate to the effectiveness of a mon in actual gameplay, particularly if it can use progress forcing moves at minimal opportunity cost.

Yeah, I admit it could be too good at making progress, especially if it still learns knock off, which would be good in a boots meta.
Also, idk if it will have defog.
Clearly, like I said, I hate facing this mon because of para and subseed, and with offensive or defensive tera it could be overwhelming.
It depends on the dlc 2 other stuff.

I do agree, and I do avoid the meta like plague, but both Smogon Tours AND Smogon Masters use the format, so I have to play gen 8 even tho I don't like it, and at least there's gen 7, 6 and 9. Still, I will admit that I got out of hand with tier bashing



Corv is ass and can be easily pressured, not to mention it gets annoyed by para
The rest of the defensive options you mentioned are fair, but they do dislike getting their boots knocked off (from this list, only zapdos and moltres can punish back the knock off) and remember that serp is both a cleaner and a utility mon, so you can pair it with a real wallbreaker with knock off and pivoters like glowking, which is not hard to do
You forgot Blissey which is weird considering she completely walls him forever, but to be fair she also dislikes getting boots knocked off
Clefable (the key knock off absorber alongside corv) implies she is using magic guard, and she does get 2HKO by leaf storm, while unaware variants get 3hko, but they are now susceptible to hazards, but I will admit that clef IS hard to take down

from the offensive mons you mentioned, every one of them gets outsped by scarf
ghold, ace and pult gets 2hko from +2 leaf storm
moth does check tera fire and can tera grass from tera ground, but you can pair him with Dnite or the aforementioned glowking, not to mention heatran who also deals with your defensive options + moth without tera ground tera blast, but if that's the case then he no longer checks serp

Valiant DOES outspeed but 252 SpA Tera Fairy Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 204-242 (70.1 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, so you need to AT least sack something for chip

Zapdos is a good counter, ill give you that one
And Gambit is gambit

You use sub seed as a support mon to troll all kinds of mons, and scarf to clean up, and supporting serperior is not hard to do since he already brings stuff to the table

I was thinking about specs valiant, but I admit it's not used that much.
About Blissey, it's a very specific mon, and idk the calcs of +4 leaf storm but blissey can PP stall anyway. If we're forced to play this mon to beat something, so this "something" is broken, Blissey just beats most of special attackers.
Also, I admit that almost all these mons are weak to para, so serperior could become way too strong by spreading para everywhere with glare, and it will maybe be able to destroy everything with luck and tera. Its teammates may also help with screens/hasards/knock off support.

If it's the case, I will very quickly say that it should be banned.

Anyway, we'll see, it can become broken but it still depends on the moves it learns and the returning mons.

 

[Schpoonman]

Mostly excited for Feraligatr to return because it means I get its kit for OMs.

It's a little slow and weak to make use of Dragon Dance in OU, and I'd need to see benchmarks for the Agility set, but I can see SD being a niche if threatening breaker. Hard to justify over the advantages other breakers bring.

 

[arnimacarni]

Mostly excited for Feraligatr to return because it means I get its kit for OMs.

It's a little slow and weak to make use of Dragon Dance in OU, and I'd need to see benchmarks for the Agility set, but I can see SD being a niche if threatening breaker. Hard to justify over the advantages other breakers bring.

Webs support for SD? I just hate that starters are so average in comparison to the many minmaxed mons we have in general, SD misses speed, Agility missed on power and DD is just not good enough in either.

Also guys, new trailer dropping in 40mins! Let's goooo

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

I do agree, and I do avoid the meta like plague, but both Smogon Tours AND Smogon Masters use the format, so I have to play gen 8 even tho I don't like it, and at least there's gen 7, 6 and 9. Still, I will admit that I got out of hand with tier bashing

You can still make a choice if you truly despise the metagame (personally think that you should give it a fair shake and get into the community - resources in the tier are extremely outdated and you probably need to put in a bit more effort than asking for a tutor as crazy as that sounds): you can opt to not participate in any of the gen 8 weeks in the Smogon Tour and forfeit the gen 8 match in Smogon Masters every round.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

You can still make a choice if you truly despise the metagame (personally think that you should give it a fair shake and get into the community - resources in the tier are extremely outdated and you probably need to put in a bit more effort than asking for a tutor as crazy as that sounds): you can opt to not participate in any of the gen 8 weeks in the Smogon Tour and forfeit the gen 8 match in Smogon Masters every round.

Doing that puts you at an extreme disadvantage though, which is the problem. You are essentially forced to win both SM and ORAS/SV (Depending on if we talking Masters or STour) every time if you forfiet SS. I'm not bashing SS OU to be clear (I'm actually pretty fine with how it is in its current state), I just wanted to bring up that it's really not that simple.

 

[RaikouLover]

Venusaur is a bulkier, albeit slower and weaker Lilligant. Will be a good mon but this does not suddenly elevate sun beyond what it already is.

Blaziken and Serp will be busted af though bruh. Y’all trippin. I can’t wait to try Blaziken on Sun and click buttons.

 

[Lethargic]

You can still make a choice if you truly despise the metagame (personally think that you should give it a fair shake and get into the community - resources in the tier are extremely outdated and you probably need to put in a bit more effort than asking for a tutor as crazy as that sounds): you can opt to not participate in any of the gen 8 weeks in the Smogon Tour and forfeit the gen 8 match in Smogon Masters every round.

Bro you’re telling him to “put in a bit more effort” and “get into the community”? He’s the one playing in tours, I’m sorry are you McMeghan on an alt or something what’s your claim to fame?