Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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So how are we thinking the loyal 3 are?

Munki and Dogi look and feel solid and nice fits for the OU meta. (Looking forward to see Dogi optimized in some weird ways, mon slots perfectly into bulky offense and balance teams and can differentiate itself from sneasler being able to utilize its defensive traits pretty well unlike sneasler and slot onto those types of teams as a fat breaker.)

Feazan looks super niche and not very good like we all know. Probably headed for RU realistically
 
Maybe a bit ot but anyone have any set idea for Sinestcha?

I have the idea of

Sinestcha
Modest/Life Orb/Heat Proof
Nasty Plot/Calm Mind
Matcha Gatcha
Shadow Ball/Hex
Scald

But not sure where to put EV's maybe 252 into SpA but the rest not fully sure
 
SaphireStorm said:
While it is possible for it to stay, I feel like once people realise how easily Munkidori can sweep many common mons it'll become a staple, and Munkidori as a staple makes Okidogi quite unsafe due to it's 4x weakness to psychic and it's special defense of 86 leaving it only able to tank special hits from non-super-effective moves and moves from special attackers who don't have high special attack (which is the minority of special attackers)
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Point being it can set up on a lot of physical mons and punish mons that switch around it through knock, you obviously aren't switching it into glowking or munki ever, it can set up on or punish other very relevant mons and revenge kill them pretty easily. I got reverse swept by it today due to the fact that switching around it is kinda rough even if its only base 80 speed, as it does hit decently hard.
 
I think what makes Ogerpon weird is that with 4 variation, it can be difficult to get a good read on her. I think it's obviously one Ogrepon's is prolly better than another Ogerpon and I feel like it's gonna be interesting to see which mask lands where. I think I can see the likes of Hearthflame being a solid, not OP OU mon. Teal also being up there as well due to the benefit of an item. But time will tell as there are, once again 4 Ogerpon to test and use and will prolly get different types. Ogrepon is prolly one of the more interesting mons we have here, especially Gen 9 legends as it has different forms while also not be so unbearably absurd by made with some sense of balance lol

Anyway, what are the thoughts around Ogerpon, the Loyal Three and my GOAT Kommo-o?

EDIT: I will say that Fezandipiti feels more like he was made to be a doubles support mon instead of a singles mon like the other two. His stats scream "support" to me. Could be wrong though.
 
Crimson Chris said:
I think what makes Ogerpon weird is that with 4 variation, it can be difficult to get a good read on her. I think it's obviously one Ogrepon's is prolly better than another Ogerpon and I feel like it's gonna be interesting to see which mask lands where. I think I can see the likes of Hearthflame being a solid, not OP OU mon. Teal also being up there as well due to the benefit of an item. But time will tell as there are, once again 4 Ogerpon to test and use and will prolly get different types. Ogrepon is prolly one of the more interesting mons we have here, especially Gen 9 legends as it has different forms while also not be so unbearably absurd by made with some sense of balance lol

Anyway, what are the thoughts around Ogerpon, the Loyal Three and my GOAT Kommo-o?

EDIT: I will say that Fezandipiti feels more like he was made to be a doubles support mon instead of a singles mon like the other two. His stats scream "support" to me. Could be wrong though.
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Munki we all know was gonna be good, will probably be a staple.

Okidogi is the one i'm most interested in as it could be quite good once the meta calms and the brokens are gone. People are saying this thing is worse sneasler, but its role is different, being a bulky wallbreaker rather than a sweeper that can make use of its defensive traits with bulk up, allowing it to fit into the balance and bulky offense structures more naturally than sneasler ever could dream of. It also has two good abilities (Albeit guard dog is situational.), but I really wanna see how this mon gets optimized. Air balloon sets could be good if ting lu and landorus-t rise in usage as neither of them wanna deal with an air balloon okidogi, AV could be alright on it sometimes, banded i've heard is kinda okay. Cannot wait to see what becomes of Dogi in the future.

Feazan is kinda bad, probably headed for RU realistically

Kommo-o looks pretty cool, have yet to try it but tera seems wild on it.

Ogrepon is really good, have been loving them, especially fire mask
 
If fezandpiti could do something besides roost off damage and toxic u-turns it would have some real value. Due to its staying power and role more as a pivot it has way more opportunities to spread toxic. it just doesn’t do anything like you’d think the toxic chance and it’s low attacking stats anyway you’d just use moves with already good support/momentum effects and use that and toxic chain to gain progress but you can’t even consistently do that
 
The more I think about it, the more I think Snow actually just broke Alolan Ninetales. If you see it on team preview, you basically have to have something that can stop it from setting up t1 Veil.

Baxcalibur is the obvious companion at the moment, but if bax is banned, I'm certain there are other ice types that work just fine with x3 / x2 defenses.

I think you can actively disrupt ninetales in a couple of key ways (weather, prio, screens removal, legendary dog), but the pool of mons that outspeed and kill it without slotting in a bad move really isn't very large.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
So how are we thinking the loyal 3 are?

Munki and Dogi look and feel solid and nice fits for the OU meta. (Looking forward to see Dogi optimized in some weird ways, mon slots perfectly into bulky offense and balance teams and can differentiate itself from sneasler being able to utilize its defensive traits pretty well unlike sneasler and slot onto those types of teams as a fat breaker.)

Feazan looks super niche and not very good like we all know. Probably headed for RU realistically
Click to expand...

I feel like the toxic trio will struggle in OU so long as Weezing-G, Slowking-G and Gholdengo are around tbh. And Poison Ting-Lu also doesn't help. They aren't all checked by the same mons, but imo each of them is hard stopped by at least 1 good mon, if not more.

Edit: Oh yeah, and Gliscord ofcourse

Speaking of poison types, I've been having a lot of succes with Sub 3A Moth. Not entirely sure why, but a lot of teams rn are just blown open by it. Could just be due to being so low on the ladder but this lil guy feels really nice to use
:sv/iron-moth:
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 124 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
 
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Turtleye_ said:
I feel like the toxic trio will struggle in OU so long as Weezing-G, Slowking-G and Gholdengo are around tbh. And Poison Ting-Lu also doesn't help. They aren't all checked by the same mons, but imo each of them is hard stopped by at least 1 good mon, if not more

Speaking of poison types, I've been having a lot of succes with Sub 3A Moth. Not entirely sure why, but a lot of teams rn are just blown open by it. Could just be due to being so low on the ladder but this lil guy feels really nice to use
:sv/iron-moth:
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 124 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
Click to expand...
Weezing-G is something I doubt will stick around long term, so Okidogi won't have to worry about that.
 
Turtleye_ said:
I feel like the toxic trio will struggle in OU so long as Weezing-G, Slowking-G and Gholdengo are around tbh. And Poison Ting-Lu also doesn't help. They aren't all checked by the same mons, but imo each of them is hard stopped by at least 1 good mon, if not more

Speaking of poison types, I've been having a lot of succes with Sub 3A Moth. Not entirely sure why, but a lot of teams rn are just blown open by it. Could just be due to being so low on the ladder but this lil guy feels really nice to use
:sv/iron-moth:
Iron Moth @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 124 Def / 132 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
Click to expand...
Munkidori has Shadow Ball and Okidogi has High Horsepower/Knock Off for Gholdengo at least.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
So how are we thinking the loyal 3 are?

Munki and Dogi look and feel solid and nice fits for the OU meta. (Looking forward to see Dogi optimized in some weird ways, mon slots perfectly into bulky offense and balance teams and can differentiate itself from sneasler being able to utilize its defensive traits pretty well unlike sneasler and slot onto those types of teams as a fat breaker.)

Feazan looks super niche and not very good like we all know. Probably headed for RU realistically
Click to expand...
Was running this on monke with the usual Veil screens just to mess around, then I switched to using it on Webs. You need two NP to break Gholdengo unfortunately and if you run Shadow Ball to cover Ghold chances are you're walled by something else. Think when the meta slows down a bit this mon will be a bit better and stay OU.

Munkidori @ Life Orb
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Flying (This can be whatever)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot

I got boned by a Tera Dark Bulk Up Dogi when I clicked Psyshock on Monke so that probably will be the wave with it once again when meta slows down. The bird thing I don't think won't be good at all. It has an okay movepool but crap offenses for the tier's level.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
i prefer neutralizing gas on it because it lets you defog right in gholdengo's sparkly expensive face, which is extremely valuable in a meta that somehow has less hazard removal than it actually has
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How well does Geezing matchup with the different Gholdengo sets? Does it have what it takes to counter, or does Make It Rain just delete it?
 
BolTingBlazie said:
So how are we thinking the loyal 3 are?

Munki and Dogi look and feel solid and nice fits for the OU meta. (Looking forward to see Dogi optimized in some weird ways, mon slots perfectly into bulky offense and balance teams and can differentiate itself from sneasler being able to utilize its defensive traits pretty well unlike sneasler and slot onto those types of teams as a fat breaker.)

Feazan looks super niche and not very good like we all know. Probably headed for RU realistically
Click to expand...
I've used specs Monkidori and it's pretty solid, it will probably be better once the meta settles a bit. Okidogi seems too slow, and fezandipiti has some good moves but is held back by a pretty awful stat spread.
 
I think this is the Kommo-O set to beat:

Kommo-o @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Boomburst
- Focus Blast
- Flamethrower

Reaaaaaaally easy to set up from behind Ninetales’ screens and with a synergistic typing.

Special sweeper that Blissey fears bc STAB Focus Miss, Boomburst goes oooof, Tera Fire for STAB FT, which also lets it tank Fairy and Ice moves, as well as letting it set up on Ghondego by virtue of being immune to Shadow Ball and resisting Make it Rain. Good stuff.

Just get Dragapult out of the way first, as you should be doing anyway if you’re running a HO Screens team (run Kingsgambit).

————-

Side note: it’s such a good moral victory for Empoleon to finally get Competitive over Defiant. It suits its high sp attack much better. Great ability for both singles and doubles. :)
 
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Cuddly said:
btw there is no thread for Okigodi, Munkidori, and Ogerpon in the New & Returning Pokemon Discussion section if someone wants to make those threads if they're qualified.
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All of Ogerpon's forms are already covered, and Okidogi and Munkidori are already reserved
 
Jhang said:
How well does Geezing matchup with the different Gholdengo sets? Does it have what it takes to counter, or does Make It Rain just delete it?
Click to expand...
it doesn't have the best actual matchup because make it rain does delete it, but it means that gholdengo can't switch into your defog to block it, which is how gholdengo usually blocks defogs (since no one clicks it while gholdengo is actually on the field)
 
Direwolf12 said:
Maybe a bit ot but anyone have any set idea for Sinestcha?

I have the idea of

Sinestcha
Modest/Life Orb/Heat Proof
Nasty Plot/Calm Mind
Matcha Gatcha
Shadow Ball/Hex
Scald

But not sure where to put EV's maybe 252 into SpA but the rest not fully sure
Click to expand...
I’m making an rmt soon, but just a little spoiler. The sinestcha set I’m using is a bulky 252hp with a little def and mostly spdef investment. It has id, cm, shadow ball, and matcha gotcha.
 
hey, so i just noticed that dipplin has access to dragon tail. considering that with eviolite it has massive physical bulk and good special bulk (equivalent of 80/190/129 if you give it full def investment), is it possible that it could work as a phazer in a similar vein to (but of course less useful than) giratina-a? it's only got 5 less spa too…
 
Preliminary testing from the Battle Mechanics research thread shows that Ogerpon's masks have the same effect as items such as Griseous Core and Soul Dew, giving Ogerpon a 1.2x boost to its STAB attacks. When this gets implemented on Pokemon Showdown, Ogerpon will get quite a bit better.
 
Avira said:
Preliminary testing from the Battle Mechanics research thread shows that Ogerpon's masks have the same effect as items such as Griseous Core and Soul Dew, giving Ogerpon a 1.2x boost to its STAB attacks. When this gets implemented on Pokemon Showdown, Ogerpon will get quite a bit better.
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along with the tera boost, that makes tera'd hearthflame very scary indeed, especially under sun:

+1 252 Atk Charcoal Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu in Sun: 458-540 (89.1 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Charcoal Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 155-183 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Charcoal Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta in Sun: 306-360 (78.8 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Charcoal Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl in Sun: 221-261 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

it isn't quite chi-yu or dracovish level, but it's definitely in the same realm of "lmao what even is a resist", which seems like it'll be especially problematic paired with walking wake and hazard stack
 
RE: Volcarona,

After the last tiering survey, Volcarona had enough support to get voted on to drop down, but nothing else came particularly close. Once everything was released on PS and we gained the information necessary about the DLC to proceed, the SV OU tiering council voted on Volcarona. In order for something to drop down from Ubers, it would need 2/3 or higher support to drop down from Ubers per this recent ruling.

Here is the result on Volcarona:
FinchinatorRuftausmaimaLilymind gamingNJNPStarTPPxavgb
UnbanUnbanUnbanDo not unbanUnbanDo not unbanDo not unbanUnbanDo no unbanDo not unban

With only 5 of 10 votes favoring an unban, Volcarona will remain Ubers for the time. This does not exclude it from discussions of a formal retest and it is very much on the table for starting OU after DLC2, but it lacks sufficient support to start OU with the release of DLC1.
 
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