on offense, get going with your mon before it gets going. on balance, uh… good luck.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Specially defensive Garg can force Manaphy to Tera with Salt Cure or punish it if the opponent already blew their Tera. Knocking off its Leftovers hurts its survivability a lot. Red Card is a little niche but can get rid of all its boosts and let you deal with it later. The real answer, though, is to take Manaphy out before it can set up too much. Once it's got +2 in both defenses you really just have to crit fish with Ogerpon. I don't think Manaphy is that hard to stop from snowballing, but once it does, you're kinda screwed.
Tera Dragon actually isn't (at least, not on stall, which is what I've been playing recently) the preferred tera for mons looking to deal with Waterpon. Tera Grass is more common since it makes you not weak to Play Rough. Tera Dragon might be preferred for dealing with other mons better/on other team styles, but at least on Stall (and usually with Dozo) you're looking at Tera Grass.
The sus mushroom is probably it's hardest counter, but is not very good currently.
Despite what someone said like two seconds ago, I've been having a good time using a gimmicky amoongus set. It's completely normal except you have worry seed for the sole purpose of trolling gliscor. Speaking of which, I threw ice fang on gliscor and have had a decent amount of success with it. A damn shame it dropped from UU to make room for fraud ass pokemon like rillaboom (still a hater, I don't buy that this thing is super good) and blissey.
Another pokemon I feel like has gone a bit under the radar is greninja. I think I made a post about mixed gren earlier, but battle bond feels just as strong as ever. I've definitely had a few games where I was a bit behind but then greninja just kinda 6-0d the entire team. Having to pick between ice beam and grass knot kinda sucks (not dropping water shuriken, I lean towards ice beam).
Finally, I've been messing around with Galarian-Moltres and he's actually life ruining if you can get him in on the right targets.
Guts (Moltres-Galar) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Berserk
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Agility
- Fiery Wrath
- Tera Blast (ig hurricane if you want but you'll find me dead and buried before I use that shit. Maybe heat on a rain team or smthn idk)
A very normal Goatres but I put more into bulk than speed. At +2 you're at 452 speed which is good enough to outspeed pretty much every relevant scarfer. The only thing you don't outspeed is booster speed valiant and booster speed RM (which I don't see much, most people seem to favor attack). The extra bulk helps it find more switches and set up a bit more comfortably. It's not an easy pokemon to slot into a team but I recommend people give it a whirl, it's a fun pokemon.
I agree that Heavy-Duty Boots is the best item, it's the item I always run. Being able to ignore hazards makes it both harder to take down and better at dealing with enemy webs and with retreating.
Quaquaval definitely doesn't do too well against Glimmora if it's a set-up variant, but four attacks anti-hazard tends to be good into it since it forces a switch out into a Gholdengo or Dragapult to stop the spin, if the Glimmora even knows you have Rapid Spin.
I agree, solid B-Tier that has its place in the tier. I feel it really shines when webs are being thrown everywhere.
What's the average ELO here? 1500?
I bring it down to 1300 single handedly I'm real bad
The best answer I've used for Manaphy is no cap, Cryogonal, as it can Haze away all of Manaphy's boost before it can do anything and Manaphy hits like a wet noodle against it. That being said this isn't the type of Pokemon you can just slap onto a team.
Best general answer is definitely Encore Ogerpon as it can easily put Manaphy in a checkmate position and setup to +6 and probably reverse sweep.
Is there a specific reason to run sitrus berry over heavy-duty boots? While the meta is more centred around spikes than rocks, I feel like having boots on flying types is still the best choice if you don't need other items, especially since you don't have roost.
i love writing long posts
Gliscor. Just Gliscor for the 'too much for the metagame' part. Gliscor does a lot of things and it does most of them better than the rest of its competition, like sustain, ease of hazard setting, and luring with SD+Facade sets. It's warping the meta in the list of common Ground types being eaten away in favor of Spikescor, and the fact that strong mons are having to slot in otherwise incredibly middling options like forcing offensive spreads + Ice Spinner on Tusk just to stop it from setting up that much. It's the only thing I want to get suspected right now, as much as I'm sure most people on this thread don't want more suspects. I miss pre-DLC, man...
Iron Valiant is probably my single most hated mon in the format outside of Gliscor, I just absolutely despise how wide its set variety is. Every time I think it's CM it's actually Swords Dance, when I think it' a physical set it pulls out Tbolt, and it just beats out in raw speed almost everything. I despise it so much. It's like guessing if Gen 3 Salamence is DD, CB, Wish, or Mixed, except now the mon is one of the fastest if not the second fastest mon in the format and has one of the most powerful set of STAB options plus Terastalization. Which sucks, as the resident Gardevoir and Gallade enthusiast, that I hate it so much.
...actually, it's like Toxapex for me. Banger design, arguably top 5 for their generation, but both are so incredibly insufferable that it takes the fun out of the game. Except Toxapex at least lost to tapu koko and megamaw
Iron Moth has won so many games I spectate and have played in it's honestly insane, I think I've not seen a more consistent mon outside of the broken mons like Firepon, Baxc, Flutter or Palafin when aiming just to get a 1 for 1 trade. Moth is nowhere near that power level, but it's just so consistent!
Holy shit Roaring Moon. Hohohohohoholy shit. This thing is POPPING OFF. Booster Energy with a bit lower atk investment and Jolly for a +1 speed outruns the best scarfers AND Moth AND Valiant. I was excited for Roaring Moon at generation start, and the fact that it has the free-est Knock Off in the game is so banger. I've been sticking to DD+Booster Energy+Acro sets and it consistently gets progress done thanks to Knock Off crippling anything that would want to stay in. This is not a 'ban this' or 'suspect this,' but I think Roaring is one of the biggest glow ups yet.
Most of which is watching the forums express their 'flavorful' opinions on game balance., and it's been moderately entertaining. I also play OU from time to time and rarely show up in the OU room, although I definitely prefer playing Gen 6 or 7.
Gliscor. Just Gliscor for the 'too much for the metagame' part. Gliscor does a lot of things and it does most of them better than the rest of its competition, like sustain, ease of hazard setting, and luring with SD+Facade sets. It's warping the meta in the list of common Ground types being eaten away in favor of Spikescor, and the fact that strong mons are having to slot in otherwise incredibly middling options like forcing offensive spreads + Ice Spinner on Tusk just to stop it from setting up that much. It's the only thing I want to get suspected right now, as much as I'm sure most people on this thread don't want more suspects. I miss pre-DLC, man...
Iron Valiant is probably my single most hated mon in the format outside of Gliscor, I just absolutely despise how wide its set variety is. Every time I think it's CM it's actually Swords Dance, when I think it' a physical set it pulls out Tbolt, and it just beats out in raw speed almost everything. I despise it so much. It's like guessing if Gen 3 Salamence is DD, CB, Wish, or Mixed, except now the mon is one of the fastest if not the second fastest mon in the format and has one of the most powerful set of STAB options plus Terastalization. Which sucks, as the resident Gardevoir and Gallade enthusiast, that I hate it so much.
...actually, it's like Toxapex for me. Banger design, arguably top 5 for their generation, but both are so incredibly insufferable that it takes the fun out of the game. Except Toxapex at least lost to tapu koko and megamaw
Iron Moth has won so many games I spectate and have played in it's honestly insane, I think I've not seen a more consistent mon outside of the broken mons like Firepon, Baxc, Flutter or Palafin when aiming just to get a 1 for 1 trade. Moth is nowhere near that power level, but it's just so consistent!
Holy shit Roaring Moon. Hohohohohoholy shit. This thing is POPPING OFF. Booster Energy with a bit lower atk investment and Jolly for a +1 speed outruns the best scarfers AND Moth AND Valiant. I was excited for Roaring Moon at generation start, and the fact that it has the free-est Knock Off in the game is so banger. I've been sticking to DD+Booster Energy+Acro sets and it consistently gets progress done thanks to Knock Off crippling anything that would want to stay in. This is not a 'ban this' or 'suspect this,' but I think Roaring is one of the biggest glow ups yet.
Most of which is watching the forums express their 'flavorful' opinions on game balance., and it's been moderately entertaining. I also play OU from time to time and rarely show up in the OU room, although I definitely prefer playing Gen 6 or 7.
The best way to deal with it is probably to run encore on something faster than it. Lately a lot of setup sweepers have been running encore on their sets because of how devastating setup sweepers are, which then lets them set up on the opposing encore-d setup sweeper and put them in a position to sweep the game. It also helps pressure protect gliscor
Encore alongside CM would help clef check Pokémon like manaphy more consistently as it can immediately stop the setup instead of getting in a war which it might lose due to lack of recovery and stored power.
If you heal past 50% you can proc berserk twice which is kinda funny. Aside from that I run a bunch of anti hazard options (mainly hat and glimmora)
I am developing new tech, new team with Ribombee and Cinderace to give Sticky Web TO ME?! and then Empoleon would come and get a free +2 SpA on switch-in, and then I had Gravity Lando + Contrary Enam to get +1 Spe on the switch, rounded it out with Corv
BUT IT DOESNT F**KING WORK
I mean I guess Enam would work I didn't try it but the thing is that Emp doesn't get the boost and I feel so cheated on for it I HAD TO RUN FKIN RIBOMBEE FOR THIS
BUT IT DOESNT F**KING WORK
I mean I guess Enam would work I didn't try it but the thing is that Emp doesn't get the boost and I feel so cheated on for it I HAD TO RUN FKIN RIBOMBEE FOR THIS
What four years without my boy Serperior does to a man
that feels like a bug. I know self inflicted stat drops usually dont activate competitive but what would happen if you court changed an opponents sticky web? or they court changed yours? You should ask someone to do an in game test to confirm its working correctly.
The obvious alternative would be Skill Swap - Magic Bounce for maximum practicality
I just forfeit. It is a cheap stupid busted set.
I find Zama to be completely busted. It is too fast and bulky. If you have no faster special sweepers you lose. Maybe it was kept because it has issues with hyper fat builds.
Kinda hate that the answers you got to this were just "tera". You shouldn't really have to use tera to counter a pokemon that doesn't also need to tera.
Aside from that, I've found Rillaboom to be pretty nice against it. I'm sure other grasses are also great at dealing with it but we'd also need to find another good grass in OU that isn't amoongus (weak to zen headbutt), meowscarada (weak to play rough), or breloom (weak to zen headbutt and play rough). Until then rillaboom seems to be the only decent answer I've found.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera: 316-372 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Drops to PU with Dragapult and Ting-Lu
What set even is this? Tail Glow+Acid Armor?
Given how ultraoffensive the current meta is, I'd like to rescue certain set from gen 7
Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Spikes/U-turn
At the expense of getting walled by Gholdengo and G-King, physical Gren gets great coverage to hit a good chunk of the new meta, such as A-Ninetales, non-rock Ogerpon, and the resurrected Roaring Moon, which you outspeed at +1, while still hitting Gliscor and Lando with Ice Beam. Uninvested Grass Knot can also be used to hit Dondozo and OHKO Max HP Great Tusk if needed. Tera Poison allows to resist Ursaluna's Vacuum Wave and absorb T-spikes while boosting Gunk Shot (I believe I forgor how Tera+Protean interact). Tera Fighting can also be used to keep resisting Sucker Punch. and boost Low Kick. Life Orb is also really good and it turns many of these 2HKO into OHKOs, but speed control is too important and Protean nerf means you can scout him out and switch around while getting hit by LO recoil.
EDIT: Tuns out Tera+Protean =\= Adaptability. I guess you'd run Tera Ghost here to avoid E.Speed+Vacuum Wave on a pinch.
Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Low Kick
- Gunk Shot
- Spikes/U-turn
At the expense of getting walled by Gholdengo and G-King, physical Gren gets great coverage to hit a good chunk of the new meta, such as A-Ninetales, non-rock Ogerpon, and the resurrected Roaring Moon, which you outspeed at +1, while still hitting Gliscor and Lando with Ice Beam. Uninvested Grass Knot can also be used to hit Dondozo and OHKO Max HP Great Tusk if needed. Tera Poison allows to resist Ursaluna's Vacuum Wave and absorb T-spikes while boosting Gunk Shot (I believe I forgor how Tera+Protean interact). Tera Fighting can also be used to keep resisting Sucker Punch. and boost Low Kick. Life Orb is also really good and it turns many of these 2HKO into OHKOs, but speed control is too important and Protean nerf means you can scout him out and switch around while getting hit by LO recoil.
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 348-412 (98.8 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 366-432 (121.5 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 270-320 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 378-446 (91.3 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (lel)
252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 420-494 (119.6 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Hatterene: 270-318 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 330-390 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 440-522 (101.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 236-278 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 313-369 (48 - 56.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 366-432 (121.5 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 270-320 (65.2 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 378-446 (91.3 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (lel)
252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 420-494 (119.6 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 116+ Def Hatterene: 270-318 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 330-390 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 440-522 (101.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 236-278 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 313-369 (48 - 56.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO
EDIT: Tuns out Tera+Protean =\= Adaptability. I guess you'd run Tera Ghost here to avoid E.Speed+Vacuum Wave on a pinch.
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I would love to see Xurkitree come back in this era
Tera + everyone realizeing that Tail Glow is hella broken, especially with a Special Attack of 173 + 100+ bulk with Veil, it could be Regileki 2: less speed with actual coverage
Tera + everyone realizeing that Tail Glow is hella broken, especially with a Special Attack of 173 + 100+ bulk with Veil, it could be Regileki 2: less speed with actual coverage
It's too slow and fragile, and even if you burn tera it can easily be revenge killed by another mon. Even under veil, you have better options(manaphy) that can also function outside of veil, while Xurkitree folds the instant veil goes down.
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