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With Valiant on the roster he needs to tera to be usable most of the time, luckily, valiant has to work overtime, and disposing of valiant is not that hard, so this could work, bulletproof and soundproof are pretty interesting in the grand scheme, so I think he is gonna be great if we can get more hazard removal not weak to fairy
the hazard removal not weak to fairy in question: I really hope drill gets back, sand about to go wild again, maybe we can even see teraless garga or tera rock garga for massive memes and salt cure, that would be fun
We all know it's outclassed by bax, but who said you can't use them together, yes people, hail HO double hard hitting physical offense, dondozo is dying tonight
good in tr, fun in rain, will tear UU apart with tera, will make people spam chesnaught more, and then he will use aerial ace, classic crawdaunt
"NOOOOO WE NEED MORE WALLS NO MORE ATTACKERS BWAAA STALL IS LITERALLY UNVIABLE, JUST A GIMMICK YOU SEE IN 1100 WITH NO TOURNAMENT USAGE AND NO TEAMS AAAA" - A guy I'm punching to death with this and ursa
forget toxic, if this thing keeps defog, is going straight to fucking S, stall mon and stallbreaker, cool design, and probably won't run shitty mix sets to lure tusk, so lando is going to work at wallmart for 40 years and then die due to back pains and severe depression
This is the father of mix sets, you guys simp for mix sets right? then im pretty sure ape is going to be top 10 usage of all time, deserved to be honest, cool mon
[Verse 1: Clefable]
Through the glass twenty stories high
I have watched this meta burn
If everything that you said is true There is no hope someday they will learn
But if I stay here with you
Then I will never know the truth
[Hook: Dr. Finch]
Do not say this is how it has to be
[Hook: Dr. Finch]
Do not say this is how it has to be
You do no better than the fools of this burning city
[Lyric Note 1] Clefable stopped. His path through the city had led him to the grave of his brother. Men began to gather below the hilltop where he stood silently, reading the words of his father carved onto the crumbling marker
[Bridge: Clefable and Dr. Finch]
Even here it is not safe (You have heard me tell this story)
Even this grave has been defaced (Many times before you sleep)
Someone has written on this stone (No matter how dark this city gets)
In some angry hand: (Even now, there is hope for man)
Hope rides...
[Chorus]
ALONE
Hope rides alone
Hope rides alone
[Lyric Note 2] The buildings fly past him now. Clefable rushes towards the east side of the city, towards the fortress, towards his fate. The rusting metal loudspeakers mounted at intervals on the side of the stone wall are humming, chanting now words to settle the stir created by a stall hero. Words to quell a potential uprising. Words to inspire fear. Words to drive back the idea that freedom is within the grasp of one angry mob of wall breakers, headed by one unstoppable sweeper. One perfect offensive mon
[Hook: Clefable & Hyper Offense Cult]
If you say, "this how it has to be." (We have control. We keep you safe.)
You do no better than the fools of this burning city! (We are your hope.) But as I live(We have control.)
There is no sweeper that will stand (We keep you safe. We are your hope.)
And I will finish (We have control.)
What was started, (We keep you safe.) The fight of BIG STALL(We are your hope.)
[Outro: Hyper Offense Cult]
We have control
We keep you safe
We are your hope
We have control
We keep you safe
We are your hope
We have control
We keep you safe
We are your hope
I'd like to hear your thoughts on all of these, as these stood out as the most odd pokemon in the lot. I'll break them down one by one.
Chi-Yu
The funny calc feesh was really not the best tera abuser, because it already blew up everything with Beads of Ruin already. If anything, its defensive typing is a boon, allowing it to check Gholdengo and Gambit well. As a defensive or reactionary Tera, it could see a lot more use with something like Tera Flying or Fairy to beat Iron Valiant and other fast fighting types, or stifle an opposing Bax's EQ or Glaive Rush to freely set up Nasty Plot or Substitute. However, that usage can be for literally any offensive pokemon, and there were a whole lot more dangerous pokemon to Tera against HO, since it would already shred balance and sometimes defense with Nasty Plot to beat Blissey. It was also inarguably broken even without using Tera, as it can do stuff like 2HKO most of the special walls in the meta, some of them WHILE HOLDING SCARF. Only Blissey could really stand up to it, but i'm sure you've already seen the funny calcs about Specs Tera Fire Overheat in the Sun.
Garg
I get it why you think this needs to be banned. This thing is possibly the most consistent chip damage spreader in the entire metagame. However, its flaws hold it back from being banworthy. Firstly, the Rock typing is terrible defensively, and it can be hit for big damage by common staples like Tusk, Meow, Ghold, Tera Ground Bax, Gren, Lando, etc. If it doesn't Tera, what happens most games in my experience is: Garg switches in, usually taking minimal damage from something like Pyro Ball or a status-inflicting move. I swap to one of the Pokemon listed above as Garg uses Salt Cure. My pokemon takes an average of 18% damage, unless it's Ghold or a water type, which take 29%. Garg is then forced out as I have momentum, sometimes protecting if it thinks the pokemon in front of it is choiced or doesn't have setup. It usually Teras to be able to beat these checks, but having a pokemon be forced to Tera to do its job is generally not a good thing. However, even if it Teras, you can still just beat it down with strong attacks like Specs Valiant Moonblast or Facade from Ursaluna, and generally its Tera has to choose between Fairy for beating Bax or Water for beating Ghold, both extremely strong pokemon in the metagame. It can still use Salt Cure against these pokemon, but let me reiterate: A Ghold at 70% afflicted by Salt Cure that forces the Garg out is a good position for the Ghold user to be in. They have the momentum now. Now, the final solutions aren't the most common, but both Substitute and Covert Cloak completely stifle any of these types of Garg sets, and Regenerator and Leftovers can help mitigate the damage Garg actually causes vs things like Tusk. Encore is now pretty common which also helps. Now, Garg's other sets are Curse and ID. I generally see Curse as suboptimal, since you are still vulnerable to strong threats like Ursaluna at just +1 rather than IDs +2, but if you really want to kill Tera Flying Substitute/Cloak Gholdengo or something I guess it would work. ID combined with Body Press and Salt Cure is a very good wincon, but most of Garg's counterplay still apply, such as Encore, Taunt, special attackers, Haze, Regenerator, some pokemon that can boost up with it, and Substitute/Cloak. However, this means you cannot use Garg a lot in the game before, as many matchups it should theoretically win are neutered if it is at even at 60% hp. Overall, a good pokemon for spreading chip and sometimes a pretty good wincon, but it has its downsides in every situation and you will rarely come across a Garg that your team just has no way to beat at all.
Gliscor
I think this is actually going to be a really good pokemon, at least if the current spikes infested meta stays present in the DLC shift. Poison Heal combined with U-turn allow it to stick around all game and be a pretty good pivot. It will face competition from Tusk and Landorus ofc, but I think it has enough unique tools (mainly reliable recovery) to differentiate itself. However, I disagree with the notion that it's banworthy. For starters, stall completely shits on its SD with Dozo. Even if it runs both Taunt and Toxic to be a good stallbreaker, Dozo still 3HKOs only hp-invested Gliscors, and Liquidation defense drops as well as Roost's limited PP mean that it can't stall forever against Dozo. Now, it could Tera and avoid this, and it's true that this set basically completely destroys stall. However, you are now a dedicated stallbreaker, doomed to be forever useless against special attackers or Corv. Running a dedicated stallbreaker to basically 6-0 stall in previous generations wasn't considered broken. Its other set, the pivot, struggles with just not having enough bulk to weather the metagame forever, and is generally pretty weak without SD. Its important to remember that Annihilape, while it definitely did effortlessly destroy stall, was banned primarily for its matchup against balanced structures. To quote the quickban, "Reducing the amount of non-lethal damage Annihilape takes or making extremely powerful moves such as Chi-Yu's Overheat no longer lethal makes Rage Fist stronger and lets Annihilape stick around and potentially recover anyway through Leftovers and Drain Punch." Stall wasn't packing Chi-Yu. It wasn't useless against HO either. Several very common matchups, like Dragapult, can't even 2HKO it with specs Draco Meteor with the standard SpDef set. After a Bulk Up, it beat things like Roaring Moon, Nite, and Bax, which all can't 2HKO it and it can just Bulk Up more and stay healthy with Drain Punch. At the very least, it would comfortably trade against things, but many times it would take more than that if you played less than perfectly. Gliscor does none of this, because you're not afraid to actually attack it, and it doesn't have a recovery move that also deals damage. Edit: somehow this became an annihilape busted post, but the point is that the fact that gliscor can stallbreak effectively does not mean it will be broken
I think this is actually going to be a really good pokemon, at least if the current spikes infested meta stays present in the DLC shift. Poison Heal combined with U-turn allow it to stick around all game and be a pretty good pivot. It will face competition from Tusk and Landorus ofc, but I think it has enough unique tools (mainly reliable recovery) to differentiate itself. However, I disagree with the notion that it's banworthy. For starters, stall completely shits on its SD with Dozo. Even if it runs both Taunt and Toxic to be a good stallbreaker, Dozo still 3HKOs only hp-invested Gliscors, and Liquidation defense drops as well as Roost's limited PP mean that it can't stall forever against Dozo. Now, it could Tera and avoid this, and it's true that this set basically completely destroys stall. However, you are now a dedicated stallbreaker, doomed to be forever useless against special attackers or Corv. Running a dedicated stallbreaker to basically 6-0 stall in previous generations wasn't considered broken. Its other set, the pivot, struggles with just not having enough bulk to weather the metagame forever, and is generally pretty weak without SD. Its important to remember that Annihilape, while it definitely did effortlessly destroy stall, was banned primarily for its matchup against balanced structures. To quote the quickban, "Reducing the amount of non-lethal damage Annihilape takes or making extremely powerful moves such as Chi-Yu's Overheat no longer lethal makes Rage Fist stronger and lets Annihilape stick around and potentially recover anyway through Leftovers and Drain Punch." Stall wasn't packing Chi-Yu. It wasn't useless against HO either. Several very common matchups, like Dragapult, can't even 2HKO it with specs Draco Meteor with the standard SpDef set. After a Bulk Up, it beat things like Roaring Moon, Nite, and Bax, which all can't 2HKO it and it can just Bulk Up more and stay healthy with Drain Punch. At the very least, it would comfortably trade against things, but many times it would take more than that if you played less than perfectly. Gliscor does none of this, because you're not afraid to actually attack it, and it doesn't have a recovery move that also deals damage.
I don,t think its ban worthy due to SD sets, those have always been pretty easy to stop even without Unawares. What I do think its unhealthy is Spikes (which it gained in PLA and will probably keep as TM Move)+ Poison Heal combination. The rest of Spikers can be worn down over the course of a match with either Status, chip or Knock Off. This one is going to stay alive by just existing, you need to actually kill it offensively to stop doing its job. It will probably be a Knock Off user too, so Boots teams aren,t safe either. Hatterene does kinda wall it, but needs Rest to consistently do so. So, I think Gliscor will make Metagame even more offensive and hazard centered that it already is.
Of course, banning either Spikes or Knock Off is an option, but realistically its never happening.
I don,t think its ban worthy due to SD sets, those have always been pretty easy to stop even without Unawares. What I do think its unhealthy is Spikes (which it gained in PLA and will probably keep as TM Move)+ Poison Heal combination. The rest of Spikers can be worn down over the course of a match with either Status, chip or Knock Off. This one is going to stay alive by just existing, you need to actually kill it offensively to stop doing its job. It will probably be a Knock Off user too, so Boots teams aren,t safe either. Hatterene does kinda wall it, but needs Rest to consistently do so. So, I think Gliscor will make Metagame even more offensive and hazard centered that it already is.
Of course, banning either Spikes or Knock Off is an option, but realistically its never happening.
Hazards have been prevalent the entire generation due to Gholdengo and while Gliscor will be more sustainable than current Spikers, it is also a lot more passive than Samurott-H, Greninja, and Garchomp, while also not having the sheer bulk or phasing capabilities of Ting-Lu. While yes, it might stick around longer, its impact will be limited to setting spikes and knocking off boots, and it will often only get one layer before something switches in that forces it out. Pokemon like Garchomp are good spikers because you can't just switch into Iron Valiant without running the risk of getting chunked by an EQ or just destroyed by the rarer Iron Head, which gliscor just... doesn't have the offensive pressure for. The best it can do is Toxic (if it's getting that back, I'm still unclear on that) or Knock Off the switch in, which isn't as immediate as just 2HKOing them. Ting-Lu also sort of struggles with this problem (although the funny band set is peak pokemon and should be used more), but it can usually Tera and survive the switch in and lay more hazards or do big damage with Ruination. If a pokemon starts setting up in front of it, it can Whirlwind them away. The bottom line is that I think Spikers in this generation focus more on their opponent dying fast than surviving forever, and in our offensive meta, I think that's the best option.
oh
OH
wait a fucking minute
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tera Bug Lokix First Impression vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 226-266 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lokix: 119-140 (42 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
forget everything I just said
ban this little shit NOW
Yea, I saw the stats it had especially its defense, but didn't expected to do all that damage even if Facade has 140 BP with status and it's not STAB, and now I feel even more dumb
I doubt Excadrill returning can make Tyranitar OU again, Tyranitar is extremely awful in OU and only having Excadrill is a beneficiary is not good, especially because Excadrill also struggles with common mons.
Great Tusk/Ting Lu eat even +2 earthquakes like they're nothing and OHKOs in return, Kingambit can revenge kill with sucker punch and always lives +2 earthquake if it terastalizes out of ground weakness, Gholdengo with air balloon intact can stop excadrill in it's tracks, Zamazenta revenge kills with ease and Dondozo completely stops drill from doing anything. The return of Gliscor is also very bad for Excadrill.
There's other good Excadrill checks but I don't feel like writing an essay about every single possible check, but excadrill has a ton of already existing common counterplay and is the only beneficiary of sand stream in the entire game outside ttar and other shitmons.
Excadrill is probably gonna be uu like last gen. BUT! Hear me out. What about sand force excadrill? Excadrill sits at a really nice base 88 speed stat, just enough to outspeed jolly tusk and mons hitting 301 to outspeed tusk. Excadrill with sand rush has a 6.6% chance of ohko-ing phys def tusk with eq after lefties, however sand force can guarantee 2hko phys def tusk and also guarantee 2hko spdef ting lu. It can also use shadow claw (it has this in gen 8 and it's a tm in sv) to beat balloon dengo (why would u do that is beyond me but it's an option). Dondozo beats it but dozo beats pretty much every physical set up sweeper in the game. 244hp and 52def gliscor has a chance to be ohko'd by sand force iron head after rocks. Pretty much the only way to 2hko corv is +2 loaded dice rock blast, physdef zapdos and moltres get ohko'd by rock slide. Cress can also get 2hko'd by loaded dice rock blast and it isn't very threatening before it sets up. Loaded dice rock blast also ruins other mons like dragonite, bax, enamorus, +1 loaded dice rock blast can also 2hko bulky landorus. I'm not going to keep going but I think sand force excadrill has some potential (also rocks with mold breaker is also useful for magic bounce). Also I just realized that iron head is actually not necessary. Also also, fairy tera to beat gambit bc if gambit doesn't turn flying it will die to eq even if it's neutral, fairy excadrill can also beat banded zama but it loses to bp zama.
Excadrill is probably gonna be uu like last gen. BUT! Hear me out. What about sand force excadrill? Excadrill sits at a really nice base 88 speed stat, just enough to outspeed jolly tusk and mons hitting 301 to outspeed tusk. Excadrill with sand rush has a 6.6% chance of ohko-ing phys def tusk with eq after lefties, however sand force can guarantee 2hko phys def tusk and also guarantee 2hko spdef ting lu. It can also use shadow claw (it has this in gen 8 and it's a tm in sv) to beat balloon dengo (why would u do that is beyond me but it's an option). Dondozo beats it but dozo beats pretty much every physical set up sweeper in the game. 244hp and 52def gliscor has a chance to be ohko'd by sand force iron head after rocks. Pretty much the only way to 2hko corv is +2 loaded dice rock blast, physdef zapdos and moltres get ohko'd by rock slide. Cress can also get 2hko'd by loaded dice rock blast and it isn't very threatening before it sets up. Loaded dice rock blast also ruins other mons like dragonite, bax, enamorus, +1 loaded dice rock blast can also 2hko bulky landorus. I'm not going to keep going but I think sand force excadrill has some potential (also rocks with mold breaker is also useful for magic bounce). Also I just realized that iron head is actually not necessary. Also also, fairy tera to beat gambit bc if gambit doesn't turn flying it will die to eq even if it's neutral, fairy excadrill can also beat banded zama but it loses to bp zama.
+2 252 Atk Sand Force Tera Ground Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 346-408 (79.7 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
The urshifu’s are probably intentional while zacian and zamazenta’s crowned formes are battle exclusive so they don’t change formes until the battle has started
The urshifu’s are probably intentional while zacian and zamazenta’s crowned formes are battle exclusive so they don’t show up until the battle has started
Yea, especially with Urshifu to add a surprise factor and don't let the opponent see which you have, same goes for Arceus and there is a reason of why Zoroark isn't so used, because your opponent only has to guess which Pokémon Zoroark is disguised as but knows that there is a Zoroark.
Zoroark's usage would probably sky-rocket if there wasn't any team preview at all (and ironic that was introduced in the same Gen thatput the team preview)
Excadrill still has access to Tera. Just spitballing this, but Water fixes a lot of its problems (can't be assed to calc rn but it probably breaks through Tusk and Ting Lu at +2) while also preventing a lot of Rain/Sun mons from rolling over it.
Excadrill still has access to Tera. Just spitballing this, but Water fixes a lot of its problems (can't be assed to calc rn but it probably breaks through Tusk and Ting Lu at +2) while also preventing a lot of Rain/Sun mons from rolling over it.
At one point I remember Drilbur accidentally being distributed with Hydro Pump. I think Nintendo tagged it as illegal but I imagine that would legitimately have had use nowadays to break Tusk without Teraing lol
Edit:
240 SpA Excadrill Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 218-258 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
silly proposal: since the dlc1 meta will only last a couple months, what if we just gave the council a vacation, didn't ban anything at all that whole time, and used this period to fuck around
silly proposal: since the dlc1 meta will only last a couple months, what if we just gave the council a vacation, didn't ban anything at all that whole time, and used this period to fuck around
Maybe a initial round of quickbanning, followed by followup council radars after the first round of quickbans settle out. Skip out the suspects, since any suspect would basically take up half to a third of the dlc 'season' and then zoom right straight into a brand new meta with dlc 2. I like suspects when a meta is more stable, and I think we will still be getting aftershocks from dlc 1 by the time dlc 2 comes around.
Honestly looking how dlc and 'slow drip' releases are compared to the 'crystal version ' type releases of old, managing a modern OU seems like hell.
This current meta is so mind numbing and I am glad its almost over. Playing SV OU is brainrot.
Sun? Bring out your broken abuser and just break everything.
Rain? Bascu and Greninja casually 2hkoing water resists.
HO? Brainless spikes with broken Bax, Wake, and Gambit (yes I regret wanting it to stay).
Everything feels overwhelming and the meta has devolved into matchup fishing. You build a team with 2-3 Gambit checks and then you realize Wake 6-0s it .
I point the blame at a few components.
1: Lack of hazard removal
Duh.
2: Missing Defensive Options
While we do have strong defensive options like Glowking, Dozo, and Garg. Its apparent that they can’t handle everything. Glowking cannot handle checking both Wake and Valiant at the same time, there is just too much offensive pressure going on. Dozo needs to constantly be clicking Rest to keep itself alive against the plethora of physical attackers but Rest makes it exploitable to said mons.
So the only mon in the tier that isn’t easily overwhelmed is Garg. This problem is half-contributed to spikes being out of control and also cause certain defensive options are gone. Currently we don’t have a good Knock absorber like we did with Clef/Gliscor. We’re missing defensive staples like Ferro, Buzzwole, Fini, and Tangrowth. Some of them were nerfed upon entering Gen 9. Slowbro would’ve been a fantastic physical wall had they not removed Teleport (or given it Chilly Reception ffs). Gastro lost Scald, Pex lost Scald, Hippo lost Toxic, Scizor and Hydrei lost Roost for no fucking reason. Torn lost almost all its utility. Don’t even get me started with Blissey.
3: Baxcalibur
Imo more broken than Gambit rn. At least with Gambit you can punish it for clicking Sucker or SD with Encore. Bax has few reliable checks to it and even those checks have their own problems. Balloon Steels lose if they switch into anything that isn’t an EQ since Bax can now just EQ again, and if it is Band, sometimes it doesn’t even need to.
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 181-214 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 158-187 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Azu can take a +2 EQ, but it had yo be very healthy in order to do so which is incredibly hard btw when you also need it to check Wake and switch into spikes, going back to the first two points I made.
Dozo gets 2HKOd by Band Tera Dragon Glaive and if it clicks Tera Fairy, you no longer check Gambit and Bax can flinch hax you.
Valiant loses to Tera Fairy or Tera Poison, and Bax can OHKO it with a +2 Never-Melt-Ice Tera Ice Ice Shard after rocks. Guaranteed if Adamant.
+2 252+ Atk Never-Melt Ice Tera Ice Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 272-322 (94.1 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Scizor can’t switch in repeatedly. Would’ve been nice to have Roost, Game Freak.
Bax has attributes that push it over other breakers. Having the Atk stat of Lando with 115/92/86 bulk, and priority Ice Shard. Not to mention Tera which makes offensively checking it overly complicated. There are barely any mons that outspeed Bax that don’t drop to a +2 Ice Shard and can kill it. Being much less reliant on Tera than Gambit is. What removing Fini and Buzzwole does to a mfer.
4: Walking Wake
I have no idea why we as a community allowed it to slide back in Pre-Home meta when it was suspected. Here we have Dracovish but given cocaine and caffeine.
Look at this calc for a minute.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill in Sun: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
A MAX HP Azumarill is 2HKOd by a resisted water move after rocks, the mon that is supposed to be a check to it with its Water/Fairy typing. Keep in mind this is without the SpA boost, if it does get the Proto boost, Wake becomes Dracovish 2.0 under Sun.
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 202-238 (46.7 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Rotom-Wash in Sun: 128-151 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
So if bulky water resists can’t switch in, what else do we have? Water Absorb mons, and they can’t even switch into Draco without Tera Fairy
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 434-514 (93.7 - 111%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 339-399 (102.7 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 380-448 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Oh you Tera Fairy’d ur Clodsire? That’s fine, Flamethrower 2HKOs it either way.
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fairy Clodsire in Sun: 201-237 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Even though it is entirely reliant on Sun for these calcs, Sun atm has risen in popularity, mostly due part to people remembering how broken Wake is. It only has two weaknesses to Fairy and Dragon. With the 109 speed and decent bulk for an offensive threat, there are very few things that can one-shot and outspeed it. Your only options are Draco from Pult, Play Rough from Meow, Moonblast from Valiant or Scarf Enam. That is all assuming Wake isn’t at +1 from Proto, which in that case your options are even fewer.
5: Same-Type Tera
I know this should probably be saved for the Tera Discussion thread but it’s relevant to this post. While I do not think Tera itself is broken, I feel one aspect of it that isn’t dynamic and legit broken is double STAB via Tera. What if Gems didn’t require an itemslot? You get this. Double STAB Tera has led to incredibly ridiculous calcs and contributes to why trying to build in the tier is difficult.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Dragon Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Garganacl: 340-402 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Water Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur: 225-265 (60.6 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Water Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur in Rain: 338-398 (91.1 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 200-236 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 323-380 (111.7 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculegion Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 161-190 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Checking rain is a hassle when you have to switch into both Basculegion and Greninja, especially when one of them is 2HKOING TOXAPEX.
6: DLC postponing council action
DLC1 is less than two weeks away, which is not enough time to take action on anything atm. Even if we did, it would most likely be reversed with new additions balancing them out. Not to say we weren’t able to get anything done, we had two whole suspect tests, including one for Gambit even if nothing changed as a result, so the council is doing its best to ensure a more competitive landscape that satisfies the playerbase, but its hard to do it when GameFreak keeps pumping out constant updates in a meta that needs more time to balance. As a builder I am not a fan of this metagame, building in the tier is constricting due to these issues and possibly more. Honestly Glowking, Tusk, and Valiant are trying their hardest to hold this chaotic metagame together. This gen feels like Gen 5 OU where there is some broken shit flying around but we have no idea where to start due to the broken checks broken nature of the tier.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I miss Gen 8 man.
I don't remember gen 8 that well because my memory's bad and I started playing halfway through gen 8. Also, I only started getting better in gen 9, but that isn't the point. I do remember weavile being good, which is really sad because banded weavile was pretty insane and fun to use. Also there were a lot of options to use and it wasn't super powercrept (pretend zacian and calyrex didn't exist). Can someone remind me why gen 8 was bad?
Hard to tell honestly from one who never played it, but from what I heard is with Heavy-Duty-Boots that helped mon like Volcarona, Dynamax that the got banned, Dracovish, Darmanitan Galar, Urshifu with Melmetal, Regieleki just to name a few without obv the doggos and horses
Hell, was so incredibly good against the three tops in Ubers (Dusk-Mane, Eternatus and Yveltal) plus its type helped with Calyrex Shadow, Triple Axel and Beat Up even ignored the pyshical contact and could 2hko a Ferrothorn without touching iron barbs and rocky helmet
Hell, was so incredibly good against the three tops in Ubers (Dusk-Mane, Eternatus and Yveltal) plus its type helped with Calyrex Shadow, Triple Axel and Beat Up even ignored the pyshical contact and could 2hko a Ferrothorn without touching iron barbs and rocky helmet
Hard to tell honestly from one who never played it, but from what I heard is with Heavy-Duty-Boots that helped mon like Volcarona, Dynamax that the got banned, Dracovish, Darmanitan Galar, Urshifu with Melmetal, Regieleki just to name a few without obv the doggos and horses
I got back into competitive around the end of Gen 8, so I might be wrong, but the current problem people have is that it's ironically too much of a balance fest. Most games are based around pivoting, teleport, regen cores, toxic, Flame Body/Static odds, etc. Earlier in the generation it seems like people had a problem with how long things like Urshifu, Spectrier, and Magearna stayed (Volc decision aside, I have no complaints about the radar approach this gen for this reason)
I don't remember gen 8 that well because my memory's bad and I started playing halfway through gen 8. Also, I only started getting better in gen 9, but that isn't the point. I do remember weavile being good, which is really sad because banded weavile was pretty insane and fun to use. Also there were a lot of options to use and it wasn't super powercrept (pretend zacian and calyrex didn't exist). Can someone remind me why gen 8 was bad?
It's hard to make progress. HDB plus widespread defog availability neutered entry hazards, which made already-good regen cores much stronger, which had great synergy with the bulky Knock Off absorbers, which made pivoting around safer and more reliable. Toss in that some of the best mons in the tier were bulky, and you get a metagame where positioning rules all and everything slows way down.
There's some discussion over there, but the image is the important part: not only had game length crept up for both mean (average) and median, but the difference between the two had increased. That increase indicates some combination of the number of very long games were going up, or the games that went very long were increasing in length.
This current meta is so mind numbing and I am glad its almost over. Playing SV OU is brainrot.
Sun? Bring out your broken abuser and just break everything.
Rain? Bascu and Greninja casually 2hkoing water resists.
HO? Brainless spikes with broken Bax, Wake, and Gambit (yes I regret wanting it to stay).
Everything feels overwhelming and the meta has devolved into matchup fishing. You build a team with 2-3 Gambit checks and then you realize Wake 6-0s it .
I point the blame at a few components.
1: Lack of hazard removal
Duh.
2: Missing Defensive Options
While we do have strong defensive options like Glowking, Dozo, and Garg. Its apparent that they can’t handle everything. Glowking cannot handle checking both Wake and Valiant at the same time, there is just too much offensive pressure going on. Dozo needs to constantly be clicking Rest to keep itself alive against the plethora of physical attackers but Rest makes it exploitable to said mons.
So the only mon in the tier that isn’t easily overwhelmed is Garg. This problem is half-contributed to spikes being out of control and also cause certain defensive options are gone. Currently we don’t have a good Knock absorber like we did with Clef/Gliscor. We’re missing defensive staples like Ferro, Buzzwole, Fini, and Tangrowth. Some of them were nerfed upon entering Gen 9. Slowbro would’ve been a fantastic physical wall had they not removed Teleport (or given it Chilly Reception ffs). Gastro lost Scald, Pex lost Scald, Hippo lost Toxic, Scizor and Hydrei lost Roost for no fucking reason. Torn lost almost all its utility. Don’t even get me started with Blissey.
3: Baxcalibur
Imo more broken than Gambit rn. At least with Gambit you can punish it for clicking Sucker or SD with Encore. Bax has few reliable checks to it and even those checks have their own problems. Balloon Steels lose if they switch into anything that isn’t an EQ since Bax can now just EQ again, and if it is Band, sometimes it doesn’t even need to.
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 181-214 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 158-187 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Azu can take a +2 EQ, but it had yo be very healthy in order to do so which is incredibly hard btw when you also need it to check Wake and switch into spikes, going back to the first two points I made.
Dozo gets 2HKOd by Band Tera Dragon Glaive and if it clicks Tera Fairy, you no longer check Gambit and Bax can flinch hax you.
Valiant loses to Tera Fairy or Tera Poison, and Bax can OHKO it with a +2 Never-Melt-Ice Tera Ice Ice Shard after rocks. Guaranteed if Adamant.
+2 252+ Atk Never-Melt Ice Tera Ice Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 272-322 (94.1 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Scizor can’t switch in repeatedly. Would’ve been nice to have Roost, Game Freak.
Bax has attributes that push it over other breakers. Having the Atk stat of Lando with 115/92/86 bulk, and priority Ice Shard. Not to mention Tera which makes offensively checking it overly complicated. There are barely any mons that outspeed Bax that don’t drop to a +2 Ice Shard and can kill it. Being much less reliant on Tera than Gambit is. What removing Fini and Buzzwole does to a mfer.
4: Walking Wake
I have no idea why we as a community allowed it to slide back in Pre-Home meta when it was suspected. Here we have Dracovish but given cocaine and caffeine.
Look at this calc for a minute.
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill in Sun: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
A MAX HP Azumarill is 2HKOd by a resisted water move after rocks, the mon that is supposed to be a check to it with its Water/Fairy typing. Keep in mind this is without the SpA boost, if it does get the Proto boost, Wake becomes Dracovish 2.0 under Sun.
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 202-238 (46.7 - 55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Rotom-Wash in Sun: 128-151 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
So if bulky water resists can’t switch in, what else do we have? Water Absorb mons, and they can’t even switch into Draco without Tera Fairy
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 434-514 (93.7 - 111%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 339-399 (102.7 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 380-448 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Oh you Tera Fairy’d ur Clodsire? That’s fine, Flamethrower 2HKOs it either way.
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fairy Clodsire in Sun: 201-237 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
Even though it is entirely reliant on Sun for these calcs, Sun atm has risen in popularity, mostly due part to people remembering how broken Wake is. It only has two weaknesses to Fairy and Dragon. With the 109 speed and decent bulk for an offensive threat, there are very few things that can one-shot and outspeed it. Your only options are Draco from Pult, Play Rough from Meow, Moonblast from Valiant or Scarf Enam. That is all assuming Wake isn’t at +1 from Proto, which in that case your options are even fewer.
5: Same-Type Tera
I know this should probably be saved for the Tera Discussion thread but it’s relevant to this post. While I do not think Tera itself is broken, I feel one aspect of it that isn’t dynamic and legit broken is double STAB via Tera. What if Gems didn’t require an itemslot? You get this. Double STAB Tera has led to incredibly ridiculous calcs and contributes to why trying to build in the tier is difficult.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Dragon Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Garganacl: 340-402 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Water Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur: 225-265 (60.6 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tera Water Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur in Rain: 338-398 (91.1 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 200-236 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Enamorus: 323-380 (111.7 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Basculegion Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 161-190 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Checking rain is a hassle when you have to switch into both Basculegion and Greninja, especially when one of them is 2HKOING TOXAPEX.
6: DLC postponing council action
DLC1 is less than two weeks away, which is not enough time to take action on anything atm. Even if we did, it would most likely be reversed with new additions balancing them out. Not to say we weren’t able to get anything done, we had two whole suspect tests, including one for Gambit even if nothing changed as a result, so the council is doing its best to ensure a more competitive landscape that satisfies the playerbase, but its hard to do it when GameFreak keeps pumping out constant updates in a meta that needs more time to balance. As a builder I am not a fan of this metagame, building in the tier is constricting due to these issues and possibly more. Honestly Glowking, Tusk, and Valiant are trying their hardest to hold this chaotic metagame together. This gen feels like Gen 5 OU where there is some broken shit flying around but we have no idea where to start due to the broken checks broken nature of the tier.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I miss Gen 8 man.
I'm gonna say on a whim that tera as a whole is probably the problem, as defensive tera is way too strong as well. Gambit, Volc, and Gholdengo are pokemon considered to be broken with tera because of both offensive and defensive tera. This applies to a lot of the meta currently, and I think its getting clearer that tera as a whole is the issue.
Not going to say anymore as I would like to keep this discussion in the tera thread. But yeah even if gen 8 was slow it definitely feels better to play than gen 9 in its current state
With Valiant on the roster he needs to tera to be usable most of the time, luckily, valiant has to work overtime, and disposing of valiant is not that hard, so this could work, bulletproof and soundproof are pretty interesting in the grand scheme, so I think he is gonna be great if we can get more hazard removal not weak to fairy
the hazard removal not weak to fairy in question: I really hope drill gets back, sand about to go wild again, maybe we can even see teraless garga or tera rock garga for massive memes and salt cure, that would be fun
We all know it's outclassed by bax, but who said you can't use them together, yes people, hail HO double hard hitting physical offense, dondozo is dying tonight
good in tr, fun in rain, will tear UU apart with tera, will make people spam chesnaught more, and then he will use aerial ace, classic crawdaunt
"NOOOOO WE NEED MORE WALLS NO MORE ATTACKERS BWAAA STALL IS LITERALLY UNVIABLE, JUST A GIMMICK YOU SEE IN 1100 WITH NO TOURNAMENT USAGE AND NO TEAMS AAAA" - A guy I'm punching to death with this and ursa
forget toxic, if this thing keeps defog, is going straight to fucking S, stall mon and stallbreaker, cool design, and probably won't run shitty mix sets to lure tusk, so lando is going to work at wallmart for 40 years and then die due to back pains and severe depression
This is the father of mix sets, you guys simp for mix sets right? then im pretty sure ape is going to be top 10 usage of all time, deserved to be honest, cool mon
bax + tera ice gambit + sd samu-h + NP ballon ghol + NP glowking LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Chi-Yu 
Garg
Gliscor
