Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

Status
Not open for further replies.
I posted this Calc in another thread

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 163-193 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Grassy Terrain: 211-249 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

Breloom missed Gen 8, give this to him. 2 Priority options (one conditional or not) and Spore screams for Set-up Mon or Choice Band disruption. Give me Talonflame Part 2: Birds on Shrooms!

Even funnier when one considered

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 264-312 (91.3 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant in Grassy Terrain: 223-264 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Breloom would have a significantly stronger glide without terrain compared to Rilla which is in terrain.

Having double priority loom would be awesome. Give us this game freak. If anything. Give this one thing.
 
Honestly the most hype thing is garchomp getting scale shot back to be honest since we know for a fact scale shot is probably gonna be a tm since its already patched in the game. (Even if only roaring moon gets it as of right now.)

If triple axel returns though (if it gets patched in so it can remain as a tm in the dlc, since triple axel is one of the few swsh tutor moves not in the game at all currently.), weavile will benefit hugely.

It's speculation from you that Garchomp is getting Scale Shot back. Even if Roaring Moon gets Scale Shot, that doesn't mean that a Scale Shot TM is coming with the first DLC. It might not be coming until the second DLC.
 
Brambleghast is likely gonna be the biggest winner here IF it gets Poltergeist. Wind Rider lets it switch into Zapdos Hurricane pretty comfortably and do this in return:

+1 252 Atk Brambleghast Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 283-334 (88.1 - 104%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO Copied

It can very easily threaten the evil Ting-Lu + Glowking + Zapdos core that can be annoying the fight against and even has solid MUs vs some of the other mons run on these structures might run like Garganacl and Great Tusk. Granted, it has a bad MU vs Gambit, which may seal its fate. Probably still bad in OU since its Gambit food, but Brambleghast enjoyers will take what they can get.

Lash Out will be completely useless as it was last generation, but MAYBE will have some fringe use on the odd Bisharp or Weavile you see here and there. Its slightly stronger than their current best STAB option, Night Slash, so it will be doing roughly 5 - 6% more on neutral targets after an SD. This may matter in some fringe scenarios.

+2 252+ Atk Tera Dark Bisharp Lash Out vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 356-420 (92.7 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO Copied
+2 252+ Atk Tera Dark Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 332-392 (86.4 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Gonna be real, Bisharp and Weavile are really fringe options as in, but maybe the 2 or 3 Bisharp enjoyers can make some heat team where this option can actually work and not be a meme.

Rillaboom was a good Pokemon even without Grassy Glide, but I think it will be a mainstream option once now that it regained this option. Despite the nerf to 60 BP, Grassy Glide is one of the strongest priority options in the game in Grassy Terrain and will give teams some more leeway against some annoying fast threats like Iron Valiant and Walking Wake. Grassy Terrain itself is also bound to become more common, which is a good thing, as it can help certain Pokemon recover off chip damage from hazards and take ground attacks better (looking at you Gholdengo, Kingambit, and Slowking-G).

Also Moyashi mentioned this, but Breloom will be a funny meme in Grassy Terrain now that Glide got "nerfed" to 60 BP.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Grass Breloom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos in Grassy Terrain: 369-435 (96 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Burning Jealousy is useless since no relevant pokemon get the move lmao. Maybe Zoroark-H can pull off some mindgames with it, but I have not seen that mon used since Home dropped.

Toxic is a big wild card since its effect on the meta will depend on its distribution. If it keeps its wide distribution in tact, I think some new users like Corviknight, Gholdengo, Ting-Lu, and Dondozo will make decent use of it to pressure certain Pokemon like Zapdos. Heatran, Hippowdon, and Blissey will all be meta picks again since they aren't as passive. However, if its distribution is largely cut like it was in BDSP, it's effect will depend on the new users of the move, which will be picked out of a hat as far as I'm concerned. We'll just have to wait for the datamine on that. I am hoping the distribution is cut, since switching in Zapdos or Dnite into Toxic was the worst feeling last gen.
 
Toxic is a big wild card since its effect on the meta will depend on its distribution. If it keeps its wide distribution in tact, I think some new users like Corviknight, Gholdengo, Ting-Lu, and Dondozo will make decent use of it to pressure certain Pokemon like Zapdos. Heatran, Hippowdon, and Blissey will all be meta picks again since they aren't as passive. However, if its distribution is largely cut like it was in BDSP, it's effect will depend on the new users of the move, which will be picked out of a hat as far as I'm concerned. We'll just have to wait for the datamine on that. I am hoping the distribution is cut, since switching in Zapdos or Dnite into Toxic was the worst feeling last gen.

Toxic on Heatran was obscenely obnoxious and why Heatran was a top threat for 4 generations. I pray that Heatran doesn't get Toxic again as it would be dumb to face. As of now, Heatran is super meh because of how offensive the meta is and because of the lack of Toxic, but it would be incredibly unfun to face if it had access to Toxic again.
 
Brambleghast is likely gonna be the biggest winner here IF it gets Poltergeist. Wind Rider lets it switch into Zapdos Hurricane pretty comfortably and do this in return:

+1 252 Atk Brambleghast Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 283-334 (88.1 - 104%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO Copied

It can very easily threaten the evil Ting-Lu + Glowking + Zapdos core that can be annoying the fight against and even has solid MUs vs some of the other mons run on these structures might run like Garganacl and Great Tusk. Granted, it has a bad MU vs Gambit, which may seal its fate. Probably still bad in OU since its Gambit food, but Brambleghast enjoyers will take what they can get.

As a fellow :brambleghast: enjoyer, this would be very cool to see. Having two high powered stab moves, power whip and poltergeist, on top of having great utility options in rapid spin, strength sap, and spikes, alongside other options like curse or leech seed, could see it being genuinely viable. As you said though, :kingambit: being the best mon in the tier is a huge issue for it which limits its viability.

anyways check out these calcs

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Brambleghast Poltergeist vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 538-634 (167.6 - 197.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Brambleghast Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 634-749 (123.3 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Brambleghast Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 460-541 (105.9 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Brambleghast Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 445-525 (115.2 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Toxic on Heatran was obscenely obnoxious and why Heatran was a top threat for 4 generations. I pray that Heatran doesn't get Toxic again as it would be dumb to face. As of now, Heatran is super meh because of how offensive the meta is and because of the lack of Toxic, but it would be incredibly unfun to face if it had access to Toxic again.
Yeah. SubToxTran is the nuts.
 
Rillaboom was a good Pokemon even without Grassy Glide,

Eh I wouldn't say that. By itself it was just okay, but not really what I would call good. Especially when zap, corv, Dragonite, moltres and others existed to stuff its offense. It was pretty exploitable during home. I do agree it'll be much better with glide, at least on paper, but that'll also depend on if it can withstand the hazard pressure this gen.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Tera Grass Breloom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos in Grassy Terrain: 369-435 (96 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Okay that's amazing.
 
Eh I wouldn't say that. By itself it was just okay, but not really what I would call good. Especially when zap, corv, Dragonite, moltres and others existed to stuff its offense. It was pretty exploitable during home. I do agree it'll be much better with glide, at least on paper, but that'll also depend on if it can withstand the hazard pressure this gen.



Okay that's amazing.
grassy terrain stonks about to rise! get them while they're cheap!!!

In all honesty though, if gamefreak brings these moves back and give them to those pokemon, there will be so many new toys to play with.
 
??? It wasn't. Scald was always limited in distribution and only seemed widely available because Smogon allowed use of transfer moves.
¿Qué?

44FC6EF9-D88F-4F32-9035-AAFFE4D937F8.jpeg

6A32C60A-CEBF-4A32-904F-1A29D26D4887.jpeg

24ECDD93-865A-40A5-ABC1-C0FF4D8704FB.jpeg

823339B9-CC5E-47A0-8241-3E8B95E10DE4.jpeg
 

Should've been clear: the move has always been accessible because of widespread distribution via tm, and in gen8, transfer. But discounting tms, the move is learned by almost nothing leveling up save like three. So in that sense yes, it was technically both. I'm mainly against the claim they're gonna suddenly limit distribution through tms too, especially as the move has never been an issue in official formats.
 
Pursuit would be obnoxious on Gambit or Ting-Lu, but I wouldn’t mind Pursuit being given to lesser Dark types like Skuntank and also Ttar. They need it more than ever in this power crept metagame.

It makes you feel so bad for Ttar in the modern era.

With that said, I think with ghosts wearing the hat of 'not being trappable' now a days, if pursuit came back, it would likely be a new kind of attack, with a new typing and everything to accommodate being bad vs ghosts instead of super effective against them. Maybe a bug type, maybe a fairy type, maybe a normal/fighting type attack. I just can't see pursuit coming back in a way that conflicts with the design direction of 'ghosts are slippery'
 
Guessing that was an end of month development. I was just checking the usage rates and Ice Body is on less than 20% for August. Obviously that number might have changed with the success in WCOP even without A-Tails coming back, but I wouldn't call that common. Fair point though that no one is using Wisp on Bax until it shows Ice Body. Though if/when Scald comes back the risk does go up greatly.

It's been a thing for most of the month but Abombasnow's surge has been a pretty recent development, Ice Body Bax was mostly a Glowking partner before. You can infer from teamcomp a bit but also relying on that alone can get you into trouble
 
Last edited:
Should've been clear: the move has always been accessible because of widespread distribution via tm, and in gen8, transfer. But discounting tms, the move is learned by almost nothing leveling up save like three. So in that sense yes, it was technically both. I'm mainly against the claim they're gonna suddenly limit distribution through tms too, especially as the move has never been an issue in official formats.
Ah, I see what you’re saying. In that regard, I can see it being a 50/50 because it’s never been limited before, but BDSP Toxic is a thing, and Toxic is a less problematic move in VGC than Scald is. You could argue Toxic’s distribution nerf was less for competitive balance and more for flavor though.
 
I'm mainly against the claim they're gonna suddenly limit distribution through tms too, especially as the move has never been an issue in official formats.

The reason I personally think they might scale it back is it still strikes me as telling that Scald was initially pulled from the TM list. Even if it isn't a problem in VGC it is still an insanely powerful moves and puts more competitive pressure on physical attackers who already need to deal with intimidate and Wisp.

With that said, I think with ghosts wearing the hat of 'not being trappable' now a days, if pursuit came back, it would likely be a new kind of attack, with a new typing and everything to accommodate being bad vs ghosts instead of super effective against them. Maybe a bug type, maybe a fairy type, maybe a normal/fighting type attack. I just can't see pursuit coming back in a way that conflicts with the design direction of 'ghosts are slippery'

A move with the built in Stake Out effect would be really cool.
 
I am excited for the DLC metagame, I also think Covert Cloak will finally shine with Scald around should it return.
Eh I believe for offensive mons Lum Berry is still better 90% of the time since Covert Cloak doesn't protect from status moves. Like the only scenario I would prefer Cloak is if I didn't want to risk multiple rolls for status.
 
Eh I believe for offensive mons Lum Berry is still better 90% of the time since Covert Cloak doesn't protect from status moves. Like the only scenario I would prefer Cloak is if I didn't want to risk multiple rolls for status.

With Covert Cloak you can setup more than once, especially in the face of Scald mons
 
My biggest concerns are as follows:

1.Will Toxic be restored to the movepool of most pkms in gen7 or more?or BDSP's toxic movepool?This will completely determine the fate of most PKMs

2.Can we get knock off/Defog TMs?(if knock off TMs,i will quick ban kingamibit!)

3.Who can learn Poltergeist? Basculegion-M/Ceruledge/Dragapult/ Ogerpon?Can they learn this great move?

4. when Scale Shot back,can Garchomp continue OU?or usage usually 20-30?

5.Can Basculegion-M and Floatzel get flip turn?


These will be very huge change,oh and When Dondozo can learn scald...grrrrr......
 
2.Can we get knock off/Defog TMs?(if knock off TMs,i will quick ban kingambit!)

If knock compatibility gets restored I hate to tell you but its probably gonna go to gen 8 compatibility as far as old mons, so thankfully no knock off kingambit.

If we get knock/defog tms tornadus-t is coming right back to OU probably, would be nice to have the old torn-t back!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top