unaware is nice, and with slack off and eviolite its pretty difficult to break through
i havent used it much so theres probably more nuance to it but it takes hits better than youd expect
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Resource SV NU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Stories
- Start date
- Status
i havent used it much so theres probably more nuance to it but it takes hits better than youd expect
nah this is basically just it---good setup sweeper wall that can deal w/ substitute users as well thanks to roar and is one of the few cetitan responses in the format (do not look at the tera ground eq calcs please)
Questions like these are better asked in the 'Simple Questions, Simple Answers' thread, but in short, Crocalor's Ability Unaware combined with it's decent bulk when holding an Eviolite makes it a great defensive piece that beats most setup sweepers.
What Rabia mentioned in the np thread also goes here, and from now on we will be enforcing this and be harsher when dealing with one liners or low effort posts, even handing out warns if needed specially for repeated offenses. Like tog brought up, we already have a thread where one liners are allowed for asking questions. We dont mind posts like "why is Y currently ranked so high/low?" to ask for other users input (after all, we want and encourage users to engage in discussions about rankings here) if you follow it up with your own opinions as to why it does or doesnt deserve its current ranking with replays, sets youve had success with, and so on; however, if all you wanna post is "why is veluza good?" or quoting someone just to say "thanks" then your post WILL be deleted and depending on the circumstances you WILL be infracted.
sorry ren
I know the viability rankings are lil outdated (can’t wait for the new one), but Raichu is a mon that definitely deserves its flowers in NU. Lightningrod allows it to be one of the few checks for volt switchers/tbolt, so makes it a lot more useful defensively than it seems. I’ve had a lot of success with specs as it ohkos conda with surf and threatens mons like copper with focus blast as well. It’s the only electric type in this tier who can do this without tera, which I think allows for more flexibility in the team builder. However, You can also run tera fairy draining kiss to ohko the fighters that decided to CC and get all your health back. It’s biggest hurdle is, funnily enough, jolteon, who can take wishtect surfs even after a +1. I think raichu is mostly likely a mid tier mon if you ask me.
252 Atk Tera Ground Cetitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Crocalor: 242-288 (66.1 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (jolly)
252 Atk Tera Ground Cetitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Crocalor: 186-218 (50.8 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (also jolly)
252+ Atk Tera Ground Cetitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Crocalor: 266-314 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (adamant)
252+ Atk Tera Ground Cetitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Crocalor: 204-240 (55.7 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ( also adamant)
252+ Atk Tera Ground Cetitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Crocalor: 266-314 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Not terrible but sorry
252+ Atk Tera Ground Cetitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Crocalor: 186-218 (50.8 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
naturally tho mons is not just a game of damage calc walls; the main reason croc is an Okay check to cetitan is that if you switch in on drum, you can wisp it the next turn and beat it one-on-one (if no stealth rock ofc)
we're currently voting on some quickbans, but I do want to nominate up
to High Tier regardless of how our vote goes, in practice it plays out just like pompom and sensu have. its defensive typing is definitely a shortcoming because of the 4x stealth rock weakness, but naturally Tera can cover that up easily. I've found great success with Tera Grass sets, but Ground is probably good too. Recently uploaded a video with it on my YT channel, so you can hunt that one down if you want to see it in action bop
Why are you calcing Tera with Cetitan without factoring that Croc can also Tera? Why is Crocalor 0 defense investment if tasked with beating a physical attacker? If Cetitan is immediately clicking Earthquake as you switch in, that still means you’ve successfully stopped Belly Drum.
Aware that the viability rankings are a bit dated by now, but just thought I’d share my thoughts here on a couple things I find cool regardless
Low Tier -> High Tier
I think Cacturne is a genuinely great pick right now. It cannot be understated how valuable it is to be able to exploit Vaporeon and Sandaconda the way it does. Leaf Storm in particular is extremely scary and pretty free to click more often than not barring Copper and Muk, both of which can be worn down or nailed with the appropriate coverage move. Another perk is being able to discourage Bruxish from being able to click its stabs, being able to reliably revenge kill the choiced variants with sucker punch is also quite nice. Not to say it’s an ironclad answer against the fish but it’s still nice to have.
Mid Tier -> High Tier
This one is pretty straightforward, it shreds. Tera Dragon Dpulse blitzes through the entire barring Chansey which is still broken down by playing aggressively with hazards up or alternatively by taking the easy way out and just two shotting it with tera fighting aura sphere. Super scary breaker, never going to have a fun time answering it if you give it an ounce of footing, not much more needs to be said.
Low Tier -> High TierI think Cacturne is a genuinely great pick right now. It cannot be understated how valuable it is to be able to exploit Vaporeon and Sandaconda the way it does. Leaf Storm in particular is extremely scary and pretty free to click more often than not barring Copper and Muk, both of which can be worn down or nailed with the appropriate coverage move. Another perk is being able to discourage Bruxish from being able to click its stabs, being able to reliably revenge kill the choiced variants with sucker punch is also quite nice. Not to say it’s an ironclad answer against the fish but it’s still nice to have.
Mid Tier -> High TierThis one is pretty straightforward, it shreds. Tera Dragon Dpulse blitzes through the entire barring Chansey which is still broken down by playing aggressively with hazards up or alternatively by taking the easy way out and just two shotting it with tera fighting aura sphere. Super scary breaker, never going to have a fun time answering it if you give it an ounce of footing, not much more needs to be said.
oh ive been WAITING for this one. im here to show support in my girl vivillon!!
mid-> high
this thing is a monster when it gets going. its relatively easy to get off a sleep with this thing once it hits the field, especially with its good speed tier. sure, it needs uturn/volt or a bit of careful switching to hit the field, but once it does something is getting slept, since most grass types get destroyed by STAB hurricane. and with substitute, getting off at least one QD is very trivial. hell you can even lead with it, considering it uses leads like masquerain as set-up fodder. it's def not top tier, as it does have its issues with elektross and oricorio, but it's overall an underrated gem that i've had a ton of fun climbing with.
also this is my first ever forum post so um dont roast me too hard hehe
this thing is a monster when it gets going. its relatively easy to get off a sleep with this thing once it hits the field, especially with its good speed tier. sure, it needs uturn/volt or a bit of careful switching to hit the field, but once it does something is getting slept, since most grass types get destroyed by STAB hurricane. and with substitute, getting off at least one QD is very trivial. hell you can even lead with it, considering it uses leads like masquerain as set-up fodder. it's def not top tier, as it does have its issues with elektross and oricorio, but it's overall an underrated gem that i've had a ton of fun climbing with.
also this is my first ever forum post so um dont roast me too hard hehe
Big VR Update!
here is the voting slate, with Luck O' the Irish and Danny joining us for this vote, as both Meri Berry and Ren-Chon abstain from voting due to prior obligations.
NU has adopted letter rankings for their VR as the tier has established a clear hierarchy. Because there weren't any precise rankings prior to this, it would be quite tedious to summarize every single ranking, but if you have any questions about a Pokemon's ranking, feel free to ask here, on PS!, or in the Discord server and I'd be happy to answer. I will go over the new drops and also some very surprising drops and rises, though.
New!
-> A- Abomasnow is a fantastic bundle of offense and utility, providing Snow and Aurora Veil for teammates like Beartic and Frosmoth while also boasting high BP STAB moves like Blizzard, Leaf Storm, and Wood Hammer, and great coverage moves like Earth Power, Earthquake, and Low Kick.
-> B+ Bombirdier is an interesting case where it's incredibly diverse in what it can do, but still hasn't seem to found a specific role or niche it can fulfill. It has an amazing movepool and typing, but very average stats that make it struggle to be either amazing offensively or amazing defensively at times. As the metagame develops, though, Bombirdier has incredible potential due to its access to Knock Off and and other amazing utility moves backed by a solid Speed stat and defensive typing.
-> B Dachsbun was the Fairy-type that everyone was waiting for, and now that its finally here, its admittedly a bit of a disappointment. While the defensive Fairy-typing is amazing, and Body Press is naturally great coverage, Dachsbun's weakness to entry hazards and reliance on Wish for recovery makes it incredibly passive in a metagame filled with huge threats.
Notable Drops & Rises!
High Tier down to B Braviary is simply a utility Pokemon that is forced to live with a very offensive moveset; Brave Bird and Close Combat are just very hard moves to click for something that's supposed to stick around and Defog and Roost.
Low Tier up to A- Cacturne is an amazing anti-meta Pokemon, completely destroying Sandaconda, Vaporeon, and Bruxish, and even beating unexpected Pokemon like Passimian with a nuclear Leaf Storm or Swords Dancing on Umbreon to beat it 1v1. Setting up Spikes is icing on the cake for Cacturne's amazing offensive prowess and surprisingly great defensive profile for the metagame.
High tier up to S- Eelektross has cemented itself as a top tier Pokemon, arguably worthy of being up with Passimian and Sandaconda. Eelektross is one of the only Pokemon in the tier that can safely pressure Sandaconda, and with its Assault Vest sets, it becomes an amazing pivot to enable many of NU's most devastating breakers. Eelektross also has a brutal Coil set that can even beat opposing setup with Dragon Tail and keep itself healthy with Drain Punch, which can get very deadly very fast given Eelektross has no weaknesses.
Low tier up to A Rotom, similarly to Eelektross, can actually switch into Sandaconda's combination of Earthquake and Glare, and threaten it offensively too. Rotom's premier Speed and combination of Volt Switch and Trick make it an amazing Choice Scarf user, but it also has a great defensive typing and movepool, letting it be a great utility mon despite its frail facade.
Again, if you have any questions about any tier placements, feel free to ask me or Rabia (especially Rabia) in the thread here, on Discord, or on PS!. Thank you everyone for your great posts and contributions so far
here is the voting slate, with Luck O' the Irish and Danny joining us for this vote, as both Meri Berry and Ren-Chon abstain from voting due to prior obligations.
NU has adopted letter rankings for their VR as the tier has established a clear hierarchy. Because there weren't any precise rankings prior to this, it would be quite tedious to summarize every single ranking, but if you have any questions about a Pokemon's ranking, feel free to ask here, on PS!, or in the Discord server and I'd be happy to answer. I will go over the new drops and also some very surprising drops and rises, though.
New!
-> A- Abomasnow is a fantastic bundle of offense and utility, providing Snow and Aurora Veil for teammates like Beartic and Frosmoth while also boasting high BP STAB moves like Blizzard, Leaf Storm, and Wood Hammer, and great coverage moves like Earth Power, Earthquake, and Low Kick. -> B+ Bombirdier is an interesting case where it's incredibly diverse in what it can do, but still hasn't seem to found a specific role or niche it can fulfill. It has an amazing movepool and typing, but very average stats that make it struggle to be either amazing offensively or amazing defensively at times. As the metagame develops, though, Bombirdier has incredible potential due to its access to Knock Off and and other amazing utility moves backed by a solid Speed stat and defensive typing. -> B Dachsbun was the Fairy-type that everyone was waiting for, and now that its finally here, its admittedly a bit of a disappointment. While the defensive Fairy-typing is amazing, and Body Press is naturally great coverage, Dachsbun's weakness to entry hazards and reliance on Wish for recovery makes it incredibly passive in a metagame filled with huge threats.Notable Drops & Rises!
High Tier down to B Braviary is simply a utility Pokemon that is forced to live with a very offensive moveset; Brave Bird and Close Combat are just very hard moves to click for something that's supposed to stick around and Defog and Roost. Low Tier up to A- Cacturne is an amazing anti-meta Pokemon, completely destroying Sandaconda, Vaporeon, and Bruxish, and even beating unexpected Pokemon like Passimian with a nuclear Leaf Storm or Swords Dancing on Umbreon to beat it 1v1. Setting up Spikes is icing on the cake for Cacturne's amazing offensive prowess and surprisingly great defensive profile for the metagame. High tier up to S- Eelektross has cemented itself as a top tier Pokemon, arguably worthy of being up with Passimian and Sandaconda. Eelektross is one of the only Pokemon in the tier that can safely pressure Sandaconda, and with its Assault Vest sets, it becomes an amazing pivot to enable many of NU's most devastating breakers. Eelektross also has a brutal Coil set that can even beat opposing setup with Dragon Tail and keep itself healthy with Drain Punch, which can get very deadly very fast given Eelektross has no weaknesses. Low tier up to A Rotom, similarly to Eelektross, can actually switch into Sandaconda's combination of Earthquake and Glare, and threaten it offensively too. Rotom's premier Speed and combination of Volt Switch and Trick make it an amazing Choice Scarf user, but it also has a great defensive typing and movepool, letting it be a great utility mon despite its frail facade.Again, if you have any questions about any tier placements, feel free to ask me or Rabia (especially Rabia) in the thread here, on Discord, or on PS!. Thank you everyone for your great posts and contributions so far
camerupt is 100% meant to be ranked LOL i think we just had an oversight when updating the vrYay new VR! First off, thanks to the VR council for getting it out. With that out of the way, there's one mon that I'm surprised isn't even on the VR (though I understand, there are a surprising amount of viable mons in current NU).
UR -> B/B+
While having direct Ground-type competition with arguably the best mon in the tier, Sandaconda, there are a couple of important things that Camerupt does that the snake cannot replicate. Most notably, Camerupt is a much better check to the many good Electric-types in the tier. Being an Electric-type with Levitate right now is a great niche because it means that they can switch into Sandaconda's trademark combination of Earthquake and Glare, meaning that the most standard snake set cannot touch them. In addition, these same Electric-types have the ability to take advantage of Sandaconda by turning it into setup fodder or simply smacking the snake with their secondary STABs or utility moves. Enter Camerupt. While you still don't appreciate being given a Scarf by Rotom for example, you have the ability to sit on the electric types in many cases. Camerupt safely blocks Volt Switch consistently because it doesn't fear the other moves the Electric-types can click. With this consistent check, you gain turns to force progress with Camerupt's easily spammable STAB Lava Plume, which also discourages many of the mons that threaten Camerupt, as they largely fear getting burned. What few mons can switch into Lava Plume either don't appreciate a burn or drop to Camerupt's secondary Ground STAB. After you put its STABs on a set, you have a great movepool to dig into to flesh out the last 2 slots. Between Will-o-Wisp to spread burns, Stealth Rock to lay hazards, Protect to scout and make more of Leftovers, Tera Blast to flip matchups with Tera Grass, Yawn to pseudo-phase, even Rock coverage to punish Quiver Dance mons, you have a plethora of options to fit Camerupt's set to your team's needs. Now obviously, Camerupt is far from a perfect mon, and it is much, much more difficult to build with and often less consistent than Sandaconda, but their roles are significantly different and Camerupt is effective and valuable in its niche. Definitely worth ranking.
edit: yep we had voted it to B already
Me: writes whole post justifying ranking Camerupt
Also me: triple checks the VR thread convinced that I must have missed it but doesn't triple check voting slate sadge
This first letter-ranked vr is a very good step towards an accurate reflection of the meta although i think having an S- rank isn't needed atm.
-> A+
While vap is a top 10 mon idt it deserves a ranking above the A's. Plenty of good mons force it out or beat it 1v1. It still sits on a lot of mons but not as it did last gen. Physical attackers like bruxish or medi just run through it and there are a lot of special attackers that give it trouble like the electrics, aboma even frosmoth can stall out its wishes with giga drain. I often find myself picking umbreon over it since it can still stomach physdef hits if spdef invested (and vice versa) while still offering the same wish support. Luck O' the Irish seems to agree with me!
-> S
I already wrote about eel in the np thread and at this point just put it with pass and sanda imo
-> A+While vap is a top 10 mon idt it deserves a ranking above the A's. Plenty of good mons force it out or beat it 1v1. It still sits on a lot of mons but not as it did last gen. Physical attackers like bruxish or medi just run through it and there are a lot of special attackers that give it trouble like the electrics, aboma even frosmoth can stall out its wishes with giga drain. I often find myself picking umbreon over it since it can still stomach physdef hits if spdef invested (and vice versa) while still offering the same wish support. Luck O' the Irish seems to agree with me!
-> SI already wrote about eel in the np thread and at this point just put it with pass and sanda imo
I already wrote about eel in the np thread and at this point just put it with pass and sanda imo
Hard agree, Eelektross has no checks and either enables the half-dozen borderline broken breakers in the tier with its Assault Vest pivot set or becomes a broken sweeper itself with its Coil set. Having a positive MU against Sandaconda is also an amazing trait to have.
I already wrote about eel in the np thread and at this point just put it with pass and sanda imo
I'm 100% backing this. Imo, Eelektross is the best Pokemon in the tier right now. While Passimian and Sandaconda are the best in their given roles, that's just it. Their given roles. Outside of their primary roles (Scarf user for Passimian and PhysDef tank + SR user for Conda) they're only fine in their other roles (BU Pass and Coil Conda) Eelektross on the other hand is the best pivot in the whole tier with Assault Vest, and one of the deadliest endgame sweepers with its Coil set. With AV, Eel becomes a blanket check to numerous special attackers in the tier and generally is difficult to take advantage of between Volt Switch (which is slow and helps frail mons get in freely) and Dragon Tail. With Tera Steel, it resists Flying and Ice while Levitate keeps it immune to Ground, meaning it will handle most QD mons reliably and even has Dragon Tail as a fallback in case circumstances prevent it from fully beating them in a pinch. On the subject of Dragon Tail and Volt Switch, this move combo is incredibly deadly with Spikes support when considering that Drifblim, the best Defogger in the tier, isn't exactly willing to immediately come in due to a fear of being Volt Switched on upon entry. The other set is Coil, which is a deadly sweeper that can quickly get out of hand. Electric + Fighting is actually really good coverage and Dragon Tail means that even Tera Ghost Copperajah isn't capable of putting a stop to it thanks to Eel's higher Speed tier enabling it to Dragon Tail before Copper can Whirlwind. Only lame part is being dumpstered by Drifblim as an Electric sweeper, but Coil Eel teams should have ways to pressure it earlier. Eel is easily a top mon rn and has a valid case to be THE top mon currently.
Yea eel at this point is borderline banworthy to me and I 100% back the S rank nominations for it. Coil sets lack meaningful counterplay beyond "hit it very hard before it boosts too much :D" and Assault Vest is just super consistent in its role of bulky pivot/disrupter/coverage demon. It's really easy to slap on any balance build as a safety net really, and naturally both sets abuse the high Sandaconda usage SUPER well.
-> A+
It's for that same reason I think Rotom should rise. Between Choice Scarf, Sub + NP, and utility sets, I've found it to be a really consistent and threatening option. Choice Scarf lets you deviate a bit from the Passimian structures, whereas Sub + NP just goes crazy against a lot of common mons, i.e. eel, Sandaconda, Choice-locked Passimian, and more. It's really potent and needs more use imo.
-> A+It's for that same reason I think Rotom should rise. Between Choice Scarf, Sub + NP, and utility sets, I've found it to be a really consistent and threatening option. Choice Scarf lets you deviate a bit from the Passimian structures, whereas Sub + NP just goes crazy against a lot of common mons, i.e. eel, Sandaconda, Choice-locked Passimian, and more. It's really potent and needs more use imo.
I find these developments to be very welcoming. Back when Pom-Pom left the tier, I was a bit worried about the eel's viability since it was one of the bird's best defensive checks. So Eelektross becoming a top-5 pokemon in the tier is pretty cool.
With the new shifts there has been some very exciting and very broken pokemon that have dropped into NU, so I will give my personal thoughts of where they fit into the viability rankings:
-->S-
Barraskewda has definitely been the one that has caused the most stir since joining the tier, it possesses an incredible speed tier which allows it to outspeed the entire tier barring Jolteon and relevant scarfers even when running an Adamant nature which gives it incredibly high levels of attacking power in combination with Choice Band/Life Orb and it's naturally high attack stat. The main problem Barraskewda presents NU with is all of the aforementioned alongside it's incredible coverage options. Liquidation is the standard STAB physical water move for Barraskewda, but Close Combat is very difficult to switch into especially in combination with tera fighting where most neutral targets are at worst 2HKO'd. Psychic Fangs allows it break past Qwilfish, Toxicroak and Muk after a bit of chip, and can then choose between Poison Jab/Crunch depending on what it wants to hit, Poison Jab is good for newcomer Florges and Dachsbun as well as the many tera fairy pokemon in the tier, and Crunch can be used for damage against Drifblim and Bruxish. Aqua Jet is also an option to kill off weakened scarfers. This ranking might be too high but I honestly think Barraskewda isn't that hard to fit on a team, you can slap it on a BO and call it a day. This might be banned soon anyway so maybe it doesn't get ranked at all, but I still think it's clearly very strong and deserves to be near the top of the VR.
--> B+
Fortunately, Floatzel seems a lot more manageable than Barraskewda. It does have stronger physical water STAB in Wave Crash, but it's coverage moves in comparison are very limited. Ice Spinner can be used to hit Lurantis and Drifblim and Crunch can form as a decent coverage move, but it has very little outside of these. Unlike with Barraskewda, Aqua Jet seems more mandatory, as an Adamant Floatzel gets outpaced by a few pokemon other than Jolteon, such as Lycanroc and Scyther. Vaporeon is a very hard stop to Floatzel and Toxicroak can also come in on an incoming water move and proceed to setup due to Floatzel's reliance on Choice Band for damage. For these reasons, it's difficult to consider putting this over pokemon such as Bruxish and Barraskewda. It's breaking power is still ridiculously high and under rain is a serious threat, however the lack of coverage makes it seem much more balanced for NU's power level. Bulk Up could also be a thing on Floatzel that is not really experimented with yet because most Floatzel I've seen have been under a manual rain team. This pokemon is still solid and seems like a nice addition to the tier.
--> S-
Finally, a good fairy type has joined NU, but maybe we bit more than we could chew. First of all, the wishpassing of Florges is infinitely better than Dachsbun as it's HP stat actually exists. It can fulfil the role of strong special wall with an offensive presence and good defensive typing, which is made even better with the departure of Copperajah (pls come back soon). I particularly like the core it forms with Sandaconda and it is a nice alternative to using Vaporeon for wishpassing. However, what may push this pokemon over the edge is the Calm Mind set. Muk would ordinarily be able to stop Florges, but with tera poison it resists all of Muk's common attacks and can choose to go to +6 if Muk does not have Haze, and even then Florges can still outdamage Muk with Psychic and kill it off. This in combination with the fact that it gets recovery with Synthesis and strong stab in Moonblast, may prove it to be too much for NU but I guess time will tell.
--> B(??)
For Charizard, I have not really got much of an opinion as I have yet to see one on the ladder and haven't used it myself. The Belly Drum set with Flame Charge seems interesting and it possesses a pretty good speed tier which could even make use of a Choice Specs set, but it's massive Stealth Rock weakness means that it may be forced to use HDB which limits a lot of it's potential power and the competition from Oricorio-B who has Quiver Dance, Defog and Roost will probably make it the better choice. It also doesn't appreciate the RU pokemon that dropped with it, as both waters can outspeed and kill it even when Adamant. On paper though it doesn't seem awful and it being in the same rank as Houndoom seems fair.
And finally, I would like to make a few nominations for rises:
A+ --> S-
This mon has really benefited from the drops. It forms a great partner with Barraskewda who can force in Vaporeon, who is becoming more popular to stop the waters, and allow Toxicroak to set up for free. It can also switch in to water attacks from Barraskewda itself and also Floatzel, the fact it is also immune to their priority moves is huge as at +2 it can OHKO both with Sucker Punch without fear of being hit by their priority moves. It being able to immediately threaten Florges is also a good trait to have and Sandaconda cannot even properly check it if not at full HP as Close Combat deals a massive chunk. This may be a bit premature but I do think a rise is possible.
B- --> B/B+
Why is this so low? This is a defogger who can threaten out Sandaconda and Vaporeon, and is another pokemon that in my opinion has benefited from the drops. It doesn't have to use tera fire anymore as Copperajah and Frosmoth are no longer in the tier. Tera water/electric are good tera types it can use. Water is useful to resist Ice Spinner; completely blanking Floatzel while also beating Oricorio-B after a leaf storm boost. Electric can be used to hit all of the relevant flying types in the tier such as both Oricorios, Drifblim and Bombirdier. Synthesis also gives it reliable recovery and longevity. It definitely has flaws such as the awful speed tier, weakness to U-turn and lacking initial power, but it is absolutely more useful than the pokemon in B- and should definitely be higher imo.
Barraskewda has definitely been the one that has caused the most stir since joining the tier, it possesses an incredible speed tier which allows it to outspeed the entire tier barring Jolteon and relevant scarfers even when running an Adamant nature which gives it incredibly high levels of attacking power in combination with Choice Band/Life Orb and it's naturally high attack stat. The main problem Barraskewda presents NU with is all of the aforementioned alongside it's incredible coverage options. Liquidation is the standard STAB physical water move for Barraskewda, but Close Combat is very difficult to switch into especially in combination with tera fighting where most neutral targets are at worst 2HKO'd. Psychic Fangs allows it break past Qwilfish, Toxicroak and Muk after a bit of chip, and can then choose between Poison Jab/Crunch depending on what it wants to hit, Poison Jab is good for newcomer Florges and Dachsbun as well as the many tera fairy pokemon in the tier, and Crunch can be used for damage against Drifblim and Bruxish. Aqua Jet is also an option to kill off weakened scarfers. This ranking might be too high but I honestly think Barraskewda isn't that hard to fit on a team, you can slap it on a BO and call it a day. This might be banned soon anyway so maybe it doesn't get ranked at all, but I still think it's clearly very strong and deserves to be near the top of the VR.
Fortunately, Floatzel seems a lot more manageable than Barraskewda. It does have stronger physical water STAB in Wave Crash, but it's coverage moves in comparison are very limited. Ice Spinner can be used to hit Lurantis and Drifblim and Crunch can form as a decent coverage move, but it has very little outside of these. Unlike with Barraskewda, Aqua Jet seems more mandatory, as an Adamant Floatzel gets outpaced by a few pokemon other than Jolteon, such as Lycanroc and Scyther. Vaporeon is a very hard stop to Floatzel and Toxicroak can also come in on an incoming water move and proceed to setup due to Floatzel's reliance on Choice Band for damage. For these reasons, it's difficult to consider putting this over pokemon such as Bruxish and Barraskewda. It's breaking power is still ridiculously high and under rain is a serious threat, however the lack of coverage makes it seem much more balanced for NU's power level. Bulk Up could also be a thing on Floatzel that is not really experimented with yet because most Floatzel I've seen have been under a manual rain team. This pokemon is still solid and seems like a nice addition to the tier.
Finally, a good fairy type has joined NU, but maybe we bit more than we could chew. First of all, the wishpassing of Florges is infinitely better than Dachsbun as it's HP stat actually exists. It can fulfil the role of strong special wall with an offensive presence and good defensive typing, which is made even better with the departure of Copperajah (pls come back soon). I particularly like the core it forms with Sandaconda and it is a nice alternative to using Vaporeon for wishpassing. However, what may push this pokemon over the edge is the Calm Mind set. Muk would ordinarily be able to stop Florges, but with tera poison it resists all of Muk's common attacks and can choose to go to +6 if Muk does not have Haze, and even then Florges can still outdamage Muk with Psychic and kill it off. This in combination with the fact that it gets recovery with Synthesis and strong stab in Moonblast, may prove it to be too much for NU but I guess time will tell.
For Charizard, I have not really got much of an opinion as I have yet to see one on the ladder and haven't used it myself. The Belly Drum set with Flame Charge seems interesting and it possesses a pretty good speed tier which could even make use of a Choice Specs set, but it's massive Stealth Rock weakness means that it may be forced to use HDB which limits a lot of it's potential power and the competition from Oricorio-B who has Quiver Dance, Defog and Roost will probably make it the better choice. It also doesn't appreciate the RU pokemon that dropped with it, as both waters can outspeed and kill it even when Adamant. On paper though it doesn't seem awful and it being in the same rank as Houndoom seems fair.
And finally, I would like to make a few nominations for rises:
This mon has really benefited from the drops. It forms a great partner with Barraskewda who can force in Vaporeon, who is becoming more popular to stop the waters, and allow Toxicroak to set up for free. It can also switch in to water attacks from Barraskewda itself and also Floatzel, the fact it is also immune to their priority moves is huge as at +2 it can OHKO both with Sucker Punch without fear of being hit by their priority moves. It being able to immediately threaten Florges is also a good trait to have and Sandaconda cannot even properly check it if not at full HP as Close Combat deals a massive chunk. This may be a bit premature but I do think a rise is possible.
Why is this so low? This is a defogger who can threaten out Sandaconda and Vaporeon, and is another pokemon that in my opinion has benefited from the drops. It doesn't have to use tera fire anymore as Copperajah and Frosmoth are no longer in the tier. Tera water/electric are good tera types it can use. Water is useful to resist Ice Spinner; completely blanking Floatzel while also beating Oricorio-B after a leaf storm boost. Electric can be used to hit all of the relevant flying types in the tier such as both Oricorios, Drifblim and Bombirdier. Synthesis also gives it reliable recovery and longevity. It definitely has flaws such as the awful speed tier, weakness to U-turn and lacking initial power, but it is absolutely more useful than the pokemon in B- and should definitely be higher imo.
I'd like to nominate 
A--> A+
Looking at the survey anticipations, I'm glad Zoroark (or Illusion in general) is being considered as a potential ban-worthy menace. While we are here to discuss about the borderline-broken threats of the tier (with very tight counterplay), this dark type is playing in a parallel world by disguising as a broken physical mon to then pull out the NP or disguising as a broken special mon to then pull out the SD.
The level of trolling caused by this mon is becoming increasingly ludicrous, which is weird to say considering how bad it was last gen.
To be honest, Tera helped a lot (offensively and defensively).
Last but not least, as icing on the cake: a team with its partner in crime Hisui-Zorua
proved to be effective, so the potential of Illusion, overall, might be quite underestimated in general.
Right now it is in the same rank as
Mabosstiff: while I still think that the dog is really strong and the defense drops caused by Crunch can really put you in a tough position, I believe that right now the main offensive dark-type is Zoroark, especially taking into account its better flexibility: thus that's why a propose a mild increase in the ranking.
A--> A+Looking at the survey anticipations, I'm glad Zoroark (or Illusion in general) is being considered as a potential ban-worthy menace. While we are here to discuss about the borderline-broken threats of the tier (with very tight counterplay), this dark type is playing in a parallel world by disguising as a broken physical mon to then pull out the NP or disguising as a broken special mon to then pull out the SD.
The level of trolling caused by this mon is becoming increasingly ludicrous, which is weird to say considering how bad it was last gen.
To be honest, Tera helped a lot (offensively and defensively).
Last but not least, as icing on the cake: a team with its partner in crime Hisui-Zorua
proved to be effective, so the potential of Illusion, overall, might be quite underestimated in general.Right now it is in the same rank as
Mabosstiff: while I still think that the dog is really strong and the defense drops caused by Crunch can really put you in a tough position, I believe that right now the main offensive dark-type is Zoroark, especially taking into account its better flexibility: thus that's why a propose a mild increase in the ranking.
Unranked --> C/B- this mons typing is nuts it hard walls cm boomburst shadow ball Dudunsparce sits on hex Drifblim and Chansey and is great into most of the choiced mons in the tier. comes in for free and spreading burn and knock it's utility is fantastic and it has so many sets it can use from Utility shedinja like pivot, to offensive trick, to nasty plot sets. Zorua H is definitely not an auto include but it definitely has a niche. Plz stop sleeping on my boy he's the goat -_- https://pokepast.es/d03a70ab493ca870 here are some sets if you’re interested also this is hilarious+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Zorua-Hisui Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vaporeon: 390-460 (84 - 99.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Possible damage amounts: (390, 394, 399, 403, 409, 413, 417, 422, 426, 430, 437, 441, 445, 450, 454, 460)
Last edited:
hi I am doing the NU VR update RIGHT NOW! will add in reasonings later. voting sheet here
-> B- (Charizard lost legit every useful move it had. No more Defog, Toxic, or Roost leave it as a niche Belly Drum sweeper that hasn't really caught on yet.)
-> B (Limited to manual rain and may not even be good enough for a team slot. There could be some appeal to Bulk Up + Water Veil with Tera Electric outside of rain, but we've yet to see that.)
-> B (I think we just forgot to add it to the OP lol)
-> UR (no)
-> A+ (Very potent wallbreaker with no defensive answers other than Tera Dark Vaporeon and Toxicroak. The Speed tier can be a bit troll at times, but NU's plethora of pivots that synergize with it well make up for that. Choice Scarf sets rising as of late further complicate counterplay given Passimian is often tasked with trying to revenge kill Bruxish, and it gets swiftly OHKOed by Psychic Fangs.)
-> A+ (Great Defogger even if it's viewed as maybe a little worse as of this update than it was a few weeks ago. It's pretty trivial to switch repeatedly into Sandaconda to remove Stealth Rock, especially with Glare being dropped more often in favor of Stone Edge.)
-> A+ (NU's best---really only---Spiker. Poison Point is a wonderful punishing tool for Scyther and Passimian, and Qwilfish is able to effectively use several utility options to bolster its team's success. It's even a Toxic Spikes absorber :D!)
-> A+ (Sandaconda is the meta, so anything that can sit on it gains value. I also appreciate Rotom as a Choice Scarf user that outruns Passimian; we don't really have a ton of viable options beyond it, so Rotom adding to the tier's diversity is really useful. Nasty Plot sets are dangerous as hell.)
-> A+ (Some people were surprised by this one, perhaps due to the degree Scyther rose. I think largely it's a result of people experimenting more with other fast pivots, and Scyther conveniently is a pretty good Defogger too. It maintains momentum well with Swords Dance-boosted U-turn, and the dedicated sweeper sets with Trailblaze really don't need an opposing team weakened too much before they try to win.)
-> A+ (I think this Pokemon is overrated, but we can't deny its prowess as a wallbreaker. Any foe that walls it risks being a momentum sink to U-turn or getting crippled by Trick.)
-> A (Chansey is kind of Copperajah's successor in terms of "specially bulky Stealth Rock setter". Naturally, it's a lot different than the elephant, but it blanket checks many special attackers including Zoroark, Clawitzer, Jolteon, Magneton, and more. As mentioned above, it can be a bit of a momentum drain at times, but it's still quite good at sitting around and not dying.)
-> A (I do not know why Jolteon rose. I assume people are just taking advantage of its positive Sandaconda matchup given that's the only real Ground-type that sees use. It's also another fast pivot. Seems fine enough.)
-> A (This guy is an annoying cunt. Tera Fairy Play Rough with Bulk Up is a great defensive wincon, and I think I prefer Ursaring to Dudunsparce at this point because its overall bulk is just WAAAAAAY higher.)
-> A- (I'm so happy y'all put me onto this Pokemon. Its coverage is ASS! But, it doesn't actually need to use much beyond Leaf Storm anyway, and it really reliably removes Sandaconda's hazards. My only gripe so far when using Lurantis has been the Muk matchup: thankfully, Muk's switches are pretty obvious, but it can be super hard to deny Muk from setting Toxic Spikes back up immediately after you remove them...)
-> A- (Really dangerous wallbreaker, Analytic Volt Switch is just very free. Anything that checks you just gets pivoted on until it's 2HKOed by your STAB moves.)
-> A- (Realistically this Pokemon isn't too good, but it's our only FE Steel-type and a good anti-offense tool.)
-> B+ (It's like Goodra lite in a way. It has a similar defensive profile with a lot of that stallbreaking prowess that Substitute + Acid Spray Goodra possessed. Good Eelektross answer, too.
-> B+ (Hattrem I think has risen partly because people are using non-Heavy-Duty Boots Scyther more, so having an option to deny Stealth Rock---an option that does it very well at that---is super useful. I also value Tera Fairy Calm Mind sets quite a bit; most walls are just setup fodder.)
-> A (zS said it well in the NU Discord. Making good teams with Dudunsparce can be hard because it offers so little outside of "bulky sweeper." With Ursaring, you at least have a bit of overall defensive utility given its great bulk; Dudunsparce lacks that.)
-> A- (I do not know why Medicham dropped. It is probably due to overall competition faced from Passimian + Toxicroak, which results in finding teams where Medicham specifically is optimal being a tough task.)
-> A- (Defog Oricorio is just not very compelling, and Quiver Dance seems to win less nowadays? Don't take this as me saying the latter set is falling off, though; I think the tier has just adapted enough to where we can manage it better. Oftentimes, you have to dedicate your Tera to Oricorio for it to truly pop off, and that can be punished really hard if you do so too early.)
-> B+ (The metagame has gotten a lot faster lately, and Clawitzer suffers as a result because finding safe wallbreaking chances is harder. I mentioned Bruxish struggles the same way but benefits from pivot support, so why is Clawitzer not getting that same treatment? Well, base Speed matters. Aqua Jet matters. The pool of Pokemon that can consistently come in and safely revenge kill Bruxish is a good bit smaller than that of Clawitzer.)
-> B+ (Farigiraf is just viewed as a one-trick pony at this point on hyper offense teams. It's INSANELY potent when it gets going, but it requires multiple turns to set up and actually pose that threat it's capable of.)
-> B+ (Vaporeon is ever so slightly less common right now, but Pyroar still struggles with the plethora of foes that easily revenge kill it. Additionally, we're seeing more of foes like Choice Scarf Scyther, Chansey, and Appletun that can, in their own ways, limit Pyroar's long-term effectiveness.)
-> B+ (It was always overranked, but I think base Rotom's surge and Rotom-F's weakness to Sandaconda Stone Edge have definitely hurt it.)
-> B (This Pokemon has not seen significant use since the Goodra ban.)
-> B (Vespiquen often requires Tera to not be a liability defensively, and Qwilfish has largely usurped it as a Spiker. Vespiquen retains some appeal for its overall longevity and pivot support, but you'll often be hard pressed to justify it now.
-> B (Cheese Pokemon that's limited by the large amount of revenge killers that it can't OHKO with boosted Quick Attack. Sandaconda also exists and is quite hard to take out!)
-> B- (Just use Bruxish.)
-> B- (Scyther does the whole "why is this offensive Pokemon using Defog???" thing better.)
-> B- (Stall sucks, so Crocalor drops.)
-> B- (God damn it why did Florges have to be broken.)
-> B- (We have plenty of mid-Speed tier wallbreakers that are strong. Honchkrow just lacks any real defined reason for use beyond its combination of strong priority and pivoting.)
-> B- (Pyroar is better.)
-> B- (Don't use this.)
-> B- (Skuntank is exceedingly OK enough, but as a general utility Pokemon you'll get more utility out of Muk, and as a setup sweeper you're better off using Haunter.)
-> C (Lilligant "pick the right Tera type" Challenge [IMPOSSIBLE])
-> C (The other Oricorio is better.)
-> C (Not really a compelling bulky setup sweeper over the other options. Revival Blessing is annoying but not a worldbeater.)
-> C (This Pokemon is ASS! :fire:)
-> UR (lol)
-> UR (lol)
-> UR (lol)
-> UR (lol)
-> UR (lol)
-> UR (There's the slightest amount of appeal to this because it really has just about every good utility move in the game, but it's an LC Pokemon with really dreadful stats, and that ends up being really hard to overcome in battle.)
-> UR (lol)
-> UR (lol)
e: this will stay locked until tomorrow, so gather your thoughts in the meantime
e: this is now unlocked with reasons edited in, go wild
-> B- (Charizard lost legit every useful move it had. No more Defog, Toxic, or Roost leave it as a niche Belly Drum sweeper that hasn't really caught on yet.) -> B (Limited to manual rain and may not even be good enough for a team slot. There could be some appeal to Bulk Up + Water Veil with Tera Electric outside of rain, but we've yet to see that.) -> B (I think we just forgot to add it to the OP lol) -> UR (no) -> A+ (Very potent wallbreaker with no defensive answers other than Tera Dark Vaporeon and Toxicroak. The Speed tier can be a bit troll at times, but NU's plethora of pivots that synergize with it well make up for that. Choice Scarf sets rising as of late further complicate counterplay given Passimian is often tasked with trying to revenge kill Bruxish, and it gets swiftly OHKOed by Psychic Fangs.) -> A+ (Great Defogger even if it's viewed as maybe a little worse as of this update than it was a few weeks ago. It's pretty trivial to switch repeatedly into Sandaconda to remove Stealth Rock, especially with Glare being dropped more often in favor of Stone Edge.) -> A+ (NU's best---really only---Spiker. Poison Point is a wonderful punishing tool for Scyther and Passimian, and Qwilfish is able to effectively use several utility options to bolster its team's success. It's even a Toxic Spikes absorber :D!) -> A+ (Sandaconda is the meta, so anything that can sit on it gains value. I also appreciate Rotom as a Choice Scarf user that outruns Passimian; we don't really have a ton of viable options beyond it, so Rotom adding to the tier's diversity is really useful. Nasty Plot sets are dangerous as hell.) -> A+ (Some people were surprised by this one, perhaps due to the degree Scyther rose. I think largely it's a result of people experimenting more with other fast pivots, and Scyther conveniently is a pretty good Defogger too. It maintains momentum well with Swords Dance-boosted U-turn, and the dedicated sweeper sets with Trailblaze really don't need an opposing team weakened too much before they try to win.) -> A+ (I think this Pokemon is overrated, but we can't deny its prowess as a wallbreaker. Any foe that walls it risks being a momentum sink to U-turn or getting crippled by Trick.) -> A (Chansey is kind of Copperajah's successor in terms of "specially bulky Stealth Rock setter". Naturally, it's a lot different than the elephant, but it blanket checks many special attackers including Zoroark, Clawitzer, Jolteon, Magneton, and more. As mentioned above, it can be a bit of a momentum drain at times, but it's still quite good at sitting around and not dying.) -> A (I do not know why Jolteon rose. I assume people are just taking advantage of its positive Sandaconda matchup given that's the only real Ground-type that sees use. It's also another fast pivot. Seems fine enough.) -> A (This guy is an annoying cunt. Tera Fairy Play Rough with Bulk Up is a great defensive wincon, and I think I prefer Ursaring to Dudunsparce at this point because its overall bulk is just WAAAAAAY higher.) -> A- (I'm so happy y'all put me onto this Pokemon. Its coverage is ASS! But, it doesn't actually need to use much beyond Leaf Storm anyway, and it really reliably removes Sandaconda's hazards. My only gripe so far when using Lurantis has been the Muk matchup: thankfully, Muk's switches are pretty obvious, but it can be super hard to deny Muk from setting Toxic Spikes back up immediately after you remove them...) -> A- (Really dangerous wallbreaker, Analytic Volt Switch is just very free. Anything that checks you just gets pivoted on until it's 2HKOed by your STAB moves.) -> A- (Realistically this Pokemon isn't too good, but it's our only FE Steel-type and a good anti-offense tool.) -> B+ (It's like Goodra lite in a way. It has a similar defensive profile with a lot of that stallbreaking prowess that Substitute + Acid Spray Goodra possessed. Good Eelektross answer, too. -> B+ (Hattrem I think has risen partly because people are using non-Heavy-Duty Boots Scyther more, so having an option to deny Stealth Rock---an option that does it very well at that---is super useful. I also value Tera Fairy Calm Mind sets quite a bit; most walls are just setup fodder.) -> A (zS said it well in the NU Discord. Making good teams with Dudunsparce can be hard because it offers so little outside of "bulky sweeper." With Ursaring, you at least have a bit of overall defensive utility given its great bulk; Dudunsparce lacks that.) -> A- (I do not know why Medicham dropped. It is probably due to overall competition faced from Passimian + Toxicroak, which results in finding teams where Medicham specifically is optimal being a tough task.) -> A- (Defog Oricorio is just not very compelling, and Quiver Dance seems to win less nowadays? Don't take this as me saying the latter set is falling off, though; I think the tier has just adapted enough to where we can manage it better. Oftentimes, you have to dedicate your Tera to Oricorio for it to truly pop off, and that can be punished really hard if you do so too early.) -> B+ (The metagame has gotten a lot faster lately, and Clawitzer suffers as a result because finding safe wallbreaking chances is harder. I mentioned Bruxish struggles the same way but benefits from pivot support, so why is Clawitzer not getting that same treatment? Well, base Speed matters. Aqua Jet matters. The pool of Pokemon that can consistently come in and safely revenge kill Bruxish is a good bit smaller than that of Clawitzer.) -> B+ (Farigiraf is just viewed as a one-trick pony at this point on hyper offense teams. It's INSANELY potent when it gets going, but it requires multiple turns to set up and actually pose that threat it's capable of.) -> B+ (Vaporeon is ever so slightly less common right now, but Pyroar still struggles with the plethora of foes that easily revenge kill it. Additionally, we're seeing more of foes like Choice Scarf Scyther, Chansey, and Appletun that can, in their own ways, limit Pyroar's long-term effectiveness.) -> B+ (It was always overranked, but I think base Rotom's surge and Rotom-F's weakness to Sandaconda Stone Edge have definitely hurt it.) -> B (This Pokemon has not seen significant use since the Goodra ban.) -> B (Vespiquen often requires Tera to not be a liability defensively, and Qwilfish has largely usurped it as a Spiker. Vespiquen retains some appeal for its overall longevity and pivot support, but you'll often be hard pressed to justify it now. -> B (Cheese Pokemon that's limited by the large amount of revenge killers that it can't OHKO with boosted Quick Attack. Sandaconda also exists and is quite hard to take out!) -> B- (Just use Bruxish.) -> B- (Scyther does the whole "why is this offensive Pokemon using Defog???" thing better.) -> B- (Stall sucks, so Crocalor drops.) -> B- (God damn it why did Florges have to be broken.) -> B- (We have plenty of mid-Speed tier wallbreakers that are strong. Honchkrow just lacks any real defined reason for use beyond its combination of strong priority and pivoting.) -> B- (Pyroar is better.) -> B- (Don't use this.) -> B- (Skuntank is exceedingly OK enough, but as a general utility Pokemon you'll get more utility out of Muk, and as a setup sweeper you're better off using Haunter.) -> C (Lilligant "pick the right Tera type" Challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]) -> C (The other Oricorio is better.) -> C (Not really a compelling bulky setup sweeper over the other options. Revival Blessing is annoying but not a worldbeater.) -> C (This Pokemon is ASS! :fire:) -> UR (lol) -> UR (lol) -> UR (lol) -> UR (lol) -> UR (lol) -> UR (There's the slightest amount of appeal to this because it really has just about every good utility move in the game, but it's an LC Pokemon with really dreadful stats, and that ends up being really hard to overcome in battle.) -> UR (lol) -> UR (lol)e: this will stay locked until tomorrow, so gather your thoughts in the meantime
e: this is now unlocked with reasons edited in, go wild
Last edited:
- Status