It's not unhealthy, it's not broken, and it's not even that good. It's being unbanned because it's not banworthy.
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Announcement SV National Dex Suspect 17 - Child of the Moon
- Thread starter omarsgarciav
- Start date
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It's not unhealthy, it's not broken, and it's not even that good. It's being unbanned because it's not banworthy.
can we please talk about relevant pokémon instead of lame ass one trick mons like those 2
Steelium is not real and is very bad, just use dragon z
that doesn’t make dragon z or dark z less good. also just use dragon z
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Scizor-Mega: 153-180 (44.6 - 52.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 112+ Def Scizor-Mega: 107-127 (31.1 - 37%) -- 78.9% chance to 3HKO
Roaring Moon Outrage vs. Weezing-Galar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move
252 Atk Roaring Moon Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 268-316 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 169-201 (32.8 - 39.1%) -- 8.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Clefable: 102-120 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 244-288 (69.5 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
stack hazards and status moon, ggwp
I rlly feel like Moon should be unbanned. I already have reqs and I'm voting unban. It's prone to status, misses out on kos and banded outrages are easy to play around. Dd sets are more overwhelming but they miss out on kos and are extremely prone to status. If u run sub, u lose any 1 valuable move. It looks so broken on paper with yard, tusk and rbolt being top tier mons but it rlly isn't broken in practice. I've tried it myself and it's really good but not game breaking. Not only that, it adds to the metagame. It's a fast knock spammer that forces out ghold and a check to 90% of yard sets (Those 10% of sets run fblast). Also, it's not like Moon's checks are unviable mons. Fairies like Clef and Fini are decent mons while steels like Msciz, Ferro and Melm are good mons. Gweez has also become a decent mon. Overall, I feel like Moon isn't broken and I'm voting unban.
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Not sure if anyone clarified for you but you will need to access this link to place your vote. I see your name listed among the qualified voters so you’re all set for now but voting isn’t available quite yet. Voting will open Feb. 10th - 12th
I don’t think you realize that if you’re using acrobatics, then you need Booster Energy, and booster energy is revealed when rmoon switches in, while Z sets are not revealed while switching in. That’s what I mean when I say that you can play according to the set. Sorry for not being clear.
I’m not discrediting Z sets, I personally believe Dragonium Z sets are pretty good, I’m just saying you can differentiate them easily and play accordingly.
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I said I would make a longer post on why Moon should be unbanned and since I got my reqs here it is.
No it doesn’t kill dozo after “Meaningless chip” in fact Outrage does more.
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 256-303 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 288-340 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Anyway after writing more on a Pokemon than I did on my mid term essay, I’m gonna go watch YouTube and have some ginger ale.
Set #1: Banded Moon
Banded Roaring Moon is incredibly good. It can spread Knock-Off incredibly easily and spam outrage once the opponents dragon resist/Moon check is dead. It also has access to u-turn as a great pivot move. It can do this while being able to slot on good coverage. It has access to move like Fire Fang, Earthquake, and Iron Head. Now in theory I can see how this could be broken. However this ignores what Moon is running in practice. 99.9% of all Moons run Knock-Off, Outrage, U-Turn, Earthquake. This means having a fairy, lando-t or ferro will sufficiently check Moon. This means Moon can wall break while Knocking items, but all momentum is lost when you thud into a resist which are common place. In addition to this three of the most common fast pivots of Mega Lopunny, Tapu Koko, and Dragapult can outspeed and hit it with super effective stab to knock it out. In my opinion this sounds like a balanced set that adds a fast offensive Knocker that is good(sorry weavile and meowscarada) that can be incredibly easily revenged. Now Moon on a sun team can combat some of these flaws by getting the protosynthesis speed boost, but Moon doesn’t mesh well with the play style as Fairy types suddenly hit most of the team for super effective, and dragon types match up incredibly well. In addition to this the speed boost only lasts 4 turns of out speeding mons that revenge kill it at most which is far from oppressive.
Set #2: Scarf Moon
Scarf Moon is far from a popular set. It losses the power of Banded for speed. This can allow it to out speed the previously mentioned revenge killers. However this causes its defensive checks to better into it as it loses much of its wall breaking power. Overall a very balanced set that in my opinion is worse than Banded Moon
Set #3: Booster Energy Moon
This is the standard HO set. It tends to always run Knock Off, and Dragon Dance. Then usually Earthquake and or Acrobatics + some other coverage. While this set is good, it often times is stopped by common physical walls. It also is incredibly susceptible to status. Burn completely nerfs its damage output, para slows it down making it easier to take down with a fast mon, and toxic provides residual damage. In addition Booster Moon as the same problem with speed as Banded moon. They more often than not run booster attack, meaning the previous three fast pivots can out speed and KO. Also an Iron Valient with scarf or booster speed is great for revenge killing it, or can be brought in on the knock off prediction. It should also be mentioned Booster Moon losing Tera makes brute forcing through checks even harder. Overall it’s a good HO mon but its far from broken as it has numerous checks.
Set #4: Z Moon
This is a rather good set, that scarifies the boost of booster for usually being able to nuke a check with a darkium z crunch. It’s good for blowing up checks, but it’s incredibly obvious that it’s a Z set if you don’t see booster energy. And also it’s almost always Z Dark and very rarely is anything else. The predictability and less immediate power makes it far from broken.
Set #5: Defensive Moon
Pls don’t use this it’s not good. Just run T-Tar or Gambit.
All in all Moon gives HO another good mon that’s not crazy broken, while also giving balance and balance offense a good wall breaker that can pivot and knock off items.
Banded Roaring Moon is incredibly good. It can spread Knock-Off incredibly easily and spam outrage once the opponents dragon resist/Moon check is dead. It also has access to u-turn as a great pivot move. It can do this while being able to slot on good coverage. It has access to move like Fire Fang, Earthquake, and Iron Head. Now in theory I can see how this could be broken. However this ignores what Moon is running in practice. 99.9% of all Moons run Knock-Off, Outrage, U-Turn, Earthquake. This means having a fairy, lando-t or ferro will sufficiently check Moon. This means Moon can wall break while Knocking items, but all momentum is lost when you thud into a resist which are common place. In addition to this three of the most common fast pivots of Mega Lopunny, Tapu Koko, and Dragapult can outspeed and hit it with super effective stab to knock it out. In my opinion this sounds like a balanced set that adds a fast offensive Knocker that is good(sorry weavile and meowscarada) that can be incredibly easily revenged. Now Moon on a sun team can combat some of these flaws by getting the protosynthesis speed boost, but Moon doesn’t mesh well with the play style as Fairy types suddenly hit most of the team for super effective, and dragon types match up incredibly well. In addition to this the speed boost only lasts 4 turns of out speeding mons that revenge kill it at most which is far from oppressive.
Set #2: Scarf Moon
Scarf Moon is far from a popular set. It losses the power of Banded for speed. This can allow it to out speed the previously mentioned revenge killers. However this causes its defensive checks to better into it as it loses much of its wall breaking power. Overall a very balanced set that in my opinion is worse than Banded Moon
Set #3: Booster Energy Moon
This is the standard HO set. It tends to always run Knock Off, and Dragon Dance. Then usually Earthquake and or Acrobatics + some other coverage. While this set is good, it often times is stopped by common physical walls. It also is incredibly susceptible to status. Burn completely nerfs its damage output, para slows it down making it easier to take down with a fast mon, and toxic provides residual damage. In addition Booster Moon as the same problem with speed as Banded moon. They more often than not run booster attack, meaning the previous three fast pivots can out speed and KO. Also an Iron Valient with scarf or booster speed is great for revenge killing it, or can be brought in on the knock off prediction. It should also be mentioned Booster Moon losing Tera makes brute forcing through checks even harder. Overall it’s a good HO mon but its far from broken as it has numerous checks.
Set #4: Z Moon
This is a rather good set, that scarifies the boost of booster for usually being able to nuke a check with a darkium z crunch. It’s good for blowing up checks, but it’s incredibly obvious that it’s a Z set if you don’t see booster energy. And also it’s almost always Z Dark and very rarely is anything else. The predictability and less immediate power makes it far from broken.
Set #5: Defensive Moon
Pls don’t use this it’s not good. Just run T-Tar or Gambit.
All in all Moon gives HO another good mon that’s not crazy broken, while also giving balance and balance offense a good wall breaker that can pivot and knock off items.
Lando-T, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Toxipex, Alolamola, Great Tusk, Terapagos, Clefable, Corviknight, Dondozo, and Celesteela
I have played roughly 300 or so games on ladder over the time Moon has been unbanned (I have no life) and I have not once see any other Z than Dark. Steelium Z Moon is not real. It like saying Gambit is broken because it has Fightium Z Low Kick. In theory yes it is a set that can exist, but in practice no one on gods green earth is using this Z.
No it doesn’t kill dozo after “Meaningless chip” in fact Outrage does more.
252+ Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 256-303 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 288-340 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I legitimately can’t find a reason Moon is broken. I had been very adamant about believing it to be the best mon to suspect and only believing it would be broken on Sun. However this is far from the case as adding Moon to a sun team stacks weaknesses. I will be voting to Unban.
Also feel free to disagree, rather you wanna make a follow up post countering my points or just Haha react me.
Also here’s the team I stole off the Nat Dex discord to get reqs. I would credit the person who made it if I knew who made it.
https://pokepast.es/6153bdf0ef711db5
Also feel free to disagree, rather you wanna make a follow up post countering my points or just Haha react me.
Also here’s the team I stole off the Nat Dex discord to get reqs. I would credit the person who made it if I knew who made it.
https://pokepast.es/6153bdf0ef711db5
Anyway after writing more on a Pokemon than I did on my mid term essay, I’m gonna go watch YouTube and have some ginger ale.
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i just think it’s a strange thing to mention generally. moon doesn’t need to keep you guessing what set it is because acro and z sets generally do the same thing so the counter play is similar. z sets are better and a lot more consistent anyways
unban moon tho
Finally gained reqs in honor of the late boppydop!, sometimes I can still hear their larping...
Seriously though, after laddering through some truly suspect teams and plays, I still will be voting Do Not Unban on Roaring Moon. Now, this isn't because I think Roaring Moon is broken. Booster Energy sets have to stay in and go for the sweep, Z-move sets lack the raw power of Protosynthesis without Sun, and Banded sets are prone to blanking into Fairies and aren't the easiest to fit on Sun either.
However, I do believe that Roaring Moon will have an overall negative impact on the tier. In my opinion, the current issues plaguing NDOU are Kingambit and Dragapult. Roaring Moon does not check either of these threats: Kingambit threatens heavy damage or an outright KO on the switch in, with Sucker Punch to easily mop up next turn if Roaring Moon miraculously survived the first, while Dragapult straight up outspeeds and OHKOs with Draco Meteor/Dragon Darts. If anything, Roaring Moon actually enables Kingambit, sharing checks like Zamazenta and Landorus-T, which thus get worn down over the course of the game by one, and allowing the other to clean up lategame (usually Kingambit). While it is true that Roaring Moon does check Mega Charizard Y and Gholdengo, I do not think either of these are the threats that we should be worried about, and Mega Charizard Y is in fact heavily enabled by its previously mentioned partner, Kingambit.
Therefore, I do not believe Roaring Moon will help the tier reach a healthier spot: it is another offensive threat that fits only on Bulky Offense and Hyper Offense teams, partners well with a top-tier threat in Kingambit, and while it does offer defensive utility in offensively checking Gholdengo and Mega Charizard Y, these benefits aren't enough to weigh the downsides.
Seriously though, after laddering through some truly suspect teams and plays, I still will be voting Do Not Unban on Roaring Moon. Now, this isn't because I think Roaring Moon is broken. Booster Energy sets have to stay in and go for the sweep, Z-move sets lack the raw power of Protosynthesis without Sun, and Banded sets are prone to blanking into Fairies and aren't the easiest to fit on Sun either.
However, I do believe that Roaring Moon will have an overall negative impact on the tier. In my opinion, the current issues plaguing NDOU are Kingambit and Dragapult. Roaring Moon does not check either of these threats: Kingambit threatens heavy damage or an outright KO on the switch in, with Sucker Punch to easily mop up next turn if Roaring Moon miraculously survived the first, while Dragapult straight up outspeeds and OHKOs with Draco Meteor/Dragon Darts. If anything, Roaring Moon actually enables Kingambit, sharing checks like Zamazenta and Landorus-T, which thus get worn down over the course of the game by one, and allowing the other to clean up lategame (usually Kingambit). While it is true that Roaring Moon does check Mega Charizard Y and Gholdengo, I do not think either of these are the threats that we should be worried about, and Mega Charizard Y is in fact heavily enabled by its previously mentioned partner, Kingambit.
Therefore, I do not believe Roaring Moon will help the tier reach a healthier spot: it is another offensive threat that fits only on Bulky Offense and Hyper Offense teams, partners well with a top-tier threat in Kingambit, and while it does offer defensive utility in offensively checking Gholdengo and Mega Charizard Y, these benefits aren't enough to weigh the downsides.
The laddering period has ended, with 65 users achieving reqs. Voting is available here! As a reminder, 60% unban supermajority is needed for an unban.
Voting will be open until 2/12/25 at 11pm GMT -5
Voting will be open until 2/12/25 at 11pm GMT -5
Xurkiyee
sealoo
OrdinaryJTA117
Tunderboltz456
xDarkcrafterHDx
geordie boy
FayaWizard
hidin
Flaming Thunder G0d
nongyboii5000
SilverSlime
Mamoo
Comett7778
about15gals
yfleshcatchy
Azuriter
Amaske
COCYTUS
ImperialH
XanderUrBoi
Cheezy
peap
Colonelsquid
SPHZ
lime4de
SBMalus
Cepha
baconeatinassassin
Dahness
Vlarcheops
LusterSN
drasg
TTZZJJ
doso749
YaVR_1
Retereereeeree
Demon Queen
clerica
yogo896
The Hitman
cloudu0
seth
tpfire
Nintenbox#0731
Jeza.p
Toxic Ariados
Sputnik
Forever1507
All About The Hax
Ado
Kayzn
denialkant
Isza
Lacks
Megastar54
Runo
Murphy Lawden
BrisingrDraconis
Kin+ak (✧∇✧)
Anime_King_Josh
Genesis9507
Lightniong
Suzukaaa
Micaiah
Kinzo
sealoo
OrdinaryJTA117
Tunderboltz456
xDarkcrafterHDx
geordie boy
FayaWizard
hidin
Flaming Thunder G0d
nongyboii5000
SilverSlime
Mamoo
Comett7778
about15gals
yfleshcatchy
Azuriter
Amaske
COCYTUS
ImperialH
XanderUrBoi
Cheezy
peap
Colonelsquid
SPHZ
lime4de
SBMalus
Cepha
baconeatinassassin
Dahness
Vlarcheops
LusterSN
drasg
TTZZJJ
doso749
YaVR_1
Retereereeeree
Demon Queen
clerica
yogo896
The Hitman
cloudu0
seth
tpfire
Nintenbox#0731
Jeza.p
Toxic Ariados
Sputnik
Forever1507
All About The Hax
Ado
Kayzn
denialkant
Isza
Lacks
Megastar54
Runo
Murphy Lawden
BrisingrDraconis
Kin+ak (✧∇✧)
Anime_King_Josh
Genesis9507
Lightniong
Suzukaaa
Micaiah
Kinzo
Not all votes are in, but no further votes can alter the result.
Eligible Voters: 65
Votes: 62
Roaring Moon
Unban: 39
Keep Banned: 23
Unban % = 62.90%
60% pro-unban majority is required for an unban, and no further Keep Banned votes can alter the result. Therefore, Roaring Moon is now unbanned in SV National Dex OU. Tagging Marty and dhelmise to implement, thank you!
Thank you to all who have voted, DM me with links to your votes if you qualify for Tiering Contributor off of this!
Votes will be public at this page in ~13 hours: https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/79
Eligible Voters: 65
Votes: 62
Roaring Moon
Unban: 39
Keep Banned: 23
Unban % = 62.90%
60% pro-unban majority is required for an unban, and no further Keep Banned votes can alter the result. Therefore, Roaring Moon is now unbanned in SV National Dex OU. Tagging Marty and dhelmise to implement, thank you!
Thank you to all who have voted, DM me with links to your votes if you qualify for Tiering Contributor off of this!
Votes will be public at this page in ~13 hours: https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/79
- Status