SuperZelf- the Azelf set all the cool kids use

This is horrible. Who cares what U-Turn does to Tyranitar? Grass Knot slaughters it. You already 2HKO Blissey with Stealth Rock + Sandstorm. You are dealing pathetic damage to everything by your calculations, much less than a special Azelf. The only thing that you hurt more with this than with some sort of special Azelf is Houndoom. And who cares about Houndoom?
 
The cool kids can have SuperZelf, I'm going with standard Azelf. Although Azelf does make a surprise attacker, Nasty Plot just makes the special side of it so much better.
 
I just tryed this Azelf on Shoddy and I liked U Turn and Explosion, but the other two physical moves were basically useless. I'm thinking about making a mixed Azelf from what I learned from using this one.
 
Very different.... but IMO his movepool really lets him down plus his special side is so much better so I'm leaving this pure physical choice azelf to the "cool kids" I do like U-Turn though so perhaps I'll use a mixed set
 
Your damage calcs section doesn't really give anything useful. Half of those pokes already get annihilated by normal Azelf, Blissey isn't going to stay around and wait for you to 3HKO when you start unloading CB'd Returns, and things like Salamence and Garchomp take about the same damage from LO'd Psychics so.. what really is the point?

It doesn't kill Azelf's existing counters like Dusknoir or Cresselia and just replaces Blissey and Snorlax with a load of physical counters.

And I really don't like U-turn on Azelf. It's hard enough to get Azelf in to begin with without forcing him to switch out every time you do.
 
Things I don't like:

1. Naming it "SuperZelf" when there's nothing super about it.

2. Completely ignoring its special attack options.

3. The amount of support you need for it.
- TTar for support on a Choice pokemon designed to switch in and out? Yeah, Pray your opponent doesn't have Stealth Rock down too. Hippowdon walls the both of them.
-Dugtrio sucks as a switchin on fast U-turners.
-Weavile also sucks for being U-turned into, and the Focus Sash variant slaughters you if you didn't start with U-Turn.

I mean, you've given us a Adamant CBer that you refuse to call a sweeper. Why should I use this instead of Ambipom which gets STAB on Return and the same speed, or Staraptor which is slower but also gets STAB Return, a second STAB, Close Combat instead of LOL Iron Tail, and has Intimidate so it isn't Pursuit bait?

The only thing Azelf has over any of these is Explosion. So Azelf is cool if you want a nuke, but otherwise I feel this is an underutilization of Azelfs potential.

My recommendation is to put either Grass Knot or Flamethrower over Paypack/ Iron Tail. At least that way you don't get horribly, horribly walled by Hippowdon or Metagross of all things.
 
Just to note, Intimidate has nothing to do with Pursuit. You aren't going to switch into a Pokemon that has Pursuit and then switch right out of it. Pokemon using Pursuit are switching into you, so Intimidate doesn't affect them.
 
What's up with the random names lately. We saw Dragonbomb, and now superzelf?

I'm seconding Mr.E's summary
 
The amount of support you need for it.
- TTar for support on a Choice pokemon designed to switch in and out? Yeah, Pray your opponent doesn't have Stealth Rock down too. Hippowdon walls the both of them.
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There's nothing wrong with T-tar. He and Azelf both take neutral from SR, and if it really bothers you bring a spinner. He's weak to Ground, which Azelf is immune to, and Fighting, which he resists, so few if any people will be using those those moves against him. So what's left? Surfs from Starmie? Starmie takes 92.76% - 109.21% (172 HP Neutral) from U-turn, so if it's coming in to spin or as a counter, all you do is switch to Blissey, if it's still alive, that is. With SR down, and most good teams do carry it, you have a guaranteed OHKO and they just lost their spinner. Milotic? 252 HP/136 Def takes 32.49% - 38.07% from U-turn and 46.95% - 55.33% from Return. Hippo? Takes 27.38% - 32.38% from Return (less that 25% with U-turn), so switch to any decent fast special sweeper with Ice Beam and he's KO'd or at least forced to switch, and with U-turn your switches do not lose a turn.
-Dugtrio sucks as a switchin on fast U-turners.
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Why should he? As long as you aren't turning to him out of anyone carrying Ice Beam or a grass move who can ALSO take a hit from his STABed EQ, he gets trap damage and possibly a KO.
-Weavile also sucks for being U-turned into, and the Focus Sash variant slaughters you if you didn't start with U-Turn.
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I'm not sure I know what you mean here. If you mean Weavile is too fragile to switch in, he isn't, and he counters a lot of stuff that walls this set. If you mean facing opposing Weaviles, coming in on SR or Sandstorm means it is OHKOed and if there's no support, it's just Weavile at 1 HP, all you need is a Pokemon that can take 1 hit and hit back with 1 move.

I mean, you've given us a Adamant CBer that you refuse to call a sweeper. Why should I use this instead of Ambipom which gets STAB on Return and the same speed, or Staraptor which is slower but also gets STAB Return, a second STAB, Close Combat instead of LOL Iron Tail, and has Intimidate so it isn't Pursuit bait?

The only thing Azelf has over any of these is Explosion. So Azelf is cool if you want a nuke, but otherwise I feel this is an underutilization of Azelfs potential.

My recommendation is to put either Grass Knot or Flamethrower over Paypack/ Iron Tail. At least that way you don't get horribly, horribly walled by Hippowdon or Metagross of all things.
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Ambipom is too fragile if he has Life Orb, and does not have the same level of power without it. Staraptor is slower, SR weak, and is walled just as much by anyone who resists his STABs.
Grass Knot is a good choice. I emphasize that if you are worried by a particular Pokemon, Azelf has the specials to cover that.

Your damage calcs section doesn't really give anything useful. Half of those pokes already get annihilated by normal Azelf, Blissey isn't going to stay around and wait for you to 3HKO when you start unloading CB'd Returns, and things like Salamence and Garchomp take about the same damage from LO'd Psychics so.. what really is the point?
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If you want I can add more calcs. If you notice I mentioned you won't stay in against Blissey, and if Azelf stays in on the dragons he's going to be KOed.
And I really don't like U-turn on Azelf. It's hard enough to get Azelf in to begin with without forcing him to switch out every time you do.
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He isn't really as hard as you think to switch in, you can come in on most non boosted walls, depending on the set of course. With Grass Knot you can beat Hippo 65.71% - 77.14% with Grass Knot with ZERO Special Attack EVs. Skarm takes 67.07% - 78.74% from Flamethrower, again zero Special Attack EVs. Pick your poison.

This is horrible. Who cares what U-Turn does to Tyranitar? Grass Knot slaughters it. You already 2HKO Blissey with Stealth Rock + Sandstorm. You are dealing pathetic damage to everything by your calculations, much less than a special Azelf. The only thing that you hurt more with this than with some sort of special Azelf is Houndoom. And who cares about Houndoom?
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By that logic I might as well use Specsmence/Weavile/Cressy/Blissey/Poryz/Infernape, and we can have all teams the same.

That said, a U-Turn from CB Azelf to Weavile brings a lot of things that aren't quite in Vile's KO range down enough for Weavile to deal with them. So they make a pretty nice combination for cleaning up. Assuming of course, that Vile isn't going to get hurt on the switch. This can be done to most special walls out there. They sure as heck are not going to be OHKOing Weavile.

Cresselia, Blissey, Sand Cradily, and maybe Regice come to mind
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This is the idea. Doing appreciable damage to almost everything, then switching to a strong Pokemon who can KO the weakened opponent.
 
mixzelf would be nice..

azelf@LO
{naive}
-explosion
-u-turn
-psychic
-hp fight / t bolt

A good set that uses all of azelfs good physical moves, much better than that.. physical abomination.
 
Weavile IS too fragile to switch in, you really can't argue with that unless you have a perfect sash on it... Dude, this set is just.. not good enough..
 
OK, just for posterity's sake:

Standard Skarmory's Drill Peck on this Azelf: 34 - 40%
Hippowdon's Stone Edge: 36 - 42% (plus 6.25% SS damage for at least one turn)
Standard Blissey Seismic Toss (lol): 34%
Standard Blissey Thunder Wave: Priceless.

Not so easy to bring in even on walls with those kind of damage numbers, even before factoring in 12.5% SR damage and 6.25% SS damage.

EDIT: This is against using Azelf as any kind of hit and run style poke btw, which is what you're restricted to if you want to use U-turn. It's just not feasable to keep switching him in and out.
 
This reminds me of that physical Porygon-Z moveset posted awhile back, sure he can do physical attack but he is SO much better at special attacking. He 2HKOs Blissey whether he's special or physical and making him special gives him a LOT more coverage plus STAB so why bother with physical?
 
"Iron Tail"... A summarization of "This set sucks..."
Really, until Azelf gets Zen Headbutt, Swords Dance, and some other physical toys... He's useless physical.
Really... no.
 
SuperZelf plays a bit like ChainChomp, in that you keep him a secret on the first switch. Switch in on an ineffective attack, healing move, switch, etc... I don't think I need to tell you how to create openings for your Pokemon. Anyway, once he's in, use U-turn to check out your opponent's reaction. Does he have Blissey? Does he stay in? Just note what he does. Next time, you have a choice- if his Azelf counter is weak to Bug like some are, you can just use U-turn again for plenty of damage. Otherwise, select the move you think will hit hardest. Return does the most raw damage outside of SE U-turn, Payback hits ghosts that otherwise wall you, Iron Tail hits Rock types that resist Return, and Explosion kills stuff. I generally find myself U-turning a lot, because it's a surprisingly strong move and is also bascially a free switch. Note: because you are U-turning a lot, and also because you get some easier KOs with residual damage, Stealth Rock support, both laying and spinning, is valuble, although if you have a choice laying is probably more important.
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That's not all it does. If your opponent switches, Payback is automatically doubled. Same goes for, for example, all +priority moves, whether they hit you or not.
That means if they switch to something, it's 100BP. If they switch to Cressy or something else weak, it's 200BP; It's more powerful than a weavile's SE STAB night slash or unboosted pursuit, because of the attack difference. I've always loved Payback, TBH.

My first thought when I entered the topic was "Fuckin' Gimmick", but right now I think I might throw this on my next team to see how well it works.
 
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