Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)

I'm not sure if dash dancing is a viable option in Smash 4. Yes, the game doesn't have tripping. Yes, the game has more movement options, but if we're talking about dash dancing in recent Smash games, then that's Brawl dash dancing. I'm almost certain Smash 4's character dash animations are much shorter, limiting the use of dash dancing.
An example of Brawl-style dash dancing (ignore the tripping. Imagine as if the image was a Smash 4 one.)
Brawl-Tripping.gif

If I said something stupid please correct me if I'm wrong.

(also tfw they nerf pika QAC in pm 3.5)
 
If you want to dash dance (as in get something that looks equivalent to and is fast as dash dancing in other games), you need to combine fox trotting with the dash dance style movement in nightsouls post. Essentially the movement is ->, -> (very breif), <-. The second and third movements are essentially the sort of dash dancing in NightSouls post for the purpose of turning around your character without a skid animation. You can do this fast enough to the point where you don't even see the second -> movement and just seemingly get a dash in the other direction. This thread on smashboards has some interesting information on movement in general.

Some characters fox trots also look very much akin to dash dancing since they're not forced into the skid animation if you try a fox trot in the other direction, Diddy Kong in particular. I find them pretty useful for the sake of doing things like a Dtilt or FSmash out of a run with him.
 
TheMantyke said:
If you want to dash dance (as in get something that looks equivalent to and is fast as dash dancing in other games), you need to combine fox trotting with the dash dance style movement in nightsouls post. Essentially the movement is ->, -> (very breif), <-. The second and third movements are essentially the sort of dash dancing in NightSouls post for the purpose of turning around your character without a skid animation. You can do this fast enough to the point where you don't even see the second -> movement and just seemingly get a dash in the other direction. This thread on smashboards has some interesting information on movement in general.

Some characters fox trots also look very much akin to dash dancing since they're not forced into the skid animation if you try a fox trot in the other direction, Diddy Kong in particular. I find them pretty useful for the sake of doing things like a Dtilt or FSmash out of a run with him.
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This is actually kinda of a cool thing. Though it does seem kind of constricting in what you can do out of it, it at least can give some good options
 
11/17/14
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Pic of the day. "Intensify your activity by dodging a rampaging car".



11/18/14
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Pic of the day. You can play co-op in all the games in Stadium mode!! In Home-run Contest, you can either work together or compete by taking turns launching Sandbag.


(Comment)
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The batting order gets determined randomly to make it fair for the poor person that has to go first. Target Blast and Home-run Contest are games that you play over and over again, but you might find unique ways to play when you only have one shot at victory.
 
I didn't play Sheik just because it was meta to do so, so I'll still play Sheik.

Still, this REALLY SUCKS. KOing already felt like an issue for her and the fact that even her dash+up smash got nerfed is going to make it even harder. Don't like how apparently you can't ledgenade. :\
 
Just looking at this make me really excited that I've taken the time previously to learn Shulk. Seems like a lot of his best attacks got buffs (if only slight ones) Really never played Shiek since I gravitated a bit more to Zero Suit, but the nerfs look pretty painful. Glad they took Bowsercide out. It was always a pain having to avoid that when I was on my last life. He has enough KO options as it is imo. Is it me, or does it look like they buffed Meta Knight a ton?
 
Removal of glitches put wario and others (I think yoshi? iirc he does something with cancels or somethin) in their place, which is thankfully not "ridiculous glitch abusers" anymore.
Zero Suit Samus's hit issues were fixed, and uncharged blaster was given more putdown time. That already is a great compromise; lowering the spam potential of the character. As a tradeoff it seems that dthrow-->up b and other combos has been improved and up b, side b, and side smash will keep their hits consistent. Overall great.
Greninja and Shiek were turned from fast and powerful characters into just fast characters now? I never played them too much, but if you're one of the fastest characters in the game and you've got an Usmash that koes at something around 80%, I wouldn't complain if there's some landing lag on it.
Marth and Meta Knight were given range increases! They're not forgettable anymore!
 
Yoshi's glitches didn't really affect his competitive play and were just straight glitches. I'm definitely going to miss Wario's, 'RIDERRRRRRRR KIIIIIICKu' momentum glitch though, that shit was hilarious.

Looks like most of these changes are good, but taking away kill options for Sheik is unfortunate, and I don't even use her.
 
Little Mac's fucking ridiculous KO Punch got buffed. Meh.
Pikachu got knockback buffs in FSmash, Thunder, and Skull Bash. Good, the little thing needed KO options.
Ike's FAir autocancels, NAir seems faster too.
 
NightSoul said:
Little Mac's fucking ridiculous KO Punch got buffed. Meh.
Pikachu got knockback buffs in FSmash, Thunder, and Skull Bash. Good, the little thing needed KO options.
Ike's FAir autocancels, NAir seems faster too.
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How'd it get buffed? Also, what the fuck Nintendo.
 
sheik's bouncing fish knockback is nerfed. her up air was nerfed (hits 4 times instead of 6, has less knockback). she gets a /lot/ of lag when shooting needles so followups are kind of nigh impossible. i used to do needles + grab or needles + bouncing fish but thats not possible now :/

this fucking sucks. no character needed nerfes except maybe for rosalina, and for fixing glitches like wario's ridiculous one. otherwise it fucking blows. sheik literally dropped a tier thanks to this and greninja now sucks.
 
Arikado said:
sheik's bouncing fish knockback is nerfed. her up air was nerfed (hits 4 times instead of 6, has less knockback). she gets a /lot/ of lag when shooting needles so followups are kind of nigh impossible. i used to do needles + grab or needles + bouncing fish but thats not possible now :/

this fucking sucks. no character needed nerfes except maybe for rosalina, and for fixing glitches like wario's ridiculous one. otherwise it fucking blows. sheik literally dropped a tier thanks to this and greninja now sucks.
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Excuse me for being a competitive noob, but was nerfing Shadow Sneak and USmash on Greninja that huge of a deal to make him suck?
 
Karxrida said:
Excuse me for being a competitive noob, but was nerfing Shadow Sneak and USmash on Greninja that huge of a deal to make him suck?
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according to my friend who mains greninja (and he's fucking good with it lol, or well used to be before he moved to robin aftr hearing about the nerfs), yes, it is. cancelling dair's lag and using Shadow Sneak was a relatively safe option that cancelled both moves' lag and doesn't allow for much room to punish the dair. shadow sneak now is basically a useless move because that was one of its best uses outside of recovery sometimes.
 
So, I heard Pikmin Throw does more damage now. I guess this will only make Olimar better as the game progresses.
Why am I surprised that Falco's DAir seems faster. Not instant, but a bit faster.
Samus' jab is still trash.
Apparently DACUS seems to be absent, but I don't think so.
 
Lucario did need nerfs too, and Rosalina maybe.

Sheik has even more trouble killing now, and her changes don't even help the characters who have really bad match-up against her, it just takes longer now.

I honestly would have prefered if they buffed everyone to kill earlier rather then nerf outliers who killed early, I don't want this game to develop into something slow-paced in a few years but I'm genuinely worried it will, curious how the viewing audience will react to Smash 4 once the novelty of a new game wears of, non-smash players at EVO found that Melee games took far too long.

Anyways who knows, too early to worry about this sort of stuff.
 
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I don't think the removal of Greninja's Shadow Sneak canceling matters too much; Shadow Sneak itself has comparable ending lag to Dair, so Dair -> Shadow Sneak isn't that safe once people catch on.

What really irritates me is that practically all of Greninja's kill moves have been nerfed - it's harder to do dashing Usmash (as if the additional ending lag weren't enough), and Uair and Fair have less knockback. And I'm not sure if it's just me, but I feel like Uthrow also kills later than it used to. I mean, I understand the Usmash and Hydro Pump nerfs, but was everything else really necessary? They could've at least removed bouncing helplessly off the ledge with Hydro Pump... or improved Substitute.

The worst part is that we probably won't see another "balance" patch in the near future, since Sakurai will probably want everything to settle after the Wii U release.

Apparently DACUS seems to be absent, but I don't think so.
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According to what I've read, it's been removed for all characters. Makes you wonder why it was carried over in the first place...
 
As far as I'm aware, Zero and some japanese players had started to find Sheik overwhelming and was causing some to outright drop their character for sheik after having some extreme difficulty against her. I think that even with the nerfs to her bouncing fish and uair, she'll be just fine. Diddy has trouble killing pretty frequently and he's still a menace.
 
I'm not a competitive Smash player, but I must say that I absolutely love using Meta knight after the update. His new Nair is pretty fun to use since it has more Knockback and deals more damage. His range has also been improved, which is very nice as well.
 
Fuck, I was being a dumbass with Mac's KO Punch. It remains unchanged; his Side B has less range when used in the air.
Source (video not mine):
Ike's jab combo flows better. Good.
Shulk got a 1-2% increase on his damage output. Eh. Heard Rosalina has more cooldown on her grab and down smash and that you can recall Luma faster. Cooldown is very slight.
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"Air dodge landing lag only occurs if you air dodge near to the ground now."
Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/page-26#post-18009343
SnoopingGil said:
According to what I've read, it's been removed for all characters. Makes you wonder why it was carried over in the first place...
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Wait what, it was removed? Dang. So much for waiting for GCN controllers then.
 
I have seen a lot of negative comments about the new Smash patch and while it's understandable that you hate that your main got nerfed (especially Sheik and Greninja) people aren't looking at the new buffs that some characters got like Meta Knight or Shulk. I think that players need to adapt to the changes instead of whining and crying about them, while you can argue that this wasn't their best approach to balance the game there's nothing that can be done and the sooner players adapt the better. Finally, I don't think that people should worry about Smash 4 getting slow paced, remember that this was the first and probably biggest update that we will get because the Wii U version is coming soon and the game is already fairly balanced. So it would be amazing if people stop complaining about X character getting nerfed and started to look at the positives of the new patch. :)
 
TheMantyke said:
As far as I'm aware, Zero and some japanese players had started to find Sheik overwhelming and was causing some to outright drop their character for sheik after having some extreme difficulty against her. I think that even with the nerfs to her bouncing fish and uair, she'll be just fine. Diddy has trouble killing pretty frequently and he's still a menace.
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I don't think any of those match ups change with these nerfs though, but I guess I'll get over it and just learn Diddy or Lucario instead if needs be.

Wish Nintendo was more clear with these changes though and actually told us what changed in detail but whatever.
 
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