This is also what I got from the move, but I still think it might have some merit on a team.
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Metagame Sun and Moon LC Discussion Thread
- Thread starter macle
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This is also what I got from the move, but I still think it might have some merit on a team.
Wanted to see how relevant Doduo and Carvanha's new moves would be so I ran a bunch of calcs with the One vs All feature and here's what I found:
tl;dr: Jump Kick is sick, Psychic Fang won't make much of a bang
A lot of new OHKOes, many of them not possible with Hidden Powers. It'll also be useful for finishing off things weak to Jump Kick at higher HPs and being another strong move to use that doesn't have recoil. It does come with the risk of missing and dying, but it seems to be worth it. All of the calcs don't take into consideration the chance of missing.
OHKOes:
Alolan Diglett (Brave Bird OHKOes 62.5% of the time)
Amaura
Aron (Sturdy)
Cranidos
Larvitar
Elekid 43.8%, 100% after SR
Hasty Nature Elekid (Physical set)
Alolan Geodude 75% (May have Sturdy or invest more into HP)
Geodude 75% (Sturdy)
Berry Juice Magnemite (Sturdy)
Berry Juice Munchlax (Brave Bird OHKOes 37.5% of the time, or 100% after SR)
Bulky Porygon w/out Eviolite 62.5%, 100% after SR
Sturdy Smash Tirtouga after SR
Non-Eviolite Tyrunt
Pawniard
2HKOes:
Solid Rock Shell Smash Tirtouga 99.6%
Lileep
Jump Kick unfortunately misses out on KOing Omanyte, but Quick Attack afterwards can finish it off.
OHKOes:
Alolan Diglett (Brave Bird OHKOes 62.5% of the time)
Amaura
Aron (Sturdy)
Cranidos
Larvitar
Elekid 43.8%, 100% after SR
Hasty Nature Elekid (Physical set)
Alolan Geodude 75% (May have Sturdy or invest more into HP)
Geodude 75% (Sturdy)
Berry Juice Magnemite (Sturdy)
Berry Juice Munchlax (Brave Bird OHKOes 37.5% of the time, or 100% after SR)
Bulky Porygon w/out Eviolite 62.5%, 100% after SR
Sturdy Smash Tirtouga after SR
Non-Eviolite Tyrunt
Pawniard
2HKOes:
Solid Rock Shell Smash Tirtouga 99.6%
Lileep
Jump Kick unfortunately misses out on KOing Omanyte, but Quick Attack afterwards can finish it off.
Psychic Fang doesn't get any new KOes, it just increases the chance for some previously possible ones and makes Carvanha a bit more consistent.
Format is:
Pokemon: %Chance to OHKO with Zen Headbutt->%Chance to OHKO with Psychic Fang
The chance to OHKO with Zen Headbutt assumes it won't miss.
With SR:
Bellsprout 75->100
Venonat 83.1->100
From full health:
Bellsprout: 6.3->75
Bulbasaur: 75->100
Evioliteless Timburr: 68.8->100
Skrelp: 68.8->100
Trubbish: 68.8->100
Not missing and getting some slightly better odds seems better than flinching every once in awhile to me, I'd definitely use this over Zen Headbutt
Format is:
Pokemon: %Chance to OHKO with Zen Headbutt->%Chance to OHKO with Psychic Fang
The chance to OHKO with Zen Headbutt assumes it won't miss.
With SR:
Bellsprout 75->100
Venonat 83.1->100
From full health:
Bellsprout: 6.3->75
Bulbasaur: 75->100
Evioliteless Timburr: 68.8->100
Skrelp: 68.8->100
Trubbish: 68.8->100
Not missing and getting some slightly better odds seems better than flinching every once in awhile to me, I'd definitely use this over Zen Headbutt
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Cutiefly @ Life Orb
Ability: Shield Dust
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 15 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Energy Ball / Roost
Cutiefly looks like it has a lot of potential sets but this was one that immediately came to mind when I saw it. Little Cup hasn't had such a fast Fairy (unless you count Swirlix), and one of the benefits of the typing is resistence to Mach Punch and Sucker Punch. Cutiefly could do some damage to some common mons on balanced teams. No Bug STAB because it doesn't really offer much.
Ability: Shield Dust
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SpA / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 15 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Energy Ball / Roost
Cutiefly looks like it has a lot of potential sets but this was one that immediately came to mind when I saw it. Little Cup hasn't had such a fast Fairy (unless you count Swirlix), and one of the benefits of the typing is resistence to Mach Punch and Sucker Punch. Cutiefly could do some damage to some common mons on balanced teams. No Bug STAB because it doesn't really offer much.
236 SpA Life Orb Cutiefly Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 23-31 (109.5 - 147.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 18-26 (75 - 108.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Hidden Power Fire vs. 84 HP / 148+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 16-21 (72.7 - 95.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Energy Ball vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou: 23-29 (92 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnemite: 16-21 (84.2 - 110.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Psychic vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Timburr: 18-26 (75 - 108.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Hidden Power Fire vs. 84 HP / 148+ SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 16-21 (72.7 - 95.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Energy Ball vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou: 23-29 (92 - 116%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnemite: 16-21 (84.2 - 110.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Psychic vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
236 SpA Life Orb Caterpie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 12-16 (57.1 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
nah it's been confirmed that eviolite stays the same this gen.
They'll probably have less of an impact than they do in other tiers because items in LC are comparably much more important. They might be good for luring something with one of the high BP moves or trying to sweep with a status z-move like conversion, but I think they'll generally see less use and be more niche options.
Some Z-status moves might have some merit, but given that you need to give up Eviolite or Life Orb or Scarf etc it might not be worth it. And Z-Moves don't even use up the item so Unburden and Acrobatics aren't triggered. Seems that you'd have more power using a Life Orb throughout the game than using one ~180 BP move in the battle. Seems like a lot to give up the item slot for. I guess lure sets could make good use of them.
Porygon gets Conversion though, Z-Conversion is +1 to all stats so perhaps that could see some play. Who knows.
edit: ninja'd on all my points, welp
Porygon gets Conversion though, Z-Conversion is +1 to all stats so perhaps that could see some play. Who knows.
edit: ninja'd on all my points, welp
Maybe I'm bad but y'all seem to be sleeping on Stufful. It has a mediocre typing, sure, but being a Fighting-type with a second stab to hurt fairies and foongus more isn't actually that bad besides now losing to other fighting-types (and bb pawn?). It also might not lose to mienfoo or timburr if they are a) knocked or b) they try to switch in. Hell, SD Brick Break Pawn probably need a flinch to beat it. Stufful also has SD, which is cool, as only so much enjoys taking Return + Fighting STAB + Ice Punch off of 17 Attack in the first place. After a boost this hurts everything. I do think that without High Jump Kick or Drain Punch or a generally good fighting STAB it will be only somewhat viable, but its good bulk plus alright speed plus fluffy makes it an all round good mon. While being weak to fire does suck, fire moves are only so common and fire types are only so good in LC. It's a fair trade off, especially since the best Fire types use contact moves so it evens out. It's something that will probably be viable enough for some inclusion beyond it just being cute, and it can probably carve out a solid enough niche despite its flaws. And in two years or so when it finally gets Drain Punch via move tutor in the next game (hopefully this is true) it'll be solid.
I really think you're all overlooking this mon because it tries to straddle the fiercely competitive roles of a fighter and a normal type, but damn it's cute and not that bad. It just needs a spike + sr and it KOs everything besides sprit / slowpoke / eviolite snubs after a boost. pretty sure it beats snubs 1v1 anyway.
I really think you're all overlooking this mon because it tries to straddle the fiercely competitive roles of a fighter and a normal type, but damn it's cute and not that bad. It just needs a spike + sr and it KOs everything besides sprit / slowpoke / eviolite snubs after a boost. pretty sure it beats snubs 1v1 anyway.
So I'm going to try to guess at viability ranking positions of the new Pokemon and Doduo, who has decided to turn over a new leaf in gen 7. Keep in mind that all of my predictions assume a metagame similar to late ORAS, which has a good chance of not being true given any new mechanics.
Cutiefly
I feel that most of the newly introduced Pokemon will simply be adapted into the metagame, and at best find a decent but not particularly game-breaking niche. But not Cutiefly, who has the tools it needs to help shape the metagame as one of LC's top threats. Quiver Dance + Baton Pass is its main draw, as Cutiefly naturally synergizes well with powerful Special attackers such as Porygon, Magnemite, and Skrelp to act as an incredibly threatening quickpasser. Despite middling statistical bulk, its fantastic Speed lets it invest heavily in its defenses, which, coupled with numerous important resistances, will certainly allow it opportunities to set up. Cutiefly also has some tricks like Reflect, Aromatherapy, and Roost to potentially pass off multiple boosts, which, if successful, would probably mean GG.
But it doesn't stop there. A Life Orb set could in theory be quite strong, as it allows Cutiefly to get around Foongus and Ponyta, usually OHKOing with a +1 Psychic or HP Ground after Stealth Rock, and grants it the power needed to sweep frailer teams on its own after a single boost while outspeeding almost every relevant Choice Scarf user (for reference, Modest Cutiefly has the same Special Attack as Timid Elekid before a boost, and ties with Scarf Gastly at +1). Thankfully Cutiefly doesn't learn Stored Power, but it should still have plenty of utility on Baton Pass chains due to its great defensive typing and, of course, access to Quiver Dance. The nerf to Gale Wings only serves to make Cutiefly more difficult to deal with. Even Life Orb or various coverage moves might not be necessary - many of Cutiefly's best potential checks are trapped by CM Gothita, which is still on the rise.
Predicted ranking: S/A+
Doduo
This is probably the single biggest direct buff SuMo has given us. Currently, Doduo only has a few decent checks, but can otherwise generally be dealt with by simply wearing it down. Jump Kick is absolutely fantastic in breaking through Doduo's already rare checks, and additionally has solid neutral coverage with Knock Off so that Doduo has to use Brave Bird less. It still competes with Aipom as a frail wallbreaker, but Quick Attack and an immunity to Ground are enough for Doduo to hold its own. On the other hand, with Fletchling being nerfed, Doduo will probably be the premier sweeping bird thanks to its newfound access to Swords Dance, which is still an important role since Vullaby isn't going anywhere. I imagine Eviolite or Berry Juice would be preferred on these variants as Doduo would be quite difficult to set up otherwise, and even without Life Orb, +2 attacks off 18 Attack hit very hard. However, if it does manage to get +2 with Life Orb, even Scarf users will be hard-pressed to stop it, as a boosted Quick Attack OHKOes Scarf Mienfoo after Spikes.
Predicted ranking: A
Alolan Grimer
This is basically Stunky but better (minus Defog) because it fixes by far Stunky's biggest drawback: a lack of offensive presence. Between Poison Touch Knock Off and Poison Jab (or non-Poison Touch Gunk Shot) coupled with up to 18 Attack, Grimer has no such issues. At minimum this should be B- since it improves on Stunky, but being able to all but guarantee the removal of important Pokemon in Gothita, Gastly, and Abra while still holding its own against other matchups by actually being quite difficult to switch into should give it a good niche, though Diglett prevents it from being top tier. If Timburr becomes a dominant sweeper again (though I doubt this will happen while Cutiefly is around), Alolan Grimer would likely become meta.
Predicted ranking: B+
Mareanie
The gaping weakness to trappers certainly hurts it, but Water/Poison is still one of the most useful defensive types in LC. Coupled with Regenerator and Recover, Mareanie renders RestTalk Skrelp all but obsolete. I feel that this will overthrow Omanyte as the go-to Toxic Spikes setter as it can set them up throughout the match. As a defensive Pokemon, Mareanie isn't hindered by trappers in the same way as offensive Pokemon like Salandit, because it doesn't spend as much time trying to KO the enemy, so Diglett and Scarf Gothita have much more trouble getting in. CM Gothita completely shuts it down, though. Even with its vulnerability to trappers, the defensive utility Mareanie offers when paired with Trace Porygon (and another trapper lure, so that Mareanie isn't trapped first) or simply against teams without trappers should give it plenty of use.
Predicted ranking: B+
Mudbray
Bulky attacking Ground-types so far haven't been super great in LC because the types they resist tend to be used by Pokemon with adequate coverage moves to get around them, and low Speed limits them from abusing the strength of Ground as an offensive type. This means that in general, slow Ground-types don't have many switch-in opportunities and aren't that threatening once they're in, which is why Drilbur sees more use than Sandshrew even though Sandshrew has Knock Off, and why Trapinch isn't among the A ranks despite its huge utility in specific match-ups. However, Mudbray's sheer stats may allow it to break this trend. Statistical bulk just under Spritzee's overall along with Stamina may let Mudbray act as one of the few hard checks to Aipom, along with giving it a great match-up against all sorts of physical attackers. Also, its Attack is really, really, high, although we'll probably end up with Trapinch-level damage (with slightly better coverage moves) since Mudbray will likely want to invest in its defenses. The amount of 1v1s Boxer should be able to win may be enough to propel it to the A ranks, although a lack of recovery will probably hinder it.
Predicted ranking: B+/B
Morellul
That typing is so good defensively, and it has good bulk and recovery to abuse its typing to its fullest. However, it doesn't look like Morellul does much else - Spore is nice, but then what? Morellul will probably spend more turns than not clicking its recovery move, and can't even do a whole lot with its free turns, which comes off as very Shellos-ish in how it would drain momentum. That said, its typing alone should grant it a niche on bulky teams.
Predicted ranking: B-
Stufful
Adorable Pokemon but as a Fighting-type, it has two major disadvantages in being weak to opposing Fighting-types and lacking Knock Off. It also doesn't bring anything major to the table, lacking U-turn or priority. However, its stats are quite good, having strong STAB moves and good bulk, and its ability could potentially let it 1v1 the Fighting-types it's weak to.
Predicted ranking: C+
Alolan Sandshrew
Ice is currently a pretty good anti-meta offensive type, which is why Amaura and Snover see any use. As such, Hail teams with Slush Rush Sandshrew could have some fun match-ups. That being said, there were points when Ground was a good anti-meta offensive type too, and that never got Sand Rush Sandshrew above C+. Also, the horrible weaknesses Ice/Steel brings will hinder any attempts at defensive Alolan Sandshrew. It doesn't have much competition as a hail abuser, but don't see Alolan Sandshrew being great.
Predicted ranking: C
Salandit
Frail and horribly weak to Diglett/Gothita - I would much rather use Gastly as my fast Poison-type wallbreaker. A vulnerability to Aqua Jet and faster Pokemon, as well as some difficulty in setting up, will likely mean that Nasty Plot variants are unlikely to actually sweep. Strong STAB moves and some utility in Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp are probably enough to make Salandit fairly threatening in a vacuum, but I don't think its strengths would warrant actually including on a team very often.
Predicted ranking: C
Wimpod
This one I'm not sure how to predict. Most of its stats are awful, and it does basically nothing on its own outside of fast Spikes (and I guess Scald burns). However, Wimp Out has a ton of outplay potential when paired with trappers, and can force some serious mind games.
Alolan Meowth
The change in typing removes normal Meowth's main niche as a Fake Out + Feint abuser, and the lowered Attack hinders a potential niche as a fast STAB Knock Off abuser. Nasty Plot could be somewhat threatening, but Meowth's difficulty in setting up, lack of damage before setup, not even being that strong after setup, and inability to deal with revenge-killers makes me very doubtful of its viability. I guess fast Parting Shot could be nice but I'm not sure if it's good enough to get Alolan Meowth to be more than a gimmick.
Predicted ranking: C-
Alolan Geodude
I think that Rock/Ground is more useful for SturdyJuice sets because it offers a Volt Switch immunity, so I would rather use Onix or regular Geodude there. Magnet Pull sets are most likely done better by bulky Magnemite because Magnemite resists Iron Head from Pawniard and Bullet Seed from Ferroseed. Galvanize means strong attacks but Geodude is sooo slow that I doubt it could reasonably attempt a sweep (even at +2 maxed out Speed, it's outsped by Jolly Choice Scarf Mienfoo). Its saving grace may be that it can do all three, giving it some level of unpredictability.
Predicted ranking: C-
Pikipek
Yes, it beats Tirtouga more easily than any other bird does with Bullet Seed, but its predictability means you can't quite call it a lure - Bullet Seed mostly just helps make it more difficult to wall. Not that you'll need to wall it if you're just running offense, because Pikipek has abysmal defenses and only decent Speed. I see little reason to use this over Doduo, Vullaby, or even Taillow - I'd say it's comparable to Mankey for type spam.
Predicted ranking: C-
Yungoos
A Scarf set could definitely force some fun mindgames with Stakeout and Pursuit as a pseudo-trapper, and we all know how good trappers can be. It's not very strong without Stakeout, though, certainly not enough to make up for its awful defenses. I doubt any other sets would be viable due to its low Speed.
Predicted ranking: C-
Alolan Rattata
STAB LO Hustle Sucker Punch and Quick Attack could be pretty annoying for some hyper offense teams, and it has the power to damage bulkier Pokemon with Return or Double-Edge as well. Of course, Sucker Punch's unreliability, only hitting 17 Speed, and absurdly low defenses will likely prevent Rattata from actually being any good.
Predicted ranking: D
Alolan Vulpix
Snover and Amaura are probably better.
Predicted ranking: D
Crabrawler
No Knock Off, no U-turn, no Poison Jab, and of course, no Regenerator - as a standalone Fighting-type, I'd rather use Mienfoo every time. Crabhammer is a bit more accurate than Stone Edge to hit Fire-types with but doesn't offer much else. Even as a Poison-slaying Fighting spam partner, Mankey is probably better most of the time, since on top of Earthquake, it also has Gunk Shot, Ice Punch, and U-turn.
Predicted ranking: D
Litten
Intimidate, U-turn, Fire typing and decent (though certainly not great) offensive stats should be enough to grant Litten a niche, however small. It probably won't be worth using because of its weakness to Stealth Rock, lack of coverage moves to threaten switch-ins with outside of U-turn (which it may not want to use too often because of its vulnerability to hazards), and the fact that some of the most threatening physical attackers are Water-type. I imagine it'll be around as good as Growlithe is now, though it would fit on a different team archetype.
Predicted ranking: D
Cutiefly
I feel that most of the newly introduced Pokemon will simply be adapted into the metagame, and at best find a decent but not particularly game-breaking niche. But not Cutiefly, who has the tools it needs to help shape the metagame as one of LC's top threats. Quiver Dance + Baton Pass is its main draw, as Cutiefly naturally synergizes well with powerful Special attackers such as Porygon, Magnemite, and Skrelp to act as an incredibly threatening quickpasser. Despite middling statistical bulk, its fantastic Speed lets it invest heavily in its defenses, which, coupled with numerous important resistances, will certainly allow it opportunities to set up. Cutiefly also has some tricks like Reflect, Aromatherapy, and Roost to potentially pass off multiple boosts, which, if successful, would probably mean GG.
But it doesn't stop there. A Life Orb set could in theory be quite strong, as it allows Cutiefly to get around Foongus and Ponyta, usually OHKOing with a +1 Psychic or HP Ground after Stealth Rock, and grants it the power needed to sweep frailer teams on its own after a single boost while outspeeding almost every relevant Choice Scarf user (for reference, Modest Cutiefly has the same Special Attack as Timid Elekid before a boost, and ties with Scarf Gastly at +1). Thankfully Cutiefly doesn't learn Stored Power, but it should still have plenty of utility on Baton Pass chains due to its great defensive typing and, of course, access to Quiver Dance. The nerf to Gale Wings only serves to make Cutiefly more difficult to deal with. Even Life Orb or various coverage moves might not be necessary - many of Cutiefly's best potential checks are trapped by CM Gothita, which is still on the rise.
Predicted ranking: S/A+
Doduo
This is probably the single biggest direct buff SuMo has given us. Currently, Doduo only has a few decent checks, but can otherwise generally be dealt with by simply wearing it down. Jump Kick is absolutely fantastic in breaking through Doduo's already rare checks, and additionally has solid neutral coverage with Knock Off so that Doduo has to use Brave Bird less. It still competes with Aipom as a frail wallbreaker, but Quick Attack and an immunity to Ground are enough for Doduo to hold its own. On the other hand, with Fletchling being nerfed, Doduo will probably be the premier sweeping bird thanks to its newfound access to Swords Dance, which is still an important role since Vullaby isn't going anywhere. I imagine Eviolite or Berry Juice would be preferred on these variants as Doduo would be quite difficult to set up otherwise, and even without Life Orb, +2 attacks off 18 Attack hit very hard. However, if it does manage to get +2 with Life Orb, even Scarf users will be hard-pressed to stop it, as a boosted Quick Attack OHKOes Scarf Mienfoo after Spikes.
Predicted ranking: A
Alolan Grimer
This is basically Stunky but better (minus Defog) because it fixes by far Stunky's biggest drawback: a lack of offensive presence. Between Poison Touch Knock Off and Poison Jab (or non-Poison Touch Gunk Shot) coupled with up to 18 Attack, Grimer has no such issues. At minimum this should be B- since it improves on Stunky, but being able to all but guarantee the removal of important Pokemon in Gothita, Gastly, and Abra while still holding its own against other matchups by actually being quite difficult to switch into should give it a good niche, though Diglett prevents it from being top tier. If Timburr becomes a dominant sweeper again (though I doubt this will happen while Cutiefly is around), Alolan Grimer would likely become meta.
Predicted ranking: B+
Mareanie
The gaping weakness to trappers certainly hurts it, but Water/Poison is still one of the most useful defensive types in LC. Coupled with Regenerator and Recover, Mareanie renders RestTalk Skrelp all but obsolete. I feel that this will overthrow Omanyte as the go-to Toxic Spikes setter as it can set them up throughout the match. As a defensive Pokemon, Mareanie isn't hindered by trappers in the same way as offensive Pokemon like Salandit, because it doesn't spend as much time trying to KO the enemy, so Diglett and Scarf Gothita have much more trouble getting in. CM Gothita completely shuts it down, though. Even with its vulnerability to trappers, the defensive utility Mareanie offers when paired with Trace Porygon (and another trapper lure, so that Mareanie isn't trapped first) or simply against teams without trappers should give it plenty of use.
Predicted ranking: B+
Mudbray
Bulky attacking Ground-types so far haven't been super great in LC because the types they resist tend to be used by Pokemon with adequate coverage moves to get around them, and low Speed limits them from abusing the strength of Ground as an offensive type. This means that in general, slow Ground-types don't have many switch-in opportunities and aren't that threatening once they're in, which is why Drilbur sees more use than Sandshrew even though Sandshrew has Knock Off, and why Trapinch isn't among the A ranks despite its huge utility in specific match-ups. However, Mudbray's sheer stats may allow it to break this trend. Statistical bulk just under Spritzee's overall along with Stamina may let Mudbray act as one of the few hard checks to Aipom, along with giving it a great match-up against all sorts of physical attackers. Also, its Attack is really, really, high, although we'll probably end up with Trapinch-level damage (with slightly better coverage moves) since Mudbray will likely want to invest in its defenses. The amount of 1v1s Boxer should be able to win may be enough to propel it to the A ranks, although a lack of recovery will probably hinder it.
Predicted ranking: B+/B
Morellul
That typing is so good defensively, and it has good bulk and recovery to abuse its typing to its fullest. However, it doesn't look like Morellul does much else - Spore is nice, but then what? Morellul will probably spend more turns than not clicking its recovery move, and can't even do a whole lot with its free turns, which comes off as very Shellos-ish in how it would drain momentum. That said, its typing alone should grant it a niche on bulky teams.
Predicted ranking: B-
Stufful
Adorable Pokemon but as a Fighting-type, it has two major disadvantages in being weak to opposing Fighting-types and lacking Knock Off. It also doesn't bring anything major to the table, lacking U-turn or priority. However, its stats are quite good, having strong STAB moves and good bulk, and its ability could potentially let it 1v1 the Fighting-types it's weak to.
Predicted ranking: C+
Alolan Sandshrew
Ice is currently a pretty good anti-meta offensive type, which is why Amaura and Snover see any use. As such, Hail teams with Slush Rush Sandshrew could have some fun match-ups. That being said, there were points when Ground was a good anti-meta offensive type too, and that never got Sand Rush Sandshrew above C+. Also, the horrible weaknesses Ice/Steel brings will hinder any attempts at defensive Alolan Sandshrew. It doesn't have much competition as a hail abuser, but don't see Alolan Sandshrew being great.
Predicted ranking: C
Salandit
Frail and horribly weak to Diglett/Gothita - I would much rather use Gastly as my fast Poison-type wallbreaker. A vulnerability to Aqua Jet and faster Pokemon, as well as some difficulty in setting up, will likely mean that Nasty Plot variants are unlikely to actually sweep. Strong STAB moves and some utility in Knock Off and Will-O-Wisp are probably enough to make Salandit fairly threatening in a vacuum, but I don't think its strengths would warrant actually including on a team very often.
Predicted ranking: C
Wimpod
This one I'm not sure how to predict. Most of its stats are awful, and it does basically nothing on its own outside of fast Spikes (and I guess Scald burns). However, Wimp Out has a ton of outplay potential when paired with trappers, and can force some serious mind games.
Alolan Meowth
The change in typing removes normal Meowth's main niche as a Fake Out + Feint abuser, and the lowered Attack hinders a potential niche as a fast STAB Knock Off abuser. Nasty Plot could be somewhat threatening, but Meowth's difficulty in setting up, lack of damage before setup, not even being that strong after setup, and inability to deal with revenge-killers makes me very doubtful of its viability. I guess fast Parting Shot could be nice but I'm not sure if it's good enough to get Alolan Meowth to be more than a gimmick.
Predicted ranking: C-
Alolan Geodude
I think that Rock/Ground is more useful for SturdyJuice sets because it offers a Volt Switch immunity, so I would rather use Onix or regular Geodude there. Magnet Pull sets are most likely done better by bulky Magnemite because Magnemite resists Iron Head from Pawniard and Bullet Seed from Ferroseed. Galvanize means strong attacks but Geodude is sooo slow that I doubt it could reasonably attempt a sweep (even at +2 maxed out Speed, it's outsped by Jolly Choice Scarf Mienfoo). Its saving grace may be that it can do all three, giving it some level of unpredictability.
Predicted ranking: C-
Pikipek
Yes, it beats Tirtouga more easily than any other bird does with Bullet Seed, but its predictability means you can't quite call it a lure - Bullet Seed mostly just helps make it more difficult to wall. Not that you'll need to wall it if you're just running offense, because Pikipek has abysmal defenses and only decent Speed. I see little reason to use this over Doduo, Vullaby, or even Taillow - I'd say it's comparable to Mankey for type spam.
Predicted ranking: C-
Yungoos
A Scarf set could definitely force some fun mindgames with Stakeout and Pursuit as a pseudo-trapper, and we all know how good trappers can be. It's not very strong without Stakeout, though, certainly not enough to make up for its awful defenses. I doubt any other sets would be viable due to its low Speed.
Predicted ranking: C-
Alolan Rattata
STAB LO Hustle Sucker Punch and Quick Attack could be pretty annoying for some hyper offense teams, and it has the power to damage bulkier Pokemon with Return or Double-Edge as well. Of course, Sucker Punch's unreliability, only hitting 17 Speed, and absurdly low defenses will likely prevent Rattata from actually being any good.
Predicted ranking: D
Alolan Vulpix
Snover and Amaura are probably better.
Predicted ranking: D
Crabrawler
No Knock Off, no U-turn, no Poison Jab, and of course, no Regenerator - as a standalone Fighting-type, I'd rather use Mienfoo every time. Crabhammer is a bit more accurate than Stone Edge to hit Fire-types with but doesn't offer much else. Even as a Poison-slaying Fighting spam partner, Mankey is probably better most of the time, since on top of Earthquake, it also has Gunk Shot, Ice Punch, and U-turn.
Predicted ranking: D
Litten
Intimidate, U-turn, Fire typing and decent (though certainly not great) offensive stats should be enough to grant Litten a niche, however small. It probably won't be worth using because of its weakness to Stealth Rock, lack of coverage moves to threaten switch-ins with outside of U-turn (which it may not want to use too often because of its vulnerability to hazards), and the fact that some of the most threatening physical attackers are Water-type. I imagine it'll be around as good as Growlithe is now, though it would fit on a different team archetype.
Predicted ranking: D
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Maybe I'm giving too much credit to Vulpix, but don't you think access to Aurora Veil and Encore would push it up to at least B? It's been confirmed that Light Clay extends Aurora Veil time now, and with Encore and Hypnosis Vulpix should be able to find some time to set it up.
I agree that Cutiefly could be ridiculously dangerous as support/utility, especially coupled with special sweepers like Magnemite. A Quiver Dance + BP to Porygon would basically be gg. A x4 resistance to fighting is an awesome type as well.
Porygon is already bulky and giving it +1 to SpD, SpA, and Spe would be practically unstoppable. Everyone already knew this but I'm saying it anyway.
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Psychic vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Mienfoo: 34-42 (161.9 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Tri Attack vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 19-23 (70.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Psychic vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 29-36 (116 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Tri Attack vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 17-21 (65.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Tri Attack vs. 212 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 19-23 (70.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Psychic vs. 124 HP / 160 SpD Eviolite Foongus: 29-36 (116 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236 SpA Life Orb Porygon Tri Attack vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 17-21 (65.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I feel like A-Vulpix is in a tough spot because while it's Pure Ice typing gives it less double weaknesses, Ice is already a bad defensive typing and it doesnt have some of those neat resistances that Snover and Amaura have. It however does have a somewhat nice Speed tier which the latter two dont. I can see A-Vulpix having some sort of a niche but not be used over say Snover. To be frank, who uses SW Amaura over Snover and why do you prefer it?
Also why is Doduo still haunting me :(
Also why is Doduo still haunting me :(
Trapinch won't get DD, also it seems that Gastly/Haunter will not lose Levitate either.
e: nvm ninjaed
Even if Gastly DID lose levitate, I don't think it would be much of a big deal. Assuming not a lot changes, the two most common Ground-types in the tier already outspeed Gastly and nullify Levitate with Mold Breaker, respectively. It might beat Trapinch less reliably or something.
To give this post some substance aside from theorymonning something that probably won't happen, I am super excited for Alolan Grimer. I see it as sort of like Skrelp in the current metagame, where it can switch in on certain Pokemon (Fighters, Abra, Gastly, Snivy, probably some new metagame-defining Pokemon), and just hit like a truck with Gunk Shot and Knock Off off of 80 attack. I can see it doing well in DarkSpam cores, and as has been said above, having a Poison/Dark Pokemon that isn't incredibly passive is nice.
Also, I'm definitely on the Cutiefly hype train. Everything points to it being a major threat, with Fletchling nerfed, the ability to switch in on the fighting-types which I predict will be even more metagame defining with Fletchling nerfed, and Eevee running rampant (for a little while). Skrelp looks to be a fun receiver, able to take the Poison- Fighting- and Fire-type moves Cutiefly will hate and donk stuff even after one Quiver Dance.
(Actually I'm like 90% sure Cutiefly's sprite is the front half of a Fletchling recolored with some wings and legs added on. Solid work Game Freak artists.)
To give this post some substance aside from theorymonning something that probably won't happen, I am super excited for Alolan Grimer. I see it as sort of like Skrelp in the current metagame, where it can switch in on certain Pokemon (Fighters, Abra, Gastly, Snivy, probably some new metagame-defining Pokemon), and just hit like a truck with Gunk Shot and Knock Off off of 80 attack. I can see it doing well in DarkSpam cores, and as has been said above, having a Poison/Dark Pokemon that isn't incredibly passive is nice.
Also, I'm definitely on the Cutiefly hype train. Everything points to it being a major threat, with Fletchling nerfed, the ability to switch in on the fighting-types which I predict will be even more metagame defining with Fletchling nerfed, and Eevee running rampant (for a little while). Skrelp looks to be a fun receiver, able to take the Poison- Fighting- and Fire-type moves Cutiefly will hate and donk stuff even after one Quiver Dance.
(Actually I'm like 90% sure Cutiefly's sprite is the front half of a Fletchling recolored with some wings and legs added on. Solid work Game Freak artists.)
Klink gets Shift Gear and Gear Grind then? That's pretty neat, it's bulky enough to set up without too much trouble and Shift Gear is a good enough setup move that it makes Klink theoretically threatening. Only needs 116 EVs in speed to get to 11 (22 after Shift Gear) and Gear Grind is pretty strong. Probably won't be great, but might have some use.
It has a pretty barren movepool though. For Physical moves, it gets just Gear Grind, Return, Wild Charge. That's it. It has a couple of cool moves such as Recycle, Thunder Wave and Magnet Rise. Steel / Electric / Normal isn't too bad admittedly, but it does get beat by stuff like Magnemite and Ferroseed.
Could use something like
Klink @ Eviolite
Clear Body
Adamant
116 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Def / 116 Spe - This gets you 22/14/12 defenses with 16/11 Atk/Spe. Not too bad
-Shift Gear
-Gear Grind
-Wild Charge
-Return
This actually takes on 0HP / 196Def Eviolite Foo 1 on 1:
+1 236+ Atk Klink Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(bunch of 7's, 9)
0 Atk Mienfoo Drain Punch vs. 116 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Klink: 14-18 (63.6 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(bunch of 14's, 18)
So most of the time, Mienfoo will be sitting at 14 HP after recovering from Drain Punch. Gear Grind then secures the KO.
Loses to Timburr and Pawniard however. It's probably not going to be a massive threat TBH.
edit: didn't mean to tag user, again
Hydro Pump + Rapid Spin Staryu woo!
Hypnosis Bronzor...woo.
Does Porygon get anything?
Hypnosis Bronzor...woo.
Does Porygon get anything?
Porygon gets to use Analytic + Tri Attack and Recover, I think. Bronzor learns Hypnosis at Lv 5 anyway so I think that's legal already.
Gonna steal Levi's list with a couple of changes and not nearly as long...
Doduo:
Jump Kick is pretty crazy, it allows Doduo to hit a lot of the things that formerly walled it. It also gets Swords Dance, while I don't think this is too notable, I think it should be mentioned as it adds difficulty to switching into the bird. With an already powerful movepool and very few things that wall it, I expect Doduo to become one of the top mons of the metagame, fast.
Expected Rank: A/A-
Cutiefly:
Lots of versatility in this one. The tiny bug might not seem that threatening with it's lackluster stat spread, but a closer inspection of this pokemon allows you to see it's insane speed stat. In addition to that, it has the best movepool of anything that is coming into Sun and Moon, with Quiver Dance and Baton Pass. Adding even more to it's movepool is it's various offensive options. I expect this pokemon to be very threatening to the various Fighting types, and have the ability to set up on them
Expected Rank: A/A-
Staryu:
An already good pokemon finally getting all of it's options. Not much to say here, don't switch into an Analytic Hydro Pump. (Also I'd like to point out that Hydro + Rapid Spin was already legal, it was analytic that was the issue.)
Expected Rank: At least A-
Mudbray:
With defensive stats rivaling some of LC's tankiest, a blessing of an ability in Stamina, and a respectable Attack stat, I do not see how this pokemon will not be good. A lackluster speed and a lack of priority hurts this pokemon for sure, but I think that in addition to an Eviolite set, a scarf wallbreaker set would absolutely be a viable option. Mudbray also suffers from a lack of recovery, which holds it back, but this can easily be circumvented with it's raw power.
Expected Rank: B+
Alolan Grimer:
I like this pokemon, I really do, a powerful Poison STAB on a pokemon that doesn't lose to Goth is something that LC needed. It's Dark typing allows it to kill off many powerful pokemon that do not want to eat a Pursuit. However, I do also believe that the main things that this pokemon will wall will become less relevant as the metagame progresses, which is why I do not rate it as highly as I would like it to be.
Expected Rank: B
Mareanie:
Regenerator and Toxic Spikes with a solid defensive typing is all this Pokemon really needed to catch some eyes. However I don't see this pokemon being as good as it is on paper. A weakness to trappers and a lot of the things that it would wall falling out of meta can easily spell mediocrity for this Pokemon. However, there is hope for it on that bulkier balance team, which I don't see being used too much at the beginning of the meta, but possibly developing later on.
Expected Rank: B/B-
Eevee:
This Pokemon is a massive liability. If Eevee's Z-Move goes as I predict, this pokemon will be useless against Ghosts, and be walled really hard by anything that resists Last Resort. For those of you who do not know, Eevee's Z-Move is activated through Last Resort, which means Eevee must run that. If Last Resort needs to be active in order for the Z-Move to activate, that means this Pokemon cannot run Baton Pass, and should not run Stored Power, or anything except Protect and Last Resort. If Eevee can come in Turn 1 and Z-Move however...
Expected Rank: C+/Banned
Stufful:
I find this Pokemon to be the most adorable thing ever, but nothing really stands out as super meta-defining on the stuffed red panda. It's Normal typing is more of a hindrance than a benefit. There is hope for it in Fluffy though, as this pokemon might be able to combat other fighting types with it's extremely powerful ability, coupled with an Eviolite. While I don't see anything groundbreaking, there is potential in this Pokemon that I believe will be overlooked at first.
Expected Rank: C+
Morellul:
Meh, I don't see anything too incredible in this thing. It has Spore, which is really cool I guess, and shares it's typing with Cottonee. It is a good typing, and it has fairly solid defensive stats too. But like what else does it have? If I'm missing something feel free to enlighten me, but I don't see this one being better than Foongus or Cottonee, as it's way more passive than both of them.
Expected Rank: C
Alola Sandshrew: (and Cubchoo I guess)
I really don't expect too much from this one either. While it's typing is notable and it's ability is also notable, I still don't expect Hail to be that threatening coming into this generation. While it has a powerful attack stat, it misses out on so much that it could have with it's Ground STAB. A 4x weakness to Fighting doesn't help this guy too much. Slush Rush is interesting, but I don't see either of this Pokemon setting an SD on much, so I wouldn't expect too much from the cub either.
Expected Rank: C
Alola Vulpix:
Like Levi, I don't expect this thing to be very good. While it has a pretty cool support movepool, why not just use one of the better Hail setters. This things main niche is that it can run an Icy Rock, as it doesn't need an item to perform it's job.
Expected Rank: C-
Sandalit:
Going to be overhyped like crazy by some of the less experienced players. It has a decent supportive movepool in things like Fake Out and Knock Off, but no attack stat, utility in Will-O-Wisp and setup potential in Nasty Plot, but no defensive stats to assist in these. It's ability is cool, but do you really need to Toxic a steel type when you are a Fire type. It doesn't even work with Toxic Spikes. I didn't even want to mention the forever looming threat of dying instantly to any of the trappers.
Expected Rank: C-/D
Everything else is either too bad to be worth my time or things that I haven't decided on yet.
Doduo:
Jump Kick is pretty crazy, it allows Doduo to hit a lot of the things that formerly walled it. It also gets Swords Dance, while I don't think this is too notable, I think it should be mentioned as it adds difficulty to switching into the bird. With an already powerful movepool and very few things that wall it, I expect Doduo to become one of the top mons of the metagame, fast.
Expected Rank: A/A-
Cutiefly:
Lots of versatility in this one. The tiny bug might not seem that threatening with it's lackluster stat spread, but a closer inspection of this pokemon allows you to see it's insane speed stat. In addition to that, it has the best movepool of anything that is coming into Sun and Moon, with Quiver Dance and Baton Pass. Adding even more to it's movepool is it's various offensive options. I expect this pokemon to be very threatening to the various Fighting types, and have the ability to set up on them
Expected Rank: A/A-
Staryu:
An already good pokemon finally getting all of it's options. Not much to say here, don't switch into an Analytic Hydro Pump. (Also I'd like to point out that Hydro + Rapid Spin was already legal, it was analytic that was the issue.)
Expected Rank: At least A-
Mudbray:
With defensive stats rivaling some of LC's tankiest, a blessing of an ability in Stamina, and a respectable Attack stat, I do not see how this pokemon will not be good. A lackluster speed and a lack of priority hurts this pokemon for sure, but I think that in addition to an Eviolite set, a scarf wallbreaker set would absolutely be a viable option. Mudbray also suffers from a lack of recovery, which holds it back, but this can easily be circumvented with it's raw power.
Expected Rank: B+
Alolan Grimer:
I like this pokemon, I really do, a powerful Poison STAB on a pokemon that doesn't lose to Goth is something that LC needed. It's Dark typing allows it to kill off many powerful pokemon that do not want to eat a Pursuit. However, I do also believe that the main things that this pokemon will wall will become less relevant as the metagame progresses, which is why I do not rate it as highly as I would like it to be.
Expected Rank: B
Mareanie:
Regenerator and Toxic Spikes with a solid defensive typing is all this Pokemon really needed to catch some eyes. However I don't see this pokemon being as good as it is on paper. A weakness to trappers and a lot of the things that it would wall falling out of meta can easily spell mediocrity for this Pokemon. However, there is hope for it on that bulkier balance team, which I don't see being used too much at the beginning of the meta, but possibly developing later on.
Expected Rank: B/B-
Eevee:
This Pokemon is a massive liability. If Eevee's Z-Move goes as I predict, this pokemon will be useless against Ghosts, and be walled really hard by anything that resists Last Resort. For those of you who do not know, Eevee's Z-Move is activated through Last Resort, which means Eevee must run that. If Last Resort needs to be active in order for the Z-Move to activate, that means this Pokemon cannot run Baton Pass, and should not run Stored Power, or anything except Protect and Last Resort. If Eevee can come in Turn 1 and Z-Move however...
Expected Rank: C+/Banned
Stufful:
I find this Pokemon to be the most adorable thing ever, but nothing really stands out as super meta-defining on the stuffed red panda. It's Normal typing is more of a hindrance than a benefit. There is hope for it in Fluffy though, as this pokemon might be able to combat other fighting types with it's extremely powerful ability, coupled with an Eviolite. While I don't see anything groundbreaking, there is potential in this Pokemon that I believe will be overlooked at first.
Expected Rank: C+
Morellul:
Meh, I don't see anything too incredible in this thing. It has Spore, which is really cool I guess, and shares it's typing with Cottonee. It is a good typing, and it has fairly solid defensive stats too. But like what else does it have? If I'm missing something feel free to enlighten me, but I don't see this one being better than Foongus or Cottonee, as it's way more passive than both of them.
Expected Rank: C
Alola Sandshrew: (and Cubchoo I guess)
I really don't expect too much from this one either. While it's typing is notable and it's ability is also notable, I still don't expect Hail to be that threatening coming into this generation. While it has a powerful attack stat, it misses out on so much that it could have with it's Ground STAB. A 4x weakness to Fighting doesn't help this guy too much. Slush Rush is interesting, but I don't see either of this Pokemon setting an SD on much, so I wouldn't expect too much from the cub either.
Expected Rank: C
Alola Vulpix:
Like Levi, I don't expect this thing to be very good. While it has a pretty cool support movepool, why not just use one of the better Hail setters. This things main niche is that it can run an Icy Rock, as it doesn't need an item to perform it's job.
Expected Rank: C-
Sandalit:
Going to be overhyped like crazy by some of the less experienced players. It has a decent supportive movepool in things like Fake Out and Knock Off, but no attack stat, utility in Will-O-Wisp and setup potential in Nasty Plot, but no defensive stats to assist in these. It's ability is cool, but do you really need to Toxic a steel type when you are a Fire type. It doesn't even work with Toxic Spikes. I didn't even want to mention the forever looming threat of dying instantly to any of the trappers.
Expected Rank: C-/D
Everything else is either too bad to be worth my time or things that I haven't decided on yet.
- Status