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Metagame STABmons
- Thread starter Funbot28
- Start date
That's like saying Blaziken can run a good Blaze SD set in OU and that it didn't need to be banned entirely, or that Excadrill could've run a good Mold Breaker set in generation 5's OU and that it didn't need to be banned entirely, or that Greninja would still be good in OU without Protean and that it didn't need to be banned entirely. This as an argument just doesn't really work that well. While I understand it's a combination of the Ability + Move that makes Komala broken as opposed to the Mon + Ability cases I gave out, it's a similar concept in the end.
It's called Seaking, the 119th Pokemon from the Kanto region. Here's a close up look at the Goldfish Pokemon:
In Gen 4, forme-changing abilities applied to Transformed Pokémon, but since Gen 5, Transformed Pokémon are locked into the forme that they Transformed into.
Ok, now that the Comatose argument has finally stopped, let's move on to something more fun!
TRICK ROOM!!!!!!
Trick Room is a very under-appreciated playstyle, in my opinion. With just one turn, wall-breakers and bulky attackers can suddenly transform into volatile sweepers that can do a number on just about any build, from hyper-offense to stall, assuming you have proper prediction skills, that is. Today, I will be highlighting some of my favorite Trick Room setters and abusers.
The Setters
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Boomburst/Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Recover
Porygon2 hasn't really changed much in STABmons. In terms of viable options, all it got was Boomburst and Rapid Spin. Despite this, it still holds to it's title as one of the most reliable Trick Room setters. With it's solid defensive typing, great natural bulk and Eviolite, there is very little that can stop Porygon2 from setting up. Porygon2 is still a mandatory candidate on Trick Room-centered builds. The last two moves are easy to explain: Ice Beam hits Chomp, Lando and Zygarde, and Recover is for healing.
Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Moonlight
- Moonblast/Stealth Rock
- Diamond Storm/Stealth Rock
Diancie got one extremely useful new addition to it's movepool in STABmons: Moonlight. For this reason, it is now longer as easily worn down by hazards, and can function as a solid defensive pivot while also maintaining longevity throughout the match. Diancie is part of a solid defensive duo I like to call the Dianciegon2 core. Basically, Porygon2 soaks up (no pun intended) the specially-based Water, Grass and Steel moves Diancie doesn't appreciate, while Diancie chews up and forces out Fighting types. By alternating, you can force your opponent to switch out often, giving you more opportunities to set up Trick Room. Diamond Storm is still Diancie's best rock STAB, and Moonblast is still it's best Fairy STAB. You may take out one of these for Stealth Rock if your team needs a hazard setter.
Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam
Clawitzer has one thing going for it: Access to an immense nuke in the form of Mega Launcher Origin Pulse. While Mega Blastoise can do this too, Clawitzer can hold an item, and also doesn't consume a mega slot, making it the preferred option in most scenarios. Origin Pulse reaches a whopping 165 BP after Mega Launcher, and considering Clawitzer's very good 120 Special Attack, switching into this move is a rather daunting task. In case the point wasn't clear enough, here are some calcs to re-inforce this thesis. I had to set Water Pulse to 110 BP, because for some reason, the damage calculator doesn't consider Origin Pulse as a Mega Launcher-boosted attack.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 298-352 (74.8 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Sableye-Mega: 297-351 (98 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 265-313 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (This may not seem like much, until you remember that this is fucking Chansey.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 143-168 (39.3 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So yeah, as I said, not exactly easy to switch into this move. The thing is, aside from this one niche, Clawitzer has practically nothing that sets it apart from other water types. Clawitzer only works on Trick Room; Greninja does a better job on every other playstyle. But if you give you're planning to build a Trick Room team, and need a strong special attacker that can wall-break and sweep, Clawitzer might just be what you need.
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch/Swords Dance/Extreme Speed
Ursaring is already a solid Pokemon in STABmons, laying it's claim to fame as the best FakeSpeeder in terms of sheer brute force. In Trick Room, however, it can utilize Facade, a very powerful move it doesn't get many chances to use on other playstyles such as balance and hyper offense due to it's low speed. But low speed and crazy offenses are what make you a menace in Trick Room, and the Second Generation Bear has both of these. Fake Out is still useful for breaking sashes, as well as buying time for Flame Orb to activate. Facade is your best STAB, reaching 140 Base Power after Guts. Close Combat breaks the common Steel and the less common Rock Pokemon. Finally, you can run Crunch for Ghosts, Swords Dance if you wanna sweep, or Extreme Speed for some good ol' FakeSpeed fun.
Celesteela @ Safety Goggles/Life Orb/Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake/Hidden Power [Ground]
- Oblivion Wing
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
Celesteela isn't just good atbeing an annoying piece of fuck stalling with Leech Seed. It can perform an offensive role as well. This set does just that. With Beast Boost and the incredibly spammable Oblivion Wing, among other great moves like Earthquake and Flamethrower, it isn't too difficult to snowball teams with the metal rocket Pokemon. Seriously though, Oblivion Wing does so much work, allowing you to take down most Pokemon easily while keeping Celesteela healthy. Not much else to say, aside from the fact that HP Ground is better than EQ on choice sets, at least in my opinion. I honestly love this thing, and I suggest that you at least try it out, too! Seriously, stop being a Stall Celesteela abuser and have some fun that doesn't involve the suffering of others
Now, you may be about to ask me "Dramps, there are so many more Pokemon that can be threats utilizing Trick Room! Why did you just mention these few?"
Well, that's where you guys come in. For the next couple of days, why don't we all try out different Trick Room builds and see what we can come up with? There's so much untapped potential here, and I just can't explain it all. So, go out there and experiment with this silly playstyle! Come up with wild sets! Try out new, unexpected things! Let's make Trick Room awesome!
Trick Room is a very under-appreciated playstyle, in my opinion. With just one turn, wall-breakers and bulky attackers can suddenly transform into volatile sweepers that can do a number on just about any build, from hyper-offense to stall, assuming you have proper prediction skills, that is. Today, I will be highlighting some of my favorite Trick Room setters and abusers.
The Setters
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Boomburst/Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Recover
Porygon2 hasn't really changed much in STABmons. In terms of viable options, all it got was Boomburst and Rapid Spin. Despite this, it still holds to it's title as one of the most reliable Trick Room setters. With it's solid defensive typing, great natural bulk and Eviolite, there is very little that can stop Porygon2 from setting up. Porygon2 is still a mandatory candidate on Trick Room-centered builds. The last two moves are easy to explain: Ice Beam hits Chomp, Lando and Zygarde, and Recover is for healing.
Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Moonlight
- Moonblast/Stealth Rock
- Diamond Storm/Stealth Rock
Diancie got one extremely useful new addition to it's movepool in STABmons: Moonlight. For this reason, it is now longer as easily worn down by hazards, and can function as a solid defensive pivot while also maintaining longevity throughout the match. Diancie is part of a solid defensive duo I like to call the Dianciegon2 core. Basically, Porygon2 soaks up (no pun intended) the specially-based Water, Grass and Steel moves Diancie doesn't appreciate, while Diancie chews up and forces out Fighting types. By alternating, you can force your opponent to switch out often, giving you more opportunities to set up Trick Room. Diamond Storm is still Diancie's best rock STAB, and Moonblast is still it's best Fairy STAB. You may take out one of these for Stealth Rock if your team needs a hazard setter.
The Killers
Clawitzer @ Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Aura Sphere
- Ice Beam
Clawitzer has one thing going for it: Access to an immense nuke in the form of Mega Launcher Origin Pulse. While Mega Blastoise can do this too, Clawitzer can hold an item, and also doesn't consume a mega slot, making it the preferred option in most scenarios. Origin Pulse reaches a whopping 165 BP after Mega Launcher, and considering Clawitzer's very good 120 Special Attack, switching into this move is a rather daunting task. In case the point wasn't clear enough, here are some calcs to re-inforce this thesis. I had to set Water Pulse to 110 BP, because for some reason, the damage calculator doesn't consider Origin Pulse as a Mega Launcher-boosted attack.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 298-352 (74.8 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 144+ SpD Sableye-Mega: 297-351 (98 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 265-313 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (This may not seem like much, until you remember that this is fucking Chansey.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mega Launcher Clawitzer Water Pulse vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 143-168 (39.3 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So yeah, as I said, not exactly easy to switch into this move. The thing is, aside from this one niche, Clawitzer has practically nothing that sets it apart from other water types. Clawitzer only works on Trick Room; Greninja does a better job on every other playstyle. But if you give you're planning to build a Trick Room team, and need a strong special attacker that can wall-break and sweep, Clawitzer might just be what you need.
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch/Swords Dance/Extreme Speed
Ursaring is already a solid Pokemon in STABmons, laying it's claim to fame as the best FakeSpeeder in terms of sheer brute force. In Trick Room, however, it can utilize Facade, a very powerful move it doesn't get many chances to use on other playstyles such as balance and hyper offense due to it's low speed. But low speed and crazy offenses are what make you a menace in Trick Room, and the Second Generation Bear has both of these. Fake Out is still useful for breaking sashes, as well as buying time for Flame Orb to activate. Facade is your best STAB, reaching 140 Base Power after Guts. Close Combat breaks the common Steel and the less common Rock Pokemon. Finally, you can run Crunch for Ghosts, Swords Dance if you wanna sweep, or Extreme Speed for some good ol' FakeSpeed fun.
Celesteela @ Safety Goggles/Life Orb/Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake/Hidden Power [Ground]
- Oblivion Wing
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
Celesteela isn't just good at
Now, you may be about to ask me "Dramps, there are so many more Pokemon that can be threats utilizing Trick Room! Why did you just mention these few?"
Well, that's where you guys come in. For the next couple of days, why don't we all try out different Trick Room builds and see what we can come up with? There's so much untapped potential here, and I just can't explain it all. So, go out there and experiment with this silly playstyle! Come up with wild sets! Try out new, unexpected things! Let's make Trick Room awesome!
Attachments
Oh damn. OH DAMN.It's called Seaking, the 119th Pokemon from the Kanto region. Here's a close up look at the Goldfish Pokemon:
Never post too late in the night. NEVER.
Why does every physical attacker barring water and ice coverage gets to hold a grand L by lando-t ? Such a nuisance to any physically oriented teams with constant switches all over the place.
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So, I left smogon a while back (something like a year ago I think) after kind of burning myself out on competitive pokemon. I came back recently and am slowly re-learning everything with the gen 7 changes, and STABmons is the first thing I checked out, since it's always been my most-played metagame (hello to anyone who recognizes me, I used to be pretty active around here).
So I've been tinkering with several of the new toys, and I'd like some feedback on the first team I put together. I've played a few games on the ladder with it (I was super lucky that this was OM of the month when I came back) and gone 5-2 so far, but since that's still pretty low ladder I was curious if there was some big gen 7 threat I'm unaware of that wrecks my team.
Umbreon @ Normalium Z
Ability: Inner Focus
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Trip
- Celebrate
- Iron Tail
- Recover
This is a set that I saw on this thread and wanted to try (a couple of these are actually). The basic idea is that it's an incredibly bulky late game sweeper with +1 to its defenses that can still hit fairly hard with 140 BP Power Trip. So far, although I haven't pulled off a clean 6-0 sweep or anything with it, it has come in handy. For example, saving me from a nasty plot thundurus:
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Aeroblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 331-390 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Umbreon Power Trip (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 322-379 (107.6 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Thousand Waves
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
Another set I saw here, with which I've been very impressed with so far; it serves as my primary physical wall, in addition to trapping and killing certain mons with thousand waves and toxic. Also, I've hated diggersby with my entire soul since last gen (although my hate has lessened with the ban of the big setup moves, and now I think I hate Tapu Koko more).
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Seed Flare
- Sludge Bomb
My second main wall and sleep user, with a fairly basic defensive set.
Braviary @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
The exact same set I've been running since early generation 6. While not as powerful as Diggersby or as fast as Mega Lopunny, Braviary has access to flying STAB and an amazing ability in Defiant which punishes Landorus-T and other Intimidate users on the switch-in, as well as catching the occasional Parting Shot for a +3 attack boost.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Braviary Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 312-368 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
Hoopa-Unbound wasn't out yet when I left before. I think it's disgusting.
Although it is vulnerable to FakeSpeed, this thing can break a lot of prominent walls:
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 397-468 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 258-304 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 464-548 (127.8 - 150.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
it pains me to use this over my traditional choice specs meloetta, though
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Moonlight
- Defog
- Taunt
Hazard removal since I'm running Mudsdale over Landorus-T, and also rounds out my defensive core with Mudsdale and Mega Venusaur. I was iffy at first on Taunt over fairy STAB, but after using Taunt I think it's the right choice, as it prevents things from simply setting up in its face, since this is a fairly passive set, and also helps keep hazards off the field after it's gotten rid of them in the first place.
So please, rip this apart and tell me how bad it is and how I'm incredibly weak to [insert threat I had no idea about here], because as my first generation VII team, I'm fairly confident that it's not very good, although I've done decently with it so far.
So I've been tinkering with several of the new toys, and I'd like some feedback on the first team I put together. I've played a few games on the ladder with it (I was super lucky that this was OM of the month when I came back) and gone 5-2 so far, but since that's still pretty low ladder I was curious if there was some big gen 7 threat I'm unaware of that wrecks my team.
Umbreon @ Normalium Z
Ability: Inner Focus
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Trip
- Celebrate
- Iron Tail
- Recover
This is a set that I saw on this thread and wanted to try (a couple of these are actually). The basic idea is that it's an incredibly bulky late game sweeper with +1 to its defenses that can still hit fairly hard with 140 BP Power Trip. So far, although I haven't pulled off a clean 6-0 sweep or anything with it, it has come in handy. For example, saving me from a nasty plot thundurus:
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Aeroblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 331-390 (84 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Umbreon Power Trip (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 322-379 (107.6 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mudsdale @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Thousand Waves
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
Another set I saw here, with which I've been very impressed with so far; it serves as my primary physical wall, in addition to trapping and killing certain mons with thousand waves and toxic. Also, I've hated diggersby with my entire soul since last gen (although my hate has lessened with the ban of the big setup moves, and now I think I hate Tapu Koko more).
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Seed Flare
- Sludge Bomb
My second main wall and sleep user, with a fairly basic defensive set.
Braviary @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Ascent
- U-turn
The exact same set I've been running since early generation 6. While not as powerful as Diggersby or as fast as Mega Lopunny, Braviary has access to flying STAB and an amazing ability in Defiant which punishes Landorus-T and other Intimidate users on the switch-in, as well as catching the occasional Parting Shot for a +3 attack boost.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Braviary Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 312-368 (81.6 - 96.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
Hoopa-Unbound wasn't out yet when I left before. I think it's disgusting.
Although it is vulnerable to FakeSpeed, this thing can break a lot of prominent walls:
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 397-468 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 258-304 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 464-548 (127.8 - 150.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Moonlight
- Defog
- Taunt
Hazard removal since I'm running Mudsdale over Landorus-T, and also rounds out my defensive core with Mudsdale and Mega Venusaur. I was iffy at first on Taunt over fairy STAB, but after using Taunt I think it's the right choice, as it prevents things from simply setting up in its face, since this is a fairly passive set, and also helps keep hazards off the field after it's gotten rid of them in the first place.
So please, rip this apart and tell me how bad it is and how I'm incredibly weak to [insert threat I had no idea about here], because as my first generation VII team, I'm fairly confident that it's not very good, although I've done decently with it so far.
Welcome back! You picked a great metagame to start with. The team doesn't look too shabby at a glance, but there are a few holes that I can see.
I think my main issue with the team is that it's not defensively equipped to tackle a number of the setup sweepers, and not powerful enough to really pressure/revenge them. The 'mons I'm thinking of are SD Lando-T and Sub/DD or Sub/Coil Zygarde. Landorus-T is incredibly tricky to wall if you can't figure out its set early, but it can force out Venusaur or Umbreon and OHKO your whole team with +2 Dragon Ascent. Braviary can revenge it easily after a defense drop, but it can also just rinse and repeat or just 2hko your team after Mudsdale is gone. Zygarde with a sub up just cleans your team without a care in the world, since it 2HKO's Venusaur with +1 Arrows and just sets up on Mudsdale until it can kill it.
The Umbreon looks fun, but is a one time setup that can't do anything else for the rest of the game. I would try to combine that and your Hoopa with a Z Trick-or-Treat Hoopa set. It can run Stored Power, Power Trip, Psystrike, Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, or a whole host of things depending on what exactly you want to KO and how much power you want to have without setting up. Z-Conversion PorygonZ is another good option that's similar. I would also try a different physical wall than Mudsdale, since things like Landorus-T, Tangrowth, or Celesteela aren't dependent on getting chipped to accumulate defense boosts which helps them tank setup sweepers. In the free slot, I would get something to replace the power of Hoopa, but with more speed. Maybe a Koko, or Greninja, or Scarf Lando would work well.
As small set nitpicks, I think that HP Fire or TSpikes > Sludge Bomb is worth it on Venusaur, since that gives you something to do when Goggles Celesteela or Ferrothorn switch in on you. Fini could use a rework, as I think the set it has is slightly awkward. I think Haze, Nature's Madness, and Moonblast are worth more than Taunt in STABmons, since a lot of things you'll be taunting, like Ferrothorn, can trap you with Anchor Shot and stall you out of moonlight. Haze + Moonblast + a bit more physical bulk gives you better recourse against Zygarde as well.
I'm not great at fixing teams without just building them into my own teams, so I hope I helped a bit. But I would definitely keep swapping out parts of your team to see how it feels, especially if you're just getting back into mons. I would try different bulky grasses, like Ferrothorn or Tangrowth, different bulky waters, like Toxapex or Slowking, different fakespeeders, like Diggs or PgonZ, etc. Feel free to stop by <<stabmons>> or the OM room for more advice and testing if you want. I think the sample set doc in the first post will be very helpful to look at. Keep building and playing and having fun though!
dynamite (Charizard-Mega-X) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 188 HP / 8 Atk / 172 Def / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Lash
- Earthquake
here's a really cool and fun charizard-x set to run! the evs may seem wonky, so allow me to explain them to you. the speed allows you to reach the crucial speed of 406, whereas lopunny-mega only reaches 405. also means outspeed tapu koko. speaking of tapu koko, this counters it fully. the ev spread lets it avoid a 2hko from cb bolt strike, which means it can tank any physical attack weaker than that (pro-tip, there's a ton). for example, lopunny-mega's extreme speed does 36.6% at max damage. the strongest relevant extreme speed is choice band diggersby, which does only 68.3% max damage. that's just to put into perspective how crazy bulky this thing is. it may seem weird to not run impish and the less defense evs for more attack evs, but i've tried the spread i just described and it gives charizard-x three less attack points. so, this is a minimal, but superior spread to run. it's important to note that this is a wrecking ball that needs to roll itself up to actually smash through the opponent. you could run like... v-create or flare blitz > fire lash, but i like the fire lash drop since it completely neuters switch ins. like it lets it muscle right through rotom-w and ignore the strength sap, while not needing to afford a second to even set up. so it's a pretty cool move! earthquake is just excellent coverage really, nothing more. you could run like dragon claw or substitute if you want. give the set a try!
all of those are the most common sets for all of these pokemon, and all but slowking see a lot of use. they aren't underrated / underused at all. not that it really matters.
so, anyways. with a ladder, how have you seen the metagame progress and what are some things you guys see a lot of? it seems to me like the metagame isnt as cookie cutter as it was without the ladder (monotone is probably the better word) with a lot of teams opting to spam normal-types, or just using a normal-type and a lot of support for it. i see a lot of yanmega and dont understand the hype for it. it seems in my experience laddering that greninja is really overlooked, though we all know it's not. i really like how the metagame progressed and how it seems to be more versatile and scattered (in a nice way). note that these are my personal experiences, so yeah!
another thing, a cool set ive been running is av azumarill. it checks common shit like greninja, and a lot of either special attackers not named porygon-z. it's not so much a wall, but a sturdy check. out of all my time playing on the ladder, i have seen zero other azumarill! try it out w/ rapid spin/extreme speed/liquidation/play rough! it won't let ya down.
so, anyways. with a ladder, how have you seen the metagame progress and what are some things you guys see a lot of? it seems to me like the metagame isnt as cookie cutter as it was without the ladder (monotone is probably the better word) with a lot of teams opting to spam normal-types, or just using a normal-type and a lot of support for it. i see a lot of yanmega and dont understand the hype for it. it seems in my experience laddering that greninja is really overlooked, though we all know it's not. i really like how the metagame progressed and how it seems to be more versatile and scattered (in a nice way). note that these are my personal experiences, so yeah!
another thing, a cool set ive been running is av azumarill. it checks common shit like greninja, and a lot of either special attackers not named porygon-z. it's not so much a wall, but a sturdy check. out of all my time playing on the ladder, i have seen zero other azumarill! try it out w/ rapid spin/extreme speed/liquidation/play rough! it won't let ya down.
yes, i run enough speed to outspeed celesteela, min speed magearna, and min speed scizor. here's an importable:
Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
I thought Rapid Spin could be slashed with Fake Out?
nobody said it couldn't be... that's just wishes' set lol...
Wishes explicitly mentioned rapid spin in the first slot. The importable has FakeSpeed.
You can put Rapid Spin in the first slot if you want.....
Yes. I recommend Rapid Spin. For the particular team of that importable, I had Defog Landorus-T anyways, so I went with Fake Out instead. Use whichever works best for your team. Rapid Spin is better, but if the entry hazard removal is already in place, run Fake Out.