Metagame STAAABmons

[The Number Man]

Quick update, RICEMAN has stepped off the council due to a busier schedule, I would like to thank him for all of his contributions. On the bright side, I am pleased to announce that Eggs McGee has agreed to join the council!

With that said, the council has decided to vote on Dragon Ascent, which means that Dragon Ascent is now restricted from STAAABmons!

We believe that this will scale back the power of Flying types in the current meta, therefore relaxing the constraints players have been facing in their attempts to construct adequate defensive cores.

 

[Byleth]

Yay congrats Eggs Mcgee, RIP RICEMAN, bye Dragon Ascent. With that out of the way, I would also like to make some VR noms.

-> Water Absorb: This is an ability nom which I feel should be listed as Excadrill can trap waters such as Pex, Fini, Suicune (sometimes), Rotom-W, etc, trying to Flip turn or fish for Scald and turn them into setup fodder via Anchor Shot. You can also use it as a midground vs water spam which can be much appreciated at times as a full immunity.

A+ -> S-: I think chomp cannot be ignored in the builder, and as stated before the very versatility in its sets range from Technician, Poison heal, Regen, and even Desolate, and the ability to pressure with sd or ddance all means chomp fits on just about every archetype with the ability to adapt itself vs its checks or outright sweep. Not nomming for S exactly because each chomp set can be countered specifically, as was the case with Lando-I. Especially with the nerf to Lando-I's flying stab, I think Garchomp is definitely the one to take it's place as the S tier ground type.

A -> A+: Two sets in mind push Buzzwole from an A tier threat to an A+ tier threat for me which are obviously Triage and Adapt/TC (Thunder Punch). In the sake of triage, Buzzwole finds itself being a fantastic win con with bug and fighting netting decent coverage to have most teams in a panic once their main wall to Buzzwole is weakened. Buzzwole is also able to invalidate most physical attackers from harming it just by clicking bulk up due to its massive physicsl bulk. With the dragon ascent nerf, Lando-I and Zapdos-G will not be as popular to keep Buzzwole in check which gives breathing room for one to run it. Band Buzzwole on the other hand has specific counterplay in poisons/fairies/flyings like Pex and Fini which it can still tech for. Its First Impression from Adapt band is strong enough to 2hko offensive resists meaning you revenge almost all offensive mons lacking Dazzling, having a nuclear CC while also having U-turn for momentum on it's inevitable switchins is nothing to scoff at. Magearna being gone is a plus as it's now one less offensive mon to be able to handle First Impression.

B -> B+: I think Weavile is greatly underrated in this meta due to being completely dropped after Glacial Lance restrict, so this is a small rise for it. It's capability in the current meta is up to par with the rest of B+, and it is still a devastating wallbreaker that can opt to hit hard from the get-go via choice band adapt. Will provide calcs if needed but Weavile with stab Knock and Axel alone is able to 2HKO most of the metas and net easy ohko's with Axel vs offensive mons. Triple Axel's accuracy is holding me back from nomming this any higher atm, but when all hits connect it's actually just only 20 less bp than Adapt lance, (or 10 bp stronger with Technician) meaning it's still very threatening. Knock is very spammable on this mon as well and with Magearna leaving, it has allowed it to breathe a lot more as well.

UR -> B/B+: I find it strange for this to not have been ranked at all but basically it works as a solid regenvest/Levitate pivot and a spectacular psyspam/Aerilate burst check with the ability to pressure with Doom Desire/Future Sight. Should totally be ranked imo.

And that is all! Although Lando-I and Zapdos-G are clearly worse with the restrict of dascent, I feel it is too early to nom them specifically due to the dascent restrict being very recent. Still loving this format, may lay opinions about future changes/noms at a later time.

 

[Shady Icy]

pheal tapu fini vs espeed dragonite

 

[fabwooloo]

Ok why is this C tier
With the recent mag ban alot of mons are gonna raise up viability, some examples being noivern and latias, but i feel one mon that was left in the dirt was Tapu Lele.
Magearna had a wide movepool, which led to its sflo set being formed with mblast/fblast/thunderbolt and autotomize. With autotomize it could run modest and break through a good majority of the metagame. Now with mag banned i feel that tapu lele can take up that role and can actually perform it better due to its access to psystrike. Mag ran thunderbolt mostly to not be mono walled by toxapex but with psystrike dealing with that tapu lele also has a move to deal with chansey.

Calcs (Guaranteed 2hkos assuming rocks are up)

Max HP/Defense: 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 309-364 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Max HP/Special defense: 252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 733-863 (104.1 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Max Defense/Special defense: 252+ SpA Life Orb Tapu Lele Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 308-364 (48 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

At +2 speed thanks to access to agility through stabmons it outspeeds a good majority of the metagame including mons like barraskewda, Jolly/Timid Regieleki, scarf Latias and more. It can also ohko/2hko almost all of the metagame bar some mons like doublade/aegislash which have the typing needed to switch into it. This mon can perform extremely well on Hyper offense teams with spikes/rock support letting it 2hko or OHKO any mon.

And its not like this is its only viable set either, scarf adapt/psyterrain can revenge kill mons whilst still being good at breaking. With scarf adapt you can run both focus blast for heatran and thunderbolt for corviknight as you dont need psychic/photon geyser. With psyterrain whilst you still have to choose between those 2 you also have the breaking potential with access to expanding force.

My main point here is that this mon absolutely doesnt deserve to be C tier and is at the minimum A tier, with sflo adapt and psyterrain all being great at breaking teams especially with the magearna ban.

 

[Tranquility]

View attachment 344605View attachment 344606
Ok why is this C tier
With the recent mag ban alot of mons are gonna raise up viability, some examples being noivern and latias, but i feel one mon that was left in the dirt was Tapu Lele.

My main point here is that this mon absolutely doesnt deserve to be C tier and is at the minimum A tier, with sflo adapt and psyterrain all being great at breaking teams especially with the magearna ban.

This is more of an indictment on the lack of resources we've updated since our bans. 3 of the sample teams we've listed are now illegal due to bans and many of the setpedia sets are too (or should be updated). It's something we plan to update within the coming weeks, so feel free to submit your own ideas for the VR and Sample Teams/Setpedia, it would be very helpful for us and to get a gage on how y'all feel about the tier.

 

[CactuzFarmer]

I really think weavile is ban worthy look what it did to max Hp max def buzzwole 2 hit ko’ed axel granted it needed to hit axel 3 times twice but that’s what happed and from there it just proceeded to destroy the rest of the team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1356178666 other than fini what can switch into banded weavile?? Do I need to have fini on every team just to make sure I don’t get washed by this monster?

 

[Byleth]

I really think weavile is ban worthy look what it did to max Hp max def buzzwole 2 hit ko’ed axel granted it needed to hit axel 3 times twice but that’s what happed and from there it just proceeded to destroy the rest of the team https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1356178666 other than fini what can switch into banded weavile?? Do I need to have fini on every team just to make sure I don’t get washed by this monster?

What happened here was an exploitation of no good ice resist/way to pressure or chip it offensively. So I present to you, Weavile checks with this set in mind:


Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Triple Axel
- Ice Shard
- Parting Shot / Sucker Punch / Low Kick

Various Pheal users that resist Ice.

Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Poison Heal / Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect / Defog
- Moonblast
- Flip Turn /Scald
- Knock Off

Not much to explain here because you've identified this as a counter but it's a pretty common and splashable mon in the meta so fitting it on your team isn't a problem. Regen for Fini and the mons later to be mentioned work in similar fashion of checking Weavile as well. Others such as Suicune and Golisopod will work as long as they are kept relatively healthy after their item is Knocked Off, making Weavile relatively helpless against them.

Toxapex

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold / Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald / Flip Turn
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic / Knock Off / Flip Turn

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You take heavy damage switching into banded Knock Off and lose your item, but then you proceed to wall Weavile without your item:
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

to which you can threaten burns on it or use it for momentum.

Other potential options


Thick fat Corviknight acts as an ice resist so it will naturally deter Weavile from spamming axel. This can be shaky if you can't remove rocks from the field as banded knock with item into no item will remove it in that case but can serve as a secondary stop if you want it, regardless. Dauntless Buzzole on the otherhand just walls Weavile as shown here:
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. +1 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 156-186 (37.3 - 44.4%) -- approx. 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Triage/First Impression

This is a common way to keep the pressure up on Weavile as it is physically frail, making it susceptible to any common priority that can go faster than it's Ice Shard/Sucker Punch. In the case of Golisopod and Buzzwole, these mons have the bulk to switch directly into Weavile if need be as well.

Chip: Stealth Rock / Rocky Helmet

Although Weavile can self remove helmets through the use of Knock, it often affects which move Weavile will use first which can be used to make predictions as rocky helm will ruin Weavile clicking Axel. This is made worse by also being weak to SR unless Magic Guard, and requiring pivots/double switching to bring it in with it's poor bulk. This means you can limit Weavile's options of coming in with not much relative difficulty. Last thing I would like to add on is its over reliance on axel for wallbreaking power compared to a breaker such as Buzzwole/Heliolisk/Victini. The restrict of Glacial Lance rightfully put Weavile in the gutter and it is very noticeable that TA as a replacement does not bring it back to its "broken" state due to having unappealing accuracy, contact properties, and messing up 2hko's should you even miss a single hit.

When you add all these things together, I think we have a very manageable mon that can be prepped for with not much hassle, but still notably strong (supporting a rise for it on VR). If you feel you need to put pressure on Weavile, feel free to use one of the above options.

 

[The Number Man]

As some of you may have noticed, I've been relatively inactive in the OM Mashups room as well as in contributing to STAAAB for a while now. This is because I've been occupied with other projects and playing in various tournaments, which has been taking up most of the energy I can manage to devote to smogon and PS. As a result, I just haven't been able to give this meta the attention it deserves, so I will be stepping down from my position as tier leader and council member. It's possible that I come back to a council position in the future, if the then-council agrees, but for now it would not be fair to stay on as tier leader when there are better, more active users willing and able to do the job.

With that said, please welcome Don Vascus and Eggs McGee, STAAAB's new co-leaders. They've recently stepped up to council positions but new blood is what this meta needs atm imo, so I'm fully confident they will elevate it even higher. I wish the new council the best in running this metagame!

 

[Miss Crisis]

Hi Everyone, Eggs here! This is my first post as co-leader, and I'm excited to work with Don and the rest of council to further improve STAAAB! For the past week we've been working on a Viability Rankings, but unfortunately we will have to postpone that project because of our latest announcement:

Poison Heal is now banned from STAAABmons!

While AAA banned Poison Heal a while ago, we were hesitant to do the same in STAAAB. One of the most common arguments against banning Poison Heal was the overall higher power level of offensive threats, as STABmons gives most Pokemon more powerful STAB moves to break through Poison Heal walls with. For example,

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 140-165 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 168-199 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

However, especially recently, more and more discussion has been had on Poison Heal, and how it enables some of the best Pokemon in the format. STAAAB's primary Poison Heal users are walls who appreciate the extra recovery, and bulky setup sweepers. Tapu Fini, a very imporant Pokemon in the current metagame, greatly appreciates the passive recovery and status immunity, while also not caring if its item is removed, making it an even more potent defensive Pokemon capable of dealing with many dangerous physical attackers like Buzzwole and Victini.

As for the bulky setup sweepers, a very common type of win condition and sweeper in STAAAB is the Clangorous Soul + Poison Heal Dragon Type, often called ClangHeal Dragons. Hydreigon, Latias, Kyurem, and Garchomp are all excellent Pokemon in their own right, and each can potentially run a dangerous ClangHeal set in addition to their other sets. Poison Heal helps mitigate the damage taken from Clangorous Soul, further facilitating the bulk of these Pokemon and making them much harder to revenge kill, while still having the benefits of status immunity and not being dependent on an item. These sets also require different counterplay from the opponent, making them unpredictable and much more difficult to play around.

The council suspects that a Poison Heal ban will make the metagame more diverse and innovative, as this ban will hit quite a few of the most important Pokemon in the meta. At the moment, we have a few things on our watchlist, but nothing we're ready to take action on yet.

Watchlist

Chansey: It's the blob, and it does blob things. Many STAAAB players, myself included, consider Chansey to be a "neccesary evil" to keep dangerous special attackers empowered by STAAAB (Inteleon, Heatran, etc) in check. However, Chansey is omnipresent and the metagame is clearly centralized around it. A Chansey ban would require a fundamental restructuring of the format, and would need to be followed up by quite a few bans of Pokemon no longer checked by it.
Water Spout + Eruption: These moves, usually called "The Spouts", see a surprising amount of usage. Although they have a high Risk-Reward ratio, the reward is a 150 base power STAB move usually boosted by Primordial Sea/Desolate Land and Choice Specs. While the primary users in Inteleon and Heatran require a lot of team support (these things hate rocks more than pre-boots Volcarona), the destruction they provide is devastating, and could very well turn out to be unhealthy for the format.
Regenerator: Even in a format where reliable recovery is much more common, Regenerator is incredibly useful. Part of this is due to the extended availability of Flip Turn and Teleport, allowing many Pokemon to work as effective Regenerator pivots. Regenerator is also seen on Pokemon with reliable recovery like Chansey, Tapu Fini, and Swampert, all of whom benefit from being able to heal manually and via switching or pivoting.

Thanks for reading, and we hope you enjoy STAAABmons!
tagging Think for implementation

 

[Tranquility]

STAAAB Updates

​

The STAAAB Vr has been updated after the recent waves of bans! The rankings were done by the council as well as with Binacleisthebest and 23Gz to be more in tune with the current meta. The Corresponding setpedias for the VR are being worked on, but feel free to submit setpedias for any mon that doesn't have one or VR Nominations of your own in the thread!

Additionally, The STAAAB Samples have been updated! Feel free to submit your own teams for samples as well if you're interested.

OMM's is hosting a Community Create A Team discussion for STAAAB Next week! Tune in at 6 PM Est (-4) in the OMM Room to create teams with the rest of the community!

Lastly, STAAABmons is one of the tiers in the OMM Trio's Tour! Feel free to sign up with two other friends in the second rendition of the OMM based forum tour.

 

[Miss Crisis]

Trick Room in STAAABmons: A Guide to the Objectively Best Playstyle ​

Welcome to a guide to Trick Room in STAAABmons! Trick Room is an uncommon and underutilized type of hyper offence in STAAABmons, infamous for its immense breaking power and the ability to win games off of a single prediction. This guide will explore and showcase the setters, breakers, and gameplay of Trick Room teams, and hopefully leave you with a better understanding of the archetype as a whole!

The Setters:
Naturally, Trick Room teams need Trick Room setters to function. Having defensive Pokemon dedicated to setting Trick Room is important, especially in a format like STAAABmons, where the increased power level means offensive Pokemon using Trick Room are liable to be KO'd before getting Trick Room up again. Good Trick Room setters generally have a combination of the following qualities: Fantastic Bulk, Few Weaknesses, Pivot Move(s), and General Utility. Here is a list of the setters I use, with some other potential setters listed at the end.

Cresselia: In my opinion, Cresselia is mandatory on every Trick Room team. As one of the bulkiest Pokemon ever created, Cresselia is a natural fit on Trick Room teams. STABmons has given it the gift of Teleport, allowing it to set Trick Room and safely pivot out to a teammate, making it one of the most effective and reliable setters in the format. Cresselia has two excellent sets to pick between; the standard Magic Bounce set allows it to avoid getting taunted or statused while also keeping Hazards off of its side, while Prankster is a nasty surprise that allows it to cripple an opposing Pokemon with a Laggingtail, which conveniently allows your slow breakers to outspeed that Pokemon.

Porygon2: Another excellent pick, Porygon2's Eviolite-boosted bulk allows it to tank many hits other setters couldn't. Porygon2 isn't as passive as Cresselia either, with a decent Special Attack stat allowing it to attack with Boomburst or Ice Beam, and access to Foul Play to better check physical attackers. Porygon2 generally runs Dauntless Shield, which gives it a whopping 688 Defense when combined with Eviolite. Magic Bounce is also another excellent option, stopping Taunt, Status, and Entry Hazards from annoying Porygon2 or its teammates.

Jirachi: While it can't fill the hole in our hearts that Magearna has left, Jirachi makes up for it with its excellent Steel/Psychic Typing, providing plenty of resistances it can capitalize on to set Trick Room. Jirachi also has access to Stealth Rock, a rare trait among setters, and can easily fit it in its moveset. Unfortunately, the reason Jirachi can fit hazards in its moveset is because it lacks reliable recovery, which often limits it to setting Trick Room a single time. Jirachi generally runs Levitate or Flash Fire, to shore up weaknesses in its team, but Prankster is another option that can perform the Lagging Tail + Trick surprise as well as get Stealth Rock up before getting KO'd

Cosmoem: Regenerator Cosmoem is a meme I thought of that also happened to put in some work in certain situations. This fat cosmic blob has exactly three things going for it: It learns Trick Room and Teleport, Eviolite makes it absurdly bulky, and using Power Split on an opposing setup sweeper is funny.

Malamar: The funny squid Pokemon has a niche on Trick Room teams as a lead with Pranskter. Access to Taunt, Topsy Turvy, and Destiny Bond make it an excellent Prankster abuser, that can set up Trick Room while annoying or KOing an opponent's Pokemon.

Mew: Unfortunately Mew is heavily outclassed by Cresselia, whos absurd bulk allows it to tank hits Mew couldn’t. Mew’s niche comes from its wide movepool; after Trick Room and Teleport, Mew can do basically anything using the remaining two moveslots. Spikes, Stealth Rock, Encore, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, and Whirlwind are all great options that set it apart from Cresselia, but the fast-paced gameplay of Trick Room means that these moves are seldom used.

Magearna: Currently banned but good lord do I miss this mon. Mag was an excellent setter with the best defensive typing in the game, and generally ran Levitate or Flash Fire paired with an Occa or Shuca Berry, effectively guaranteeing it lived a hit against a Pokemon attempting to use a Fire or Ground move to KO it or force it out. While Magearna lacked Teleport, it could still pivot out with Volt Switch, while also providing support with Doom Desire.

+ Offensive Trick Room Setters (OTRs): These Pokemon are Trick Room abusers who are able to fit Trick Room into their moveset. OTRs are few and far between, as it is uncommon for Pokemon to both learn Trick Room and for it to be able to compete with the other breakers in terms of raw damage output, as Offensive Trick Room users cannot run Choice Items. The two best OTRs are Stakataka and Hatterene, who have an excellent combination of power, bulk, and resistances that allows them to set up Trick Room easily, while also posing an offensive threat.

The Breakers:
Now, on to the good stuff. STAAABmons enables many breakers, who gladly abuse many combinations of moves and abilities to wreak havoc on the opposing team. Here's a personal Viability Rankings of the various Trick Room Wallbreakers that I've used. Offensive Trick Room setters are italicized.

Alolawak Rank: Most Trick Room teams should use Marowak-Alola. It OHKOs anything without defensive investment or a resist/immunity, and is capable of 2HKOing almost every Pokemon in the format, god forbid you let it get a Swords Dance boost.
Marowak-Alola (Adaptability, Desolate Land)

A Rank: These are the best Trick Room breakers available after Alolawak. Absurdly powerful and easy to fit on teams.
Stakataka (Levitate, Adaptability)
Drampa (Adaptability, Scrappy)
Crawdaunt (Technician, Tough Claws)
Hatterene (Psychic Surge, Sheer Force)

B Rank: These Pokemon function excellently on Trick Room teams, but may have other reasons (power, bulk, mechanics) that prevent them from being as splashable and easy to use as the A ranks.
Tyranitar (Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Heatran (Magic Guard, Desolate Land)
Xurkitree (Electric Surge)
Rhyperior (Magic Guard)
Victini (Desolate Land)
Primarina (Primordial Sea, Sheer Force)
Reuniclus (Psychic Surge, Sheer Force)

C Rank: These Pokemon are viable, but have significant weaknesses and issues that make them outclassed by the higher ranked breakers in many situations.
Glaceon (Refrigerate)
Exeggutor-Alola (Adaptability)
Buzzwole (Adaptability)
Conkeldurr (Tough Claws, Scrappy)
Magnezone (Electric Surge, Magic Guard)
Arctovish (Primordial Sea)
Escavalier (Steelworker, Tough Claws)

Gameplay:
Trick Room gameplay often follows a "flowchart":

Set Trick Room
Pivot to a breaker
Hit something really goddamn hard
Switch/Sacrifice to get in a setter and repeat

Obviously this isn't comprehensive, but it's a good general gameplan to follow.

Threats and Counterplay:
While this guide may give the impression that Trick Room teams are unstoppable monsters that only remain unbanned because of the corrupt council, it’s far from that case. Trick Room has many answers, and can be played around well with some decent prediction. Here are some things that Trick Room teams have trouble dealing with:

• Fat defensive walls that check the breakers you are running: You can’t
• Stalling: Moves like Protect and Substitute are able to waste turns of Trick Room,
• Priority moves: Aside from Marowak-Alola and Hatterene, Trick Room teams generally lack priority or ways to deal with it. Use this to your advantage by KOing low-health breakers
• Taunt: Prevents setters from using Trick Room. Mold Breaker + Taunt is technically the only hard counter to Trick Room, although that comes at a great opportunity cost (as it is really only useful for stopping Trick Room)
• Trick + Choice Item users: Trick Room setters HATE being locked into a single move, as it forces a switch after Trick Room has been set. Non-choiced breakers generally dislike being locked into moves as well.
• Entry Hazards: Trick Room teams generally lack hazard control outside of Magic Bounce. Hazards will generally stay up once they’ve been set, chipping breakers and setters alike.
• Phasing Moves: Trick Room has a priority of -7, which means that Phasing moves (Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, Circle Throw) will go first and prevent Trick Room from going up.
• Opposing Breakers: Most Pokemon in Trick Room teams are going to move after the opponent without Trick Room, and powerful breakers like Inteleon and Buzzwole are able to blow holes in Trick Room teams if they can make it in at the right time.

Big thanks to RICEMAN for helping me out with this guide! I hope you've enjoyed learning about my favorite archetype!

 

[Shady Icy]

Trick Room in STAAABmons: A Guide to the Objectively Best Playstyle ​

Welcome to a guide to Trick Room in STAAABmons! Trick Room is an uncommon and underutilized type of hyper offence in STAAABmons, infamous for its immense breaking power and the ability to win games off of a single prediction. This guide will explore and showcase the setters, breakers, and gameplay of Trick Room teams, and hopefully leave you with a better understanding of the archetype as a whole!

The Setters:
Naturally, Trick Room teams need Trick Room setters to function. Having defensive Pokemon dedicated to setting Trick Room is important, especially in a format like STAAABmons, where the increased power level means offensive Pokemon using Trick Room are liable to be KO'd before getting Trick Room up again. Good Trick Room setters generally have a combination of the following qualities: Fantastic Bulk, Few Weaknesses, Pivot Move(s), and General Utility. Here is a list of the setters I use, with some other potential setters listed at the end.

Cresselia: In my opinion, Cresselia is mandatory on every Trick Room team. As one of the bulkiest Pokemon ever created, Cresselia is a natural fit on Trick Room teams. STABmons has given it the gift of Teleport, allowing it to set Trick Room and safely pivot out to a teammate, making it one of the most effective and reliable setters in the format. Cresselia has two excellent sets to pick between; the standard Magic Bounce set allows it to avoid getting taunted or statused while also keeping Hazards off of its side, while Prankster is a nasty surprise that allows it to cripple an opposing Pokemon with a Laggingtail, which conveniently allows your slow breakers to outspeed that Pokemon.

Porygon2: Another excellent pick, Porygon2's Eviolite-boosted bulk allows it to tank many hits other setters couldn't. Porygon2 isn't as passive as Cresselia either, with a decent Special Attack stat allowing it to attack with Boomburst or Ice Beam, and access to Foul Play to better check physical attackers. Porygon2 generally runs Dauntless Shield, which gives it a whopping 688 Defense when combined with Eviolite. Magic Bounce is also another excellent option, stopping Taunt, Status, and Entry Hazards from annoying Porygon2 or its teammates.

Jirachi: While it can't fill the hole in our hearts that Magearna has left, Jirachi makes up for it with its excellent Steel/Psychic Typing, providing plenty of resistances it can capitalize on to set Trick Room. Jirachi also has access to Stealth Rock, a rare trait among setters, and can easily fit it in its moveset. Unfortunately, the reason Jirachi can fit hazards in its moveset is because it lacks reliable recovery, which often limits it to setting Trick Room a single time. Jirachi generally runs Levitate or Flash Fire, to shore up weaknesses in its team, but Prankster is another option that can perform the Lagging Tail + Trick surprise as well as get Stealth Rock up before getting KO'd

Cosmoem: Regenerator Cosmoem is a meme I thought of that also happened to put in some work in certain situations. This fat cosmic blob has exactly three things going for it: It learns Trick Room and Teleport, Eviolite makes it absurdly bulky, and using Power Split on an opposing setup sweeper is funny.

Malamar: The funny squid Pokemon has a niche on Trick Room teams as a lead with Pranskter. Access to Taunt, Topsy Turvy, and Destiny Bond make it an excellent Prankster abuser, that can set up Trick Room while annoying or KOing an opponent's Pokemon.

Mew: Unfortunately Mew is heavily outclassed by Cresselia, whos absurd bulk allows it to tank hits Mew couldn’t. Mew’s niche comes from its wide movepool; after Trick Room and Teleport, Mew can do basically anything using the remaining two moveslots. Spikes, Stealth Rock, Encore, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, and Whirlwind are all great options that set it apart from Cresselia, but the fast-paced gameplay of Trick Room means that these moves are seldom used.

Magearna: Currently banned but good lord do I miss this mon. Mag was an excellent setter with the best defensive typing in the game, and generally ran Levitate or Flash Fire paired with an Occa or Shuca Berry, effectively guaranteeing it lived a hit against a Pokemon attempting to use a Fire or Ground move to KO it or force it out. While Magearna lacked Teleport, it could still pivot out with Volt Switch, while also providing support with Doom Desire.

+ Offensive Trick Room Setters (OTRs): These Pokemon are Trick Room abusers who are able to fit Trick Room into their moveset. OTRs are few and far between, as it is uncommon for Pokemon to both learn Trick Room and for it to be able to compete with the other breakers in terms of raw damage output, as Offensive Trick Room users cannot run Choice Items. The two best OTRs are Stakataka and Hatterene, who have an excellent combination of power, bulk, and resistances that allows them to set up Trick Room easily, while also posing an offensive threat.

The Breakers:
Now, on to the good stuff. STAAABmons enables many breakers, who gladly abuse many combinations of moves and abilities to wreak havoc on the opposing team. Here's a personal Viability Rankings of the various Trick Room Wallbreakers that I've used. Offensive Trick Room setters are italicized.

Alolawak Rank: Most Trick Room teams should use Marowak-Alola. It OHKOs anything without defensive investment or a resist/immunity, and is capable of 2HKOing almost every Pokemon in the format, god forbid you let it get a Swords Dance boost.
Marowak-Alola (Adaptability, Desolate Land)

A Rank: These are the best Trick Room breakers available after Alolawak. Absurdly powerful and easy to fit on teams.
Stakataka (Levitate, Adaptability)
Drampa (Adaptability, Scrappy)
Crawdaunt (Technician, Tough Claws)
Hatterene (Psychic Surge, Sheer Force)

B Rank: These Pokemon function excellently on Trick Room teams, but may have other reasons (power, bulk, mechanics) that prevent them from being as splashable and easy to use as the A ranks.
Tyranitar (Magic Guard, Adaptability)
Heatran (Magic Guard, Desolate Land)
Xurkitree (Electric Surge)
Rhyperior (Magic Guard)
Victini (Desolate Land)
Primarina (Primordial Sea, Sheer Force)
Reuniclus (Psychic Surge, Sheer Force)

C Rank: These Pokemon are viable, but have significant weaknesses and issues that make them outclassed by the higher ranked breakers in many situations.
Glaceon (Refrigerate)
Exeggutor-Alola (Adaptability)
Buzzwole (Adaptability)
Conkeldurr (Tough Claws, Scrappy)
Magnezone (Electric Surge, Magic Guard)
Arctovish (Primordial Sea)
Escavalier (Steelworker, Tough Claws)

Gameplay:
Trick Room gameplay often follows a "flowchart":

Set Trick Room
Pivot to a breaker
Hit something really goddamn hard
Switch/Sacrifice to get in a setter and repeat

Obviously this isn't comprehensive, but it's a good general gameplan to follow.

Threats and Counterplay:
While this guide may give the impression that Trick Room teams are unstoppable monsters that only remain unbanned because of the corrupt council, it’s far from that case. Trick Room has many answers, and can be played around well with some decent prediction. Here are some things that Trick Room teams have trouble dealing with:

• Fat defensive walls that check the breakers you are running: You can’t
• Stalling: Moves like Protect and Substitute are able to waste turns of Trick Room,
• Priority moves: Aside from Marowak-Alola and Hatterene, Trick Room teams generally lack priority or ways to deal with it. Use this to your advantage by KOing low-health breakers
• Taunt: Prevents setters from using Trick Room. Mold Breaker + Taunt is technically the only hard counter to Trick Room, although that comes at a great opportunity cost (as it is really only useful for stopping Trick Room)
• Trick + Choice Item users: Trick Room setters HATE being locked into a single move, as it forces a switch after Trick Room has been set. Non-choiced breakers generally dislike being locked into moves as well.
• Entry Hazards: Trick Room teams generally lack hazard control outside of Magic Bounce. Hazards will generally stay up once they’ve been set, chipping breakers and setters alike.
• Phasing Moves: Trick Room has a priority of -7, which means that Phasing moves (Roar, Whirlwind, Dragon Tail, Circle Throw) will go first and prevent Trick Room from going up.
• Opposing Breakers: Most Pokemon in Trick Room teams are going to move after the opponent without Trick Room, and powerful breakers like Inteleon and Buzzwole are able to blow holes in Trick Room teams if they can make it in at the right time.

Big thanks to RICEMAN for helping me out with this guide! I hope you've enjoyed learning about my favorite archetype!

You forgot metang smh

On a more serious note, some other possible mons

Sirfetch'd: Incredible breaking power, being able to 2hko tapu fini with cross chop. Leek guarantees crits and sniper for that sweet sweet 1.5x boost. Along with coverage with leaf blade, night slash and poison jab, there is nary a mon that does not get 2kho'd by the duck. Running first impression is also an option to clear the field after a fast attacker comes out after trick room, such as a non-dazzling weavile or regieleki.

Vikavolt: Eggs how did you forget about this. Boasting the second highest unbanned special attacking stat and a speed stat so low that a hippo can outrun it, vikavolt's dangerous electric/bug coverage gives it strong breaking power and sweeping potential. Energy ball coverage allows it to hit ground types extremely hard, and volt switch gives good coverage. A life orb set with esurge or adaptability has the potential to wrack up kills. Even a beast boost set would not be out of the ordinary.

Tangrowth: Yes you read that correct. SWEEPER TANGROWTH LESGO. Even with trick room, some priority never hurts, as a 110 special attack triage giga drain is sure to poke holes through many a defensive team. Along with a fantastic movepool with sludge bomb and focus miss, tangrowth can also choose to run a physical set with knock off and earthquake. Fat enough to take nearly any physical hit from a mon not named victini, tangrowth can also act as a pinch check to barraskewda or gyarados at times.

Conkeldurr. WHY ARE YOU USING THIS MON JUST USE BUZZWOLE

uhh yeah thats it for now

 

[Byleth]

I am sorry about the pain I'm about to inflict on this format but it needs to be done...​

With a STALL RMT!

The Death of STAAAB

​

• [18:16:33] %Carbink Deoxide: 23 you are very close to ending staaab

Overview:
When I was first introduced to STAAAB, I was instantly drawn to it because of all the cool combinations that came with it. However I learned quickly that the meta was not friendly to fatter teams, and as a result there have been no serious attempts at a stall team. However, since I am filthy stall overlord pretty versed in stall, I wanted to give it a hand and after 5 unsuccessful attempts (brutalized by about 50 million breakers for a rough estimate), I think I've found the most consistent one yet. Enough about me though, here's

The Team:



Death Egg (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell

No surprise to have a Chansey on this team since it's the most slappable mon on any team due to it's ability to blanket check even the strongest special attacks (Weather boosted Eruption and Water Spout, looking directly at you). In order to check special attackers more comfortably in this tier, this Chansey runs a 104/152/+252 spread which allows it to avoid the 2HKO on a lot of these attacks without sacrificing all of it's physical bulk, however it is very noticeable. Magic Bounce is used on this build to ensure the team does not fall flat vs Taunt Heatran, which otherwise 6-0's the team. This Chansey just acts as a phaser to set up special attackers and a cleric for the team.

Why This Spread is Necessary

252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 104 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 249-294 (37.3 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 104 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Harsh Sunshine: 282-333 (42.2 - 49.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Any other special attackers like dmaw Hydrei/Lati fall under or meet these benchmarks.

Table Of Death (Avalugg) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Body Press

This is the pure physical defense wall of the team, the main check to physical breakers like Garchomp, Landorus-Incarnate, Weavile, and more. Pretty self explanatory, Dauntless Avalugg takes it's physical bulk to the max while powering up Body Press, allowing itself to become much less passive and fun to switch into when coupled with Body Press (turns you into a late game wincon as well). Avalanche is obviously for the aforementioned x4 ice weak grounds because you want to threaten them immediately. Spin is not put on Avalugg since it is too easy to block and it can't really fit on this set anyway, while Avalugg doesn't need to remove hazards for itself thanks to boots.

Some Dauntless Calcs

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Landorus Dragon Ascent vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 231-273 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Avalugg can preserve a lot of its health trading vs strong attackers like in these two scenarios.

A Toxic Pex (Toxapex) @ Utility Umbrella
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Knock Off
- Haze
- Recover
- Scald

Filthy pex is on this team, disgusting!!! Like it or not, Toxapex is an essential part of this team. It is the Desolate Victini/Secondary weather spam answer to the team, thanks to Umbrella. It also completely walls electrics like Regieleki, Xurk, Jolteon, and Offensive rain Zapdos without risking para and stopping any chance of momentum from them. Originally I would always run Toxic on Toxapex but I found that it is a lot more beneficial to spread knocks on this mon to punish Chansey and Magic Guard mons 100% of the time. The filler move here is Haze, as it can provide a last time reset on mons like Bulu and G-Zapdos for when my teammates are weakened, but this slot is substitutable for things like Toxic and Toxic Spikes. Special Defense is used to ease switches into Gengar and special Weather mons like Inteleon and Salazzle while 40 Defense with a Relaxed Nature allows Toxapex to switch into 2 Banded V-Creates after Rocks.

Calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Toxapex: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gengar Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Toxapex: 103-123 (33.8 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Non Adapt)
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Toxapex: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Expanding Lolz (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Anchor Shot
- U-turn
- Toxic

The rocker of the team. The ender of Psyspam. What more could you ask for? The story of this mon was finding a reliable check for psyspam on stall, since Psychic mons have the ability to bypass Chansey on fat due to Psystrike. With Jirachi on the team, this no longer becomes an issue and mons like Latias, Tapu Lele, Azelf, and Zam find themselves extremely annoyed with this mon around. It is also a sufficient check to Heliolisk, since it can scout what it wants to do with regen and prevents volt switch progress without the fear of Toxapex eating a boomburst or Chansey being chipped. Toxic on Jirachi is mostly for things looking to take advantage of Rachi on the field, like Victini and Chomp while also catching Fini since it can become tedious to wear down otherwise. U-turn is just to capitalize on switches that Jirachi forces, easing up prediction for the wall you want to bring in next since you will force a lot of switches from Psychics although this slot is also filler. Shed shell is slashed here because some teams like to run Psyspam + Magpull so u put a thorn in their side and if they decide to Trick their Specs onto the Rachi then Umbreon/Chansey will handle them.

Calcs. They're hilarious.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragon's Maw Latias Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 54-64 (13.3 - 15.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever [Lol]
252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi in Psychic Terrain: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery [Lol]
252 SpA Choice Specs Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 145-171 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- 92.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 160-188 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It is important to note that +2 Fire Blast Azelf will smack Jirachi but you can scout by switching into Umbreon to make sure, since Nasty Plot Azelf usually runs both Psystrike + Expanding Force + one coverage move, so Rachi walls Gleam and Umbreon walls Fire Blast.

Bad Bug (Buzzwole) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Roost

Buzzwole is a very important mon to this team as without it, MGLO TTar and CB Buzzwole would slice through this team faster than a cake. This is also the primary answer to Flip/U-turn pivots, damaging things like Skewda and Buzzwole that can go unpunished otherwise while regenerating it's health along with it. The Speed is used to outspeed Adamant Tyranitar, while the rest goes into Physical Bulk to tank hits better. At first the Buzzwole had Ice Punch, but I found that the targets for it either weren't switching in very often or could be crippled by Toxic instead. U-turn, like Rachi, is used for pivoting but also to prevent Psychics from even thinking about hard switching in.

Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Tyranitar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 220-259 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Roost this off, or...)
144+ Def Buzzwole Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 520-616 (152.4 - 180.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Buzzwole Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 139-164 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

Evil Eclipser (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Milk Drink

To glue the team together of its flaws and to add the trademark ability to stall, we have Unaware Umbreon. This is the answer to setup mons like Gyara, Desoland Chomp/Lando (which Avalugg doesn't cover due to special fire stab), Talonflame, Kyurem, and more. It is the second Knock abuser on the team due to removing wallbreaking items from mons like Gyara to leave them helpless. Foul Play is to punish boosted mons, so the team won't have to deal with them later and gives Umbreon a way to do massive damage to physical mons. It is also the removal of the team, thanks to discouraging attempts to spinblock due to being a dark type itself and the answer to them on this team.

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Gyarados Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Landorus Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 168-199 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Aerodactyl Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 187-220 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Good chance of winning due to accuracy + low roll, 100% if u get in 1v1 and knock)

And that is the team!

Threatlist:

This is the one breaker that I absolutely couldn't account for. In short if the set isn't Scarf, just forfeit. MGLO BU beats every mon on the team 1v1 and the only sufficient way to damage it on the team is Avalanche on Avalugg, provided it has hit you. Band sets 2HKO the whole team.

While not unbeatable, this mon exerts very strong pressure on the team. You will usually have to sack one of Pex or Umbreon to handle Adaptability/Sheer Force sets.

Only wins if Mold Breaker, self explanatory in that team has no switch ins and slowly dies.

2HKO's everything on the switch, really you're at a loss trying to answer this defensively just hope they don't bring it man (run ff umbreon for it be my guest)

Probably more like Nasty plot Psychic Lucario or other low ranks I'm not going to dive into as I am 3 hours into this post...

Replays:
(Note: Some of the sets are a bit off/changed through the replays but the general team stays intact).
(Another note: Peep the salt in replays)

Webs Offense w Double Boombursters https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1368885922

Rice's Mono Flying Hyper Offense
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1370136449

PsyZam + Magpull Drill Offense
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1376210465

CB Buzzwole + SFLO Lele
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1368997046

Corrosion Chomp + Regieleki + Idk
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1368311922

I'd have more but I dont save all my replays these are just ones a tour win automatically saves if it needs more later I'll post.

Importable

Death Egg (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 104 HP / 152 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell

Table Of Death (Avalugg) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Avalanche
- Recover
- Body Press

A Toxic Pex (Toxapex) @ Utility Umbrella
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Knock Off
- Haze
- Recover
- Scald

Expanding Lolz (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Anchor Shot
- U-turn
- Toxic

Bad Bug (Buzzwole) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Roost

Evil Eclisper (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Milk Drink

​

 

[Miss Crisis]

Hi everyone, back with another round of STAAABmons updates!

Clangorous Soul is now Restricted in STAAABmons

Clangorous Soul enables many dangerous setup sweepers and win conditions in STAAAB, most notably Garchomp and Latias. Both of these Pokemon, as well as most other users, are incredibly dangerous due to their excellent bulk, power, and wide movepools. The combination of Clangorous Soul and a recovery move is common amongst setup sweepers, who can get away with only running STAB moves because of how easy it is to get boosts.

Clangorous Soul sweepers have fairly limited counterplay. While Unaware and Haze will stop the sweep nearly instantly, using those on a defensive Pokemon comes at a significant oppportunity cost. Additionally, the best and most common Haze user, Prankster Toxapex, loses to any Clangorous Soul user capable of 2HKOing it; Garchomp is already not stopped by Prankster Pex, and other sweepers like Latias and Kyurem can change their sets in order to beat it. Another common method of dealing with a boosted sweeper, Phasing, can also be dealt with via set changes; if Garchomp chooses to run Dragon Tail over Dragon Darts, it can phase Chansey out before it can Whirlwind, while also preventing opposing setup attempts from checks like Iron Defense + Body Press Corviknight. I would mention Spectral Thief as counterplay to Clangorous Soul users, but the only relevant user of it is Runerigus, who effectively only checks Garchomp and Dragonite. Possibly the scariest thing about Clangorous Soul is that if a sweeper makes it to +2 and you are unable to revenge kill/phase them out, you lose the game immediately. The council feels that the sheer danger posed by Clangorous Soul's abusers is not reasonable to keep around in the meta, and as a result, we have decided to go forward with a restriction on the move.

Lovely Kiss and Spore are now banned, Sleep Clause has been replaced by Sleep Moves Clause

Sleep has previously been an issue in STAAABmons, which resulted in the ban of Sleep Powder, Hypnosis, and Sing. These moves, combined with the ability No Guard, gave their many users access to a 100% accurate sleep move, which quickly proved overbearing due to their ability to effectively eliminate an opponent's Pokemon for the majority of a game. In this situation, we can see that sleep was the issue, as No Guard was not enabling these Pokemon, it merely made them reliable. Because of this, Sleep Powder, Hypnosis, and Sing were all banned; Spore and Lovely Kiss escaped because they were already restricted to Pokemon who were bad not contributing to this problem.

However, the issue in this situation is clearly Sleep itself, and from a tiering philosophy perspective, Spore and Lovely Kiss are hardly different from the other banned sleep moves. As a result of a recent change to tiering policy, the STAAABmons council has decided to ban Lovely Kiss and Spore, and replace Sleep Clause with Sleep Moves Clause as a result. With Lovely Kiss and Spore's ban, all Sleep moves are now banned, allowing us to substitute these bans for Sleep Moves Clause, and removing Sleep Clause as a result. This change makes the banlist more logically consistent and less confusing.

Thanks for reading! The council hopes these changes will allow more variety to show itself in STAAABmons, as the removal of Clangorous Soul as a win condition will surely allow some more creative setup sweepers to shine.

Tagging The Number Man Think CringeMeta to implement

 

[RICEMAN]

Hi everyone, back with another round of STAAABmons updates!

Clangorous Soul is now Restricted in STAAABmons

Clangorous Soul enables many dangerous setup sweepers and win conditions in STAAAB, most notably Garchomp and Latias. Both of these Pokemon, as well as most other users, are incredibly dangerous due to their excellent bulk, power, and wide movepools. The combination of Clangorous Soul and a recovery move is common amongst setup sweepers, who can get away with only running STAB moves because of how easy it is to get boosts.

Clangorous Soul sweepers have fairly limited counterplay. While Unaware and Haze will stop the sweep nearly instantly, using those on a defensive Pokemon comes at a significant oppportunity cost. Additionally, the best and most common Haze user, Prankster Toxapex, loses to any Clangorous Soul user capable of 2HKOing it; Garchomp is already not stopped by Prankster Pex, and other sweepers like Latias and Kyurem can change their sets in order to beat it. Another common method of dealing with a boosted sweeper, Phasing, can also be dealt with via set changes; if Garchomp chooses to run Dragon Tail over Dragon Darts, it can phase Chansey out before it can Whirlwind, while also preventing opposing setup attempts from checks like Iron Defense + Body Press Corviknight. I would mention Spectral Thief as counterplay to Clangorous Soul users, but the only relevant user of it is Runerigus, who effectively only checks Garchomp and Dragonite. Possibly the scariest thing about Clangorous Soul is that if a sweeper makes it to +2 and you are unable to revenge kill/phase them out, you lose the game immediately. The council feels that the sheer danger posed by Clangorous Soul's abusers is not reasonable to keep around in the meta, and as a result, we have decided to go forward with a restriction on the move.

Lovely Kiss and Spore are now banned, Sleep Clause has been replaced by Sleep Moves Clause

Sleep has previously been an issue in STAAABmons, which resulted in the ban of Sleep Powder, Hypnosis, and Sing. These moves, combined with the ability No Guard, gave their many users access to a 100% accurate sleep move, which quickly proved overbearing due to their ability to effectively eliminate an opponent's Pokemon for the majority of a game. In this situation, we can see that sleep was the issue, as No Guard was not enabling these Pokemon, it merely made them reliable. Because of this, Sleep Powder, Hypnosis, and Sing were all banned; Spore and Lovely Kiss escaped because they were already restricted to Pokemon who were bad not contributing to this problem.

However, the issue in this situation is clearly Sleep itself, and from a tiering philosophy perspective, Spore and Lovely Kiss are hardly different from the other banned sleep moves. As a result of a recent change to tiering policy, the STAAABmons council has decided to ban Lovely Kiss and Spore, and replace Sleep Clause with Sleep Moves Clause as a result. With Lovely Kiss and Spore's ban, all Sleep moves are now banned, allowing us to substitute these bans for Sleep Moves Clause, and removing Sleep Clause as a result. This change makes the banlist more logically consistent and less confusing.

Thanks for reading! The council hopes these changes will allow more variety to show itself in STAAABmons, as the removal of Clangorous Soul as a win condition will surely allow some more creative setup sweepers to shine.

Tagging The Number Man Think CringeMeta to implement

It's great to see changes being made to such pain points in this meta however the meta itself feels rather stale. Is there any potential unbans down the line to reinvigorate the meta and breath new life into teambuilding?

 

[Tranquility]

STAAABmons Annoucement
​

After letting the meta settle following the Clangorous Soul restrict, the STAAAB Council has voted to ban Victini From STAAAB due to its offensive prowess and limited counterplay. Choice Banded Victini under desolate land had very few counterplay as V-Create would OKHO or 2HKO many neutral and even resists. Victini could also utilize fire lash and pair up with bolt strike to 2HKO some of it's counterplay such as Toxapex and Tapu-Fini, U-turn for momentum, or trick it's choice band on to bulkier varients of garchomp and other resists, crippling them in the progress. Many teams resorted to dauntless waters or flash fire mons in order to check Victini, which even then can be beaten by Solar Beam or other specific coverage. In game interactions would tend to come down to 50-50's with Victini due to the variety of options it can do once it comes in, and with the plethora of options that STAAAB has to pivot, Victini can come in safely many times throughout a game. As such, The STAAAB Council has deemed it too overbearing for the meta and voted to ban on it.

Tagging Think The Number Man CringeMeta to implement.

Stay tuned for more STAAAB Related updates in the near future!

 

[Miss Crisis]

I've been working on updating this thread recently, and we recently got a new banner! Shout out to DreamPrince for the awesome work from The Studio!

However, this new banner comes with a dark price: we must replace the placeholder banner Shady Icy made for us. This banner served us well, and it will be missed.

R.I.P.

 

[VoolPool]

Free Staaab Sets



barthalamew (Mew) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard /
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance/Swords Dance / Nasty Plot
- Photon Geyser / literally anything
- Flare Blitz/ Close Combat/ literally anything
- Taunt/ Close Combat/ roost/ like anything bro

So first we got ma boy mew coming with thru with the heat as all ways (literally). Now, the reason this set is so godly, so S tier material. Is that YOU DON"T KNOW WTF IS HAPPENING. Like this bitch could click flare blitz blow your corv to pieces and next turn it smacks it with cc. So your thinking, "this is tuff, ima bring a counter next time." THEN THIS BITCH BRINGS UP THAT NP! AND BLOWS YO SHIT UP! on a serious note, mew is so unpredictable and like you run literally anything you want the sky's the limit. (until Jeff Bezos hooks us up) A couple examples are: NP, SD, Double Dance, Ddance, Spikes, Taunt breaker, Defog, Fast Pivot, Slow Pivot, and a bunch of other shit that I can't think of rn.


Slowking-Galar @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Drain Punch
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake

no comment (but i actually think this a viable set being dead serious.)


Scizor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Life/ Meteor Mash/ Sunsteel Strike
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Very underutilized threat that blankets and checks ton of popular special attackers like gengar, heliolisk, tapu lele, and latias while also not becoming suicidal after a taunt. Knock is valuable utility that forces out chansey, and really anything that relies on their item to fuction well. leech is for recovery but meteor mash is better to hit fairy types. Sunsteel is an altenative for a beta.


Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb/ HDB
Ability: Magic Guard/regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Knock Off
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast/ Heatwave
- Roost/ Nasty Plot​

This really fell off after obvi wing ban, but: it abuses chansey spam and can really start helping you break those bird/chans/fini combos cause those are stupid and should not exist in the game. if you aren't facing the 90% of the meta bulky offense/balance spam u still have great speed and damage to break down those frailer teams. 9.5/10 set. It's better then noivern because i can't prediction and i enjoy knock off spam torture method.

And that's all I have for today. Hope next time when you don't have any ideas you can come here and cook your self up a nice team. Results not guaranteed! ( I literally did no testing with these lmao) also there is prob 30 typos but i can't be bothered to edit this. peace!

​

 

[Miss Crisis]

Hi everyone, Eggs here with another STAAABmons announcement! First and foremost, STAAABmons now has Speed Tiers! These are located in the same post as the Viability Rankings/Setpedia, which is now also in a spoiler to save space. Massive thanks to 23Gz for helping me with that project!

Next, I'd like to announce the recent changes to the STAAABmons Council. Tmi489 has recently stepped down from the council, and I'd like to thank him for his contributions and perspective on the metagame. In his place, 23Gz and Binacleisthebest have joined the council! These two are long-time players of and contributors to the format, and we're excited to work with them!

Lastly, I wanted to shout out Tours Plaza Premiere 3, which is featuring STAAABmons (as well as STABnMega) as one of its 8 formats! Don't forget to check it out!

 

[Byleth]

Before I dissolve into depression about my TPP record (lol), I wanted to share all the teams that I played for STAAAB and my (potential) thought process with them.

Week 1 VS Don Vascus - WIN

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1401279645

Generally fat is not something super good in a format like this, but going into round 1 vs Don I decided to bring this since it pretty comfortably sat on the teams he was used to. The Gengar was suggested by Placuszek, who wanted the team to have some sort of offensive pressure over Jirachi in case Don was to go outside of his norm, which is exactly what happened, a trick room team. Through a combination of Specs Adaptability Gengar coming in after Trick Room was down, some dancing around Hatterene, and Dauntless Umbreon clutching vs Rhyperior, the team was able to win this week.

Week 2 VS Tectonicdestroyer - WIN

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1405946506

This week I was feeling a bit confident so I decided to steal an idea off of TNM's builds at the time, Steely Spirit + Doom Desire. For those of you unfamiliar, if Bisharp is in at the time Doom Desire goes off, that also grants Doom Desire a x1.5 boost in damage thanks to Steely Spirit. I decided to finish the defensive core off with Fini Zapdos Aegislash to cover Buzzwole extra hard and to stuff various other stuff like Weavile, Skewda, Grasses, Heliolisk. After loading into the game, I was extremely confident that the steel combo was going to break through the team and that Tect would be very disappointed that AV Aegi stopped any meaningful progress and that's exactly what happened.

Week 3 VS PokeArt2004 - WIN

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1411047046-u21xv0n72oq9kxfxbctpb0rlwps80iepw

After doing good for 2 weeks, I wanted to just bring something fun. Not only did I bring Rotom-Heat, but I opted to bring it with Noivern. The catch was to make it seem like the Rotom-Heat was magpull, so Noivern could safely cripple Chansey/primordial Zapdos/defensive Heatran and limit what they could do vs Heattom itself when it randomly pulled out Nasty Plot. In testing for this team, I originally had Gengar over Dhelmise but swapped it for a somewhat sturdier (but flimsier) ground answer while still keeping its Ghost type to allow Swampert + Dhelmise to handle Heliolisk. Well actually, apparently it did just more than that. Going into the replay, Noivern was removed too early due to a crit, which relied on Dhelmise breaking the team entirely and being able to sit there. Due to the Gourgeist not carrying Wisp or Spectral Thief (which I assume was on accident), Dhelmise was able to sit on it and threaten every mon on the team slowly. Heattom could have potentially won the game entirely after P2 was chipped, but I didn't want to risk the Hydrei pulling out a random wildcard and removing it.

And that's about it for the wins. It all goes down hill from here so if you came for the win teams you are free to peace out from here ~~but obviously don't do that lol~~

Week 4 VS Atha - Loss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8customgame-1414845739

I knew Atha was going to be a bit of a step up from my previous games, so I decided to scout a little and found that most of the teams used by him were broken down by Kyurem, completely. Cobalion was also an expected pick for a rocker so the team features Rune to completely cteam it and prevent hazards so I could spam Kyurem freely. The rest of the team was just sort of put together, which notably has a huge Gengar weakness but I was pretty confident it wouldn't have been brought. Loading into this game, Kyurem looked as if it won this easily provided I could get it in freely enough. Managed to get rid of TTar while bouncing rocks with Rune of all things, so the game was looking great...and then Kyurem failed to kill Garchomp on a roll. That basically sealed the deal of the game, since I could no longer reliably break the team in time, chomper was still alive (and came back in eventually and Shored up which was a huge problem to my team) and Zapdos inevitably got chipped into Zarude range which meant the whole team plummeted from there. Looking back at this game, I should have clicked Moonblast into Flip Turn to at least put Chomp into surefire range, unfortuantely I did not calc this until after the turn.

Week 5 VS Ax (this name is shorter deal with it lol) - Loss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8customgame-1419968287

This week I wanted to exploit CB Weavile + Calm Mind Lele, because it breaks most teams and I wanted to bring something I was rather comfortable with so I stuck with everyone's basic Chansey Pex Corv core to support this along with Magic Bounce Pert to reliably keep hazards off the field. The Toxapex was T Spikes to handle Buzzwole which was extremely likely coming from Ax. What I didn't realize is that he also commonly runs Gengar, which meant Tspikes were pretty much not useful this match, so regen Buzzwole ended up just sitting on Weavile. Not only that, but there was a JIRACHI on the team, which meant Lele could not break at all and I had no way to lure/remove it besides hopelessly clicking Knock on Weavile hoping it stayed in (why would it ever stay in lol). I think I could have played Weavile a lot better here, such as clicking Taxel on the incoming Buzzwole and somehow outplaying after that, but to say the least I ran into a bad MU and played bad and didn't prep like I could have.

Week 6 VS TNM- Loss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8customgame-1424216472

Well, there was definitely pressure on this game. After getting smacked by Dragonite numerous times in tests and seeing the majority of TNM teams consist of Celesteela to handle things like Dnite and Chomp, I decided to bring Dnite and Chomp with Gravity Landorus to reliably Magnet Pull. I think my biggest mistake in the builder was bringing Chansey over something like AV Pert, because as you'll find out Chansey sucks and good players don't care about it! Well, this mistake proved brutal because I loaded into Regieleki which absolutely smacked my whole team from preview, which meant the momentum this game would mainly be decided by TNM. Runerigus also sat on Chomp, which meant Dnite would have to somehow get through Regen Jirachi and threaten Rune with Double-Edge, but Dnite was not going to last very long this way. Things happened, I was able to initially stall Regieleki into not making any progress through keeping Fini and Cele at full and making clicking Espeed/Volt Switch pretty challenging, and bluffing scarf on Chomp allowed me to get a crucial kill on both Zapdos and Jirachi. Burning PP on Runerigus, I realized that I had an actual chance to win this game, except that's where the fun stopped. The game was now decided on a plethora of 50/50 on whether Regieleki stayed in on Chomp or whether Chomp clicked a move on a predicted Volt Switch to end the game. This went on for quite a while until...I predicted one turn wrong and that was that. This game I am proud of the most by far, but it was still such a let down that it had to come to that type of ending.

Week 7 vs Raj Shoot - Loss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1427915661

After being worn down and brutalized and occupied with other tours I didn't account for, I was extremely unmotivated and decided to build a fun team with Technician Weavile and Desolate Land Cinderace the day before we played (I spent a total of like 5 minutes on this team). TLDR, loaded into Trick Room from the week that was absolutely most likely to bring it, no Marowak switchin, gg.


Huge shoutouts to the Postwick Pult's crew (the most fun TPP team around, even if we didn't do as good as we should have), Blce and Trade for drafting me (even if it was a bit too high considering my performance) and especially Placuszek who took the time to help me out on a bit of my teams and who I feel I may have even annoyed a bit, you are appreciated. Also huge shoutouts to peeps like Don Vascus, The Number Man, Ax, RICEMAN, Eggs, Manu 11, BinPin and Atha who were open to test games, even if I was not happy with my TPP season I was happy to be able to test things with you guys and it was an honor to have people like you guys heavily invested in the format.

Moving forward, I hope to use this tour to learn more about this meta specifically because I think I have come to the realization a decent amount that while I consider myself decent, there's definitely more work to put into building these teams, as I think many of them can be decently improved. Thanks for everything peeps.

 

[Byleth]

Heya, two z here with some STAAAB updates~

Magnet Pull has been banned from STAAABmons!
After letting the meta settle for quite a bit, we as a council unanimously decided to ban Magnet Pull which started showing some clear problems. With Magnet Pull in the meta, strong mons such as Dragonite, Garchomp, and Tapu Lele were able to slot a magpull user on their teams with little to no repercussions, creating unhealthy matchup fishes and discouraging Steel types as a result. While many Steels have the ability to run Flash Fire/Levitate to reduce the chance of effectively being trapped, we felt this was too restrictive and wouldn't always cover every pull option, which included things such as Gravity Lando-I, Rotom-Heat, Heatran, Volcanion, and more. Abusers like Dragonite and Tapu Lele were heavily enabled by Magnet Pull and although we think this should free a bit of concern in the builder for them, they are on our current watchlist.

VR and Samples Update!
With the last Sample/VR update dating back to before the Victini ban, we felt it was appropriate to update the Viability Rankings and some sample teams to reflect the current meta. Some VR changes include (but are not limited to):

Rises
B+ -> A+
Traditionally Swampert has been ranked pretty low due to the amount of strong breakers meaning it couldn't function as a proper wall to anything. As of recently the meta has been a lot more kind to it, with a bunch of mons that scared it away falling out of favor/power or leaving the tier. Coupled with it's potent Flip Turn and utility such as setting Spikes, Rocks, or checking threats like Gengar with regenvest, we decided a huge rise was due.


B+ -> A
Azelf has had a good amount of recent showings in TPP, providing invaluable speed control along with stuffing priority with its Scarf Psychic Surge set. Coupled with the fact that it can reliably pivot, damage both sides with Psystrike and Expanding Force, and Trick it's scarf away all in one set shows how much compression Azelf provides to a team and is now much more defining to teams, resulting its rise to A.

A- -> A
Regieleki is a very strong offensive pivot in the meta, which usually requires a Ground that doesn't mind Refrigerate Extreme Speed to prevent it from constantly gaining momentum for the team and smacking most other targets with Bolt Strike. Due to teams becoming more offensive in nature, this has constituted a slight rise for it.

Drops

S- -> A+
Chansey has been the staple of many teams for a long time, however there has been an increased awareness of it in this meta and it now struggles to thrive with special breakers that can cripple it, such as Azelf, Gengar, Tapu Lele, Hydreigon, certain Heatran variants, and more. Additionally, many of the things it wants to check have simply stopped seeing sufficient usage, mainly the abusers of Spout moves who have their own problems. For these reasons, we decided a drop was necessary to reflect that while it's still very much viable, it's not solidified as the best mon in the meta anymore.


A- -> B+
While Latias used to be a very solid pick in the meta (even replacing Latios sets after it left the tier), the uptick in usage in mons like Jirachi, Lele, Tyranitar, and competition such as Azelf leave it in an awkward place to fit in your team, especially when it can no longer run Clangorous Soul/Poison Heal sets. The drop reflects Latias's slow, but losing grip in STAAABmons.


B+ -> B
With grounds such as Garchomp, Lando-I, and Pert being extremely good in the meta as grounds, there's not much reason to fit an Excadrill on your team. Offensive sets are outclassed by the former two, and Water Absorb has become very predictable while it stills runs into its main problems of its awkward speed tier and hurting mons like Celesteela, Corv, and Buzzwole who are all common in the current meta.

What's next?
Currently, we have a good amount planned but that is all for post Tours Plaza Premiere III, since it has been a good tour to evaluate and encourage the meta to develop. We are also debating of potential move restricts, unbans/retest to freshen up the meta for that period, so be on the look out!

Tagging The Number Man Think CringeMeta to implement.​

 

[WMAR]

TPP STAAABMONS TEAM DROP
​

My team got eliminated from playoffs in TPP so might as well share the one team that i made for the one game i played. I main Stab and Mega but also signed up for StAAAbmons since i enjoy the meta and played long before TPP 3 became a thing. I am so blessed with the opportunity to show some skills i have and really proud of the game i played, win or lose

Replay here



Made this team based on MG Gyarados and broken Specs Adapt Heliolisk Don would be proud and i believe this synergy works really well. Ground resist galore. Bulu gave me priority + terrain for free healing for lisk and tran. Landorus shouldve been waves and toxic but i didnt want tran to be a rocker. I think Landorus was the weak one and could be replaced with pert or something. This match i am proud of because during the game i couldve lost if the Fini tricked its scarf to my Gyarados but my brain remembered that fini outsped my heatran earlier and no bulky fini would outspeed heatran. Watch this battle i promise its worth

Even if its once, im still happy i got to play this meta. Hope i made you proud Don Vascus

 

[The Number Man]

The STAAAB portion of 3PP is finally over, so here's my dump + impressions on the meta.

Here's my builder for those who don't care about my descriptions and conclusions. Following this I'm going to describe my teams as well as point out some insights I gained while preparing for this meta.

W1 vs Riceman

I was facing riceman, so I expected some kind of offense build, either TR or webs. With that in mind I wanted some type of setup that bypasses pivot-breaker cycles to punish the free turns granted by setting TR and pivoting out, and a strong breaker with some form of priority. I was considering triage primarina in the beginning, but realised that PSEA Shuriken is much easier to build with, so I decided to go with that. CM Shuriken prima takes advantage of free turns granted by TR pivots while also having use vs webs offense, whereas TTar pressures TR setters while again retaining usefulness vs offense with its bulk and priority from sucker. Since TTar acts as a Noivern check and Prima checks Desotran, AV pert + Pdef steela was a natural inclusion. I then finished off my team with storm drain gengar to block surging strikes as well as heliolisk Boombursts and magic bounce buzzwole with final gambit to lure pex in order for primarina to sweep.

This team is a very good example of an AV swampert build. It includes a Desotran counter, a switchin to Boomburst from Noivern and Heliolisk as well as a Psysurge immunity, all 4 mons that Swampert struggles to effectively check but can be handled by typecharting.

W2 vs Don

I saw some BH players mention a recently discovered interaction that Doom Desire gets boosted by Steely Spirit if it lands while SS is active in the om discord the previous week, so I decided to build a team around it. Don's style is one that I felt would not be matched well vs this combo, so I decided to bring it vs him. As i started building the team, the first thing i had to decide was which 2 steel types to use. There's not many options for DD, pretty much just Tran, Rachi and Celesteela; whereas the SS mon leaves us with more options. Excadrill, Bisharp, Celesteela (Heavy Slam), Escavalier (Gyro Ball), Durant, Stakataka (Gyro Ball), Lucario. After thinking it through, I realised that I wanted one of 2 things to maximise the amount of DD + steel move turns:
1) the DD mon to have access to a pivoting move (only possible with Jirachi)
2) my SS mon to be able to hard switch into DD switchins
I didn't wanna use Jirachi since it's weak, so I went with option 2 using DesoTran as my DD mon and steela as my SS mon that switches into dragons and grounds trying to force tran out. The rest of the team is just filling in the blanks - pert/pex as my pivots and dhelmise/azelf for speed control.

W3 vs Ax

This week I prepped a few teams but manu kept kicking my ass so I just used his team. This is just a straightforward "abuse the fuck out of gyara while not losing" team, with good ways of making progress on every mon but chansey.

W4 vs Elgino

This team features Zap-Cob-Pert, a very strong core that pretty much only struggles vs CB Buzzwole while having good cplay vs most everyhing else, while also having good offensive synergy between Cob/Zap. I added DesoComp cause its a good way to take advantage of Swampert while breaking everything except literally FF Corv, Azelf for speed control and CB Zarude to pressure FF steel birds or take advantage of non FF birds dying.

W5 vs Atha

I finally caved and built a chansey team (W3 doesn't count). The team is a pretty straightforward bulky offense with regen chansey + dauntsteela and bounce pert to cover their weaknesses while preventing rocks from going up so i can abuse Dnite to the best of my ability. Scarf hydreigon offers some speed control + a psysurge switchin, whereas Triage Gengar is supposed to lure Weavile and anything else that outspeeds and thinks its safe vs +4 gengar. Unfortunately it didnt get to do anything in game, however Dnite was the MVP as atha's resist had no recovery.

W6 vs gz

I had a really hot WA octolock cobalion team prepped for this week but then I had a sudden insight that GZ will probably try to cheese me, either with HO, stall or dragmag. With that in mind I built this. The defensive core is impervious to dragmag, since my steel type answers lele, not dragons. I have eleki, which basically wins HO MUs on its own and I have rachi-gap futureport in order to pressure bulkier teams. The actual game was really close, closer than it should have been due to some incorrect assumptions on my part and an incredibly well played game on gz's part.

W7 vs pap

I hate this team. I wanted to run Galva Kommo + Fish, but idt the team was very well built. Even if it was, I loaded up the absolute worst MU possible and got bailed by a freeze. The issue with KommoFish is you either hard win because their fish counterplay is Fini, or you get fucked by WA kommo check and have no way of making progress in the game. I sadly ran into the latter form of counterplay and struggled immensely. Still, I don't love Pap's team since it actually just loses to ground moves, but props to the lops (heh) for outprepping me this week.

Semis vs tect

I decided to build around gyara, expecting tect to not prep correctly for it (since most ppl dont). Since people tend to opt for steel bird OR zapdos and Gyara beats steel birds and rune but not Zapdos and cob, I added DD chomp as well as it beats Zap and cob, while losing to steel birds and rune. That way I (in theory) cover all common forms of counterplay to physical setup. Pex doesnt even beat Gyara reliably, nor does Fini beat chomp reliably. I included Scarf Ace for water immunity + speed control and fast wisp in case of emergency. Supported by a defcore of pranksey, VA fini and dauntless skarm. Notably, this team doesn't run hazards since I figured CC on chansey and bouncechomp would take advantage of opposing hazards, whereas skarmory prefers to toxic rune/zapdos rather than stack spikes, since gyara doesnt need hazard support to win.

Semis tiebreak vs tect

This time around I wanted to use kyurem+doublade since I hadn't used them before and they are both massively underrated. I went triple immunity: LeviBlade, VA Fini, WA Tran + wish chansey to keep these kekkers (mainly doublade) topped off. I used SFLO iceshard kyurem as my breaker since shard lets it have utility vs offense (which payed off IMMENSELY) and finished the team with scarf mandibuzz, my psyspam answer and midground pivot. WA Tran traps fini/pex for doublade to win, whereas leviblade gets in on grounds and dragons that try to quake heatran- its a very nice pairing. VA fini cause i didnt have a ground type.

Alternative tiebreak team

Very nice Tech Weavile + Bounce buzzwole team. The whole team has p high attack so tech beat up hits like a truck. Buzzwole, weavile, ace all hard pressure fini and other doublade checks to enable doublade wins. Zap Pert shore up the team's defensive weaknesses.

Unused finals team

FF corv + Desochomper dual immunity core. FF corv is a really strong wincon, especially when supported by buzzwole taking their pex out of the picture with gambit or toxicing zapdos/runerigus. Eleki to have a great MU vs offense.


Some takeaways:



Steel wincons with an immunity ability are REALLY good rn. ID-BP, SD or Bulk Up - doesn't really matter. With water types frequently cutting scald for flip turn, the best way to beat bulky steels is way less common than it is in regular tiers. Couple that with an immunity ability and you realise that most of these steels are only answered by Sthief or 1-2 types they are weak to. This leads to plenty of games where they can take over with minimal setup. Doublade and Cobalion are especially good even with regenerator, as they do a very good job of checking what they need to check. Both prevent Gyara from basically ever winning, Doublade beats dnite/mence/buzzwole/gapdos as well whereas cob checks the dark types that are very common due to the power of psyspam.



This mon is also underrated AF. It's very versatile, it can run either Primal Weather to supplement its offensive and defensive capabilities, Toxic would be checks, grab momentum off chansey and even defog if needed. With Deso its one of the few Gyarados counters, which is very relevant rn.



Sthief dauntless rune is the only way to reliably beat DD dragons without opnening yourself to dragmag, which is irrelevant at this point i guess lmao. But still its very good vs offense and prevents IDBP or bulkup wincons and even standard triage lele from winning as well.



Final Gambit on "mon walled by pex" is really good at opening winpaths for mons like doublade and weavile - especially if the mon in question can also serve a defensive role by switching into opposing weavile and other dark types.



Psysurge is insanely good since abusers get psystrike AND eforce. This p much necessitates dark types on any team without strong psychic resists with good mixed bulk. Luckily, darks are very strong in staaab as well. TTar gets knock+sucker, zarude gets knock, weavile gets sucker, hydreigon gets knock and all the other utility dark moves ofc.



The bravest birds. Except neither of them is actually a bird. Still, these 3 flying types are all ridiculous. Dnite can run mglo OR aerilate, both are terrifying in their own ways. We've seen CB aerilate dominate TPP games with resists being overwhelmed after minimal chip. MGLO didnt dominate as hard, but its more suited to beating up on teams with lacking speed control and no way to actually 1v1 it than it is to taking a kill whenever it comes in. Gyara was also seen dominating - its no contest the best MGLO abuser with Surging to beat dauntless and brave bird to beat anything that surging doesnt. The only reliable commonly run answers are Water immune Steels or Deso Zap and Cobalion + Priority. There's also Doublade, Intim Mew with Wisp, Unaware Mandi/Umbreon but these are way less common. Lando is perhaps the least powerful of the three but maybe that's just cause the right sets havent been used. On paper it beats all checks, either with Desoland or Gravity/SMack down.



I was big on bulu at the beginning and I still think its kinda broken, but its just hard to build teams with it in my exp. Whenever I try to run bulu i find myself wanting zarude or dhelmise in the slot because they have better def utility with their secondary dark and ghost typings.

S/o to manu 11 for helping me come up with ideas, refine teams and testing throughout the whole season. I def wouldn't have been able to put up this record without your help. I also heard rumors of a team dump coming soon...

Summoning Atha Don Vascus Eggs Ax and anyone else who consistently played this meta to drop their teams and thoughts in this thread as well.

 

[manu 11]

Yo, well tpp is over who cares about finals without absols am I right so figured I might as well do a team dump even if I didn't play it. I did built quite a lot and test with tnm. Some teams are just bad but posting cause someone might find a fun set or two.

Week 1

Fighting riceman, the idea was to not autlose to TR and have anti-cheese poke. Basically the idea was to build around pex with a triage poke as HO tends to struggle vs triage. In the end TNM, didn't use any of that and relied on swampert av/gambit buzz to carry him.

https://pokepast.es/058d9dc45fa38be2

Those teams were all average at best honestly. First teams I build in months. Raichu-alola was a nice idea though.

Week 2

Honestly for this week I just build random shit i found fun and tried finding new sets as TNM had already made a team in week 1 that he wanted to use. (Spoiler alert, it had av swampert again)

https://pokepast.es/9f5469f293a0f039

Rediscovered Cobalion and found out that lefties deso chomp was incredibly good. Tried Steely spirit team too as TNM wanted to build around it but failed rather miserably.

Week 3

Fighting Ax, didn't really know what to expect. I found out Explosion Landorus was completely broken so I tried to build around it a lot but to no great result. In the end I felt like rebuilding a Gyarados team like in tpp 2 for nostalgia and TNM ended up using the second version of that team.

https://pokepast.es/ae53e351fae5dae8

The Gyarados/Cobalion/Weavile performed really well and proved once again that Gyarados is busted. Rune/Chans was pretty goated too.

The mew idea was to survive a hit from set up and transform to countersweep but never managed to make it work. Explosion Lando teams were all made in order to abuse the lack of steel pokes so that pokes that are blocked by it could just sweep.

Week 4

DESO CHOMP WEEK. Deso chomp was doing great in tests so TNM decided to use it... and he fought freaking ff corv, get destroyed lmao. Tried a lot of different shit during this week. Deso chomp, Octolock Gzap, SFLO kyurem, Regen Scarf Heatran.

https://pokepast.es/fdaf047f27707302

Nothing really great or good but lots of various idea that need to be explored further imo. SFLO kyurem can just destroy teams and scarf heatran was pretty good I feel in the meta at the time and Ax ended up using those later in tpp to great result (in a very good mu though gotta admit).

Week 6

Didn't build in week 5 at all cause I prefered to let TNM deal with his bromance. More seriously I was just busy irl and had no time.

This was going to be the hardest game of tpp vs two z. I was kinda expecting stall so I tried with explo lando mostly as it just allows to remove 1 poke and gives good opportunities for the rest of the team.

https://pokepast.es/08c830d21917ec42

Except triage lele/deso chomp team, all the teams performed very well in tests and Levicob team looked really good. In the end TNM decided not to go with levicob and went with a rather « weird » team at first glance but which actually worked really well surprisingly but kinda struggled in that game cause he is bad. Levicob kinda 6-0'd.

Week 7

Build random shit once again cause TNM wanted to use barra/kommo-o offense with zap/blade defense. It was imo very complicated as Barra/kommo-o lead to a strong SFLO kyurem weakness that couldn't really be salvaged. I tried building around it and also made a deso lando team which would have had a much better mu (not hard lmao) vs pap with dazzling weavile just getting a kill each time it got in.

https://pokepast.es/41d1a832813c941d

Week 8

Honestly at this point I just wanted to make sets I made earlier work in a team. Tnm wanted a Gyara team with offensive dragon type.

https://pokepast.es/d1a59ab1bb5c25b4

Honestly Gyara + dragon type offense was annoying and the kyurem weakness bothered me too much so i build one Gyara team and just made other shit. The last team actually did nicely in tests with explo lando and mglo weavile working nicely together.

Tiebreaker

TNM wanted to use doublade as it usually works very well against people who don't play staaab too often. He ended up using something very similar to my tpp 2 blade/kyurem team with scarf buzz. I actually persuaded him not to use a ff corv team that kinda won on preview, soz :(

https://pokepast.es/cbcb748a7b33c13e

Made one link with the "good" teams if you don't want to see all the shit i build : https://pokepast.es/812d988b48e0a923

VR thoughts :

Landorus-I A+ soon to be banned imo. Has access to op moves without much drawback. Can be mixed. Has a movepool that allows it to circumvent its potential walls.

Cinderace B+. Is to Desolate land what barra is to primordial sea. Good movepool with pyro ball/hjk/gunk shot allowing it to hits lots of things. Also has momentum with u-turn, prio with sucker punch and can always serve as fast hazards remover.

Volcanion B-. Can beat both weathers due to typing and weather ball, mglo can also pivot for free and spam surging strikes to bypass special walls.

Alakazam B. More speed than azelf that allows it to outspeed max speed regieleki with scarf. 10 more special attack for more damage. More limited in movepool without good pivot which is annoying. B- seems too low for something with those offensive stats and access to nplot.

Heatran A. A+ looks too high for heatran, it's great no doubt but it doesn't compare to other pokes in A+ imo. Especially with the amount of chansey and primsea zapdos around.

Xurk and urshifu should probs drop 1 rank each.

Remove mpull from heatran.

Abilities to add imo :
Volcanion, deso and primsea
Hydreigon, regenerator
Marowak-Alola, prankster
Landorus-I, aerilate
Cobalion, levitate

Conclusion :

Without playing tpp this was still pretty fun. Gotta thank absolposters and The Number Man for this. I would say staaab is rather fun right now. Mpull ban is sad but probs needed if we want to keep dnite/kyurem around. Cobalion and Runerigus literally reappeared and have dominated the last weeks of staaab while other pokes such as bulu literally dissappeared.

Zapdos has proved to be insane and close to mandatory on balance builds imo. Weathers are very important and maybe banning spout/erupt might change that. Surging strikes is a tough case. Feels incredibly op but at the same time it makes some pokes viable and i like abusing it on Gyarados. Lando is broken af and i can't really see it not getting banned down the line with sets like desolate land and aerilate explosion.

Kinda interested in what staaab council will decide to do in the future. Would be nice to get a silv test and see what it does. Banning op moves is also an option. I will just end by saying you should ban Kyurem tyvm.

PS : i got freaking ninja'ed by tnm, feels very sad

 

[Atha]

STAAAB is messed up and is bond to be. The reason TNM cruised through TPP is because he understands the tier better than anyone. I think he has a predictable building style that would be exploited in a pool of elite players, but it was sufficient here. Here are some of the teams I built/used. I don't remember the order nor the details of their making.


Magnet Pull + every pokemon that enjoys Corv/Steela/Tran/Cobalion being gone is a free win archetype right now since most people use Steela or at least one Steel type. The aim here is playing a 5v6 with bulky offense, which is a free win in a lot of scenarios. 3 priorities to avoid getting 6-0d by some random setup as much as possible. Team's not perfect.


This team aims to put maximum pressure on Chansey (or any special wall) by paralizing it with Heliolisk and then spamming Boomburst with Heliolisk and Noivern. Spdef Regen Ferro does very well in this tier. The team somewhat lacks speed but I find it very cool.


Technician Garchomp is ridiculous. Toxic on Ttar to poison Buzzwole for Chomp. Zarude is good at letting it in and provides passive recovery. Azelf provides fantastic speed control and pivoting. Only problem here is that all 3 Zapdos checks lose to it because fuck Zapdos.

Team
I used this against TNM. Noivern + Urshifu beats a good amount of his builds as long as he doesn't bring a water immunity that takes both Ice Punch and CC from Urshifu. Blissey because there's absolutely no reason to use Chansey when you have a Water and Fire immunity. Levitate Metagross is a nice feat that beats a handfull of annoying breakers as well as being a decently reliable rocker. Toxic Buzzwole helps Urshifu a lot. Scarf Fini is an insane glue. I lost because I played subpar, underrated Band Dnite's brokenness, and got a bit unlucky. I think I had a superior matchup so that game is my one regret of the tournament.


Very straight forward immunity spam bulky offense build. Typically the kind of builds that would get torn appart by TNM but that works against most people. Gets destroyed by Heliolisk but has good offensive counterplay.


Bounce Rune + AV Inci beats a good amount of the metagame already. MGLO Dnite isn't as stupid as Aerilate but it's more reliable in long games. Here it should probably be Aerilate though. I lost because my opponent played weird.
edit : I'm sorry WMAR but the only reason you won is because you made like 3 game losing plays that i didn't expect you to do. Losing like this is the worst.



You guys should really stop using Chansey as much, it's just very exploitable and doesn't effectively beat much. When facing someone that knows what he's doing you just get tricked or knocked and lose very quickly. You're also weak to hazards. Blissey,'s just better in most cases.


You can't be prepared for everything, it's impossible. The best way to go imo is spamming immunities and going for teams that lean offensively. I value immunity abilities in bulky offense a lot, which is why I've used stuff like Levitate Metagross or Water Absorb Buzzwole.


Should go

Ban Magnet Pull. Unhealthy, unfun, uncompetitive, broken.

Super agree with everything tnm and Manu said.