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i hate to be, that guy, as im all for discussing innovation but this one is kinda ridiculous. youre just using this for the sake of running something bad because its funny. there is mons with way better role compression that perform the niche youre claiming wailord has 10x better. if you want to use shit mons go ahead it can be fun when they work, but this isnt the place for that, the heat thread exists for a reason. at least post replays man. if you respond to this dont post 4 paragraphs calling me bad and actually respond with proper arguments and replays (you know who you are).
re: tapu bulu
tapu bulu is actually very underrated right now and i agree with almost everything the guy above posted. however i feel either sd or seed sets are better, being able to widdle down fat teams a lot better than av. bulu already has a solid enough defensive stat line and what youre trying to check for the most part does not require vest to check it. sd bulu is also very hard to switch into for bo teams (lo sd bulu at +2 does ~75 to the current corviknight spread lol). its counterplay mostly relies on offensive pressure, and i can only think of a small number of things that can safely switch into it thats not bopped by its coverage on a good read.
Ubers and OU are vastly different metagames. Performance in one has no effect on performance in the other. Very very rarely will a council look into unbanning an Ubers, but if they do, then it's for the sake of improving their metagame and not because of lackluster performance in another.
I'll kindly ask everyone to avoid discussing Pokemon in the Ubers tier here, especially discussion on unbanning them. Have a good rest of the day.
Thanks for someone who posted this stallbreaker Gengar set on RMT Forum, Its almost mandatory for me when created hazard stacking HO team paired with lead mew. Its ghost typing let it role for spinblocker (though rapid spin is rare and the main user is excadrill, lol), it also have perfect ghost + fighting coverage and nasty plot to double its special attack. Taunt is the key move for stallbreaking that can shut up blissey became useless because seismic toss cannot hit this ghost. The focus sash is preffered item because HO almost have 1 sash user and mew didn't need sash as max hp lead. It can win in 1vs1 scenario againts common spec dragapult at full hp.
Glad to see King's Rock being banned, finally, and hopefully Bright Powder, Sand Veil, and other uncompetitive bull that doesn't belong in the game follows suit.
Anyways, with King's Rock gone, people that want to use Cloyster still don't have to worry because Cloyster with LO is far more reliable than King's Rock, despite the powerful effect of flinching with 41%/10%.
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 254-300 (74.4 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 240-285 (69.9 - 83%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 310-370 (90.3 - 107.8%) -- approx. 50% chance to OHKO
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 275-330 (68.7 - 82.5%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 355-430 (88.7 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 270-320 (76.7 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 350-415 (99.4 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 320-380 (81.2 - 96.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 415-495 (105.3 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs Scarf
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 175-207 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 227-269 (86.9 - 103%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs Offensive
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 230-275 (71.2 - 85.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 300-355 (92.8 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 199-235 (66.1 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Regieleki: 259-305 (86 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
vs
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 290-345 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- approx. 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 375-450 (95.1 - 114.2%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
vs Scarf
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 278-330 (92.3 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 361-429 (119.9 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Imo, not only is LO just healthier for gameplay reasons, as KR encourages fishing for cheap flinches and a lot of things that Uncle Dane has said about RNG (while his video is in TF2, many of those core arguments apply here, namely bad habits and such), but it also unironically more viable imo. In many cases, the extra firepower means that you statistically are more likely to beat certain Pokemon with LO Cloyster over KR Cloyster, and can more reliably sweep earlier than with KR.
Rillaboom has an 18.7% chance to survive a LO Ice Shards, where as Rillaboom has a 90% chance to survive Ice Shards with KR due to flinching and will Grassy Glide your Cloyster to death.
Scizor, who may be U-turning, will faint half the time against +2 LO Cloyster while +2 KR Cloyster will only have a 41% chance to KO, and that's also if Scizor isn't using Bullet Punch. LO Cloyster can even OHKO Corviknight with Stealth Rocks up, which KR would otherwise not be able to.
I think you get the picture.
Of course, in a match up of Cloyster vs Toxapex, Cloyster would more likely win against Toxapex with KR, but that's a complete gamble. And I'm glad players aren't going to be encouraged to just gamble because 1 item will sometimes beat out 1 counter and you can win game super early due to a near 50/50 dice roll. The game should encourage newer players to play properly. Not setting up with a sweeper Turn 1, and then just spamming attacks that pays no attention to KO thresholds, what your sweeper can survive, speed tiers and the need to sometimes use priority, what moves that can stop your sweep like Haze, or even how much wasted potential you have using Stealth Rock and your plan involves them doing damage once per Pokemon. And I hope that new players start using LO Cloyster and not be ignoring Cloyster all together so that they can learn more about how much depth Pokemon can really have, just sometimes hindered by poorly implemented RNG.
Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 153 Atk / 103 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake/High Horsepower
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
Mamoswine has a great natural attack stat that lets it easily 2HKO Pex even without max atk,meaning that it can still pose an offensive threat even without Life Orb.103 Speed let’s it outspeed the standard Tran set and Earthquake it.The Av also allows mamo to switch into Tran in a pinch and survive two magma storms if they for some reason decide to run more speed. High horsepower is also an alternative if you want to use rilla on the same team.Finally ice shard lets it comfortable revenge kill Pult and other fast attackers once they have taken chip
possession (quiet) (Gengar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave/Focus Blast
probably like one of the best scarfers in the metagame. Trick+that speed tier is fantastic and the ability to remain a breaker vs fat is incredibly unique. its not even that hard to put on a team, people should really use this more.
Gzap, Blaziken, Gmolt, nasty colbur mew, scarf kyurem, and jirachi are also all decent imo.
Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
Hello everyone I wanted to talk about Nidoking’s place in the metagame right now and how I feel it’s in a good spot.
has recently dropped to Under Used and it makes sense why as the meta is becoming faster and stronger so Nidoking’s middling speed has left it to be revenge killed by many threats in the metagame such as ,, and many more fast offensive threats.This and the prevalence of more flashy breakers which are easier to slap on teams that are present in the current metagame has caused to get less usage and to drop to Under Used.
But I feel that this mon Is in a good spot right now in the current metagame and I want to explain why in this post.
might not seem like the best breaker at first but when you realize that it’s most common check has been seen much less often as well dropping in usage stats it seems to be in a fine spot.The most common Pokémon that are used to wall the common offensive threats in the metagame such ask ,,,,,,no speed and all hate facing it’s coverage or stabs.
has it’s flaws I listed a few above but one more huge flaw it has is that it’s prediction based(This problem is somewhat fixed by replacing a coverage move with substitute but it’s still quite a bit prediction based when using it). requires some decent prediction when it is used and can falter sometimes if the player using it can’t predict well enough.This is a large drawback but unlike the other breaker with this problem it’s less noticeable as the player’s prediction doesn’t have to be “completely spot on”.
I wanna talk briefly about the set can use. Can fulfill many different purposes the nature can be modest if the team you are using needs to outspeed specs kyurem but in my experience modest is preferred for the extra power it provides.It’s moves can vary vastly as it gets a lot of good options you can use superpower instead of using one of it’s coverage moves in order to hit blissey hard,substitute can also be used over a coverage move depending on the team your using in order to make nidoking less prediction based and to give it a middle ground between hitting 2 different mons the opponent can swap to if the Pokémon that is up against is threatened by it.Another option commonly seen is a substitute focus punch set with thunderbolt and ice beam in order to hit many threats to it while also being consistent with substitute and a way to hit blissey.
I want to showcase a team I built around a core of and as they are a quite decent core together as they cover each other’s checks.
Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Band
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Aqua Jet
Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
Nidoking has a lot more reason to run a modest nature now than it had before, which is very key for damage rolls on stuff like Toxapex and Corviknight and thus maintaining effectiveness in its breaker-of-Balance role. This alone makes it a lot better than when it was forced to run timid.
Furthermore, the decreased usage of bliss and slowking greatly helps its effectiveness, especially when it comes to move choices because you REALLY want flamethrower and ice beam alongside dual stab. In short, nidoking now has a much better time dealing damage to defensive cores, despite still being a bit prediction reliant.
However, its middling speed leaves it outsped by pretty much everything and, due to its lackluster bulk, that pretty much everything can threaten an ohko/severe damage. With surging strikes, triple axel and infiltrator pult everywhere, I wouldn't even run substitute and just keep full coverage which is better for what you want nidoking to do, in my opinion. nidoking basically forces you in the builder to have a solid defensive core that can switch into everything relevant and then give the momentum back to it because it's too frail and weak to common moves to switch in raw on its own. Against more offensive teams, nidoking realistically has 1-2 pokemon it can use to click buttons against and this makes it somewhat of a matchup fish + require a good offensive partner with good matchup vs opposing offense. Finally, nidoking has NO defensive utility other than clearing the rare tspikes, pivoting around volt switches and countering koko.
nidoking sounds great offensively but is threatened at every corner by everything faster than it in ou - which is like half the dex - and even slower because nido hates random, weak knock offs from mons it could otherwise switch into like clef. it requires specific and wide support in the builder to compensate for its flaws and is unreliable/bad in some matchups. However, the last sentence can be applied to a lot of mons below the A tier and I ultimately agree that it's slightly better now than before, mostly thanks to its most common defensive counterplay being less viable in the meta. deserves a try for sure.
That's my opinion on nidoking right now
This one is a bit late but I've been enjoying yache berry Garchomp as of late. Weavile's ice shard is one of the very few things that can instantly kill a Garchomp that has boosted both attack and speed. Yache berry completely turns the tables as long as you are careful with Garchomp's health. Works best if you have a nasty wall breaker than can deal with Landorus and another pokemon that can handle Heatran so you won't have to use Chomp for that role
This is the other one that I enjoy and one that I use when I am too lazy to build a proper team. It combines the power of specs with the ability to recover. Life orb isn't really that annoying because of roost and it makes thunderbolts actually sting. I slash u turn with toxic because u turn and life orb isn't exactly the best idea and I love poisoning a certain flying lion and watch it die a slow and painful death
pretty difficult to pivot around volcanion especially with how well it can punish teams like generic bulky offenses and forces some critical trades, especially on the slower spectrum; getting damage off on fini for a lategame cleaner (think ada weavile, np + taunt tornt and such) is huge. kinda stimulates aggressive play indirectly making it tougher to play around given its good coverage and can pressure the player
fits on your own generic bulky offenses such as this for example, likely to be quite flawed because heatran annoys + weavile is weavile. the main gameplan is as above to force damage on fini corv bulky offenses etc, good nuclear wallbreaker vs some fat teams too. credit to ipf for this good post on volcanion as well, you can make a case for b+ but its really opinion based. been seeing this very frequently in olt; you should give it a try
Good to see Kings Rock banned. It was often very frustrating as your dedicated (soft) checks / counters that could live off 1-2 Skill Link hits that got flinched by pure BS and also the opponent often relied too much on it too which hurts the overall skill level on the high ladder too.
Kartana is super relevant in the current meta. It disposes of every terrain setter quite easily with the new SpD set.
did you know: with 252SpD, Kartana is 64% better at taking special hits than it’s un-invested alternative?
meanwhile: investing 252 in attack gives a 15.8% power boost to its attacks verse the uninvested alternative. And in the current meta, you probably don’t need the extra firepower as much as the added utility.
a lot of special attackers usually just power through Kartana, even with resisted attacks if it’s STAB. The 64% spDef boost is a big deal
leaf blade is essential for stab, and usually sacred sword is needed so you can break past the metal birds (and ferro/Melmetal) once they’ve been softened a little. However knock off is overall good verse offensive teams if you have a way to get rid of all the metallic switch ins.
I tried a 19 attack IV with timid, but it doesn’t need the speed boosts, since teams generally check Kartana with slower threats. And the spread allows it to take a hit or two from koko/Weavile and sometimes Zeraora, whilst losing to dragapult and tornadus therian.
with the surge of Tapu fini and Tapu koko to the top of the usage charts, and a modest increase in Bulu and Lele. Specially defensive Kartana punches through many teams effortlessly. Pokémon that once forced it out with special attacks, find that they can not break through.
It’s defensive bulk allows it to deal with the odd rain, sandstorm or hail team, taking hits from setter Pokémon like pelliper, nine tails Allan, and most Tyranitar, whilst arctozolt can’t break it, and you can waste weather turns vs barraskewda and dracozolt
how to play this type of Kartana: generally a lot of special attackers, like scarf lele, koko, etc, won’t be scared to try a hit on Kartana as they believe they can ko. You pleasantly surprise them with anywhere from 2% to 50% of your HP left after taking a modest hit, and usuallly they don’t have many answers left! Make sure you soften up teams with knock offs before going for the SD after the relevant checks are within striking range (most checks need to be sub 60% before SD will take care of them)
it also helps that standard Weavile, landorus and even Garchomp that’s not packing fire attacks, cant break past it.
it also outspeeds urshifu and retains utility verse Weavile when healthy. It easily beats or sets up on landorus, especially with grassy terrain, which allows it to switch in on the most common Pokémon in OU and threaten SD/knock off
counterintuitive, but rillaboom is probably one of the top offensive partners. Due to their ability to draw in common targets, whilst Rillaboom offers passive healing and a better solution for Zeraora and sometimes dragapult (not tornadus therian tho)
This is a point of a game where only corviknight and Landorus have been softened to sub 60%, the rest of the team is healthy. Kartana proceeds to beat all 6 from the next turn.
Turn 20 & 21 - corviknight switch in is disposed off with the SD reveal followed by sacred sword
Turn 22 - Weavile knock does 50%
Turn 23 - Koko does 45% with thunderbolt
opponent has no more Pokémon to survive a +3 Kartana, and nothing outspeeds
I should mention fini terrain support allows Kartana to switch into the odd scald as well, increasing the list of Pokémon’s it checks.
Polteageist, pretty simple, its a ghost type shell smasher with a special attack of alakazam (minus 1), speed of cloyster and a respectable 60/114 Special defense (thats comparable to bronzong!) letting it live....
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Polteageist: 208-246 (79.6 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Polteageist: 194-230 (74.3 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Polteageist in Rain: 234-277 (89.6 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Polteageist: 220-259 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Polteageist: 216-255 (82.7 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yes, Metronome. ill get into it later.
this is an amazing late game sweeper that has pretty much almost 0 non blissey, non dark switchin. yes ferrothorn, corviknight, spdef clef, spdef fini and celesteela can survive a +2 shadow ball or +8 boosted stored powered but they are pokemon that get destroyed by Magnezone. with focus sash it can basically freely set up on almost anything not named melmetal and potentially sweep on the spot, this can also be used as a revenge killer vs something like a Barraskewda under rain. you set up shell smash on their liquidation, you now have a +2 +2 +4 mon with stored power!
i should also mention Polteageist DISMANTLES stall teams, its almost a free win, their only switchins are Blissey, Spdef Unaware Clef and Spdef Gastrodon (if no giga drain). and those 3 mons cant threaten polteageist other than a toxic, letting you set up in their face (Unaware clef gets beaten by stored power boosts) and potentially sweeping or winning on the spot.
this pairs amazingly well with tapu lele as it helps with its dark weakness and priority revenge killers (which really is like one of the only way to kill it) and also gives a huge boost with its psychic terrain for the stored power letting it grab the ohko on some mons such as
+2 252 SpA Polteageist Stored Power (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable in Psychic Terrain: 402-473 (102 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs
+2 252 SpA Polteageist Stored Power (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 309-364 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Now the main weakness is dark and priority, now Tapu lele is almost mandatory as a teammate so is a counter to both urshifu and weavile (like Helmet Corviknight, Scarf Lele or Raboot ) and another weakness is hazard and status, i suggest having a status absorber and a good and reliable removal in one like or
Now why do i have metronome over Giga Drain? Simple, Sucker Punch and BS Hax. giga drain realistically only hit max Krookodile and Gastro/Swampert who is still at 100% (which almost never happen) and Ttar takes almost nothing from a +2 Giga Drain and i have only had 1 game where Giga Draining a Ttar wouldve won me the game. Sucker punch users like Bisharp and CB Dragapult is more common making it safer to outplay with Metronome rather than Shell Smash because youre always threatening them with a potential KO or boost making them want to attack you directly sooner so its easier to read and punish with a shadow ball. Also the BS hax. you have no clue how many games ive want just BECAUSE of hax ONLY. Disarming voice on a hydreigon, Horn drill on a mandibuzz, close combat on a blissey and more, obviously this isnt its main point but ignoring the potential of a game winning hax of metronome is a mistake.
Heres an example of a replay where Metronome came in clutch with the hax
Howdy everyone, I want to talk about something that I've been a huge fan of since last month when I figured out that it was actually not terrible. It's one of the four weathers. It's the weather that's been getting a lot of hype recently, that's right, it's hail!
Hail in SS OU
=======
My thoughts on hail
So I think that Hail is the best weather in the metagame right now, that largely is because of how it fares with the rest of the metagame. That point in the end is why Sand has been falling of a cliff, with stuff like Hippowdon, Buzzwole, Urshifu-R, etc being so common rn none of its abusers actually make that much progress vs common teams structures, either its because they have a bad matchup the vast majority if not almost all of the common mons or metagame trends like SpDef Landorus-T and Hippowdon have been horrible for them. Hail doesn't really have this problem, it has one abuser most of the time, being Arctozolt, however it takes advantage of so many standard teams that it makes Hail a huge threat very often. But it wouldn't be good if it didn't have a good setter, which Alolan Ninetales because of the utility it provides to teams with its moves, pretty useful typing and great Speed.
Another reason why I love Hail so much is because it isn't really stuck to one formula like the other weathers are. With rain, you are usually going to be using the same 4/5 Pokemon all the time, and the 6th Pokemon, you can choose between 2 other abusers, you get the same thing with sun and sand but to a lesser extent in my opinion. With hail however, there quite a bit of customization since the only Pokemon you need are Alolan Ninetales, Arctozolt, and probably Landorus-T, that's it. The 4 other mons you can put depending on what you want. You can add Ferrothorn if you want Spikes to make Arctozolt more threatening, Tapu Lele if you don't want priority users like Scizor to screw you over, I've even added hyper offensive Pokemon on this team to take advantage of Alolan Nintales' Aurora Veil utility and make Arctozolt more threatening by weakening its checks for it late-game. There's a lot you can do with hail teams and that's a large reason why it's so much fun for me to use, out of all the other weathers its probably the hardest to build because of how varied it can be but its pretty rewarding.
So the first star is Alolan Ninetales and it's an amazing setter. It's got a pretty useful Speed tier, good defensive typing since it's able to check Weavile, one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier, and most importantly Aurora Veil. To me, Alolan Ninetales when it comes to hail is a Aurora Veil setter first and hail setter second because it's already going to provide a lot for its team from the very second it comes on the field, especially Arctozolt, but the amount Aurora Veil can do for these teams are huge. Aurora Veil is the biggest reason why hail can actually hit HO mons onto them. Aurora Veil isn't the only big thing it can do, it has a pretty huge support movepool, Encore, Hail, and especially Hypnosis are all very useful utility moves and can add a lot to a team. Alolan Ninetales is an excellent supporter because, even outside of hail, its utility provides a lot to a lot of Pokemon even outside of Arctozolt, whether its Aurora Veil making setup opportunities easier, to Hypnosis putting something important to sleep, to even just switching in and the hail damage chipping very important checks for its teammates, Alolan Ninetales adds a lot to hail teams and even offensive teams in general.
Now for the real star of the show, Arctozolt is pretty damn dangerous, its STAB combination is not only hard to deal with but the ones it uses are very high powered, meaning that despite Arctzolt's otherwise underwhelming offensive stats, switching into and pivoting around this Pokemon, especially when you combine it with the constant hail chip is extremely hard and Arctozolt will almost always put at least some sort of dent in your team. I also feel with Arctozolt it isn't limited to just one spread, the one I use allows it to outspeed Zeraora by one point but you don't have to use this spread necessarily, you could EV this to make Kartana drop to 1 Blizzard for example, or maybe even not give it a speed nature, Arctozolt isn't the most customizable thing out there but the possibilities are there. Arctozolt can also bypass its checks pretty easily, Gastrodon is a pretty hard check with Blizzard, however it isn't anymore with Freeze-Dry for example, Ferrothorn is annoying, however with hail damage + Low Kick, Ferrothorn goes down very easily. Once Arctozolt comes in, it will always put a dent on your team, whether it's weakening important things or getting multiple kills, Arctozolt under hail is a very dangerous threat.
======
Other Pokemon you can use
These are examples of Pokemon you could use on hail teams, since I feel hail is very customizable there's a LOT of Pokemon you can put on a hail team but these ones stuck out to me the most. Landorus-T is pretty great on these teams because of how it synergises with Arctozolt and Alolan Ninetales, Landorus-T can set up rocks for Arctozolt while also covering its Ground-type weakness, Ninetales on the other hand can cover Landorus-T's matchup against Weavile and act as a decent check to it. Kyurem is pretty good on hail because of how it can wear down Pokemon easily for both Arctozolt and other offensive Pokemon. Kyurem's power and coverage in combination with hail can easily chip down Pokemon that cannot deal with its Substitute, making both it and other Pokemon much more threatening. Garchomp is a strong abuser of Alolan Ninetales' Aurora Veil and in combination with hail can be very hard to check mid and late-game. Tornadus-T doesn't worry about Hail damage because of Regenerator and can remove hazards for Ninetales, who's extremely weak to hazards, not to mention Heat Wave is great for removing Ferrothorn and Magnezone for Arctozolt, making its STAB combination more threatening.
=====
Overall Hail is doing great, I find it to be the best weather in the tier right now, its a very strong form of offense that capitalises on standard teams we've been seeing very recently and it's something that you should definitely account for when building.
Anyway, speaking of Arctozolt's EV spreads, I definitely agree with Zneon that it can afford to run multiple spreads/natures effectively, depending on the rest of the team. I really like Dragon Claw's spread, which has enough SpA investment to OHKO Kart guaranteed and drop Dragapult after a round of rocks, while also being fast enough to outpace Scarf Fini which the 188 Spe set can't do reliably, as it ties with 208+ Fini and gets crept by the 252+ ones.
Also another thing I want to mention is some possible variety with Ninetales' set. Typically you'd see the Max HP variant with Veil + Hypnosis + Freeze-Dry/Moonblast + Filler, but Veil + NP Tales has been used to great success in the past as well. That was in the past though, I'm not too sure how useful it would be in the current climate where the extra HP is needed for checking Weavile, and Kyurem is frequently seen on Hail to Freeze-Dry past the Water/Grounds that would trouble Blizzard Zolt.
Howdy everyone, I want to talk about something that I've been a huge fan of since last month when I figured out that it was actually not terrible. It's one of the four weathers. It's the weather that's been getting a lot of hype recently, that's right, it's hail!
Hail in SS OU
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My thoughts on hail
So I think that Hail is the best weather in the metagame right now, that largely is because of how it fares with the rest of the metagame. That point in the end is why Sand has been falling of a cliff, with stuff like Hippowdon, Buzzwole, Urshifu-R, etc being so common rn none of its abusers actually make that much progress vs common teams structures, either its because they have a bad matchup the vast majority if not almost all of the common mons or metagame trends like SpDef Landorus-T and Hippowdon have been horrible for them. Hail doesn't really have this problem, it has one abuser most of the time, being Arctozolt, however it takes advantage of so many standard teams that it makes Hail a huge threat very often. But it wouldn't be good if it didn't have a good setter, which Alolan Ninetales because of the utility it provides to teams with its moves, pretty useful typing and great Speed.
Another reason why I love Hail so much is because it isn't really stuck to one formula like the other weathers are. With rain, you are usually going to be using the same 4/5 Pokemon all the time, and the 6th Pokemon, you can choose between 2 other abusers, you get the same thing with sun and sand but to a lesser extent in my opinion. With hail however, there quite a bit of customization since the only Pokemon you need are Alolan Ninetales, Arctozolt, and probably Landorus-T, that's it. The 4 other mons you can put depending on what you want. You can add Ferrothorn if you want Spikes to make Arctozolt more threatening, Tapu Lele if you don't want priority users like Scizor to screw you over, I've even added hyper offensive Pokemon on this team to take advantage of Alolan Nintales' Aurora Veil utility and make Arctozolt more threatening by weakening its checks for it late-game. There's a lot you can do with hail teams and that's a large reason why it's so much fun for me to use, out of all the other weathers its probably the hardest to build because of how varied it can be but its pretty rewarding.
So the first star is Alolan Ninetales and it's an amazing setter. It's got a pretty useful Speed tier, good defensive typing since it's able to check Weavile, one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier, and most importantly Aurora Veil. To me, Alolan Ninetales when it comes to hail is a Aurora Veil setter first and hail setter second because it's already going to provide a lot for its team from the very second it comes on the field, especially Arctozolt, but the amount Aurora Veil can do for these teams are huge. Aurora Veil is the biggest reason why hail can actually hit HO mons onto them. Aurora Veil isn't the only big thing it can do, it has a pretty huge support movepool, Encore, Hail, and especially Hypnosis are all very useful utility moves and can add a lot to a team. Alolan Ninetales is an excellent supporter because, even outside of hail, its utility provides a lot to a lot of Pokemon even outside of Arctozolt, whether its Aurora Veil making setup opportunities easier, to Hypnosis putting something important to sleep, to even just switching in and the hail damage chipping very important checks for its teammates, Alolan Ninetales adds a lot to hail teams and even offensive teams in general.
Now for the real star of the show, Arctozolt is pretty damn dangerous, its STAB combination is not only hard to deal with but the ones it uses are very high powered, meaning that despite Arctzolt's otherwise underwhelming offensive stats, switching into and pivoting around this Pokemon, especially when you combine it with the constant hail chip is extremely hard and Arctozolt will almost always put at least some sort of dent in your team. I also feel with Arctozolt it isn't limited to just one spread, the one I use allows it to outspeed Zeraora by one point but you don't have to use this spread necessarily, you could EV this to make Kartana drop to 1 Blizzard for example, or maybe even not give it a speed nature, Arctozolt isn't the most customizable thing out there but the possibilities are there. Arctozolt can also bypass its checks pretty easily, Gastrodon is a pretty hard check with Blizzard, however it isn't anymore with Freeze-Dry for example, Ferrothorn is annoying, however with hail damage + Low Kick, Ferrothorn goes down very easily. Once Arctozolt comes in, it will always put a dent on your team, whether it's weakening important things or getting multiple kills, Arctozolt under hail is a very dangerous threat.
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Other Pokemon you can use
These are examples of Pokemon you could use on hail teams, since I feel hail is very customizable there's a LOT of Pokemon you can put on a hail team but these ones stuck out to me the most. Landorus-T is pretty great on these teams because of how it synergises with Arctozolt and Alolan Ninetales, Landorus-T can set up rocks for Arctozolt while also covering its Ground-type weakness, Ninetales on the other hand can cover Landorus-T's matchup against Weavile and act as a decent check to it. Kyurem is pretty good on hail because of how it can wear down Pokemon easily for both Arctozolt and other offensive Pokemon. Kyurem's power and coverage in combination with hail can easily chip down Pokemon that cannot deal with its Substitute, making both it and other Pokemon much more threatening. Garchomp is a strong abuser of Alolan Ninetales' Aurora Veil and in combination with hail can be very hard to check mid and late-game. Tornadus-T doesn't worry about Hail damage because of Regenerator and can remove hazards for Ninetales, who's extremely weak to hazards, not to mention Heat Wave is great for removing Ferrothorn and Magnezone for Arctozolt, making its STAB combination more threatening.
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Overall Hail is doing great, I find it to be the best weather in the tier right now, its a very strong form of offense that capitalises on standard teams we've been seeing very recently and it's something that you should definitely account for when building.
DISCLAIMER: I am no Hail expert, in fact I'm yet to try this archetype in the first place. However, I want to gauge the opinion of more experienced players about Vanilluxe.
This iconic Gen 5 Pokémon has Snow Warning much like Ninetales, but offer something completely different: actual offensive presence. Ice is notoriously amazing offensively and, when coupled with self-summoned Hail chip, Vanilluxe's Blizzard is shockingly similar to Modest Kyurem's Ice Beam with Choice Specs, without the restrictions of an item slot. If you give Vanilluxe Choice Specs, then its Blizzard beats Kyurem's Ice Beam.
I gave it Never-Melt Ice because it uses only Ice type moves anyway and the ability to switch between Blizzard and Freeze Dry eases a lot of prediction and may catch people off guard since Vanilluxe is so obscure. Ice Shard is a decent revengekilling tool, with the given spread ensuring Garchomp dies to Ice Shard + one round of Stealth Rock / Hail chip. The speed conveniently creeps defensive Landorus-T which no longer runs speed for Modest Heatran. Alternatively, 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe can still be run to outspeed those Landorus-T as well, but you miss out on potentially crucial rolls against Garchomp and other Ice-weak Pokémon like Dragonite and Dragapult.
The last slot is for support usually. Aurora Veil is an incredible move that is beneficial in like 99% of scenarios, so being able to summon it at any point or when sacrificing itself is a great tool to have. Alternatively, Taunt prevents recovery and hazard setting/removal. Toxic is a bit inferior to me because Steel types are a thing and they could try to switch into Vanilluxe. Explosion is also a shout but I'd rather run Aurora Veil honestly.
My question is: has any of you tried Vanilluxe out to support Arctozolt instead of Ninetales? I think Hail teams can afford not running their specific weather rock on their weather setter if it provides good offensive presence (and defensive with Ice Shard as well) and just typically go off one abuser. Anyway, if Ice Rock is considered mandatory, then Alolan Ninetales is absolutely better due to better typing and support movepool and Vanilluxe really needing power-boosting items to make an impact, but I think more offensively oriented Arctozolt teams could make good use of Vanilluxe's enhanced offensive prowess compared to Ninetales.
Whether you agree or disagree, I'm curious about your opinion on this since Hail teams are super interesting to me and I'd love to try them out.
DISCLAIMER: I am no Hail expert, in fact I'm yet to try this archetype in the first place. However, I want to gauge the opinion of more experienced players about Vanilluxe.
This iconic Gen 5 Pokémon has Snow Warning much like Ninetales, but offer something completely different: actual offensive presence. Ice is notoriously amazing offensively and, when coupled with self-summoned Hail chip, Vanilluxe's Blizzard is shockingly similar to Modest Kyurem's Ice Beam with Choice Specs, without the restrictions of an item slot. If you give Vanilluxe Choice Specs, then its Blizzard beats Kyurem's Ice Beam.
I gave it Never-Melt Ice because it uses only Ice type moves anyway and the ability to switch between Blizzard and Freeze Dry eases a lot of prediction and may catch people off guard since Vanilluxe is so obscure. Ice Shard is a decent revengekilling tool, with the given spread ensuring Garchomp dies to Ice Shard + one round of Stealth Rock / Hail chip. The speed conveniently creeps defensive Landorus-T which no longer runs speed for Modest Heatran. Alternatively, 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe can still be run to outspeed those Landorus-T as well, but you miss out on potentially crucial rolls against Garchomp and other Ice-weak Pokémon like Dragonite and Dragapult.
The last slot is for support usually. Aurora Veil is an incredible move that is beneficial in like 99% of scenarios, so being able to summon it at any point or when sacrificing itself is a great tool to have. Alternatively, Taunt prevents recovery and hazard setting/removal. Toxic is a bit inferior to me because Steel types are a thing and they could try to switch into Vanilluxe. Explosion is also a shout but I'd rather run Aurora Veil honestly.
My question is: has any of you tried Vanilluxe out to support Arctozolt instead of Ninetales? I think Hail teams can afford not running their specific weather rock on their weather setter if it provides good offensive presence (and defensive with Ice Shard as well) and just typically go off one abuser. Anyway, if Ice Rock is considered mandatory, then Alolan Ninetales is absolutely better due to better typing and support movepool and Vanilluxe really needing power-boosting items to make an impact, but I think more offensively oriented Arctozolt teams could make good use of Vanilluxe's enhanced offensive prowess compared to Ninetales.
Whether you agree or disagree, I'm curious about your opinion on this since Hail teams are super interesting to me and I'd love to try them out.
why not both alolan ninetales *and* vanilluxe :)
feels like having two setters with different roles might be a cool idea
will be building a team with this later today
Hail still has a ton of trouble with weavile + blacephelon or weavile + urshifu. ninetales is poor weavile stop and without running something like thick fat miltank, you compromise your team to check them....especially since you have to run some fast stuff too because of how slow arctozolt is.
Hail still has a ton of trouble with weavile + blacephelon or weavile + urshifu. ninetales is poor weavile stop and without running something like thick fat miltank, you compromise your team to check them....especially since you have to run some fast stuff too because of how slow arctozolt is.
I think that's one of the biggest advantages of Hail as an archetype right now, compared to other weathers: The fact that it's extremely malleable compared to its fellow weathers. There isn't any Pokemon that's mandatory on Hail outside of your setter and Arctozolt, which leaves plenty of room to for things that can pressure the threats you mentioned above. Scarf Lele, for instance, works great as long as you play aggressively to keep Shifu and Weav from positioning themselves well, and it can easily RK both
tyrantrum
ok so this thing is a menace to slower teams, as it outspeeds most defensive mons and 2hkos all of them
Blood God Barney (Tyrantrum) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Outrage
- Close Combat
- Toxic
aight so basically this thing is hard to get in, but if it comes in on tran magma or a glowking it is almost guaranteed to get a kill.
the only thing that has even a chance to stop it is max hp max defense hippowdon with leftovers, which is what toxic is for, as it is absolutely going to lose if it gets toxiced
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
toxic will negate the leftovers on the switchin, calc does not show that though
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 220-259 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
as you can see even max defense buzzwole gets bodied by this monster
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 300-354 (63.2 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
melm also loses unless youre running max defense, which can take hits but doesnt have reliable recovery so it will die eventually
tyrantrum does struggle versus faster teams however, since a lot of common pokemon ohko it, but versus slower teams its probably one of the biggest threats in the game, if not THE biggest threat
I'm all for using random bullshit in OU but the OU rankings are only for things that are actually consistently good. You can use similar damage calcs for Rampardos or Braviary. Slap a Choice Band on pretty much anything with good STABs and 115+ base attack and you're probably going to 2HKO almost the entire tier.
Tyrantrum's issue is HORRIBLE defensive typing, bad speed, and surprisingly awful tankiness.
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyrantrum: 248-292 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
In fact I'm pretty sure nearly every single Pokemon in OU 1v1s this favorably, or at least takes a decent chunk out of it when Ty switches in. Yeah you can do a lot of damage or kill slower things but if you can't switch in and you're 100% prediction reliant you might as well just use Urshifu or even Zapdos Galar. Even Tyranitar or Bisharp trades some damage for the ability to actually switch in on things.
not many pokemon want to risk switching in on a sacred fire and the ones that do usually don't want to take a toxic. stomping tantrum is pretty much specifically for heatran and extreme speed is a strong priority move that picks off weakened opponents
i haven't tested it much but in all the games i've played so far entei has put in work. i only saved one replay so far which showcases entei destroying landorus and cleaning up end game
I'm all for using random bullshit in OU but the OU rankings are only for things that are actually consistently good. You can use similar damage calcs for Rampardos or Braviary. Slap a Choice Band on pretty much anything with good STABs and 115+ base attack and you're probably going to 2HKO almost the entire tier.
Tyrantrum's issue is HORRIBLE defensive typing, bad speed, and surprisingly awful tankiness.
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyrantrum: 248-292 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
In fact I'm pretty sure nearly every single Pokemon in OU 1v1s this favorably, or at least takes a decent chunk out of it when Ty switches in. Yeah you can do a lot of damage or kill slower things but if you can't switch in and you're 100% prediction reliant you might as well just use Urshifu or even Zapdos Galar. Even Tyranitar or Bisharp trades some damage for the ability to actually switch in on things.
yeah thats tyrant's main issue alongside head smash missing, but aside from that its still a massive threat if you manage to get it in, it can also be brought in by slow pivots and doubling out on stuff like for instance switching out a volc on a tran or blissey in order to bring in tyrantrum to get a kill, kinda prediction reliant, painfully bad speed tier with no priority, bad special bulk and defensive typing, but still does incredible damage and will almost 100% of the time kill something if you manage to get it in safely on one of the many pokemon that it threatens
Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 153 Atk / 103 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake/High Horsepower
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
Mamoswine has a great natural attack stat that lets it easily 2HKO Pex even without max atk,meaning that it can still pose an offensive threat even without Life Orb.103 Speed let’s it outspeed the standard Tran set and Earthquake it.The Av also allows mamo to switch into Tran in a pinch and survive two magma storms if they for some reason decide to run more speed. High horsepower is also an alternative if you want to use rilla on the same team.Finally ice shard lets it comfortable revenge kill Pult and other fast attackers once they have taken chip
I’ve been using many sets of Mamo from banded, rocks, life orb and even assault vest. It does massive damage on both sides of its typing since not much in the OU tier can take a combination of dual ice/ground STAB. It think it’s crazy this thing is not in the ou tier because it can do a lot. Stops Garchomp/DNite from sweping, threatens Heatrans and Landorus do u can get up rocks safely. It’s best friend is Magnezone since it traps and kills the things that normally would take Mamo’ hits ( Corv, Skarm, ferro) but even so banded sets can overwhelm them plus icicle crash flinches. Basically what I’m tryna say is that this mon is definitely underrated.
I'd like to share some fun sets that I've been using lately. I've been enjoying OU a fair bit more lately than I used to. It's been an absolute blast to play OU lately actually -
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Nincada: 46-54 (17.2 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Nincada: 62-73 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 64.8% chance to 4HKO
Don't you judge me, you wish you could yeet Landorus-T this good. On god, I was absolutely fried earlier and ended up using this bad boy and he actually ruled. Never underestimate just how much you can piss people off with a hyper-physically bulky Toxic LC wall in OU that also slaps Mud-Slap.
I have been having an absolute blast with this spooky boi. You'd be surprised how many people will just leave their Dragapult in on this guy expecting to outspeed and OHKO. Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse are fantastic in the current meta, Flamethrower and Flash Cannon are superb coverage for him as well. In addition, having an Earthquake immunity is always a plus.
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Spirit Break
- Sucker Punch
- Power Whip
Want something that will almost assure that you cripple at least two of your opponent's Pokemon if you play the prediction game right? Grimmsnarl is ya boi. Prankster Trick is incredible, Spirit Break is a fantastic STAB move that assures lowered Special Attack, Sucker Punch is fantastic STAB Priority, and Power Whip is to obliterate Swampert, Tapu Fini, the Slowtwins, and Tyranitar.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Protect
I know forgoing Toxic can be blah sometimes (never fear, Nincada will pick up the slack), but I've found that replacing it with Earth Power has actually been really helpful in some additional surprise utility against opposing Heatran and specific switch-ins. The rest is pretty typical bulky rocks magma tran.
Melmetal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Darkest Lariat
This thing never dies. Seriously, look at them thighs, puttin' TikTok to shame with those moon glutes. Just throw this thing in front of whatever thing you need bonked, and it'll get the damn bonk. Physical BoltBeam coverage, Darkest Lariat, and STAB Double Iron Bash, nothing escapes this thing other than Heatran.
has recently dropped to Under Used and it makes sense why as the meta is becoming faster and stronger so Nidoking’s middling speed has left it to be revenge killed by many threats in the metagame such as 
,
,
and many more fast offensive threats.This and the prevalence of more flashy breakers which are easier to slap on teams that are present in the current metagame has caused 
dropping in usage stats it seems to be in a fine spot.The most common Pokémon that are used to wall the common offensive threats in the metagame such ask 
,
,
,
all hate facing it’s coverage or stabs.
it’s less noticeable as the player’s prediction doesn’t have to be “completely spot on”.
Magnezone. with focus sash it can basically freely set up on almost anything not named melmetal and potentially sweep on the spot, this can also be used as a revenge killer vs something like a 
Barraskewda under rain. you set up shell smash on their liquidation, you now have a +2 +2 +4 mon with stored power!
Polteageist DISMANTLES stall teams, its almost a free win, their only switchins are Blissey, Spdef Unaware Clef and Spdef Gastrodon (if no giga drain). and those 3 mons cant threaten polteageist other than a toxic, letting you set up in their face (Unaware clef gets beaten by stored power boosts) and potentially sweeping or winning on the spot.
) and another weakness is hazard and status, i suggest having a status absorber and a good and reliable removal in one like 
tyrantrum 
