Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[Cratersmash]

Quagsire C>C+/B-
The Set
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Scald
- Recover

This is the standard Quag set,it performs quite well.Quag serves as a defensive switch-in for a lot of top threats while simultaneously beating them 1-on-1
Calcs
Quagsire beats literally every Ground in the tier
Scarf Lando
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 142-168 (36 - 42.6%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 146-174 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO
SpDef Lando
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 252 HP / 112+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 116-140 (30.3 - 36.6%) -- 63.7% chance to 3HKO
Lando is severely weakened and can be finished off by a teammate.The only set that doesn't lose is Band
252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 213-252 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 146-174 (45.7 - 54.5%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO
Winning against most sets of the most popular and splashable Mons in the tier sounds good
SD Chomp
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 99-117 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- 69.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Keep in mind that Quag can also Toxic and then stall Chomp out with Recover
Phys Wall Hippo
8 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 158-188 (37.6 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Hippo dies
Sand Excadrill
252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 135-160 (34.2 - 40.6%) -- 53.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 284-336 (78.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It dies
Other Matchups
CB Melmetal
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
CB Melmetal forces Quag out
Melm Sets Other than CB
252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 110-132 (27.9 - 33.5%) -- approx. 95.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
116 Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 92-108 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- approx. possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Other Melm sets just give Quag time to fish for a Scald Burn.
Moistshifu
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 235-277 (59.6 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire on a critical hit: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
These calcs might not look very good but if Shifu locks itself into Aqua Jet...
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 79-94 (20 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Shifu is forced to switch and the switch-in gets Poisoned
Heatran
252 SpA Offensive Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 139-164 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- 81.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Offensive Heatran: 360-424 (111.4 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Offensive Heatran dies.
0 SpA SpDef Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 114-135 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def SpDef Heatran: 360-424 (93.2 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Defensive Heatran also dies.
Zeraora
252+ Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 104-123 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- 14.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 240-284 (75.7 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zeraora gets killed.Quag doesn't even care if it gets a BU either because of Unaware
SD Bisharp
252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This calc isn't entirely accurate since it calcs every hit as 97.5 BP,but it doesn't matter because
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 188-224 (69.3 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Scizor
252+ Atk Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 93-110 (23.6 - 27.9%) -- 86.5% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 60+ Def Scizor: 81-96 (23.6 - 28%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Scizor can do nothing to it as Knock gets weaker after the first turn.It also can't run both +Atk and Def.If it gets Scald Burned than its really doing nothing.
Weavile
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 225-264 (57.1 - 67%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 135-159 (48 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Note that Weavile has to 1.Not be locked into another move prior to Quag switching in 2.Hit all 3 hits of Triple Axel both times and 3.not be running an SD set to beat Quag.
Victini
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 98-116 (24.8 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 147-173 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
V-Create goes from a nuke to a water baloon against Quag
Tornadus
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 226-267 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Torn has to hit Hurricane twice or more if it doesn't have Taunt and it gets Poisoned and Recover stalled.If it does have Taunt then it just switches out.
Speaking of switching out...
Partners

Zeraora:
Zeraora loves having Quagsire as a teammate as it removes Grounds,allowing it to spam Plasma Fists freely.Zeraora can also beat Kartana,Tapu Fini,and Dragapult,all big threats to Quagsire.
Zeraora set:
Zeraora @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Close Combat
- Plasma Fists
- Knock Off

Buzzwole:
Buzzwole acts as a great teammate to both the Zeraora above and Quagsire,as it stops Rilla and Kart(if they're not running Flying coverage)and can also aid in Ground killing duty with Ice Punch coverage.
Buzzwole Set:
Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs:
12 HP / 168 Atk / 144 Def / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Ice Punch

"It's Time."

Wait,stop.I know what you're thinking.Isn't Chansey used more on stall?Yes,but if you're feeling spicy,you could use Blissey with Quag to form a sturdy BO foundation.Blissey fits perfectly with PhysDef Quag,its monstrous special bulk complimenting Quag's good physical bulk.Overall,Bliss can do its thing,stopping special attackers with Quag to compliment it.It notably stops Specs Pult,Specs Koko,and other notable special attackers.
Bliss set:
Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport
Weaknesses
Quag loses to basically every Special Attacker in the tier,which is definitely a big hit to its viability,including resident jet plane Dragapult,Choice Specs Koko,Tapu Fini,Tapu Lele,Kyurem,and others.It also loses to Kart and Rilla,2 popular Mons.
Team
https://pokepast.es/523184e8771f3833 been using this spicy BO team
Conclusion
Quagsire is a threat to multiple high ranking,popular Mons but also loses to a good few.Still,its ability to pick off specific threats for partners to sweep makes me believe that it has a role(even outside of stall)and deserves a higher ranking than where it currently sits.

Noms I agree with:
C>B-:Flinchhax get rekt lol
B>C+,B>C+,and C+>C respectively:Rain has fallen off a lot and is just not that great anymore
A>A+:So many good sets:CM,WhirlMadness(what I call Whirlpool+Nature's Madness),Scarf,and others probably too.Being able to stop Urshifu-RS,Pult,and Weav is valuable and Fini definitely deserves A+.
B+>B/B-:Weav coming into the meta really sucks for Mandi.Fini being very good also hurts it.
B>B+:with Mandi dropping in viability I feel that the Ghosts are naturally going to be better.Blace in particular is annoying as a 3 year old to deal with.
A->B+:Outclassed as a Flying type,outclassed as an Electric type,can't Defog very well,overall just meh.
S>S-:With the meta adapting,Weav,Zera,SpDef Everything,Fini,and even Bliss have all become more popular and Pult has definitely dropped in viability.Still a top tier threat,just not as good as before.I basically agree with all the points in Ox's post.
C>C+:Hail has steadily become better and better and Arctozolt is the face of it.Kills stuff in Hail,cool sweeper.
B>B-:Worse CM Clef that's killed by Weav in most situations.
Noms I don't agree with:
B>B- :Gomi said basically everything I would say.
A+>A-:If Zera is going to drop its no further than A.If Zera gets a BU off its extremely threatening and rips apart teams.While no recovery does suck Zera is usaually getting something done in a match no matter what.

 

[Deleted User 465389]

Barraskewda’s utter reliance on rain to perform at all in the current OU metagame,

barraskewda isn’t exactly worthless out of rain. Rain definitely helps it, but it can still work when your rain turns end, and a base 136 speed is still really good outside of rain. Even without the rain boost, it’s attacks still pack a punch.

non rain calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 308-364 (87.5 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 258-306 (67.5 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 211-249 (52.7 - 62.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

edit: fixed a flawed calc

 

[gien]

barraskewda isn’t exactly worthless out of rain. Rain definitely helps it, but it can still work when your rain turns end, and a base 136 speed is still really good outside of rain. Even without the rain boost, it’s attacks still pack a punch.

non rain calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 308-364 (87.5 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 390-458 (102 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 211-249 (52.7 - 62.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The calcs are flawed as most of the sets you used are either uncommon or don't take into account stat drops such as Landorus' Intimidate. While Barraskewda can still certainly pick off weakened mons outside of rain it shouldn't ever be used outside of the archetype because of its frailty and mediocre breaking power, only getting STAB on Liquidation which doesn't hit as hard as you'd expect outside of rain.

offensive calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 165-195 (41.2 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 112+ Def Landorus-Therian: 258-306 (67.5 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and it of course can't come in on any attack because of its pitiful bulk, meaning that it relies on pivoting moves to get in safely in the first place

random defensive calcs

252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Barraskewda: 220-261 (83.6 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Barraskewda: 267-315 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Barraskewda: 141-166 (53.6 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Talpr0ne]

CB Melm
252+ Atk Choice Band Melmetal Superpower over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 309-364 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- not a KO

This calc is wrong, Unaware will ignore the Superpower attack drop. A Choice Band Superpower does [46.9 - 55.3%] which means Melmetal has a decent chance to 2HKO especially if rocks are up. Of course it means that you have a Melmetal locked into Superpower, but it also means Quagsire is not a very reliable switch and is forced out after a single band Superpower, it can't stall it out.

 

[Cratersmash]

Did not know,thought Unaware only ignored positive stat changes

 

[pulsar512b]

I also thought that unaware only ignored positive stat changes
I checked on SD - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1373622087
(Of course, if possible, someone should check on cart)

 

[Ruft]

Yes, that is how Unaware works and has always worked. This thread is not the place to test mechanics, please stay on topic.

 

[Walletinspector62]

Here to share my two cents that no one asked for:

Rises:

A -> A+
Tapu Finis ability to compress so many roles into one slot makes it really easy to fit into teams. It’s ability to check top tier threats such as Weavile, Urshifu and especially Pult while also being able to run options like knock and defog is incredibly valuable rn, and it can also run offensive sets like scarf and taunt CM.

A- -> A
This might be a little controversial, but I believe Buzzwole is incredible. The ability to sit on every physical attacker in the tier bar Wingbeat Dragonite (Hawlucha is bad) makes it so easy to just slap it on a team. It also naturally forms good defensive cores with common sp. def mons like Landorus-T and Tapu Fini. The longevity in roost really helps it too. This mon definitely has its issues, and can be deadweight in some mus, but I believe it’s strengths outweigh its weaknesses.

B+ -> A-
So, uh, what switches into this? Choice Band sets really appreciate Lando switching to Sp. Def and Buzzwoles rise to prominence, as it feeds on both. Most mons that want to come in on V Create are either destroyed by Bolt strike or crippled by Trick. Stealth Rocks are annoying, but there are plenty of good removal options right now. Boots is also pretty good right now, with Victini naturally being able to check Tapu Lele and Heatran and being able to spread burns with Blue Flare and Scorching Sands. Overrall, I think Victini needs a little bump up.

B+ -> A-
Washtom has seen increased usage as of late, and it’s pretty easy to see why. It’s ability to spam Volt Switch makes it incredibly annoying to deal with. Hydro Pump and Will-O-Wisp cripple the ground types that want to come in to stuff out the Volt Switch, which is just classic Washtom at this point. It also has some good defensive utility by checking mons such as Lando and Dnite and being able to effectively run Defog. What really makes it A- for me is it’s ability to form great pivot cores with the likes of Pult and Lando, and with Boots it’s incredibly difficult to wear down, kind of like Zeraora.

B -> B+
With the fall of Mandibuzz leaving the tier completely barren of ghost resists, more offensive ghosts are seeing usage. Aegislashs ability to come in on basically anything that isn’t doing super effective damage, including offensive behemoths such as Tapu Lele and Kyurem, then threaten the opposing team with a boosted Ghost stab makes it very potent. It also provides your team with another offensive answer to Pult thanks to Shadow Sneak. Blacephalon just straight up lacks defensive counterplay at all. Specs Ghost and Fire coverage destroys everything bar Blissey and TTar,who gets Tricked. Blacephalon is held back by the fact that its super frail and easy to revenge kill, which the Scarf set aims to alleviate. It still struggles with offensive staples such as Urshifu and Rillaboom, but i think it’s ability to claim a kill pretty much every time it comes in makes it worthy of B+.

C -> B+
I’m a huge Cloyster advocate, and I’m glad it’s finally getting the recognition it deserves. This monster can just drop teams with a little luck. Very little can deal with a Cloyster at +2, but with KR it can do some crazy things, such as muscle past Melmetal with two flinches. Also Ice Shard flinches are funny af. Ban KR.

Drops:

A+ -> A
This one is definitely gonna be my most controversial nom, but hear me out. I by no means think Zera is bad, but I don’t think it’s on the same level as most of the others in A+. My main problem with Zera is the ground types that hard wall it. And yes, Zera can absolutely outlast them in a fight, but most of the time if your going to knock or toxic the ground type on the switch, the ground type has some way of taking advantage of the free turn you provide. Lando can U turn, Hippo can Toxic, Chomp can Swords Dance, even Swamp can Flip Turn. Also, it takes like five times of lando switching into Zera knock+rocks+toxic for it to die, and if your letting Zera in that many times for free then that’s kind of on you as a player. Zeras that lack CC also get bodied by Ferro. In short, I think Grounds are way too common for Zera to be ranked A+, and I think A would suit it better. Feel free to tear me apart, I’m all for hearing why I’m wrong about this.

A- -> B+
What does Zapdos even check anymore? Zapdos just gets outdone in every category by other mons in the tier. Want a Defogger that can sustain itself with roost? Just run Corv. Want a mon that can cripple offensive threats just by making contact with it? Run Rocky Helmet anything, you don’t have to rely on a 30 percent chance. Furthermore, this mon hates knock off, and now that Lando runs Sp.Def there’s a Zapdos check on most teams.

A- -> B+
This mon is good, l just think it’s kind of hard to fit on teams when Corv is just so much better. Skarmory feels super counterintuitive to me, cause it’s a metal bird that often doesn’t run defog. This means that if you aren’t running a hazard stack team, you probably need another form of hazard removal. If you are running Defog on Skarm, then your just getting rid of all of the spikes you’re setting. Even on hazard stack teams your better off just going with Mew for spikes. It’s just super awkward IMO.

 

[TailGlowVM]

View attachment 357326 A- -> B+
This mon is good, l just think it’s kind of hard to fit on teams when Corv is just so much better. Skarmory feels super counterintuitive to me, cause it’s a metal bird that often doesn’t run defog. This means that if you aren’t running a hazard stack team, you probably need another form of hazard removal. If you are running Defog on Skarm, then your just getting rid of all of the spikes you’re setting. Even on hazard stack teams your better off just going with Mew for spikes. It’s just super awkward IMO.

I agree with most of your nominations, but Skarmory is absolutely not outclassed by Corviknight. As well as Spikes, Skarmory isn't obliged to use mixed defences, meaning it takes physical hits quite a bit better than standard Corviknight, and it is much less easy to overwhelm:

252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off vs 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off vs 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 190-225 (47.5 - 56.2%)

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 244-289 (61 - 72.2%)

Skarmory also has higher base Speed, which mostly importantly means it can outspeed Magnezone should its team require it without taking away ridiculous amounts of bulk, and Toxic to be able to threaten Pokemon Corviknight is usually unable to directly pressure like Landorus-T and Zapdos, and it has more room to run Iron Defense to threaten Pokemon that could just set up on Corviknight without the correct coverage move like Bisharp or Landorus-T. While I agree that Corviknight is easier to fit on teams, they have almost completely different purposes and are almost never interchangeable. Competition with Mew is probably a better comparison, but Mew is a reliable check to what offensive Pokemon exactly? (Kyurem and Tapu Lele have a chance to 2HKO with a Specs attack followed by an attack after getting Knocked, for example.) Mew is only considered to have a good defensive presence relative to the amount of utility it offers, whereas Skarmory checks pretty much every physical attacker except Zeraora and Victini. I think Skarmory's place in A- is correct given the defensive value it provides to bulkier teams and hazard stack.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

C-> B-

This has started to see a lot of usage due to king's rock and skill link having ~40% chance to flinch and is able to break past its checks easily especially with paralysis support and can set up on most pokemon like scarf landorus-t locked into earthquake, mandibuzz, dragonite, excadrill, garchomp, slowking. After a shell smash most awnsers rely on not getting flinched like rotom-wash, toxapex, slowbro, tapu fini, and ferrothorn. It still needs a lot of team support and is reliant on its item to sweep, but when it sets up it is really hard to stop.

B -> B-

This pokemon just does not do much, all it does it set up stealth rocks, and pivot, which is done by landorus-t also which provides much more utility outside of it with knock off and intimidate. It gets worn down so easily due to being so easily to knock off, being grounded which means its vulnurable to stuff such as spikes and toxic spikes, and is weaker meaning toxapex, and blissey can stay in on it and spam its recovery moves and toxic.

 

[Scarfire]

A -> A+

This mon has seen a ton of usage before and now even more during OLT, and while it obviously was never "underrated", its level of power seems to be getting acknowledged a lot more. It saw use with both its choice sets (mostly band), often on the team styles running glowking/weavile/corv, and was also spammed a lot with SD variants on pretty standard offences w/dnite lando zone. These are nothing new, however during the later weeks of WCOP and even now on OLT ladder many people witnessed SD variants using Synthesis for longevity or the more common tech in Aerial Ace to remove its one and only "counter" we know of currently in buzzwole, and as of late Timid Kart HO's have been insanely difficult to beat on ladder with usual bulky offence builds, which tend to be pretty unprepared. SD synthesis, classic SD three attacks, SD aerial ace and banded all were pretty hard to counter defensively, and usually you were left to outplay them offensively, however with the slow rise of Timid Kart even that can be hard to do, making Kart one of the most formidable mons in the tier currently and I think easily fits in A+ over a lot of the mons currently in that list.

 

[Da stall masta 999]

I did make some posts before at the beginning of when this was updated but they weren’t very good and the meta game wasn’t as developed. Now I’m going to explain every detail for right now and I’m going to share whether I agree or disagree with some of the recent noms.

-A -> B+
Although this Pokémon is very versatile, you have physical menaces being spammed like Urshifu-R, Weavile, Buzzwole, and Zeraora. This makes it very difficult for Blissey to get any breathing room at all when you’re using it. Also, you can’t take this thing in directly for almost all special attackers. Tapu Lele uses psyshock. Heatran kills it if not weakened. Kyurem kills it with Focus Blast. Dragapult clicks U-Turn. Fini traps it or locks it into 1 move. It’s so bad now that BlissCorvPexClef isn’t the meta stall core now. It’s ClefGroundSkarmPex

A+ -> S-
The reasoning why Clefable didn’t rise before was because it fell some votes short and there’s things like Melmetal on the rise. I think now it can rise because it gives good wish support to strong balances, it offers an Aromatherapy user, and it can run CM. Along with hazards and some other support, CM Magic Guard Clef is pretty good right now and nice for pushing through fat. And of course, it still has unaware fairy coverage that stops sweepers in their tracks.

S -> S-
Dragapult is a good Pokemon since it’s fast, a ghost type, and has u-turn, but it’s easier to manage these days. Many teams have at least 1 mon that can live a few specs shadow balls and there‘s offensive pressure that takes care of it, (Weavile, Zeraora, Bisharp, Hydregion, Kyurem, Kartana) and defensive checks (Ferrothorn, Clefable, Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Heatran). It was explained by some people on why it shouldn’t drop but I don’t think it should drop by a lot. Just a bit less consistent than before.

A+ -> A
Explained before. With Weavile, Urshifu-R, Rillaboom, Tapu Fini, and Landorus being spammed on the ladder, there’s very little breathing room for this Pokemon. Even if it just gets a free SD for some reason many teams have ways where they can survive and kill, status, and straight up outspeed and kill this Pokemon.

Other people’s noms I agree with

A -> A+
I agree with this nom because Tornadus is a good way of hazard removal and it fits many teams. It’s a good pivot, it has knock off, and NP taunt is the new big stall threat. Heat wave has also been getting some usage on this Pokémon and it puts pressure on Corviknight and Ferrothorn.

B -> B-
It doesn’t fit many teams and it dies very easily. It’s chipped by hazards, dies as soon as it gets toxiced, and doesn’t do anything else besides being a ground pivot. Physical attackers wear it out, and there’s better options like Garchomp, Landorus, and Hippowdon.

B+ -> B
Agreed because every rocker now runs toxic and the removal isn’t reliable. Its interest as a ghost resist for Dragapult is fading off because Pult is easier to handle now. It’s less convenient than before.

C -> B-
It cheeses past its checks with kings rock. Once setup your opponent can only hope to not get flinched which is about 41%. Rillaboom is falling so it isn’t as big of a threat. With its high defense it can set up on many different Pokémon as said before by Hydregionthechild.

C -> C+
Lots of calcs from cratersmash and it’s definetly better than C tier. It beats many physical attackers with max defense and functions as a setup immune Hippowdon with max spdef. It’s the reason why I stopped using hyper offense.

C -> C+
Sun is really good because of the sweepers/breakers you can pair with it. Venusaur giga drain weather ball earth power has 0 switch ins. Victini is pretty good on it too with boosted V-creates.

Other people’s noms I disagree with

A -> A+
I think Kartana is fine where it is. Aerial ace is so dumb on this mon and it barely gets past its checks this way besides Buzzwole, and you lose some coverage. Dnite and Corviknight are being spammed. Tornadus-T is running heat wave. Choice Scarf isn't the best having it locked on 1 move. Under future sight it can break pretty good but it’s not phenomenal. Even future sight + Choice band can’t beat Corviknight. Special attacks give it little breathing room. The SD sets are strong but vengekilled and outsped. Even with -Atk it can die by things like Landorus and Corviknight.

A+ -> A
Slowking?? Slowking is a fantastic pivot and future sight works with so many mons allowing them to get past their checks. They include Urshifu-R, Weavile, Rillaboom, Kartana, and many more. It can switch into Tapu Lele and other Pokémon just setting future sight in front of them for one of its breakers. Teleport gives effective momentum and status doesn’t bother it too much because it has regenerator.

C -> UR
I actually think Regieleki should rise if it’s going to move. I think we were a little too harsh on it. Specs rising voltage under e terrain one shots everyone. The ground types can be overloaded and weakened in the process. Don‘t underestimate anicent power or swift. They can be used to kill a Landorus or something if they are low.

A- -> B+
Magnezone pairs nicely with a variety of mons, even if the only thing it does is trap steels. Melmetal, Rillaboom, Kartana, and others all appreciate Magnezone working with them. Teams are more reliant on Corviknight than ever so it shouldn’t drop and go with the B+ Pokémon. Banded Melmetal needs to watch out for this being locked on double iron bash.

I don’t really want to make a comment on anything else like Aegis, Blace, Pelipper, and Victini. I need to see more of Blace and Aegis being used and I’m going back and forth on Victini. Rain hasn’t completely fallen off and Pelipper Skewda is being splashed on teams all of a sudden. Hopefully ppl understand my reasoning behind these noms and share their thoughts too. :

 

[Gomi]

A+>A-

Spoiler

its defensive utility in the current metagame is incredibly limited and fairly eh even within its little niche. Heatran can toxic it and win pretty easily long term, especially if its knocked (which it will be because of the pokemon it wants to abuse for momentum) and Tapu lele runs modest and/or tbolt so often that using it as a scout can get a liiittle uncomfortable, as you attempt to juggle using its healthpool for offensive momentum (fsporting) and defensively handling what you put it on your team for. This creates this weird building dynamic where slowking so often feels like a Gluemon that demands fairly noticable support in its own right, including pretty sturdy backup checks, really good prep for the pokemon that abuse it hard for offensive openings, and possibly even stuff like Heal bell because its just such a bad check to everything while statused.

in an actual game, this tends to translate negatively as well because Slowking builds tend to lose to alot of pokemon long term whilst simultaneously demanding free turns fairly frequently due to attempting to build around abusing the reason why you even use Slowking, Teleport+Fsight. There's the more obvious ones, like Weavile and Dragapult, but even beyond that, you have pokemon like Urshifu Rapid, utility Fini, Electrics, Tornadus-Therian, and even more niche picks like Gapdos abusing Slowking's fairly short list of effective defensive utility and general passivity in comparison to Fini and Toxapex. to make matters even worse, Slowking pretty much always ends up getting knocked off due to attempting to gain momentum vs Clefable, Tapu Fini, and Pex, which allows rocks to really dig into its ability to effectively maintain offensive momentum, as its constantly slacking off and p much never getting to FS. good example game for what ive been talking about here from wcop finals

This is not to say slowking is suddenly unviable, this is just to say that Slowking is currently overpressured in this metagame and has an unfortunate position of wanting to have tons of free turns to do what it wants to whilst frequently being forced to succumb to really crippling chip like Toxic and Knock, and allowing alot of really scary pokemon to abuse its general lack of punishment beyond scald. Granted, in response to this, there has been a rise in unorthodox slowking moveslots such as Flame and Twave, in order to annoy certain pains for your team that slowking with its basic 4 moves would usually open up fairly freely, But this tends to kinda cause its own issues and doesn't get to the root of the problem entirely.

tl;dr drop the thing maybe idk
srry if this was wordy, i felt like explaining a bit more would help w/ getting my point across.

 

[agslash23]

A- -> A

Scizor is a Pokemon that deserves to rise to A. It provides role compression such as priority, Knock-Off, slow pivoting, setup sweeper all in 1 slot.
Further, it can check many top tier threats wallbreakers as Kyurem, Tapu Lele, Rillaboom, Weavile, Melmetal all in 1 slot. These two factors mean that using Scizor in your team can free up a slot or two for other Pokemon, a factor that can drive up the viability of a Pokemon in itself (Looking at you Lando). It is versatile enough that it can go either Physically Defensive or Specially Defensive based on team needs - the former helps it deal with Kartana and SD Weavile much better, while the latter helps it check Kyurem multiple times in a match. It usually runs mixed defenses to check as many things as possible. Moreover, it can lure and attempt to beat switchins like Toxapex and Heatran using Sand Tomb, thus opening up the game for partners like Volcarona who appreciates both being gone. Finally, it can also run a pure offensive set on Hyper Offense teams, using Bullet Punch to sweep unprepared teams.

 

[Gibbybeef]

I feel kyurem should be A+ tier due to its good stab in specs boosted ice beam, freeze dry, and draco meteor to break walls, and coverage like focus blast and earth power for switch ins like heatran, generally should have draco with freeze dry for water, and ice beam for more damage with focus blast to deal with balloon heatran.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 330-390 (85.4 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

B -> B-

These pokemon just struggle in this metagame, with dragapult, urshifu-r, and weavile being everywhere reuniclus struggles to set up or switch in, pokemon that it would like to set up on like ferrothorn, slowking, clefable, blissey, and other defensive pokemon just have ways to get around it, such as knock off, teleport, or just status it with thunder wave to make it easier to take advantage off or force out due to being 50% slower and may not be able to move. It is also not the strongest pokemon without a boost especially without a life orb and has a lot of weaknesses in this meta such as against dragapult, weavile, bisharp, taunt, and powerfull wallbreakers such as specs kyurem ice beam, kartana's leaf blade, tapu lele's moonblast, choice banded urshifu-r surging strikes just pressure it to much to be able to do much.

Hawlucha... its really only used on screens hyper offense, there its just worse than dragonite because its less bulky, reliant on koko and terrain to be up which can easily be cancelled by the other good terrain users like tapu lele, tapu bulu, rillaboom, and tapu fini. It also is just much much frailer compared to dragonite even behind screens and is easily stopped by common pokemon like brave bird corviknight, rocky helmet/baneful bunker toxapex, zapdos, and dragonite due to dual wingbeat or ice beam. It is an all or nothing pokemon with no defensive utility that dragonite cannot do better, it is really weak without an SD and fails to confirm many kills such as heatran, zeraora, tapu lele, and even tornadus-t.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite through Light Screen: 116-137 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hawlucha through Light Screen: 337-397 (113.4 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[JTD783]

I've been seeing a lot more Trick Room than usual, especially on high ladder. Top players seem to be getting solid results with it despite Trick Room traditionally being considered gimmicky. I think the playstyle's recent success justifies its most prominent setters and abusers, such as Cresselia, Porygon2, Alolan Marowak, Conkeldurr, and Stakataka, to move up to C+. They could arguably be higher but I think C+ is appropriate since their success may simply be a short-term trend, especially as the high ladder adapts to fix their poor Trick Room matchups.

 

[cheru]

I would like to recommend that there be discussion points for the next VR update, similar to how it is in UU. This would allow us to get some insight on what the VR thinks and we agree or disagree on their nominations and spark more discussion.

EXAMPLE:

from A to A+: list reasoning for why here

 

[Finchinator]

I would like to recommend that there discussion points for the next VR update, similar to how it is in UU. This would allow us to get some insight on what the VR thinks and we agree or disagree on the nominations.

EXAMPLE:

from A to A+: list reasoning for why here

If you have suggestions, PM me (and the other moderators if you wish). I greatly appreciate constructive advice and criticism, but this thread is open specifically to nominations and discussions -- which tend to serve the same purpose as some discussion points. Best to not derail the thread if people start flooding with discussion over potential additions or changes. Not saying that is your intent, but saying if we allow some, then the floodgates open.

 

[Gomi]

B -> B-

These pokemon just struggle in this metagame, with dragapult, urshifu-r, and weavile being everywhere reuniclus struggles to set up or switch in, pokemon that it would like to set up on like ferrothorn, slowking, clefable, blissey, and other defensive pokemon just have ways to get around it, such as knock off, teleport, or just status it with thunder wave to make it easier to take advantage off or force out due to being 50% slower and may not be able to move. It is also not the strongest pokemon without a boost especially without a life orb and has a lot of weaknesses in this meta such as against dragapult, weavile, bisharp, taunt, and powerfull wallbreakers such as specs kyurem ice beam, kartana's leaf blade, tapu lele's moonblast, choice banded urshifu-r surging strikes just pressure it to much to be able to do much.

Hawlucha... its really only used on screens hyper offense, there its just worse than dragonite because its less bulky, reliant on koko and terrain to be up which can easily be cancelled by the other good terrain users like tapu lele, tapu bulu, rillaboom, and tapu fini. It also is just much much frailer compared to dragonite even behind screens and is easily stopped by common pokemon like brave bird corviknight, rocky helmet/baneful bunker toxapex, zapdos, and dragonite due to dual wingbeat or ice beam. It is an all or nothing pokemon with no defensive utility that dragonite cannot do better, it is really weak without an SD and fails to confirm many kills such as heatran, zeraora, tapu lele, and even tornadus-t.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite through Light Screen: 116-137 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hawlucha through Light Screen: 337-397 (113.4 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

While i understand the reuni drop since its usually just worse than CM clefable without a lot of care in the builder, I strongly disagree with nomming down Hawlucha.

Hawlucha is not exclusive to screens HO, it can fit on pretty every every viable kind, including offenses featuring scarf fini+AV melm. Stating its a worse version of dragonite is also somewhat nonsensical when one of the best teammates for Dragonite is hawlucha, given they gang up on one another's counterplay very well bar unaware clef (which u can handle with other mons), and even beyond that, being immune to ditto shenadigans and more easily bypassing birds due to Sedge+stab CC whilst not immediately dying to ice shard is pretty huge. It isn't reliant on Koko at all, it works with every terrain setter just fine.

is easily stopped by common pokemon like brave bird corviknight, rocky helmet/baneful bunker toxapex, zapdos, and dragonite due to dual wingbeat or ice beam.

Zapdos and dragonite die to stone edge after easy to achieve chip damage, Toxapex needs toxic or scald or its just gonna lose to getting spammed down by sd>acro>acro>sd mindgames and the former loses to Sub/Taunt, Corviknight is usually heavily pressured by HO and it's incredibly easy to chip the mon for 30% so Hawl can brute force. Also note how Zapdos, Dragonite, Corviknight, and even ones you didnt list like Clef and Fini are completely at the mercy of the Hawl seed at hand, because otherwise they will fail to ohko and get 2hko'd. Just use Hawl mid or late game when these pokemon are reasonably chipped, as is generally intended.

It is an all or nothing pokemon with no defensive utility that dragonite cannot do better, it is really weak without an SD and fails to confirm many kills such as heatran, zeraora, tapu lele, and even tornadus-t.

Faulty dragonite comparison again, and why are you not SDing with Hawlucha unless you just flat out dont need to? its one of the easiest pokemon in the tier to attain set up with. Saying it has no defensive utility is incredibly wrong, Hawlucha is a great emergency button in HO v HO mus and provides a pretty solid way to force alot of chip onto weather builds that tend to harass offenses Hawl fits on.

Frankly a lot of this post feels like its centered on the belief dragonite is somehow objectively better and Hawl has no place when that's just not the case, I'd highly reccomend you experiment with this pokemon on HOs more if you view it this linearly.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Frankly a lot of this post feels like its centered on the belief dragonite is somehow objectively better and Hawl has no place when that's just not the case, I'd highly reccomend you experiment with this pokemon on HOs more if you view it this linearly.

I have used hawl in the past, feels like an all or nothing pokemon, being forced to keep terrain up just in case koko or something like rillaboom dies to early and is forced to come in. Like many teams you can just keep your check to hawl easily healthy and its only good versus very offensive based teams. Toxapex runs scald 50% of the time, toxic 25% of the time, more than likely you will see one of those 2 crippling lucha, and especially helmet will pressure it even further which is ran on 20% of pexes. Corviknight's most common builds are max def, i doubt you are going to force chip on corviknight especially if its their one lucha check which they should be aware to keep healthy. Lucha is not able to run all the moves anyway, so you are either missing out on dnite, zapdos, or lacking sub/taunt to be safe against status and moves such as roar, whirlwind and dragon tail. Hawlucha cant really do everything and usually falls short on KO's a lot, like clefable, corviknight, zapdos, dragonite, etc

 

[Gomi]

I have used hawl in the past, feels like an all or nothing pokemon, being forced to keep terrain up just in case koko or something like rillaboom dies to early and is forced to come in. Like many teams you can just keep your check to hawl easily healthy and its only good versus very offensive based teams. Toxapex runs scald 50% of the time, toxic 25% of the time, more than likely you will see one of those 2 crippling lucha, and especially helmet will pressure it even further which is ran on 20% of pexes. Corviknight's most common builds are max def, i doubt you are going to force chip on corviknight especially if its their one lucha check which they should be aware to keep healthy. Lucha is not able to run all the moves anyway, so you are either missing out on dnite, zapdos, or lacking sub/taunt to be safe against status and moves such as roar, whirlwind and dragon tail. Hawlucha cant really do everything and usually falls short on KO's a lot, like clefable, corviknight, zapdos, dragonite, etc

Keeping terrain up is pretty easy, you just preserve it for late game to sack so that Hawl can sweep or something of that nature. Fatter builds can usually handle hawlucha via multiple checks, but Offensive builds make up alot of the current metagame and those tend to only really have 1-2 flimsy checks that you can fairly reasonably overwhelm with your teammates. You don't have to use Hawlucha to beat a full health Toxapex yknow, acro kills the most common mixed spreads at like 60 percentish. Corviknight running max defense changes nothing when HO can very easily put it under enough pressure for lucha to win given they very often have quite literally no choice, what are you going to do vs the SD kartana besides go to your bird and pivot into an Rker? What about SD rillaboom, Weavile, Garchomp, SD Lando, SD Scizor? You have plenty of options at your disposal to force adequate damage onto Hawl's checks. Hawl really only needs to pick between like pjab if you wanna pressure fini Clef Koko hard for something else, Stone edge for birds, and Sub/taunt for annoying teams that rely on passive checks to Hawl. You can incredibly easily customize it according to your team and what you need pressured most. Hawlucha falling short of those KOs isn't a big deal, they'd be substantially chipped by the time Hawlucha is in and if it dies, so be it. You forced good chip and now something else like Weav or Dnite wins.

I dunno why your reasoning seems to try and justify Hawlucha's inability to sweep every team with like 1 mon chipped as a reason for why its bad, cause almost nothing in the tier can do that. Hawl is all or nothing but like 90% of what fits on HO is all or nothing, so whatever, Just think about when you should send in Lucha and you will put in good work a good chunk of the time.

 

[Ox the Fox]

WCOP has finally ended, so here are my thoughts on what should rise/fall.

Rises
--> S- Weavile is insane right now, easily the best late game cleaner. It's incredibly hard to switch into at +2, assuming you're using the viable set and axel hits, and oftentimes just wins with any sort of chip on mons like corvi, fini, and tran. I would put this either as the #2 or #3 mon in the metagame, with lando-t #1, and heatran also #2 or #3.

--> A+ Last cycle I voted for koko to stay A, but now I think it's clearly A+ rank - and one of the best mons in A+. Long-term it's extremely hard to deal with, as many teams either have a lando-t which can easily be worn down, or something like gking that gets chipped through hazards and u-turn. It's ability to u-turn off of any of its checks is what makes it so powerful, as it allows powerful breakers like shifu and weav to come in easily. I also love the defensive utility it has with roost and not being physically based, being able to actually switch into bulky waters like pex and slowking and also consistently switch into mons like corviknight and torn-t.

--> A+ Tornt is definitely overdue for a rise. The knock off sets are extremely hard to deal with long-term, with regen + boots keeping it alive seemingly forever. NP can also be extremely dangerous in certain matchups, although the poor accuracy of its main moves makes it less consistent.

--> A+ I just said the other day I don't think fini should rise to A+, but I've actually changed my mind on it. It's able to check many of the top threats like omistshifu, weavile, and dragapult and is extremely annoying to switch into. Scarf and whirlpool are both phenomenal sets that can be a pain to defensively deal with, and CM is a more niche set that works in certain matchups. Overall, fini is a great pokemon right now and very deserving of a rise.

--> B+ fucking hate playing vs this mon

--> C+ I'm still not extremely sold on hail as an archetype, but it can definitely get great matchups and is deserving of a rise. TDK vs Erz in WCOP finals tiebreaker was an excellent example of a good hail team being used effectively in high level play and goes to show the archetype is viable.

Drops
--> S- I think pult is obviously still a top-tier threat, but it's definitely fallen from where it was at the beginning of WCOP. The rise of spdf lando-t and weavile both really hurt it, and not much has happened for it to get much better. It doesn't really OHKO much, so it's either coming in on a weakened mon or revenge killing a fast mon like moistshifu or kartana, which means the opponent just got a kill. Clicking shadow ball can also be a huge liability vs. weavile teams, as oftentimes giving weavile a free SD means the game is over.

--> A- Gomi wrote on this nicely so I won't say much, but yeah slowking sucks.

--> A- This mon is so much worse than koko, which is why I think it should be 2 sub ranks below it. The main draw that koko has over it is actual defensive utility - having roost + being able to switch into scald makes it so much better in so many matchups. Zeraora, on the other hand, really struggles to come in throughout the match as the lack of recovery means any sort of chip is permanent. It's also extremely weak, which means you can easily have mons like koko and corviknight take a hit to u-turn safely into lando-t. I can't remember the last time I was remotely scared of getting swept by zeraora, as it's just really easy to keep at bay. I get how in theory it seems easy to chip down lando-t to win late-game with bulk up, but in practice tapu koko is so much more effective at consistently wearing down lando-t due to how much more it comes on the field.

--> B+ Honestly hard to fit onto teams, and doesn't fill any real specific niches. I think offensive sets can be deadly and I was working on a sub charge beam hurricane team to bring to WCOP, but just couldn't find a team I really liked with it.

--> B- mandi is pretty bad right now, not sure when I would ever use it over another bird

--> C- This mon is unbelievably bad, the only argument I've heard for it being this high is the nonexistent subroost set that got used one time. As a whole, moltres really doesn't check anything important that doesn't knock it off, and it also isn't remotely threatening to switch into.

 

[JeebusMcFunk]

I might not be the most experienced player but I still think I can manage a nice grasp on the meta. So I do have some noms, hopefully they are well received. Obviously some of these have been said before, but I really enjoy and support some of them and disagree with others.

Rises:
--> S-. Weav is truly a force to be reckoned with right now. Many games are decided on giving weav that Swords Dance and the power of Triple Axel with the priority of Ice Shard provides ample STAB both ways. Dark type is always nice and it checks what most consider to be the best offensive mon in the game right now. The only things holding it back from true S are the fact that fighting moves make it cry and accuracy issues in Axel (which may be just me)

--> A+. Just an all around amazing mon. It provides plenty of checks to many major threats and has an incredible utility movepool where it can serve various roles. Utility is king, and it especially helps that Fini can mostly shirk off major threats in the most popular core in OU right now: Pult/Shifu.

--> A+. I think Koko comes in as the best electric mon in the current OU meta. Not because of its ability to sweep like a traditional electric type, but because it is undoubtedly one of the absolute best pivots currently in the game. I absolutely love its ability to set up and I love the large movepool of useful niches it can fill and enjoy. The ability to fill many roles is just as important if not more than the ability to hit stuff until it dies so Koko deserves a raise off that merit.

--> A+. How has this mon not seen its rise yet? I don't often use it myself, but Torn is just an all around great mon. The longevity of it is terrifying and its movepool is quite powerful. The only thing holding it back from the level of respect that its earthy brother commands is the fact that its movepool is inaccurate and a little less versatile.

--> A. I think the big bug actually has a really nice spot in the meta right now. With a very nice movepool capable of threatening a lot of top mons and his typing he canbe a great ground/bird check and pairs super well with a mon like Glowking. I also want to point out I think the Rocky Helmet is the way to go for Buzz as it provides consistent chip at many of the mons Buzz can survive against as is like Urshifu and Kartana.

--> A. There's a lot of role compression in Scizor and I absolutely adore his current sand tomb set to deal with some potent threats such as heatran. While not usually the feature player on a team, it provides an excellent partner to many a mon.

--> A. I think everyone else will disagree, but I think the boom deserves the slight bump to sit among the A tier mons. Although it has a lot of threats, Grassy Glide go Brr is actually still a very strong priority move. It can OHKO Weavile (it survives an ice shard, even with a SD and glide has prio over Triple Axel if they do not switch) and Urshifu and has a sneaky OHKO on Pult with Knock Off if they are locked out of Draco Meteor or with prediction. I've also been a big supporter of dropping Wood Hammer and adding Superpower, where it can then OHKO common switch-ins like Heatran. It still has some big weaknesses and checks, but I think the mons in the A tier all have similar weaknesses.

--> A-. I love Mew. If you read my comment, you would see that I highly value versatility, and Mew has that in abundance. You can do nearly everything utility-wise with this guy. Also Mew is hands down one of the better leads in OU.

/ --> B+(with Blacephalon possibly going A- soon even!) Ghost has always been strong, but the type finds itself in a very good place in the current meta. There really aren't that many checks, and the few there are can even be dealt with by these 2 ghost mons, albeit not as consistently.

--> B-. I actually really like Cloyster in the meta. By no means is he the best but the Shell Smash + King's Rock is a really annoying and, at the same time, really fun gimmick that can be surprisingly effective. Cloyster has too many downsides to be considered a top tier threat, but B- reflects mons you really shouldn't underestimate and need to at least consider more in teambuilding.

--> C+. Cratersmash sold me. See his post. Love it.

/ --> C+. Ok, I'm not crazy. I think Sun is a fairly decent archetype in the current meta. Venusaur has almost no switch-ins under the Sun and a banded V-Create under sun from these 2's common partner is about the scariest thing ever. Torkoal is clearly the best sun setter in the game, and where Torkoal goes Venusaur goes. I can say I could even see Sun move to B-, but I like to approach things with trepidation.

Falls:

--> A/A-. With ground being a nearly mandatory type in OU right now, the prominence of Lando, and the absolute lack of recovery for Zera it already had enough to stay out of the S tier. However, I think Zera is worse off then he was even recently. Koko is coming in as a rather superior Electric mon and, though I wouldn't say Zera is bad, his flaws are being exemplified because of it.

--> B+. I understand the viability of Blissey. I get that she checks some top mons, especially Pult. However, I really dislike the fact that physical wallbreakers, which are abundant in the current meta, cause such great pain to Bliss. If there were a couple less physical breakers popular right now Bliss would deserve to reside in the A/A- area like she does, but I don't think you can justify it with mons like Weavile, Urshifu, and even Buzzwole so abundant.

--> B+. For a mon that is a flying, electric type with Defog potential it isn't the best at any of those 3. There are better picks most of the time for a bird, better for an electric, and better for a defogger. Not saying Zapdos is bad by any means, and some teams can fit him if they try. But he finds difficulty justifying his use a bit.

--> B+/B. It really isn't that bisharp is bad. Actually, bisharp is quite good. It mostly is just the fact that there's very little reason to run it. Weavile is heads and shoulders above bisharp right now and it is going to take a really specific team to justify using this instead of the latter. Sometimes a mon doesn't need to be worse because of itself to drop, just because of a better option.

--> B-. When you can't get it done vs what I would consider the top 3 offensive threats in the game (Weavile, Pult, and Urshifu) you can't really justify being high on the Viability Ranking. Not to mention Kartana and Kyurem also checking it. Taunt has seen plenty of use as well. There really isn't much going for this guy unless everything goes his way.

--> B-/C+. Mandibuzz is truly in a bad place right now. With the rise of other birds that are nearly all around better equipped to deal with the current meta Buzz just kind of falls off.

// --> C+. I think it's been said before but Rain is relatively weak in the current meta. I love the archetype, but this is just not the time for it and the VR should reflect that. It is no better than Sun and I could even make the argument that Sun is maybe a bit stronger.

I hope these nominations seem reasonable. I'm not the best player but I love analysis. I'm also sure I missed a couple :)

 

[Spoontech]

Post

I might not be the most experienced player but I still think I can manage a nice grasp on the meta. So I do have some noms, hopefully they are well received. Obviously some of these have been said before, but I really enjoy and support some of them and disagree with others.

Rises:
--> S-. Weav is truly a force to be reckoned with right now. Many games are decided on giving weav that Swords Dance and the power of Triple Axel with the priority of Ice Shard provides ample STAB both ways. Dark type is always nice and it checks what most consider to be the best offensive mon in the game right now. The only things holding it back from true S are the fact that fighting moves make it cry and accuracy issues in Axel (which may be just me)

--> A+. Just an all around amazing mon. It provides plenty of checks to many major threats and has an incredible utility movepool where it can serve various roles. Utility is king, and it especially helps that Fini can mostly shirk off major threats in the most popular core in OU right now: Pult/Shifu.

--> A+. I think Koko comes in as the best electric mon in the current OU meta. Not because of its ability to sweep like a traditional electric type, but because it is undoubtedly one of the absolute best pivots currently in the game. I absolutely love its ability to set up and I love the large movepool of useful niches it can fill and enjoy. The ability to fill many roles is just as important if not more than the ability to hit stuff until it dies so Koko deserves a raise off that merit.

--> A+. How has this mon not seen its rise yet? I don't often use it myself, but Torn is just an all around great mon. The longevity of it is terrifying and its movepool is quite powerful. The only thing holding it back from the level of respect that its earthy brother commands is the fact that its movepool is inaccurate and a little less versatile.

--> A. I think the big bug actually has a really nice spot in the meta right now. With a very nice movepool capable of threatening a lot of top mons and his typing he canbe a great ground/bird check and pairs super well with a mon like Glowking. I also want to point out I think the Rocky Helmet is the way to go for Buzz as it provides consistent chip at many of the mons Buzz can survive against as is like Urshifu and Kartana.

--> A. There's a lot of role compression in Scizor and I absolutely adore his current sand tomb set to deal with some potent threats such as heatran. While not usually the feature player on a team, it provides an excellent partner to many a mon.

--> A. I think everyone else will disagree, but I think the boom deserves the slight bump to sit among the A tier mons. Although it has a lot of threats, Grassy Glide go Brr is actually still a very strong priority move. It can OHKO Weavile (it survives an ice shard, even with a SD and glide has prio over Triple Axel if they do not switch) and Urshifu and has a sneaky OHKO on Pult with Knock Off if they are locked out of Draco Meteor or with prediction. I've also been a big supporter of dropping Wood Hammer and adding Close Combat, where it can then OHKO common switch-ins like Heatran. It still has some big weaknesses and checks, but I think the mons in the A tier all have similar weaknesses.

--> A-. I love Mew. If you read my comment, you would see that I highly value versatility, and Mew has that in abundance. You can do nearly everything utility-wise with this guy. Also Mew is hands down one of the better leads in OU.

/ --> B+(with Blacephalon possibly going A- soon even!) Ghost has always been strong, but the type finds itself in a very good place in the current meta. There really aren't that many checks, and the few there are can even be dealt with by these 2 ghost mons, albeit not as consistently.

--> B-. I actually really like Cloyster in the meta. By no means is he the best but the Shell Smash + King's Rock is a really annoying and, at the same time, really fun gimmick that can be surprisingly effective. Cloyster has too many downsides to be considered a top tier threat, but B- reflects mons you really shouldn't underestimate and need to at least consider more in teambuilding.

--> C+. Cratersmash sold me. See his post. Love it.

/ --> C+. Ok, I'm not crazy. I think Sun is a fairly decent archetype in the current meta. Venusaur has almost no switch-ins under the Sun and a banded V-Create under sun from these 2's common partner is about the scariest thing ever. Torkoal is clearly the best sun setter in the game, and where Torkoal goes Venusaur goes. I can say I could even see Sun move to B-, but I like to approach things with trepidation.

Falls:

--> A. Will I get flack for this? I hope not. But 2 of the biggest threats in the OU force it to switch in Urshifu and Weavile and it really even struggles vs top utility like Tapu Fini. Is it still very solid? Yes., But it probably no longer deserves that cusp of the S rank.

--> A/A-. With ground being a nearly mandatory type in OU right now, the prominence of Lando, and the absolute lack of recovery for Zera it already had enough to stay out of the S tier. However, I think Zera is worse off then he was even recently. Koko is coming in as a rather superior Electric mon and, though I wouldn't say Zera is bad, his flaws are being exemplified because of it.

--> B+. I understand the viability of Blissey. I get that she checks some top mons, especially Pult. However, I really dislike the fact that physical wallbreakers, which are abundant in the current meta, cause such great pain to Bliss. If there were a couple less physical breakers popular right now Bliss would deserve to reside in the A/A- area like she does, but I don't think you can justify it with mons like Weavile, Urshifu, and even Buzzwole so abundant.

--> B+. For a mon that is a flying, electric type with Defog potential it isn't the best at any of those 3. There are better picks most of the time for a bird, better for an electric, and better for a defogger. Not saying Zapdos is bad by any means, and some teams can fit him if they try. But he finds difficulty justifying his use a bit.

--> B+/B. It really isn't that bisharp is bad. Actually, bisharp is quite good. It mostly is just the fact that there's very little reason to run it. Weavile is heads and shoulders above bisharp right now and it is going to take a really specific team to justify using this instead of the latter. Sometimes a mon doesn't need to be worse because of itself to drop, just because of a better option.

--> B-. When you can't get it done vs what I would consider the top 3 offensive threats in the game (Weavile, Pult, and Urshifu) you can't really justify being high on the Viability Ranking. Not to mention Kartana and Kyurem also checking it. Taunt has seen plenty of use as well. There really isn't much going for this guy unless everything goes his way.



// --> C+. I think it's been said before but Rain is relatively weak in the current meta. I love the archetype, but this is just not the time for it and the VR should reflect that. It is no better than Sun and I could even make the argument that Sun is maybe a bit stronger.

I hope these nominations seem reasonable. I'm not the best player but I love analysis. I'm also sure I missed a couple :)

--> B-/C+. Mandibuzz is truly in a bad place right now. With the rise of other birds that are nearly all around better equipped to deal with the current meta Buzz just kind of falls off.

The only one I don't really agree with is Mandibuzz. I think it's fine staying where it is right now, especially because it's one of the few mons that can check both Dragapult and Blacephelon specs sets as of right now. Two mons that are being top threats in the meta right now. It also does pretty well versus Lando, so it's not extremely outclassed by Corvi, still outclassed though. So it's fine in B- right now IMO.