Would just like to note that my post was not in response to Dr. Phd. BJ's apart from the one comparison I took from his post and was meant to be a response to all the Ban arguments I saw, but I am happy to respond nonetheless.
I wouldn't really call a chipped and Knocked SpDef VA Toxapex a switch-in to Scarf Blacephalon, but for the sake of the argument, let's imagine if I didn't get the SpDef drop. Assuming max/max SpDef on the Pex and Jolly Blacephalon on my side and min rolls, Blace would have under-damaged Recover by 22%, so it could stay in for 2 more turns before being threatening by a possible Knock Off, which amounts to 3 turns. (1 - .2)^3 = .512, giving Blace's chances of winning that interaction slightly under 50/50s odds. I'm not sure about you, but personally, I find being able to inconsistently beat a subpar switch-in is a testament to Blace not being broken than anything else.
Also, even with the drop I got, this seems like another example of a player not preparing for Blace and subsequently losing. In jrdn's case, he did not prep for Blace defensively, having to awkwardly telegraph a Pex switch-in the 2 times I came in with Blace, while Bisharp, an offensive check because Sucker Punch, was promptly 2HKOed after Rocks and Life Orb recoil. Again, this goes back to the point I previously made about people not properly preparing for Blace, proceeding to lose, and then calling it broken.
Choice Specs Blacephalon (assuming Magic Guard because all the other abilites need way too much support) is suboptimal compared to MGLO because, while it does have better initial power and can cripple a switch-in (once), it is also much easier to deal with defensively because of immunites to the STAB moves it locks itself into, and after it Tricks away its Specs, it becomes much weaker and unable to outdamage Regenerator on something like Blissey. With MGLO, you can say that Blace can with 50/50s vs teams with 2 soft switch-ins, but with Choice Specs, Blace becomes more powerful at the expense of being much more reliant on prediction...which is the trade-off every Choice item mon makes. The lower power than MGLO after Tricking away its Specs also makes it unable to reach to rolls that MGLO can, which makes these sets seem suboptimal in my eyes compared to MGLO.
Noivern could spam Aerialate Boomburst because there were no type-based immunites to it, only resists that it could U-turn on (I mean Soundproof exists but same thing here). Blace's STABs both have immunities, lower base power than Aerialate Boomburst, lower PP (in Mind Blown's case), and no U-turn. This means if Noivern predicts incorrectly, you still got damage or a pivot off. If Choice Specs Blace predicts incorrectly, while there is still a chance that you do damage, it's also highly possible that you clicked a Fire move into AV Swampert and now have lost a turn. In a tier where pivoting and positioning is almost everything, giving free turns to pivots is one of the worst things you can do.
In the QT vs Redflix replay, Blace clicked Calm Mind vs a Demon Mew when the game was already won at this point and took over a quarter from a 90 BP move, and in the MZ vs DJ Breloominati replay (in which the Blace user lost but apparently this doesn't matter), it took almost half from a crit Magma Storm from an uninvested Heatran, which would be 1/3rd without the crit (a crit that ultimately didn't matter), and MZ made an extremely risky move by pivoting in Blace on a Pokemon that could be running Earth Power. Being able to tank one uninvested resisted hit or setting up late-game on a mon with no SE moves doesn't really scream "oh my god its defensive profile is underrated" to me. This is something a multitude of breakers can do, like BD Kommo-O or SD Weavile when it was legal. Living Scald once from both Fini and Pex is something I didn't expect...but both of those mons also have Knock Off, which can cripple Blace much more than the damage from Scald would, so I don't see how this is relevant. All Blace's typing really does is make it stronger vs priority moves, and if that's your offensive counterplay for breakers, then maybe it should be changed.
By 3 "somewhat common" mons, I believe you're referring to Terrakion, ZyDog, and Azelf. While ZyDog currently has low usage, Terrakion and Azelf are some of the most potent breakers in this tier, and absolutely must be prepared for when building. These aren't "somewhat common" mons; in fact, Azelf is ranked higher on the VR than Blacephalon, while Terrakion sits at the same rank as Blacephalon. Beyond these 3, there's also Alazkazam, Cinderace, and Latios that outspeed Blace but not Weavile (also max Speed Cobalion but that is not checking Blace), which leads to at least 6 more (unboosted) mons that can check Blace. While this doesn't seem like a lot, it is double the number of unboosted mons that could outspeed Weavile, and adding those 3 to the 6 we have gives us 9 mons (6 in A- or higher) that can outspeed and beat Blace. To me, considering the viability of these Pokemon, that sounds like adequate and reasonable offensive counterplay.
You're not going to be able to defensively prepare for every single breaker, especially ones specifically made to break the 3 mon core I used as an example, like CB Heracross and SFLO Lele. That's simply a fact of AAA. I would argue that this could be unhealthy, but this is not the thread for that. This means that these mons must be prepared for offensively, and seeing as all of them have middling speed tiers (except for Terrakion, which is weak to Grassy Glide), this isn't a tall task.
I'm not sure why you're focusing on mid-ground when I also said you could have a secondary switch-in, but I will offer further clarification. By mid-ground, I didn't mean "something that can abuse Blace being locked into a move" but more of a pivot, like Regen Blissey, which can come in and pivot into an offensive check like Terrakion.
The number 3 I'm guessing means 1 direct switch-in + 1 pivot/secondary switch-in + 1 offensive check, not 3 defensive mons, because that actually is overcentralizing. I did not say 3 defensive mons needed to solely switch into Blace, so I guess you are alluding to the former. In that case, this is not as big of an issue as you claim because teams naturally have these mons when preparing for everything else. Simply looking at the sample teams, all of the teams listed have at least 2 mons that can deal with Blace either offensively or defensively, with more than half of these teams having 3 mons, which according to you is overcentralizing, yet these teams are still successful enough to be used as samples. These are teams that, when building around its breakers, most likely did not specifically account for Blacephalon, yet managed to find natural counterplay regardless.
#BanGenesect (okay but seriously if mods don't want me to say this in this thread, then I won't, but it doesn't say anywhere that I can't so...)
Do you have any replays where a team that properly prepares for Blacephalon still loses? Because me and that both provided replay(s) that showed Blace not being broken. I appreciate the Atha vs racool remake, but it looks like another example of a player not adequately preparing for Blacephalon and losing to a Blace with more support than you would normally give a breaker. I politely asked for replays showing cases like the ones I have mentioned and have not been given any. If they don't exist, then it just proves my point of people not properly preparing for Blace, losing to it, and calling it broken.
I apologize if this is not the intention of this paragraph, but this comes off as immensely passive-aggressive towards me and Atha for no reason. You have provided no examples of me shifting the narrative. The narrative is if Blace is banworthy or not and I said "I don't think it is", how exactly is providing reasons for that "shifting the narrative"? I struggle to understand this and am genuinely asking how it is. It seems that, gauging from the number of Haha reacts on the DNB posts as well as the arguments I'm seeing, Blace will most likely be banned, which is a pity because Blace has ended up being great offensive glue for teams.
Edit: Sniped by Atha
I wouldn't really call a chipped and Knocked SpDef VA Toxapex a switch-in to Scarf Blacephalon, but for the sake of the argument, let's imagine if I didn't get the SpDef drop. Assuming max/max SpDef on the Pex and Jolly Blacephalon on my side and min rolls, Blace would have under-damaged Recover by 22%, so it could stay in for 2 more turns before being threatening by a possible Knock Off, which amounts to 3 turns. (1 - .2)^3 = .512, giving Blace's chances of winning that interaction slightly under 50/50s odds. I'm not sure about you, but personally, I find being able to inconsistently beat a subpar switch-in is a testament to Blace not being broken than anything else.
Also, even with the drop I got, this seems like another example of a player not preparing for Blace and subsequently losing. In jrdn's case, he did not prep for Blace defensively, having to awkwardly telegraph a Pex switch-in the 2 times I came in with Blace, while Bisharp, an offensive check because Sucker Punch, was promptly 2HKOed after Rocks and Life Orb recoil. Again, this goes back to the point I previously made about people not properly preparing for Blace, proceeding to lose, and then calling it broken.
Choice Specs Blacephalon (assuming Magic Guard because all the other abilites need way too much support) is suboptimal compared to MGLO because, while it does have better initial power and can cripple a switch-in (once), it is also much easier to deal with defensively because of immunites to the STAB moves it locks itself into, and after it Tricks away its Specs, it becomes much weaker and unable to outdamage Regenerator on something like Blissey. With MGLO, you can say that Blace can with 50/50s vs teams with 2 soft switch-ins, but with Choice Specs, Blace becomes more powerful at the expense of being much more reliant on prediction...which is the trade-off every Choice item mon makes. The lower power than MGLO after Tricking away its Specs also makes it unable to reach to rolls that MGLO can, which makes these sets seem suboptimal in my eyes compared to MGLO.
Noivern could spam Aerialate Boomburst because there were no type-based immunites to it, only resists that it could U-turn on (I mean Soundproof exists but same thing here). Blace's STABs both have immunities, lower base power than Aerialate Boomburst, lower PP (in Mind Blown's case), and no U-turn. This means if Noivern predicts incorrectly, you still got damage or a pivot off. If Choice Specs Blace predicts incorrectly, while there is still a chance that you do damage, it's also highly possible that you clicked a Fire move into AV Swampert and now have lost a turn. In a tier where pivoting and positioning is almost everything, giving free turns to pivots is one of the worst things you can do.
In the QT vs Redflix replay, Blace clicked Calm Mind vs a Demon Mew when the game was already won at this point and took over a quarter from a 90 BP move, and in the MZ vs DJ Breloominati replay (in which the Blace user lost but apparently this doesn't matter), it took almost half from a crit Magma Storm from an uninvested Heatran, which would be 1/3rd without the crit (a crit that ultimately didn't matter), and MZ made an extremely risky move by pivoting in Blace on a Pokemon that could be running Earth Power. Being able to tank one uninvested resisted hit or setting up late-game on a mon with no SE moves doesn't really scream "oh my god its defensive profile is underrated" to me. This is something a multitude of breakers can do, like BD Kommo-O or SD Weavile when it was legal. Living Scald once from both Fini and Pex is something I didn't expect...but both of those mons also have Knock Off, which can cripple Blace much more than the damage from Scald would, so I don't see how this is relevant. All Blace's typing really does is make it stronger vs priority moves, and if that's your offensive counterplay for breakers, then maybe it should be changed.
By 3 "somewhat common" mons, I believe you're referring to Terrakion, ZyDog, and Azelf. While ZyDog currently has low usage, Terrakion and Azelf are some of the most potent breakers in this tier, and absolutely must be prepared for when building. These aren't "somewhat common" mons; in fact, Azelf is ranked higher on the VR than Blacephalon, while Terrakion sits at the same rank as Blacephalon. Beyond these 3, there's also Alazkazam, Cinderace, and Latios that outspeed Blace but not Weavile (also max Speed Cobalion but that is not checking Blace), which leads to at least 6 more (unboosted) mons that can check Blace. While this doesn't seem like a lot, it is double the number of unboosted mons that could outspeed Weavile, and adding those 3 to the 6 we have gives us 9 mons (6 in A- or higher) that can outspeed and beat Blace. To me, considering the viability of these Pokemon, that sounds like adequate and reasonable offensive counterplay.
You're not going to be able to defensively prepare for every single breaker, especially ones specifically made to break the 3 mon core I used as an example, like CB Heracross and SFLO Lele. That's simply a fact of AAA. I would argue that this could be unhealthy, but this is not the thread for that. This means that these mons must be prepared for offensively, and seeing as all of them have middling speed tiers (except for Terrakion, which is weak to Grassy Glide), this isn't a tall task.
I'm not sure why you're focusing on mid-ground when I also said you could have a secondary switch-in, but I will offer further clarification. By mid-ground, I didn't mean "something that can abuse Blace being locked into a move" but more of a pivot, like Regen Blissey, which can come in and pivot into an offensive check like Terrakion.
The number 3 I'm guessing means 1 direct switch-in + 1 pivot/secondary switch-in + 1 offensive check, not 3 defensive mons, because that actually is overcentralizing. I did not say 3 defensive mons needed to solely switch into Blace, so I guess you are alluding to the former. In that case, this is not as big of an issue as you claim because teams naturally have these mons when preparing for everything else. Simply looking at the sample teams, all of the teams listed have at least 2 mons that can deal with Blace either offensively or defensively, with more than half of these teams having 3 mons, which according to you is overcentralizing, yet these teams are still successful enough to be used as samples. These are teams that, when building around its breakers, most likely did not specifically account for Blacephalon, yet managed to find natural counterplay regardless.
#BanGenesect (okay but seriously if mods don't want me to say this in this thread, then I won't, but it doesn't say anywhere that I can't so...)
Do you have any replays where a team that properly prepares for Blacephalon still loses? Because me and that both provided replay(s) that showed Blace not being broken. I appreciate the Atha vs racool remake, but it looks like another example of a player not adequately preparing for Blacephalon and losing to a Blace with more support than you would normally give a breaker. I politely asked for replays showing cases like the ones I have mentioned and have not been given any. If they don't exist, then it just proves my point of people not properly preparing for Blace, losing to it, and calling it broken.
I apologize if this is not the intention of this paragraph, but this comes off as immensely passive-aggressive towards me and Atha for no reason. You have provided no examples of me shifting the narrative. The narrative is if Blace is banworthy or not and I said "I don't think it is", how exactly is providing reasons for that "shifting the narrative"? I struggle to understand this and am genuinely asking how it is. It seems that, gauging from the number of Haha reacts on the DNB posts as well as the arguments I'm seeing, Blace will most likely be banned, which is a pity because Blace has ended up being great offensive glue for teams.
Edit: Sniped by Atha
