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Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics - July 2009
- Thread starter DougJustDoug
- Start date
It just means that the metagame is starting to settle. That'll likely change in a few months, if HGSS has any useful move tutors.
They have nothing in common besides both being grass types (with different secondary typings).
Roserade is pretty decent in OU, my favourite is specs-Leaf Storm.
Roserade used to be OU anyway. I'm not overly surprised that it's gaining usage.
And, this whole Porygon 2 thing is getting annoying. I always get my hopes up that it'll be OU, but when the important month comes, it always marginally misses out! :(
Infact, I think Porygon 2 has a higher chance of being NU in October than OU!
And, this whole Porygon 2 thing is getting annoying. I always get my hopes up that it'll be OU, but when the important month comes, it always marginally misses out! :(
Infact, I think Porygon 2 has a higher chance of being NU in October than OU!
IMO PorygonZ will have to fall into UU or Blissey use will have to drop off before Porygon2 becomes OU. Normal type is rather mediocre and those two seem to be too common at this point to see much more Porygon2 use. Unlike Steel types when you can have three of them on the same team(Metagross/Scizor, Bronzong, Heatran) and not have too many problems, it's against conventional wisdom to have Porygon2 with Blissey or PorygonZ.
None of these pokemon you have mentioned performed the same role as Porygon2, so people must not understand the team building process. If your team is weak to DD Salamence, DD Gyarados, Choice Specs Heatran, Choice Specs Jolteon, etc, you will use Porygon2, who beats all of those.
Roserade is an interesting case. Roserade was doing well as a lead in the Standard metagame until about last year. Last July, Roserade was used as a lead 2.35% of the time (assuming my math is correct). It was about this time (June/July) that the frail suicide lead became popular (if I recall correctly). In fact, I believe I was using a Roserade lead myself up until that time, but found that the suicide leads rendered it relatively ineffective. Seems like other players felt similarly, as Roserade's usage as a lead began dropping afterwards.
Now, however, despite the continued prevalence of frail suicide leads, it has managed to surpass its usage from last year. My guess is that this can be attributed to a combination of the fact that there are many more slower "bulkier" suicide leads (e.g. Metagross, Heatran) which Roserade can outspeed and sleep, that there are more frequently used lead pokemon which Roserade can outright beat or force out (e.g. Swampert and Hippowdon), and that there is a relative lack of use of lum berries on opposing leads (such as on Bronzong) compared to the pre-Platinum metagame last year.
Anyways, Doug, thank you for the statistics as always.
Now, however, despite the continued prevalence of frail suicide leads, it has managed to surpass its usage from last year. My guess is that this can be attributed to a combination of the fact that there are many more slower "bulkier" suicide leads (e.g. Metagross, Heatran) which Roserade can outspeed and sleep, that there are more frequently used lead pokemon which Roserade can outright beat or force out (e.g. Swampert and Hippowdon), and that there is a relative lack of use of lum berries on opposing leads (such as on Bronzong) compared to the pre-Platinum metagame last year.
Anyways, Doug, thank you for the statistics as always.
A large part of this has to do with the lowering of Hypnosis's accuracy and Bullet Punch Scizor. Bronzong, and many other leads used to run Lum Berry, because Gengar, and opposing Bronzong were such huge threats. Now, that hypnosis has lower accuracy, these leads aren't being used for sleep, so much as they are for luring(Gengar) or screens(Bronzong). Of course, many of them still run Hypnosis, but that isn't why they are leading(a huge part of why pre-Platinum they were used). On top of that, Bullet Punch Scizor severely neuters Gengar and Roserade leads, so other leads don't feel the necessity of running a Lum Berry. Just shows how two moves can directly affect a metagame in a huge way.
IMO the most important rule of team building is minizing overlapping weaknesses and maximizing available switch ins and coverage, not trying to get every possible role filled.
Porygon2 and PorygonZ might not have the same role, but their type coverage and weaknesses are so identical that anything that switches in to counter one is not going to do poorly against the other, especially if they hit PorygonZ's horrid defenses if it trys to switch in from Porygon2.
Blissey + Porygon2 is overkill really against specs Jolteon/Heatran, and you'd still need something else for many physical attackers who don't have intimidate.
Both combos just put more pressure on the rest of your team.
And I'm actually a big fan of Porygon2, I'd LOVE to see an example of a good Porygon2 + one of PorygonZ or Blissey team.
That isn't what I am saying. I am saying that most people aren't going to refuse to use Porygon2 because they have a fighting weakness, rather if they have a Gyarados / DD Salamence weak. So, instead of using something like Blissey, which may not bring the same countering support on a team with things like Latias, then that player will likely choose Porygon2 > Blissey. It shouldn't have anything to do with typing, rather the role / support it brings to the table. It is quite easy to play around fighting(with a ghost and/or Intimidating flying types/psychics/poisons/etc.), and extremely difficult to play around a weakness you have to a DDer.
You are really confused here. I am not assuming they are on the same team, rather assuming that a team has one slot for a fighting weakness, which pokemon is more useful.
So, the general things that are possibly going to happen in the 'danger zone' are:
OU: Porygon2, Roserade
UU: Alakazam, possibly Rhyperior (Which I find it odd that no-one commented on)
The effects of this will be quite reaching. Most people don't look into UU for teams, and more people will notice P2, and the perfect counter to Gyara, Salamance, Heatran, Jolteon, ect all in one. This will, needless to say, cause a loss in use of the Porygon2 Counters, or, a rise in Lucario/Infernape being paired with them, to take out P2. It should be interesting to see Porygon2's effects on the OU stats.
Roserade will probobly increase useage of Lum Berry leads. Metagross leads may rise in use, with a Lum Berry, Bullet Punch, Rocks, Explosion and Meteor Mash/Earthquake (Suicide lead, so coverage is not needed desperatly, and not much except leadTran OHKO's Metagross) Azelf, on the other hand, may suffer a little, due to the rise of Metagross with BP, as Azelf cannot beat that Lead Metagross.
In UU, Alakazam and Rhyperior will be monsters. Regice will not be relied upon to beat Alakazam, due to Rhyperior tearing through it (albeit, not before taking a hard hit) I see both Alakazam and Rhyperior being used in tandem as a possible thing, and this will lead to more Priority users in UU to be used, to counter Alakazam, and the Bulky Waters can finish Rhyperior. Honchkrow could fill a Scizor-like trap, of Sucker Punch and Persuit. Alakazam may end up as BL, but I think that Rhyperior's low speed will keep him UU.
And, Specs Alakazam's Focus Blast will hurt Regice... Badly.
Rotom-C is only 0.2% of all leads 0_0. His anti-lead ability is tremendous. Sure, I've stopped using him for now, due to him not fitting on my current team... but... it's up from 0.17%!
OU: Porygon2, Roserade
UU: Alakazam, possibly Rhyperior (Which I find it odd that no-one commented on)
The effects of this will be quite reaching. Most people don't look into UU for teams, and more people will notice P2, and the perfect counter to Gyara, Salamance, Heatran, Jolteon, ect all in one. This will, needless to say, cause a loss in use of the Porygon2 Counters, or, a rise in Lucario/Infernape being paired with them, to take out P2. It should be interesting to see Porygon2's effects on the OU stats.
Roserade will probobly increase useage of Lum Berry leads. Metagross leads may rise in use, with a Lum Berry, Bullet Punch, Rocks, Explosion and Meteor Mash/Earthquake (Suicide lead, so coverage is not needed desperatly, and not much except leadTran OHKO's Metagross) Azelf, on the other hand, may suffer a little, due to the rise of Metagross with BP, as Azelf cannot beat that Lead Metagross.
In UU, Alakazam and Rhyperior will be monsters. Regice will not be relied upon to beat Alakazam, due to Rhyperior tearing through it (albeit, not before taking a hard hit) I see both Alakazam and Rhyperior being used in tandem as a possible thing, and this will lead to more Priority users in UU to be used, to counter Alakazam, and the Bulky Waters can finish Rhyperior. Honchkrow could fill a Scizor-like trap, of Sucker Punch and Persuit. Alakazam may end up as BL, but I think that Rhyperior's low speed will keep him UU.
And, Specs Alakazam's Focus Blast will hurt Regice... Badly.
Rotom-C is only 0.2% of all leads 0_0. His anti-lead ability is tremendous. Sure, I've stopped using him for now, due to him not fitting on my current team... but... it's up from 0.17%!
Seriously, why is Deoxys used so much? It was never used more than 100 times iirc and now he is #35
Metagross keeps dropping
Brother owned sister.
Gyarados #36? I guess that it is because of the rain and that Intimidate can help him to set up?
And use Groudon more.
Metagross keeps dropping
Brother owned sister.
Gyarados #36? I guess that it is because of the rain and that Intimidate can help him to set up?
And use Groudon more.
Garchomp isn't all threatening anymore, with checks like Latias and Scarf Flygon(needed Draco Meteor prior to Platinum to OHKO). Scizor also received Bullet Punch, so he can easily take an Outrage and 2HKO.
Regice was never used in UU to counter things like Espeon. Instead people used things like Drapion, Honchkrow, Chansey, and Registeel. I don't see that changing much with Alakazam if it ever does drop into UU. In terms of special attacking, the few differences are slightly higher special attack, a pretty significant 10 base points in speed, and Focus Blast. Focus Blast will probably be a big deal if people feel really desperate in breaking down the above mentioned pokemon, but I think the 70% accuracy will steer people away. So I think people will handle Alakazam in UU like we've always had with Espeon. Encore sets will be fun though!
Rhyperior has 10 more base points in HP, Attack, Defense, and Special Defense, and Solid Rock (and Rock Wrecker haha) over Rhydon. Is that enough of a difference to make Rhyperior too much for UU? It also may be the factor that Rhydon is not fully evolved, so people will avoid using it. Just something to think about.
But many chomps also carry scarfs (so flygons shouldn't be that big of a deal)
Many Chomps are also carrying haban because of the latio/as variants. I personally think garchomp is just too powerful. But by the looks of it (in many recent threads), it seems like Garchomp is more likely to be voted to come to OU than stay in UBER...though I would be just sad :( lol
Well either way I would really liek to see shaymin-s in ou then i would be happy lol
I wish people would stop saying these sort of things. First Yanmega was obviously BL, then Dugtrio would destroy UU. Neither of these things happened. These are the attitudes that created the disaster that was old UU.
For Alakazam, UU has many answers. A Dark-type switching in on Psychic is instantly fatal, and Spiritomb can come in easily on both Psychic and Focus Blast, threatening with both Sucker Punch and Pursuit. Registeel and Chansey really only fear Focus Blast, and can fight back with crippling paralysis. Dugtrio traps and revenges it with Sucker Punch. Basically any Sucker Punch spells instant death, considering zam's defenses.
Rhyperior probably won't fall to UU, TBH, as it's been holding its own quite well. Still, keep in mind that in UU, it generally won't have Sandstorm's sdef boost, and even with Solid Rock, it's still taking triple damage from Water and Grass attacks, and there's a lot of those running around UU. Combine that with very low base speed and the fact that Rhydon, who isn't that much worse, is not used, and you have something that probably won't be that threatening. Its low speed also lets it down, as after a Rock Polish, it barely scrapes past Swellow even with max speed jolly. It also needs at least 216 speed EVs and Jolly to not be revenge killed by Sceptile after a Rock Polish. Oh, and don't forget that Yanmega easily outspeeds it after 1 speed boost.
yeah i agree,with all those grass and water types running around in the UU tier rhyperiors main presence would be in sandstorm teams maybe we will see a big jump in hippotoss usage?
and also:
why is celebi usage down?now i know that with all those scizors and salamences running around is starting to pose a threat on its usage but celebi can outspeed and KO scizor with hp fire,but mence...well celebi can run in fear vs mence
it stops gyrados too whos rising usage is also taking into effect in celebis peresence.
its very intresting that 2 things balance celebis usage to make it...well fairly average.
EDIT:it reaches 392 speed after a rock poilsh with max speed and jolly outspeeding the marjorly of the UU tier
Actually, Scizor can take an HP Fire from Celebi easily, as little as 52% if it's specially defensive. So if Scizor has Wish support, it can just take the HP Fire and KO with U-turn.
And Rhyperior in UU.... the whole question is whether that little increase in stats is going to make a difference. But as of now, I doubt that it'd be too much.
And Rhyperior in UU.... the whole question is whether that little increase in stats is going to make a difference. But as of now, I doubt that it'd be too much.
Does Solid Rock ensure some key survivals that Rhydon falls to?
I'm not belittling Rhyperior, but his traits might not be enough to propel him into the top 10 or so of UU. But lets wait till he actually comes into UU before discussing this.
most scizors (the CB set for ex) invests more in defense than in sp def so its highly unlikely that its gonna be a special defensive set
also:
i really dont think that their not that dangurous with all those scizors running around
all that porygon-2 can do to scizor is cripple it with thunder wave and thats it .porygon-2 is also set up bait vs steel types
and i doubt roserade will hang up to the ropes with all those scizors,salamences,heatrans and infernapes running around and even if it does have hp fire(which most does) it can be revenged killed easily by both SD luke and choice band scizor
but for now we have to wait and see if both truly gives an impact on the metagame
you know who needs more love?nasty plot togekiss.
