Metagame SM RU - RU Alpha Discussion - Month 2

What are you looking forward to in Sun/Moon?

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I've been having a lot of success with Piloswine so I thought I'd share :)
piloswine.gif

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash

Currently, some of the best hazard setters and hazard removers in the meta are Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Qwilfish, Roserade, Chesnaught, Donphan, and Gligar respectively. Due to its great offensive typing, high attack stat, STAB moves if not OHKO, 2HKOs most of these, and as a result, makes itself a great SR option for more offensive teams. With access to ice shard, late game Piloswine also finds ways to stop late game sweeps against some of the games best offensive threats once taking prior damage such as Hawlucha, Haxorus, Shaymin, Swellow, etc. To put the cherry on top, its access to Thick Fat means it can offensively check one of the tiers most offensive threats, Darmanitan, and threatens back with an OHKO. With that being said Piloswine is a fantastic SR that you all should try :)




Here are some calcs:

252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 372-440 (122.7 - 145.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 338-398 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Qwilfish: 186-218 (55.6 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 362-428 (138.6 - 163.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 162-192 (42.6 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Donphan: 168-198 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Piloswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 240-288 (72 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I don't think I've had a game yet where this thing doesn't body at least one member of the other team. Even though RU is only alpha right now, IMO Moltres is easily one of, if not the, best fire types we have in the tier. Obviously SR is the main issue you'll be facing; have a consistent hazard remover and basically allow it to wreak havoc. There's but a mere handful that can switch into any of it's moves without absolutely getting shredded, the ones I can think of at the top of my head is AV Goodra (Regular Goodra gets 2HKOed after rocks and some chip damage by hurricane) Snorlax, Rotom-H and Porygon2. All others that can tank a hit either can't do much back (Looking at you Alomomola and Milotic), or can't directly switch into it in the first place.
 
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Oh god screw blind bird that thing needs to die.

Also, has anyone tested Burn Up over Fire Blast? That's basically Overheat but you can still HP or Hurricane if they switch in a resist. (Can you tell I'm looking for a way to use it while maintaining 100% accurate STAB?)
 
theDSC said:
Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I don't think I've had a game yet where this thing doesn't body at least one member of the other team. Even though RU is only alpha right now, IMO Moltres is easily one of, if not the, best fire types we have in the tier. Obviously SR is the main issue you'll be facing; have a consistent hazard remover and basically allow it to wreak havoc. There's but a mere handful that can switch into any of it's moves without absolutely getting shredded, the ones I can think of at the top of my head is AV Goodra (Regular Goodra gets 2HKOed after rocks and some chip damage by hurricane) Snorlax, Rotom-H and Porygon2. All others that can tank a hit either can't do much back (Looking at you Alomomola and Milotic), or can't directly switch into it in the first place.
Click to expand...

Isn't the problem with this that Tornadus runs a similar set better without getting so bodied by rocks. You have a STAB fire move, but Superpower/Focus Blast actually hit most of the checks harder. I would add Gigalith as one of the top checks to this thing given how common it is and how little it takes from any of your attacks.
 
theDSC said:
Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I don't think I've had a game yet where this thing doesn't body at least one member of the other team. Even though RU is only alpha right now, IMO Moltres is easily one of, if not the, best fire types we have in the tier. Obviously SR is the main issue you'll be facing; have a consistent hazard remover and basically allow it to wreak havoc. There's but a mere handful that can switch into any of it's moves without absolutely getting shredded, the ones I can think of at the top of my head is AV Goodra (Regular Goodra gets 2HKOed after rocks and some chip damage by hurricane) Snorlax, Rotom-H and Porygon2. All others that can tank a hit either can't do much back (Looking at you Alomomola and Milotic), or can't directly switch into it in the first place.
Click to expand...

As much as I love Moltres, there's definitely some checks you left off. Diancie and Gigalith are great Rock-types that don't care about its STAB options and can handle a HP Grass or two. Tornadus gives it major competition as well, but moreso due to the lack of reliable hazard control, which exposes Moltres's 4x SR weakness more. It's definitely a Pokemon I see getting much better once we start Beta in a few days - a week and (hopefully) get more hazard control options. Also, I definitely like Bloom Doom on Moltres to have the capability of pushing massive damage onto Diancie and bulky Water-types that can otherwise do something with Moltres (Slowking, Suicune, etc)

Hugin , I'm not a big fan of Burn Up since it means that you can be burned by Scald and you lose Fire STAB for the fat Steels in the tier after its first use.
 
So I'll jump on the train and post some thoughts as we wrap up alpha part 2:

First off, the team I've been using for most of the month (besides a few amazing meme teams)
Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 204 HP / 248 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar
- Scald

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Rest

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Dragalge @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Haze/Scald/Hidden Power Fire
- Toxic Spikes


And some replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-537009928
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-537102149
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-541085514

I don't think there's much point talking about haxorus/crawdaunt/gatr/luke/cune, I think it's pretty well known at this point those two are extremely strong and probably going to get the boot within 24 hours of us entering beta at most. So I'd like to quickly talk about a few mons I think aren't going to be in the first or second banwave but are really good right now.

dragalge.gif


Dragalge functions a lot like goodra, only a lot worse on paper thanks to lower stats across the board and lack of fire coverage. Drag carves itself a niche with it's poison typing and ability however. Simply put, Z-draco from this thing is insane, and ohkos almost every neutral hit with the exception of AV users or extremely specially bulky mons like snorlax. Those that survive will often be finished off by a followup draco. And of course, dragalge discourages fairies from switching in to absorb draco with stab sludge wave. If for some reason you don't want to just spam draco until you die, drag can lay tspikes to support the team or laugh at cune with haze. Can't wait for next month when we get magneton, drag to drag combo pls.

shaymin.gif


Shaymin is amazing right now and fits on almost every team. It switches in easily thanks to it's bulk, can heal itself to full in a single move, switches into scalds/toxic, has coverage for whatever you want, and of course, the almighty seed flare. It's hard to describe how amazing seed flare is. Last mon Crocune got a few CMs in and now you can't roar it? No problem, have shaymin pick up a few seed flare drops and mop it up. Opponent switched in entei? Seed flare drop + earth power cleans it up. Snorlax at 70% after tanking a draco earlier in the game? Can't switch in safely now, since it has a 40% chance to get 2hkod. There's no shaymin getting swept by this thing.
Also it's cute and loves nature and happiness and *squeee*

escavalier.gif


You know what beats both of the threats I just posted about, along with a whole bunch others like cress, kyurem, and swellow? Mr Punk Rock Knock Off Mohawk Steel Block himself, Escavalier. EonX brought up bronzong earlier. Do you want to use bronzong, but also not be a nerd? Use this guy. He sponges hits from most teams all day and pairs really well with mola/vappy to keep him healthy through the match. My personal recommendation is to put drill run > pursuit on AV escav, pursuit often isn't strong enough imo without band and hitting entei on the switch and not being setup bait for luke is worth it.

Finally... the best sweeper in the tier that isn't going to (probably) be banned week 1. The most terrifying thing you can face and still say, so cute and squishy. A monster about to come alive...






reuniclus.gif


OTR reun crushes worlds. It 2hkos max hp suicune. It 2hkos lax if you don't miss focus blast. It sweeps teams at the drop of a hat and can stay at full health throughout the match thanks to magic guard. This means even when sandstorm/hazards are up, it can double switch in and fire off psychics early game to chip at it's checks, and still have 100% hp late game to tank a hit and TR up to sweep. For bulkier teams that don't immediately get crushed, reun can hammer away at them repeatedly thanks to it's toxic immunity and decent bulk. Not much more to say, its not too complicated of a mon. I will mention though that calm mind reun is also totally viable, and only adds to the effectiveness of OTR - powerful hard hitters like heracross and absol that switch in to try and overpower the defensive set suddenly find themselves outsped and staring down the barrel of this loaded grenade launcher disguised as a fetus.
I know Arikado will also sing this mon's praises if you ask him about it so maybe bother him idunno.

P.S. this is another mon thats gets rekt by Lance Vance up there.
 
I've also been using the same team as the one spookysocialist posted there and it's insanely fun. It opened my eyes to how valuable Vaporeon can be and how he's not just "a bad mola/milotic " or whatever. Having water immunity and Roar gives it a lot of utility, and Roar alone is a good enough reason to give it an edge over other bulky waters/wish passers. It can serve as a decent check to Suicune, CM Cresselia, CM anything honestly, while still having good bulk and really good HP for wish passing.

Also I agree with OTR Reun. It functions incredibly well with Gigalith too, the chip 6% damage is actually really neat and can help Reun get some easier kills, and having Toxic on Gigalith is cool to cripple some walls for Reun to clean up later, not to mention Gigalith is also an amazing Stealth Rock setter. But seriously, I can't stress enough how much of a fucking nuke Reuniclus is lol. He sets up TR and sweeps as many mons as there are TR turns, no exaggeration. It's an absolute stop to any HO team that relies on fast hitters. Imagine LO Alakazam could run Modest and outspeed all scarfers, that's Reuniclus for you.

Can't wait for beta to start up soon though, finally we can shape up a decent meta to play in without broken stuff :3

also shaymin is cute ^.^
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7rualpha-542695261
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Tomb
- Double-Edge

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Taunt

Dodrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Jump Kick
- Quick Attack

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Vacuum Wave
- Sludge Wave
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
So I decided to build a team that was similar to Aquadext's sample SM UU team since a lot of the pokemon on his team can be used in sm ru. This is a very weird team as it has no hazard removal but, if it works for me then I'm sure you can do better with it haha. The team is simple, it's just all-out-offense.
 
The wait for stat releases is killing me

In the meantime here are safe assumptions, based on UU metagame trends, on what will drop and what will rise.

Drops
Dhelmise - Most Likely
Kingdra - Most Likely
Flygon - Probably
Kommo-O - Probably
Sylveon - Probably
Mantine - Might

Rises
Slowbro - Most Likely
Nidoking - Most Likely
Slowking - Probably
Nidoqueen - Probably
Entei - Probably
Suicune - Probably
Heracross - Maybe

This only pure speculation, none of this might not even happen (some probably will), but if half of the rises and drops do happen, I could see alot of shifts in metagame power. Do you agree with any of my predictions? Are there any you think I missed?

Also, Mega Steelix IS returning to RU very soon. How do you think it will do? Do you think its near the levels of borkedness as in Gen 6 RU?
 
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G-Luke said:
The wait for stat releases is killing me

In the meantime here are safe assumptions, based on UU metagame trends, on what will drop and what will rise.

Drops
Dhelmise - Most Likely
Kingdra - Most Likely
Flygon - Probably
Kommo-O - Probably
Sylveon - Probably
Mantine - Might

Rises
Slowbro - Most Likely
Nidoking - Most Likely
Slowking - Probably
Nidoqueen - Probably
Entei - Probably
Suicune - Probably
Heracross - Maybe

This only pure speculation, none of this might not even happen (some probably will), but if half of the rises and drops do happen, I could see alot of shifts in metagame power. Do you agree with any of my predictions? Are there any you think I missed?

Also, Mega Steelix IS returning to RU very soon. How do you think it will do? Do you think its near the levels of borkedness as in Gen 6 RU?
Click to expand...


My thoughts about Mega Lix are that it will be a very potent threat in the RU metagame, but it might be safe to keep. With the power creep there are new threats to it such as Heracross or Milotic, and being weak to every other bulky water doesn't help either. It could still be banned because of first-turn mega mechanics and Steel becoming more useful than it was with all the fairies introduced in Gen 7. I'm more on the fence about Lix at this point, will have to see how beta develops.
 
Venoxio said:
My thoughts about Mega Lix are that it will be a very potent threat in the RU metagame, but it might be safe to keep. With the power creep there are new threats to it such as Heracross or Milotic, and being weak to every other bulky water doesn't help either. It could still be banned because of first-turn mega mechanics and Steel becoming more useful than it was with all the fairies introduced in Gen 7. I'm more on the fence about Lix at this point, will have to see how beta develops.
Click to expand...

The new mega mechanics dont apply to Steelix in the slightest - its not getting any faster nor slower.
 
Mega-meganium said:
When February usage stats come out
Click to expand...

Any idea when that'll be?

Personally I'm more worried about Mega Pidgeot than Mega Steelix. It can take advantage of its Speed tier right from turn 1 now, and the only unboosted Pokemon that outrun it are Swellow, Jolteon and Accelgor (I think, not 100% sure). Swellow does give it stiff competition - it's a bit faster, with a Choice Specs it can hit harder, and it doesn't fill your mega slot. However, Swellow is frailer (60/60/50 vs 83/80/80) and Mega Pidgeot doesn't need to lock itself into one move to hit hard. Plus perfectly accurate Hurricanes are so good - nothing's immune to them, and even the Pokemon which can take them have a good chance to be confused. It can also run a stallbreaker set with Work Up, Hurricane, Roost and Refresh. It got banned pretty early into OR/AS RU (I think, not 100% sure), but now Gigalith can make its life hell. Not sure if it'll still be broken, but I have no doubt it will be a major threat.

Also, this Tuesday, the Beedrillite gets released. Will that just be quickbanned?
 
Keep in mind that megalix now has an actually useful ability this gen. Gigalith's presence means that megalix can abuse sand force for a 50% power boost, as well as chip damage on opponents. Granted gigalith and megalix don't have the greatest synergy, but they are usable together and gigalith makes a good anti sand mon at least, switching into dog and using sand against the opponent.

Of course, I think theres actually a better then not chance megalix actually ends up uu for a while. Uu is wanting good steels since they don't have mega aggron.

Edit @above:

New mega pokemon will start in ou most likely. Either that or the tier they ended oras in. They will not start in the tier their base form is in, as mega pokemon are now considered seperate pokemon. It is very unlikely either mega pidgeot or mega beedrill fall to ru any time soon.
 
Just to clear a few things up: afaik, new megas start in OU since they're tiered separately now, so RU won't immediately get Mega Steelix and other megas right off the bat, if at all. It's not really productive to be discussing megas that likely won't come for months in advance, and there's no guarantee that Steelix would drop either way...

Another thing: I know everyone's excited about RU beta, but no one knows when the stats are coming out, so be patient instead of asking about the stats in every other post. Thanks. :heart:
 
With RU beta right around the corner (and the inevitable bans) I figured it would be fun to post my favorite and most consistent team in RU Alpha. I've been in the top 10 range with this for a little while now so I would think it's a pretty good one.
crawdaunt.gif
silvally.gif
tornadus.gif
nidoking.gif
lucario.gif
galvantula.gif

As you could probably tell, this a hyper offensive team based around sticky webs + powerful breakers that can pretty easily overpower your opponent.
galvantula.png
Click Webs. Use Tornadus and Silvally to block/punish your opponent for trying to remove them. This was chosen over Shuckle to get past Espeon btw.
773MS.png
Silvally-Ghost is a great spinblocker with decent coverage and can actually provide set-up opportunities with Parting Shot. You generally always wanna throw this guy against spinners because momentum is everything when playing HO. Another cool thing is that your opponent doesn't know it's type from team preview which is neat.
tornadus.png
Torn punishes defog with Defiant and physically offensive Torn is just an amazing mon in general because of the lack of good flying resists that don't get smacked by its coverage. Tailwind even without prankster is nice for emergencies.
nidoking.png
Amazing breaker under webs and also serves as your rocker.
lucario.png
Ridiculous sweeper under webs, Espeed is a really useful tool.
crawdaunt.png
This "balanced" mon is an absolute nightmare under webs (which is why I run Jolly) and lum allows it to set-up on fat mons, particularly bulky waters.

RUalphatop10.png
Crawdaunt @ Lum Berry
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Crabhammer

Silvally-Ghost @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Parting Shot

Tornadus
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Tailwind

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Extreme Speed

Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Volt Switch
- Bug Buzz
- Thunder
 
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moltres.gif


Anyone thought about Bloom Doom Moltres?

Moltres @
Bag_Grassium_Z_Sprite.png

Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hurricane
- Solar Beam
- Roost
252 SpA Moltres Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 282-334 (92.7 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Moltres Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 690-813 (159.3 - 187.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Moltres Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 1016-1196 (245.4 - 288.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Moltres Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 189-223 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Bloom Doom + Fire Blast Koes)

This generation, you can slap a Grassium Z on any fire type and call it it a day. A mere HP grass barely tickles Diance and Gligar barely even notices, but a 200 base power bloom doom is a completley different story. The specs/LO sets had to u-turn out of its checks and ultimately relies on its teamates to deal with them, but now Moltres can finally become independent of team support.
 
So i been playing some RU here and there and i believe Rock Polish Torterra is a huge underrated threat. Late game when mons are weakened it just obliterates through teams and its STAB combo hits alot of the tier for good damage (Fat mons such as Alo, Blastoise, Doublade , Diancie and some others just to name a few ). Im not saying that Torterra is a top rank mon or anything but against unprepped teams (many ppl dont really expect Torterra to begin with so unprepped teams are pretty common fortunately) Torterra just plows through them and even without a RP up it just punches holes in things. The speed EVs let you outspeed Swellow after an RP then just hit everything with the appropriate move. Also Life Orb Overgrow Wood Hammer is a NUKE, an absolute nuke. So yes while Wood Hammer + Life Orb recoil lessens its lifespan, when you get into Overgrow range even Grass resists are taking a shit ton from Wood Hammer.
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Torterra @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
 
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