They're separate checks. You should probably wait for an actual GP member to give the thumbs up to one of the two before implementing changes.
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Slowking (Analysis)
- Thread starter SJCrew
- Start date
They're separate checks. You should probably wait for an actual GP member to give the thumbs up to one of the two before implementing changes.
Scald can burn Terakion rendering it useless and citing a field condition doesn't make the argument any stronger because I can say "but Scald 2HKOs with Rain."
ToxiCroak is OU? That's news to me. That's not reason enough to put psychic over the much more useful Scald AND Flamethrower. They hit more important shit, point blank. And without Dragon Tail there IS no reason to be using Slowking over Slowbro. Psychic is OO and that is where it belongs. I've never for once used Scald / Flamethrower / Dragon Tail / Slack Off and said "damn, I wish I had Psychic." Remove Flamethrower, and every time Ferrothorn shows its fatass I'll say "Damn, I wish I had Flamethrower." Every time I predict Scizor come in and I scald and it doesn't burn I will think "Damn, I wish I had Flamethrower." Need I say more?
I suggested slashing it Scald and Psychic because that is the only feasible slot for Psychic unless you put it in OO. Then you can get your KO against Terakion and such. But then you will say "Damn, I wish I at least had Scald" when Tyranitar comes in and Pursuit's your ass with no effort. Scald at least makes him think about switching directly into it.
You NEED Scald. You NEED Flamethrower. You don't NEED Psychic. You deal with Conkeldurr fine without it.
The reason I don't care that much about Scizor and Ferrothorn is actually because of Scald. Once they get burned, they're useless. Ferrothorn doesn't even OHKO with Power Whip, so you can try again for a burn and switch out with Regenerator if you really wanted to. Scizor just isn't gonna outlast you regardless. He's an easy to counter Pokemon and you can just switch out of him every time without much problem. Switching directly into Slowking means Scald might burn his dumbass anyway. With hazards up, he gets very few chances to actually threaten Slowking unless he's Swords Dance with Roost. But he's still hard countered by half the metagame, so who cares. Then there's Dragon Tail catching him on the way in, which means more hazards damage.
There's nothing wrong at all with using Psychic over Flamethrower and Slowking is still too dangerous for its counters to actually switch directly in on because of the burn or Dragon Tail + possible hazards. At least it's an option that works in all weather conditions and makes him more effective at checking what he's supposed to. If Celebi had a STAB that burned, I'd run Psychic on that too.
There's nothing wrong at all with using Psychic over Flamethrower and Slowking is still too dangerous for its counters to actually switch directly in on because of the burn or Dragon Tail + possible hazards. At least it's an option that works in all weather conditions and makes him more effective at checking what he's supposed to. If Celebi had a STAB that burned, I'd run Psychic on that too.
Ok SJCrew your clearly not hearing me so I'll say this one more time:
Ferrothorn doesn't give a shit if you burn it because it will STILL set up as many layers of spikes as it wants. Flamethrower means he cannot do that.
Scald is NOT a surefire way to deal with Scizor. If it DOES NOT burn you will get a U-turn to the face all day and every day. Flamethrower just roasts him for a OHKO.
Flamethrower also hits Skarmory and Forretress, two pokemon that will gladly set up spikes all over Slowbro without it. Yeah, you can burn them, but they still will get layers up all day and that is a moot point if there is a cleric or wisher they can still stick around and fuck with you.
There is NO reason Psychic is in anyway more useful than Flamethrower. Anyone else can chime in on this but I thought it is common knowledge. Two of your biggest switch-ins are cleanly and swiftly dealt with and Slowking doesn't sit there like a piece of settup fodder like with Psychic. You DO NOT NEED psychic to deal with Conkeldurr because you are slower and you can Dragon Tail him out infinitely. If you are dead set on using him to counter Conkeldurr he CAN do that with Psychic but unless your entire team is incapable of eliminating a last man Conkeldurr (which I find hard to believe), he will get walled to hell and back by slowking all game.
Ferrothorn doesn't give a shit if you burn it because it will STILL set up as many layers of spikes as it wants. Flamethrower means he cannot do that.
Scald is NOT a surefire way to deal with Scizor. If it DOES NOT burn you will get a U-turn to the face all day and every day. Flamethrower just roasts him for a OHKO.
Flamethrower also hits Skarmory and Forretress, two pokemon that will gladly set up spikes all over Slowbro without it. Yeah, you can burn them, but they still will get layers up all day and that is a moot point if there is a cleric or wisher they can still stick around and fuck with you.
There is NO reason Psychic is in anyway more useful than Flamethrower. Anyone else can chime in on this but I thought it is common knowledge. Two of your biggest switch-ins are cleanly and swiftly dealt with and Slowking doesn't sit there like a piece of settup fodder like with Psychic. You DO NOT NEED psychic to deal with Conkeldurr because you are slower and you can Dragon Tail him out infinitely. If you are dead set on using him to counter Conkeldurr he CAN do that with Psychic but unless your entire team is incapable of eliminating a last man Conkeldurr (which I find hard to believe), he will get walled to hell and back by slowking all game.
Skarmory and Fortress are Spikers you can easily spin against, even more when burned. Ferrothorn is tougher but once burned it isnt a problem too. You're saying spinblocker ? Those 3 one can stil set up their things on another mon and he will stil be there. No spinner ? I doubt someone will use this Slowking set in a team without one (thinking about a VERY offensive one).
SJCrew explained the Scizor problem. And yes im getting in your things
SJCrew explained the Scizor problem. And yes im getting in your things
29.5% - 35.2%
This is how much your Flamethrower does in Rain. An easy three layers. So really, instead of predicting it coming in and using Flamethrower, you're just going to be using Scald and hoping for the burn so that the entire rest of your team can set up on it and possibly win the game. That's a meaty setup opportunity for things Sub/SD Landorus, Balloon SD Terrakion, Sub DD Gyarados (or really, any type of Gyarados). Common theme between those three? They all threaten Ferrothorn and don't care about Spikes.
The same Flamethrower on bulky SD Scizor under Rain: 38.4% - 45.3%, w/Scald: 35.2% - 41.9%
Again, you're not beating that without Scald, which gets the burn and makes it easier for the rest of your team to function.
A few more interesting things you can beat with Psychic instead of Flamethrower:
Breloom (can't OHKO with Seed Bomb)
Sub DD Gyara (who sets up on you otherwise)
Tentacruel (sets up otherwise)
Gengar (can't KO if you're healthy, Scald doesn't do enough)
Mind you, these aren't Pokemon that Slowking is designated specifically to check, these are ones that flat out set up on or beat you unless you're running secondary STAB. Flamethrower is, once again, useless while Rain is up. 90% of my games ended up with me spamming Scald or Dragon Tail You can use it when you need it, that's why it's second slash. But Slowking only gets that much better at doing its job when you use the move that threatens more Pokemon, especially considering what the weather might be while he's in. If you want to beat Scizor and Ferro, just spam Scald. They'll get burned eventually. When they don't, you switch out for free into some real counters and proceed as normal. Neither Pokemon is difficult to deal with in the slightest unless you're running a Hail team (where I'd heavily advise Flamethrower).
This debate is actually giving me a lot more data for my analysis. Keep it coming.
Citing field conditions is a bullshit excuse for an argument. "Flamethrower OHKOs Scizor in sun, sand, and hail" I can just say. WTF come on really? If rain is on YOUR team you wouldn't use Flamethrower obviously, but you have to assume normal conditions when writing analysis otherwise you theoretically shouldn't put a fire move on ANY pokemon (ohh doesn't do enough to Ferrothorn and Scizor in the Rain). Thats flat out garbage. So lets remove Fire Blast off Salamence and Fire Punch off Dragonite because they don't do enough to Skarmory in the rain right? Get a life dude.
Slowking is not a Breloom counter at all, bullshit excuse. Flamethrower hits Breloom fine anyway. If you are using Slowking to counter Breloom, you have serious thought problems. This is an awful argument.
Balloon SD Terakion is ballzy for trying to set up in front of a Scald - bullshit excuse I don't buy it. "Doesn't do enough in Sand!" - Does enough in rain - again another weather argument that I don't buy. Come better.
And I'm not buying your Tentacruel excuse either, because you say "you can just spin hazards away from Ferrothorn / Forry / Skarm" and I can just say you can spin Toxic Spikes away from Tentacruel. Most teams are hurt more by Spikes than Toxic Spikes, hell I have teams that don't care AT ALL about toxic spikes. Look at OU and see how many pokemon are affected by Toxic Spikes vs. how many are mauled by Spikes and get back at me. Your Scizor and Ferrothorn argument? Your making mine stronger about Spikes vs. Toxic Spikes.
I can go on all day. Psychic is usable if YOUR team is running rain, but we assume clear skies in analysis and Flamethrower is flat out better in every aspect.
Saying "Rapid Spin" is a really bad reason for allowing Ferrothorn, Forry, Skarmory to set up infinite Spikes on you, especially when you have a MEANS TO KILL THEM. 2 of your biggest counters, Ferrothorn and Scizor just lose to you with Flamethrower. With Scald your relying on a 30% chance to "cripple" them when you can just easily press the move and kill them. There IS no better argument.
Stop using weather in your arguments please. It is weak. "FireBlast can OHKO Ferrothorn in the Sun." That is basically what you are saying if I use that to counter your argument.
Slowking is not a Breloom counter at all, bullshit excuse. Flamethrower hits Breloom fine anyway. If you are using Slowking to counter Breloom, you have serious thought problems. This is an awful argument.
Balloon SD Terakion is ballzy for trying to set up in front of a Scald - bullshit excuse I don't buy it. "Doesn't do enough in Sand!" - Does enough in rain - again another weather argument that I don't buy. Come better.
And I'm not buying your Tentacruel excuse either, because you say "you can just spin hazards away from Ferrothorn / Forry / Skarm" and I can just say you can spin Toxic Spikes away from Tentacruel. Most teams are hurt more by Spikes than Toxic Spikes, hell I have teams that don't care AT ALL about toxic spikes. Look at OU and see how many pokemon are affected by Toxic Spikes vs. how many are mauled by Spikes and get back at me. Your Scizor and Ferrothorn argument? Your making mine stronger about Spikes vs. Toxic Spikes.
I can go on all day. Psychic is usable if YOUR team is running rain, but we assume clear skies in analysis and Flamethrower is flat out better in every aspect.
Saying "Rapid Spin" is a really bad reason for allowing Ferrothorn, Forry, Skarmory to set up infinite Spikes on you, especially when you have a MEANS TO KILL THEM. 2 of your biggest counters, Ferrothorn and Scizor just lose to you with Flamethrower. With Scald your relying on a 30% chance to "cripple" them when you can just easily press the move and kill them. There IS no better argument.
Stop using weather in your arguments please. It is weak. "FireBlast can OHKO Ferrothorn in the Sun." That is basically what you are saying if I use that to counter your argument.
99% of Rain teams have Ferrothorn on them. 5th gen OU is synonymous with Rain and furthermore, as of this round, Rain stall. If you have to change the weather every time just to use your move, which puts your summoner at risk with passive damage and the attacks it may be switching on, you might as well just be using Scald to get that burn off, which will work even if you have to switch into something without your desired weather effect up (not even counting the fact that it might even be Rain).
Cool, now you just have to give me an example of a Sun team that justify adding Ferrothorn to its ranks instead of Forretress, who has the all-important Rapid Spin that Sun teams need to stay in the game. I have, to this day, not seen a single Ferrothorn on a Sun team. Have you?
Then he'll just set them up again on your Slowking, and you'll have to switch to your Rapid Spinner again, etc. There's no Rapid Spinner that can reliably beat both Ferrothorn and Tentacruel, and it will eventually get worn down between Scald, Leech Seed, and Power Whip. That's how Rain stall works. The only way you'll stop them is if you wear Tenta down and keep him from setting up. With one major part of the defensive core gone, Politoed or Ferro will have to take the burn, which brings you that much closer to winning the game. Especially Ferro because of how brainless it is to set up on while burned, especially on things with Substitute.
In this context, Slowking, who is being set up on by your opponent's Tentacruel while you do nothing to stop it.
Sand teams have Terrakion on them, which you're forced to try and check with Slowking even if your weather is not up. And when I brought up Balloon Terrakion, I was talking about being able to SD on a burned Ferrothorn without taking the OHKO from Power Whip, another reason why you should entrain yourself to Scald almost every free turn you have. What sounds more appealing to you, clicking Scald on Heatran and having it work no matter what it does, or spending the rest of the match flailing with Flamethrower because your opponent scouted your prediction with Protect? You don't have to predict when you use Psychic OR Scald, it's going to beat what it needs to beat no matter what, no switch-ins required.
Flamethrower is not enough to kill. You can punish your opponent for trying to check Slowking with Breloom by going straight for the kill. You have Regenerator too, so there are no downsides to this.
My argument: less Pokemon beat Slowking if it runs Psychic
Your argument: Scizor and Ferrothorn aren't common on Rain teams, wtf, just use Flamethrower
Burning them and switching out is good enough. Even if he doesn't burn, they can't kill him if he switches out, not even Scizor with Pursuit. And from a tactical standpoint, Scizor being burned is actually a lot more useful to me than Scizor being dead when it means I no longer have to fear his U-turns and can just stay in on him and try to burn something else or Dragon Tail the next switch-in. If he's Swords Dance, I can easily bring in something bulky and start setting up or just Dragon Tail if I expect him to get out of dodge. A burned Scizor is good for nothing but setup bait and death fodder, same with Ferrothorn.
Keep in mind these are the only two parts of your argument that even matter, and not so much in conjunction with the fact that you still can't beat them under a common weather condition. Again, Slowking has to switch in and do its job no matter what weather is up. Flamethrower does have utility for those two and those two alone, but Psychic's utility as a secondary STAB is just not up for debate. Thanks for your input, but I know what I'm doing.
I'm not going to sit up here and theorymon about how common Rain + Ferrothorn is because that is irrelevant to what the fuck goes up on an analysis. Weather arguments are stupid. A good portion of teams use weather, meaning you will most likely be using Slowking in your OWN weather, and a good portion of teams do not. In the case that you ARE using your own weather that is not rain, or the case when weather is absent from a match, Flamethrower is just flat out better. And since that is the majority of the time, citing "Rain Stall" is just not a good enough reason to rule out Flamethrower. It is actually straight bullshit.
You can sit up here and make fantasy scenarios all day long but the fact remains that the average player whom which analysis are designed for will get more utility out of Flamethrower than Psychic. The average person is not building a team specifically to defeat Rain stall, but a team to beat the majority of things it faces. And from that standpoint, Flamethrower is just better. Psychic just has limited uses, and you cling to Scald and its success in Rain as if Scald isn't going to be used WITH Flamethrower -_-. Scald / Flamethrower Slowking does the same fucking thing to Ferrothorn that your bitching about in rain as Scald / Psychic. Scald / Flamethrower just can beat Ferrothorn, Scizor, Skarmory, and Forretress outside of more effectively and easily. Psychic's uses are limited to Toxicroak and being a foolproof last resort to Breloom. Hell, Toxicroak isn't even a staple on rain STALL. Ohh, and Tentacruel. If your team does not have anything weak to Toxic Spikes other than Slowking who doesn't exactly care too much either because of Regenerator, why should you care????
No its more like:
My argument: Fewer important pokemon beat Slowking if it runs Flamethrower.
Your argument: Slowking can't check Breloom (who it doesn't even counter) and is set-up bait for Tentacruel.
You can sit up here and make fantasy scenarios all day long but the fact remains that the average player whom which analysis are designed for will get more utility out of Flamethrower than Psychic. The average person is not building a team specifically to defeat Rain stall, but a team to beat the majority of things it faces. And from that standpoint, Flamethrower is just better. Psychic just has limited uses, and you cling to Scald and its success in Rain as if Scald isn't going to be used WITH Flamethrower -_-. Scald / Flamethrower Slowking does the same fucking thing to Ferrothorn that your bitching about in rain as Scald / Psychic. Scald / Flamethrower just can beat Ferrothorn, Scizor, Skarmory, and Forretress outside of more effectively and easily. Psychic's uses are limited to Toxicroak and being a foolproof last resort to Breloom. Hell, Toxicroak isn't even a staple on rain STALL. Ohh, and Tentacruel. If your team does not have anything weak to Toxic Spikes other than Slowking who doesn't exactly care too much either because of Regenerator, why should you care????
No its more like:
My argument: Fewer important pokemon beat Slowking if it runs Flamethrower.
Your argument: Slowking can't check Breloom (who it doesn't even counter) and is set-up bait for Tentacruel.
Pretending weather isn't an important factor in the metagame is like pretending Dragons don't exist in Gen 5 OU or Salamence didn't matter in Gen 4 OU. You can try, but you're going to lose a lot of battles that way. The same as what'll happen if you opt to use Flamethrower and your opponent switches in Sub Croak knowing you don't have Psychic. Besides, I already cover this in the analysis several times.
You can't downplay weather. It's there no matter what you say. You have to factor it into the analysis so that players will know what to expect when they go to use this thing. If you want to use Flamethrower, prepare for it to be useless for most of the match because it can't be used against Scizor unless it switches directly in under non-Rain weather. Most players know that the Slow trio has Flamethrower, and everyone knows they have Scald. Scizor isn't coming in unless it's desperate or it can get an easy Pursuit off. If your opponent really wants to beat Slowking with Scizor, there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop them. That's why it's a counter, and a top of the line one at that.
Replace Tentacruel with Toxicroak and bam, Rain offense. Politoed is probably Specs and there's a Tornadus on there somewhere. Ferrothorn is on Rain-anything and you can't break it regardless.
Flamethrower is, nine times out of ten, not going to beat Ferrothorn or Scizor. You have to predict correctly get Scizor on the switch, who already needs to watch out because of Scald. A revenging Scizor isn't beaten by Slowking no matter what. Ferrothorn can't be beaten in Rain. In Sand, sure, and you can go ahead and use Flamethrower if you're that worried about it. The option is still there and I haven't removed it.
If you stay in for more than two turns, you're losing more than Leftovers can recover, which means less time to stall or check what you need to. Poison also means no Leftovers; this is incredibly important. Why do you think Chansey is not OU despite being physically bulkier than Blissey? No, not Ice Beam, residual damage. Walls taking extra damage is a bonus for the sweepers that try to switch into it. Then things with Protect or SubGliscor, which was made specifically to stall, beat you, no questions asked. Don't sit here and try to tell me that "Toxic Spikes aren't important because of Regnerator"; never, ever let your wall get poisoned. That extra 6-12% is what's going to keep you from switching into CB Terrakion's Close Combat, which you can barely check.
Don't forget Sub DD Gyara (whose subs you can break even at 252 HP), which is becoming increasingly common, and Toxicroak.
I understand what Flamethrower is supposed to be able to do, and under certain conditions, it will do it well. I've already written that in the analysis. However, it's not going to be slashed where you want it to unless you can get QC to support your cause.
Let me also take a part on this discussion gentlemen.
First of all both of you have good and bad points.
And both of you are exaggerating to prove your points.
For me both Psychic and Flamethrower are good enough to guarantee their spots as main moves.
Juts slash them together.
Now let's start with your points.
First of all SJCrew no matter how common rain is, Ferro is seen quite often outside of it,and Flamethrower gets a clean 2hko on it.
Pretty good if you ask me.Also stop denying the usefulness of 2hkoing many other entry hazard layers like Skarmory and Forretress.
While entry hazards can be spun,it is better to not even let them setup in the first place.
Also a fire move is very vital for Slowking to stop one of his biggest enemies,Scizor.
A 30% chance of burn is not enough to stop Scizor from abusing you.
I don't want every time i bring Slowking in,to give a free turn of a CB U-Turn AND momentum to Scizor.
Or mind you it can even go for Pursuit and maul you on the switch.
Flamethrower is definitely very viable if only for Scizor and it ohkoes all but the rare S.Def variant.
Also some of your examples are rather poor like Slowking needing Psychic to kill Brelloom.
A.Brelloom dies anyway from Flamethrower and
B.Which sane person would leave his Slwoking against a Brelloom?
Also you say that Psychic is needed to deal with Terakion better which might chose to setup on you.
And i ask you,is this a common situation that could happen?
For someone to let Terakion to setup on something that can potentially render it useless(with the burn)he must be in a really tight situation to take this risk.
While i understand that Psychic has a chance to 2hko even under SS,while Scald does not,Scald will always be the better option.
Because one hit is all you going to get against Tera.
He needs 1 turn to setup and 1 turn to kill you,so how the hell are you going to find the time to 2hko him with Psychic?
It is much better to use Scald hoping for the burn.
And anyways all these are things that would happen in the unusual scenario that someone would want to setup with Terakion against a Slowking,which is as i said again unlikely.
Now let's go to RaikouLover.
While you made valid points you must recognize that SJCrew made some also.
Without Psychic you have troubles against SubDos,Toxicroak,Gengar,Tentacruel,Mienshao and some more.
It finally come down to what your team has troubles with but for me both options should be slashed on the main set.
Anyway very good job SJ Crew with this analysis,everything is looking very good but i have something to ask:
I get the meaning of the S.Def evs on the defensive NP set,but what is the purpose of the Def evs?
I remember that you stated somewhere that Slowking survives a Leaf Blade from Virizion and Ohkoes back at +2.
I also remeber that you said that at +2 Slowking has a very good chance to KO Celebi with Ice Beam.
So i am asking why not move a little bit of the Def evs into S.Atck to ensure the KO on Celebi at +2 while still keeping enough Defense to survive one Leaf Blade from Virizion.
Is this possible?
First of all both of you have good and bad points.
And both of you are exaggerating to prove your points.
For me both Psychic and Flamethrower are good enough to guarantee their spots as main moves.
Juts slash them together.
Now let's start with your points.
First of all SJCrew no matter how common rain is, Ferro is seen quite often outside of it,and Flamethrower gets a clean 2hko on it.
Pretty good if you ask me.Also stop denying the usefulness of 2hkoing many other entry hazard layers like Skarmory and Forretress.
While entry hazards can be spun,it is better to not even let them setup in the first place.
Also a fire move is very vital for Slowking to stop one of his biggest enemies,Scizor.
A 30% chance of burn is not enough to stop Scizor from abusing you.
I don't want every time i bring Slowking in,to give a free turn of a CB U-Turn AND momentum to Scizor.
Or mind you it can even go for Pursuit and maul you on the switch.
Flamethrower is definitely very viable if only for Scizor and it ohkoes all but the rare S.Def variant.
Also some of your examples are rather poor like Slowking needing Psychic to kill Brelloom.
A.Brelloom dies anyway from Flamethrower and
B.Which sane person would leave his Slwoking against a Brelloom?
Also you say that Psychic is needed to deal with Terakion better which might chose to setup on you.
And i ask you,is this a common situation that could happen?
For someone to let Terakion to setup on something that can potentially render it useless(with the burn)he must be in a really tight situation to take this risk.
While i understand that Psychic has a chance to 2hko even under SS,while Scald does not,Scald will always be the better option.
Because one hit is all you going to get against Tera.
He needs 1 turn to setup and 1 turn to kill you,so how the hell are you going to find the time to 2hko him with Psychic?
It is much better to use Scald hoping for the burn.
And anyways all these are things that would happen in the unusual scenario that someone would want to setup with Terakion against a Slowking,which is as i said again unlikely.
Now let's go to RaikouLover.
While you made valid points you must recognize that SJCrew made some also.
Without Psychic you have troubles against SubDos,Toxicroak,Gengar,Tentacruel,Mienshao and some more.
It finally come down to what your team has troubles with but for me both options should be slashed on the main set.
Anyway very good job SJ Crew with this analysis,everything is looking very good but i have something to ask:
I get the meaning of the S.Def evs on the defensive NP set,but what is the purpose of the Def evs?
I remember that you stated somewhere that Slowking survives a Leaf Blade from Virizion and Ohkoes back at +2.
I also remeber that you said that at +2 Slowking has a very good chance to KO Celebi with Ice Beam.
So i am asking why not move a little bit of the Def evs into S.Atck to ensure the KO on Celebi at +2 while still keeping enough Defense to survive one Leaf Blade from Virizion.
Is this possible?
Seeing how this only has 1 GP check, I might as well try my hand at an amateur one.
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[Overview]
<p>Slowking has an interesting niche as a mixed tank in the BW OU metagame, but it often falls short of a place on many teams for a few good reasons. For starters, its mediocre Defense, abysmal Speed, and Pursuit weakness make its life extremely uncomfortable in a tier where some of the most dominant physical powerhouses, namely Tyranitar and Scizor, can prey on these attributes. It also faces direct competition from its physically defensive cousin Slowbro, who is often preferred for its ability to counter many of the game's powerful Fighting-types.</p>
<p>Fans of the king may rejoice, however, for as what it lacks in raw defensive capability, it makes up for in can be made up for by its general utility. With Nasty Plot, Slowking establishes itself as a very competent sweeping aid, and even a veritable threat all its own itself under Trick Room. Its solid Special Defense also makes it a valuable candidate for absorbing a stray Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor, without fear of being worn down over the course of a match due to its extremely useful ability, Regenerator. While it may not find a home on many conventional teams, the eccentric but effective nature of the king's abilities earn it a silent spot in the populous OU metagame.</p>
[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Psychic / Flamethrower
move 3: Dragon Tail
move 4: Slack Off
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>In a metagame where auto-weather is dominant, Slowking's defensive prowess is a blessing. Its Water and Fire resistances work in tandem with Regenerator, allowing it to switch in on the common weather starters Ninetales and Politoed without fear of being worn down. The Water resistance is particularly crucial here as Politoed is by far the more common of the two. Infernape, another problematic Pokemon for many teams, is also countered consummately; factoring in Leftovers recovery, even a Nasty Plot-boosted Grass Knot does not 2HKO Slowking. Be on the lookout for U-turn though, since it allows Infernape a free shot and an instant ticket out of the match-up, which could spell doom for Slowking if Infernape is paired with a Pursuit user.</p>
<p>As a mixed wall, Slowking carries a great burden on its shoulders, as it is expected to switch in on a wide range of potent physical and special attackers to scare them off. Its important Fighting resistance, along with a glaring Pursuit weakness and modest Defense stat, means Slowking can't invest as much in its Special Defense as it might like to. The current EV spread compromises this by giving it enough Special Defense to switch in on a Specs Politoed's Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and recover the damage, while at the same time letting it wall powerful STAB Fighting-type attacks from the likes of Conkeldurr and Choice Banded Terrakion. It may not always be safe for the king to switch in, though; Terrakion's X-Scissor or Stone Edge will wreck Slowking, and a Conkeldurr at +1 will easily win the match-up.</p>
<p>Scald is the STAB attack of choice for its burn rate, which helps ward off potential counters like Tyranitar. Psychic is also a very important move for Slowking, giving it a chance to counter Fighting-types such as Machamp, Conkeldurr, and Toxicroak, and preventing; it also prevents the common Tentacruel from setting up Toxic Spikes without fear, whereas. Flamethrower would mainly be used to combat Scizor, Ferrothorn, and other Grass-types trying to switch in. Dragon Tail lets Slowking force out anything it can't beat immediately, and phazing set-up Pokemon like Reuniclus or Latias in a clutch situation.</p>
[Additional Comments]
<p>More than anything else, Slowking appreciates bulky partners to take care of the threats it can't handle. For example, it is absolutely useless in the face of a Calm Mind Latias with Substitute, since Dragon Tail doesn't deal enough damage to break its Substitutes. Ironically, its greatest nemeses, Scizor and Tyranitar, come in handy here, since they're two of the best Latias counters; in return, Slowking can shield them from incoming Fire- or Fighting-type attacks. In this regard, Slowking is also an ideal partner for Ferrothorn, as it walls both of Ferrothorn's weaknesses with impunity. This is a one-sided partnership, however, since Ferrothorn won't be of any help in countering the likes of Celebi and Raikou, despite resisting their main STAB moves. Enemy bulky Water-types, especially those carrying Water-immune abilities, will hate taking a Toxic, as it hinders their longevity. This applies especially to Gastrodon, Vaporeon, and Jellicent, which otherwise wall Slowking perpetually.</p>
<p>Hail teams benefit heavily from its ability to switch in to Politoed and Ninetales, not to mention the exceedingly dangerous Infernape. Slowking can also be used alongside a defensive core of Skarmory and Blissey in order to alleviate its weakness to Infernape and other mixed attackers. Ice Beam can be used to check the likes of Dragonite and Salamence, while Yawn more or less functions in the same way Dragon Tail does, but is limited by Sleep Clause and status-immune targets.</p>
[SET]
name: Defensive Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Scald
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast / Slack Off
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>As mentioned previously, there isn't a whole lot in the standard metagame that Slowking can do better than Slowbro. Thankfully, this set utilizes one of Slowking's greatest selling points over its cousin: Nasty Plot. Unlike Calm Mind, this move allows Slowking to boost its Special Attack to dangerous levels twice as quickly, enabling it to use its respectable defenses to survive powerful hits from sweepers and KO in return, or to overcome walls that would attempt to impede its progress. Zapdos, for example, cannot OHKO with Thunder unless it has a Life Orb, nor can it KO with a Life Orb Thunderbolt, and will receive heavy retaliation from any one of Slowking's boosted attacks. Nasty Plot Celebi also has trouble dealing with Slowking, as a +2 Ice Beam or Fire Blast will OHKO with some prior damage, while an unboosted Giga Drain barely takes cannot even take away half Slowking's HP. Even Swords Dance Virizion, which targets Slowbro's weaker Defense stat, fails to OHKO with Leaf Blade, and is can be easily OHKOed in return by Psyshock.
<p>Defensive Pokemon have an especially hard time stopping Slowking, since they lack the means to KO it right away. +2 Psyshock handily 2HKOs Blissey, while defensive Celebi is slain by a boosted Ice Beam or Fire Blast. Ferrothorn, however, can survive a boosted attack in Rain and deal heavy damage with Power Whip. Regenerator is also key to this set's effectiveness: while Slowking may not be able to sweep an entire team in one sitting, Regenerator gives it multiple chances to switch in and set up by recovering 33% of its health as it switches. </p>
[Additional Comments]
<p>This type of Slowking is at its best in Rain, but for different reasons than one might expect: Slowking and Politoed share many of the same enemies, whom Slowking can effectively lure out and defeat. The boost provided by Rain also helps Slowking plow through bulky offensive Pokemon such as Reuniclus, which can otherwise stall Slowking out with consecutive Calm Minds. Focus Blast is an alternative coverage option to deal more damage to both Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, but an untimely miss will be the end of the king.</p>
<p>The EVs on this set are only slightly different from its standard tank set: a slight increase in SpD EVs allows Slowking to survive more special attacks while maintaining most of its physical survivability durability.</p>
[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Surf
move 3: Focus Blast / Fire Blast
move 4: Nasty Plot / Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
ability: Regenerator
nature: Quiet
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Slowking is no slouch as a Trick Room sweeper, and once again comparable to Slowbro in all but the move Nasty Plot and comparable to Slowbro in all regards besides access to the move Nasty Plot. Rather than absorbing blows and striking back with even greater force, this type of Slowking gets the jump on its opponents by turning their speed against them and promptly proceeds to KO all in its path with its boosted moves. Unlike Slowking's other sets, an all-out Trick Room sweeper requires the higher base power of Surf. Its other moveslots are dedicated to coverage: Fire Blast secures a guaranteed OHKO on even the bulkiest of Ferrothorn and Scizor in neutral weather, whereas Focus Blast hits Tyranitar, who often invests heavily in Special Defense to shrug off all but the most powerful Surfs in OU. It also retains coverage against Ferrothorn even if Fire Blast is not being used. Slowking may struggle to find two turns to both set up Trick Room and Nasty Plot for a sweep; if so, Ice Beam can use used instead for coverage against Dragons.</p>
[Additional Comments]
<p>Though decent as a standalone, the support this type of Slowking offers for Trick Room teams is a very crucial element in the way it plays. Its typing, bulk, and a very useful ability in Regenerator allow it many switch-ins, and a dedicated Trick Room team would really appreciate the lingering field effect. In addition to supporting its team with Trick Room, Slowking also has the option of running a more defensive build to stay in the game longer and cover its teammates' weaknesses more effectively; in this case, the standard tank spread would be desired, with a Sassy nature, 0 Speed IVs, and Slack Off replacing Nasty Plot. </p>
[Other Options]
<p>Slowking can run an effective Choice Specs set, but is hampered by Trick being incompatible with Regenerator. Calm Mind sets are entirely outclassed by Slowbro, who has a much higher base Defense to work with. Thunder Wave is an inferior option on sets that employ the use of Scald, since it denies Slowking the chance to burn some of its common physical enemies. Grass Knot is only useful in defeating Gastrodon, as Swampert and Quagsire lacking Water Absorb already take a decent amount of damage from a Rain-boosted Scald, with an additional burn chance.</p>
[Checks and Counters]
<p>Unless burned switching in, Tyranitar wreaks havoc on all Slowking sets. Defensive variants 2HKO the king effortlessly with Crunch as a +2 Scald barely dents Tyranitar, and Choice Band variants can trap king with Pursuit. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is also a good counter, but its Crunch is weaker and does not OHKO, and ;without HP investment, a boosted Scald can take it out after Stealth Rock damage. Scrafty can also switch in on Slowking and boost without fear unless Rain is active, in which case it risks being KOed by a +2 Scald. Scizor and the less common Escavalier are also forerunners among Slowking counters. Like Tyranitar, their Choice Band sets can trap it with Pursuit, while Scizor's U-turn can OHKO or steal momentum as it switches out. However, both fear Scald's burn chance in addition to the threat of Flamethrower or Fire Blast.</p>
<p>Slowking's Defense is much weaker than its Special Defense, so it generally has more problems dealing with physical powerhouses. Choice Band Haxorus, for instance, can KO it with Outrage after Stealth Rock damage. Ferrothorn can also dent it severely with Power Whip, or set up entry hazards if it isn't packing a Fire-type move. Electric- and Grass-types, such as Virizion and Zapdos, also make good checks to Slowking if it's not at full health or hasn't isn't boosted. Keep an eye especially on Rotom-W and Celebi, as both are very common in standard play, with; the latter using Slowking as a free setup opportunity should it lack Ice Beam or Fire Blast. Hydregion can also threaten Slowking with Dark Pulse.</p>
<p>Slowking has an interesting niche as a mixed tank in the BW OU metagame, but it often falls short of a place on many teams for a few good reasons. For starters, its mediocre Defense, abysmal Speed, and Pursuit weakness make its life extremely uncomfortable in a tier where some of the most dominant physical powerhouses, namely Tyranitar and Scizor, can prey on these attributes. It also faces direct competition from its physically defensive cousin Slowbro, who is often preferred for its ability to counter many of the game's powerful Fighting-types.</p>
<p>Fans of the king may rejoice, however, for as what it lacks in raw defensive capability, it makes up for in can be made up for by its general utility. With Nasty Plot, Slowking establishes itself as a very competent sweeping aid, and even a veritable threat all its own itself under Trick Room. Its solid Special Defense also makes it a valuable candidate for absorbing a stray Hydro Pump or Draco Meteor, without fear of being worn down over the course of a match due to its extremely useful ability, Regenerator. While it may not find a home on many conventional teams, the eccentric but effective nature of the king's abilities earn it a silent spot in the populous OU metagame.</p>
[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Scald
move 2: Psychic / Flamethrower
move 3: Dragon Tail
move 4: Slack Off
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>In a metagame where auto-weather is dominant, Slowking's defensive prowess is a blessing. Its Water and Fire resistances work in tandem with Regenerator, allowing it to switch in on the common weather starters Ninetales and Politoed without fear of being worn down. The Water resistance is particularly crucial here as Politoed is by far the more common of the two. Infernape, another problematic Pokemon for many teams, is also countered consummately; factoring in Leftovers recovery, even a Nasty Plot-boosted Grass Knot does not 2HKO Slowking. Be on the lookout for U-turn though, since it allows Infernape a free shot and an instant ticket out of the match-up, which could spell doom for Slowking if Infernape is paired with a Pursuit user.</p>
<p>As a mixed wall, Slowking carries a great burden on its shoulders, as it is expected to switch in on a wide range of potent physical and special attackers to scare them off. Its important Fighting resistance, along with a glaring Pursuit weakness and modest Defense stat, means Slowking can't invest as much in its Special Defense as it might like to. The current EV spread compromises this by giving it enough Special Defense to switch in on a Specs Politoed's Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and recover the damage, while at the same time letting it wall powerful STAB Fighting-type attacks from the likes of Conkeldurr and Choice Banded Terrakion. It may not always be safe for the king to switch in, though; Terrakion's X-Scissor or Stone Edge will wreck Slowking, and a Conkeldurr at +1 will easily win the match-up.</p>
<p>Scald is the STAB attack of choice for its burn rate, which helps ward off potential counters like Tyranitar. Psychic is also a very important move for Slowking, giving it a chance to counter Fighting-types such as Machamp, Conkeldurr, and Toxicroak, and preventing; it also prevents the common Tentacruel from setting up Toxic Spikes without fear, whereas. Flamethrower would mainly be used to combat Scizor, Ferrothorn, and other Grass-types trying to switch in. Dragon Tail lets Slowking force out anything it can't beat immediately, and phazing set-up Pokemon like Reuniclus or Latias in a clutch situation.</p>
[Additional Comments]
<p>More than anything else, Slowking appreciates bulky partners to take care of the threats it can't handle. For example, it is absolutely useless in the face of a Calm Mind Latias with Substitute, since Dragon Tail doesn't deal enough damage to break its Substitutes. Ironically, its greatest nemeses, Scizor and Tyranitar, come in handy here, since they're two of the best Latias counters; in return, Slowking can shield them from incoming Fire- or Fighting-type attacks. In this regard, Slowking is also an ideal partner for Ferrothorn, as it walls both of Ferrothorn's weaknesses with impunity. This is a one-sided partnership, however, since Ferrothorn won't be of any help in countering the likes of Celebi and Raikou, despite resisting their main STAB moves. Enemy bulky Water-types, especially those carrying Water-immune abilities, will hate taking a Toxic, as it hinders their longevity. This applies especially to Gastrodon, Vaporeon, and Jellicent, which otherwise wall Slowking perpetually.</p>
<p>Hail teams benefit heavily from its ability to switch in to Politoed and Ninetales, not to mention the exceedingly dangerous Infernape. Slowking can also be used alongside a defensive core of Skarmory and Blissey in order to alleviate its weakness to Infernape and other mixed attackers. Ice Beam can be used to check the likes of Dragonite and Salamence, while Yawn more or less functions in the same way Dragon Tail does, but is limited by Sleep Clause and status-immune targets.</p>
[SET]
name: Defensive Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Scald
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast / Slack Off
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>As mentioned previously, there isn't a whole lot in the standard metagame that Slowking can do better than Slowbro. Thankfully, this set utilizes one of Slowking's greatest selling points over its cousin: Nasty Plot. Unlike Calm Mind, this move allows Slowking to boost its Special Attack to dangerous levels twice as quickly, enabling it to use its respectable defenses to survive powerful hits from sweepers and KO in return, or to overcome walls that would attempt to impede its progress. Zapdos, for example, cannot OHKO with Thunder unless it has a Life Orb, nor can it KO with a Life Orb Thunderbolt, and will receive heavy retaliation from any one of Slowking's boosted attacks. Nasty Plot Celebi also has trouble dealing with Slowking, as a +2 Ice Beam or Fire Blast will OHKO with some prior damage, while an unboosted Giga Drain barely takes cannot even take away half Slowking's HP. Even Swords Dance Virizion, which targets Slowbro's weaker Defense stat, fails to OHKO with Leaf Blade, and is can be easily OHKOed in return by Psyshock.
<p>Defensive Pokemon have an especially hard time stopping Slowking, since they lack the means to KO it right away. +2 Psyshock handily 2HKOs Blissey, while defensive Celebi is slain by a boosted Ice Beam or Fire Blast. Ferrothorn, however, can survive a boosted attack in Rain and deal heavy damage with Power Whip. Regenerator is also key to this set's effectiveness: while Slowking may not be able to sweep an entire team in one sitting, Regenerator gives it multiple chances to switch in and set up by recovering 33% of its health as it switches. </p>
[Additional Comments]
<p>This type of Slowking is at its best in Rain, but for different reasons than one might expect: Slowking and Politoed share many of the same enemies, whom Slowking can effectively lure out and defeat. The boost provided by Rain also helps Slowking plow through bulky offensive Pokemon such as Reuniclus, which can otherwise stall Slowking out with consecutive Calm Minds. Focus Blast is an alternative coverage option to deal more damage to both Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, but an untimely miss will be the end of the king.</p>
<p>The EVs on this set are only slightly different from its standard tank set: a slight increase in SpD EVs allows Slowking to survive more special attacks while maintaining most of its physical survivability durability.</p>
[SET]
name: Trick Room
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Surf
move 3: Focus Blast / Fire Blast
move 4: Nasty Plot / Ice Beam
item: Life Orb
ability: Regenerator
nature: Quiet
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Slowking is no slouch as a Trick Room sweeper, and once again comparable to Slowbro in all but the move Nasty Plot and comparable to Slowbro in all regards besides access to the move Nasty Plot. Rather than absorbing blows and striking back with even greater force, this type of Slowking gets the jump on its opponents by turning their speed against them and promptly proceeds to KO all in its path with its boosted moves. Unlike Slowking's other sets, an all-out Trick Room sweeper requires the higher base power of Surf. Its other moveslots are dedicated to coverage: Fire Blast secures a guaranteed OHKO on even the bulkiest of Ferrothorn and Scizor in neutral weather, whereas Focus Blast hits Tyranitar, who often invests heavily in Special Defense to shrug off all but the most powerful Surfs in OU. It also retains coverage against Ferrothorn even if Fire Blast is not being used. Slowking may struggle to find two turns to both set up Trick Room and Nasty Plot for a sweep; if so, Ice Beam can use used instead for coverage against Dragons.</p>
[Additional Comments]
<p>Though decent as a standalone, the support this type of Slowking offers for Trick Room teams is a very crucial element in the way it plays. Its typing, bulk, and a very useful ability in Regenerator allow it many switch-ins, and a dedicated Trick Room team would really appreciate the lingering field effect. In addition to supporting its team with Trick Room, Slowking also has the option of running a more defensive build to stay in the game longer and cover its teammates' weaknesses more effectively; in this case, the standard tank spread would be desired, with a Sassy nature, 0 Speed IVs, and Slack Off replacing Nasty Plot. </p>
[Other Options]
<p>Slowking can run an effective Choice Specs set, but is hampered by Trick being incompatible with Regenerator. Calm Mind sets are entirely outclassed by Slowbro, who has a much higher base Defense to work with. Thunder Wave is an inferior option on sets that employ the use of Scald, since it denies Slowking the chance to burn some of its common physical enemies. Grass Knot is only useful in defeating Gastrodon, as Swampert and Quagsire lacking Water Absorb already take a decent amount of damage from a Rain-boosted Scald, with an additional burn chance.</p>
[Checks and Counters]
<p>Unless burned switching in, Tyranitar wreaks havoc on all Slowking sets. Defensive variants 2HKO the king effortlessly with Crunch as a +2 Scald barely dents Tyranitar, and Choice Band variants can trap king with Pursuit. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is also a good counter, but its Crunch is weaker and does not OHKO, and ;without HP investment, a boosted Scald can take it out after Stealth Rock damage. Scrafty can also switch in on Slowking and boost without fear unless Rain is active, in which case it risks being KOed by a +2 Scald. Scizor and the less common Escavalier are also forerunners among Slowking counters. Like Tyranitar, their Choice Band sets can trap it with Pursuit, while Scizor's U-turn can OHKO or steal momentum as it switches out. However, both fear Scald's burn chance in addition to the threat of Flamethrower or Fire Blast.</p>
<p>Slowking's Defense is much weaker than its Special Defense, so it generally has more problems dealing with physical powerhouses. Choice Band Haxorus, for instance, can KO it with Outrage after Stealth Rock damage. Ferrothorn can also dent it severely with Power Whip, or set up entry hazards if it isn't packing a Fire-type move. Electric- and Grass-types, such as Virizion and Zapdos, also make good checks to Slowking if it's not at full health or hasn't isn't boosted. Keep an eye especially on Rotom-W and Celebi, as both are very common in standard play, with; the latter using Slowking as a free setup opportunity should it lack Ice Beam or Fire Blast. Hydregion can also threaten Slowking with Dark Pulse.</p>
I think it's odd that the two defensive sets have such similar but different EV spreads, the Tank spread is essentially the same as the Nasty Plot spread except it is guaranteed to live two Banded CC's from Terk. Is there a specific reason they are different besides how well the NP spread worked the first time you used it?
